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Real Poll about this "Limited Craft Bag" idea.
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@Hazurko_RaShan This one thinks that comparing The Bank Space, Housing Space and Transmat Crystal Space is ludicrous. It's like comparing a Khajiit to an Argonian.The craft bag is Infinite and nowhere near the other comparisons.
The amount that you want is useless. It will be used up in 1 hour. Then people will be coming to JusticeToJilarga complaining that they get hardly any craft bag space. Then what do you get then? A system that devalues ESO+ that Isn't even good for the people that are supposed to "Benefit" from it.
This one must state that the craft bag like it or not is a Major Part of the Plus Subscription. This one must also point out that people have dealt with crafting materials without the need for a craft bag even before The Craft Bag or even Housing. That makes it easier to store crafting materials.
Like this one said while ESO Plus is a large part of the Subscription there are other reasons to subscribe. The Monthly crown allotment. Double bank space. Double Furnishings. And most important All DLC.
The only good argument that anyone has given on this was @Devanear.The best option for me would be the craft bag for a limited time for new players. For example, offer the craft bag for one month.
At the very start players have a minimum of character and bank space, upgrades cost gold, that new players don't have, and training the mount takes time. A new player can't also be expected to rely on their housing storage, not to mention managing the inventory between alts instead of playing the game they are just starting to play.
I also think it's not "best practise" to ask people to pay to play and then asking for more money right away, before they even have a chance to play the game and decide if it's for them or not.
So let new players play for a bit without the burden of managing the inventory, give them time to get the gold they need to buy the upgrades and the time they need to upgrade their mount, at least a little, and then take the training wheels off
While this one agrees with the opinion. JusticeForJilarga knows that some people who have ESO+ might disagree and they have the right to.Leader Of The Children Of Razum Dar Guild (Khajiit Guild) on All 6 MegaServers
Khajiit Quote Of The Day.
"These useless senche could only kill a rat if they fell upon it. From a great height."1 -
While writing the previous post This one has come up with a way better system. Then the one being proposed. This one would like people's opinions who are against the current plan.
Give everyone the Full Crafting Bag BUT people who aren't subbed have to go to a Bank or a special building to Deposit or retrieve the Materials. Also they don't show up while crafting.
While this one doesn't think that ANY form of the craft bag should be given out for free. This is a compromise that JusticeForJilarga is willing to make. The question is do you agree?Leader Of The Children Of Razum Dar Guild (Khajiit Guild) on All 6 MegaServers
Khajiit Quote Of The Day.
"These useless senche could only kill a rat if they fell upon it. From a great height."1 -
AbysmalGhul✭✭✭✭✭
✭Kahjiit speak is the equivalent of sports superstars speaking about themselves in the 3rd person. So hard to take you serious.2 -
AbysmalGhul wrote: »Kahjiit speak is the equivalent of sports superstars speaking about themselves in the 3rd person. So hard to take you serious.
This one disagrees.Leader Of The Children Of Razum Dar Guild (Khajiit Guild) on All 6 MegaServers
Khajiit Quote Of The Day.
"These useless senche could only kill a rat if they fell upon it. From a great height."2 -
AWinterWolf✭✭✭✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......JusticeForJilarga wrote: »While writing the previous post This one has come up with a way better system. Then the one being proposed. This one would like people's opinions who are against the current plan.
Give everyone the Full Crafting Bag BUT people who aren't subbed have to go to a Bank or a special building to Deposit or retrieve the Materials. Also they don't show up while crafting.
While this one doesn't think that ANY form of the craft bag should be given out for free. This is a compromise that JusticeForJilarga is willing to make. The question is do you agree?
Anyone with assistants will still have a portable craft bag, so no, I don't agree.@AWinterWolf, PC EU.
Main character: Healer, CP 1300+,
Completed:
vSS (Ice & Fire HM)
vMoL Trifecta
TTT
vKA HMs
vBRP
All Dungeon Trifectas.
Favourite quote:
History is a story written by the victors, who often paint themselves the best of lights.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......LOL. The results being so one sided clearly show most of us understand the business reasons behind Zos' decision.
What I find odd is that there are people who feel that those who do not subscribe, hence pay less to play the game, should have access to any version of the crafting bag. They clearly see the great benefit of the crafting bag yet do not want to pay extra to play the game so they can get it.5 -
Orjix✭✭✭✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......don't sub and i never will, i just don't see the point of this though. why is it needed?
S/he's asking if you would like a limited capacity crafting bag, to hold your mats, without subbing.
As opposed to the unlimited one you can only get with ESO+.
If you don't see the point, I assume you don't gather much, or craft?
sorry but i still don't see the point. yes, i don't do a ton of crafting/ gathering but i think i do enough to know a little bit, and i cant figure out why you would want this limited bag. do you only plan on storing 20 of one item type? because if it's about not having enough inventory/bank space then this still doesn't help. you're gonna want to have more that 20 of the same type of item so you are still going to have to hold them outside of the craft bag. now if it was limited by slots and not by count then i could see the point, but unless im misunderstanding this completely it just isn't an effective tool. IDK that's just idiot me talking0 -
chuckythexii✭✭Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »1. the assertion that the proposed craft bag of 20 items each for non eso + subscribers somehow devalues the eso + subscribers is false, misleading and based on conjecture.
the bank space that non eso + subscribers in no way devalues the double bank space that eso + subscribers receive. Also the housing space that non eso+ subscribers receive in no way devalues the double housing space that eso+ subscribers receive. Finally the transmute crystal space that non eso+ subscribers receive in no way devalues the double currency space for transmute crystals that eso+ subscribers receive. If anything the adding of a small craft bag space of a single stack of 20 count for each craft of item would like increase the value of the eso+ subscription and improve the quality of the game for non eso+ subscribers. And really, not allowing some small craft bag for people who cant subscribe to eso+ is just plain stingy.
If OP is going to make an assertion that a small craftbag space would devalue the eso+ subscribers then a. he would have to argue that the housing space, bank space and transmute crystal space also do the same and b. he would have to back up that argument with actual facts. OP has done none of those things.
2. Who is the OP to judge that someone is or isnt a serious player based on their eso+ subscription. His doubts are not facts but the exact opposite of a fact. Al;so why does it need to change the game only for people OP considers serious. How is that a criteria anyone must meet?
3. If OP believes there are plenty of other storage option then why isn't OP not subbing to eso+ and playing with only those other storage options themselves? they could easily save themselves 15$ us a month. In fact i challenge the op to buy a new account, delete their old account, and play without subbing to eso+ using all those other storage options only..
Just look at all the things an eso+ sub gets a person. The popular assertion that the craftbag is the only thing of value in an eso+ sub is so far from the truth it isnt even funny.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/esoplus
Every other storage option for eso+ subscribers has a smaller amount available for non eso+ subscribers except for the craftbag. That's what's unfair as well as stingy.
A small craftbag space would be valuabe to non eso+ subscribers, in no way devalues the eso+ subscription, and is more consistent with the other storage options in eso that allow some space for non eso+ subscribers and a much larger space for eso + subscribers.
All arguments to the contrary seem to operate from a zero-sum game. There is no evidence to supprt a zero-sum game, such as the OP suggests. And the OP offers none.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum_game
In game theory and economic theory, a zero-sum game is a mathematical representation of a situation in which each participant's gain or loss of utility is exactly balanced by the losses or gains of the utility of the other participants. If the total gains of the participants are added up and the total losses are subtracted, they will sum to zero. Thus, cutting a cake, where taking a larger piece reduces the amount of cake available for others, is a zero-sum game if all participants value each unit of cake equally (see marginal utility).
In contrast, non-zero-sum describes a situation in which the interacting parties' aggregate gains and losses can be less than or more than zero. A zero-sum game is also called a strictly competitive game while non-zero-sum games can be either competitive or non-competitive. Zero-sum games are most often solved with the minimax theorem which is closely related to linear programming duality,[1] or with Nash equilibrium.
And Finally, i am in fact an eso+ subscriber and have no intention of quitting my sub. I like selling those crowns in game for in game gold, i also appreciate having access to all the dlc, as well as the other bouses to gold, exp, dying costumes, etc.
Addendum: I have 1700 crowns for sale also if you have a need.
So you are wrong because there is a finite amount of value in the system, therefore it is in fact zero-sum. For example crafting materials such as cornflower are basically commodities and the vast majority of these commodities are held by ESO+ members that have unlimited space for storage. Introducing craft bags for others even in a limited form will increase the availability of these commodities and it will de-value the stocks held by players now.
Now the non-zero sum does come into play since if all commodities prices drop everyone will feel the benefits due to cheaper goods, however this is only in the aggregate. Individuals that use farming and trading of commodities as a major source of income will be inordinately more affected by such a change, and since ESO+ members are probably over-represented they would be most hard hit.
All that said I don't think that something like a limited craft bag would have an appreciable effect on commodities prices, however on the other extreme a total free craft bag for everyone would crash prices immediately.
BTW I played EVE for quite a while so I know how even minor changes to resource availability can have a massive impact on markets.0 -
Tommy_The_Gun✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes Justice for Jilarga. there should be a "Limited Craft Bag" because......"Introduce a problem and then sell a solution for it."
With inventory management being a problem and Craft Bag being a paid solution. Imagine if you have to for example had to idk. pay monthly subscription to microsoft just to be able to change wallpaper...
I understand that game has to make money, but forcing ppl to use subscription model will never work, as those people for example simply dont find that model attractive for them. There are simply people out there who for whatever reason (personal preferences etc.) prefer to pay upfront.
That is why imho there should be alternatives to craft bag. Maybe not as good. Maybe not for free. But ZOS, could at least give us option. Bank space is 240 when maxed. It has not been touched since 2014, when game originally launched.
How about just allowing people to upgrade bank further than 240 for crowns ? It is a win-win situation.
Edited by Tommy_The_Gun on August 22, 2019 4:43PM0 -
Hazurko_RaShan✭✭✭Yes Justice for Jilarga. there should be a "Limited Craft Bag" because......Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »"Introduce a problem and then sell a solution for it."
With inventory management being a problem and Craft Bag being a paid solution. Imagine if you have to for example had to idk. pay monthly subscription to microsoft just to be able to change wallpaper...
I understand that game has to make money, but forcing ppl to use subscription model will never work, as those people for example simply dont find that model attractive for them. There are simply people out there who for whatever reason (personal preferences etc.) prefer to pay upfront.
That is why imho there should be alternatives to craft bag. Maybe not as good. Maybe not for free. But ZOS, could at least give us option. Bank space is 240 when maxed. It has not been touched since 2014, when game originally launched.
How about just allowing people to upgrade bank further than 240 for crowns ? It is a win-win situation.
a bank upgrade of any size costs 1000 crowns.0 -
Sturmfaenger✭✭✭✭✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......The crafting bag should stay a feature for eso+.
But that doesn't mean that accounts without eso+ cannot benefit from it. After all, there's the eso+ test days several times a year. All gathered material goes into the crafting bag then if you participate. Free players can stock up their ingredients then, its just a matter of timing.
I feel what really needs to be done is a solution for furniture, but thats off-topic in this thread.PC/EU0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »"Introduce a problem and then sell a solution for it."
With inventory management being a problem and Craft Bag being a paid solution. Imagine if you have to for example had to idk. pay monthly subscription to microsoft just to be able to change wallpaper...
Very odd comparison. It would be more akin to paying Comcast for internet service and being upset you had to pay an additional fee if you wanted to watch TV via Comcasts cable services. How dare they.
Zos has provide two options. We can buy DLCs outright which is cheaper per year than paying for a subscription even before considering crowns go on sale twice a year or we can pay more per year for a subscription and get some extra perks.
It is a choice.0 -
LOL. The results being so one sided clearly show most of us understand the business reasons behind Zos' decision.
What I find odd is that there are people who feel that those who do not subscribe, hence pay less to play the game, should have access to any version of the crafting bag. They clearly see the great benefit of the crafting bag yet do not want to pay extra to play the game so they can get it.
This one agrees. So far some of the most resaid arguments against this is "Making a problem and selling a solution", Making false equivalencies between the Bank, Housing Storage and the crafting bag. They claim that ESO+ has so much value that making a "Limited Craft Bag" wouldn't hurt it. Yet they seem to complain like they feel they are "Forced" to buy ESO+ despite claiming ESO already has a lot of value. Besides that just others claiming the experience is drastically affected without the crafting bag despite it not launching with it. Oh and most seem to think they are entitled to a "Limited Crafting Bag" that's all I could gather.
JusticeForJilarga is confused. This one is very confused.Leader Of The Children Of Razum Dar Guild (Khajiit Guild) on All 6 MegaServers
Khajiit Quote Of The Day.
"These useless senche could only kill a rat if they fell upon it. From a great height."1 -
I certainly wouldn't complain if a limited crafting bag was available, but I don't mind not having it. I've got a system in place which keeps all my materials organised and easy to find and I'm not using all the storage space I currently have even without maxing it out.
This one is curious. Was this system hard to set up? Do you feel like you are limited in how much you can store?Leader Of The Children Of Razum Dar Guild (Khajiit Guild) on All 6 MegaServers
Khajiit Quote Of The Day.
"These useless senche could only kill a rat if they fell upon it. From a great height."0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......JusticeForJilarga wrote: »LOL. The results being so one sided clearly show most of us understand the business reasons behind Zos' decision.
What I find odd is that there are people who feel that those who do not subscribe, hence pay less to play the game, should have access to any version of the crafting bag. They clearly see the great benefit of the crafting bag yet do not want to pay extra to play the game so they can get it.
This one agrees. So far some of the most resaid arguments against this is "Making a problem and selling a solution", Making false equivalencies between the Bank, Housing Storage and the crafting bag. They claim that ESO+ has so much value that making a "Limited Craft Bag" wouldn't hurt it. Yet they seem to complain like they feel they are "Forced" to buy ESO+ despite claiming ESO already has a lot of value. Besides that just others claiming the experience is drastically affected without the crafting bag despite it not launching with it. Oh and most seem to think they are entitled to a "Limited Crafting Bag" that's all I could gather.
JusticeForJilarga is confused. This one is very confused.
There is nothing to be confused about and you hit the nail on the head.
Myself, long ago, was about to drop my sub and save a ton of money. Zos announced the crafting bag and I realized it was worth the cost of a sub. It seemed like a great choice for the way I play.
Some people chose the less expensive option for playing this game and are disappointed with their choice but blame Zos. Your use of the word entitled is very appropriate in this matter.
Zos added it as a business decision and it is great we have choices.0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......That's a No from me.
You want a benefit that comes with a paid sub, and even asking for a scaled down version of that is wanting something for nothing and devaluing it. In fact, that we are even having this discussion is proof to zos how valuable that one feature is for ESO+. If I was on the business side of things and saw people making all this ruckus out of something, it would just encourage me to want to keep it as a sub only feature. And that's just one of the features, once combined with all the other things you get with ESO+ makes it probably the only thing for sell in the game where you are getting more than your monies worth.
Now if you are upset with the game and want to not put money into it as some form of protest, well, protest comes with some sort of hardship on the part of those protesting. I certainly think there are good reasons to do so, especially right now with performance, but I wouldn't expect a zos to make it easier on players to not want a sub.
It's also worth noting that every time they do a free plus week, players can take advantage of that and fill up craft bags and put more stuff in homes, etc. I realize this is not an ongoing mini craft bag, but does give you access to some benefits a few times a year.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......No, because there is no good reason for the Crafting Bag to be "limited", and no reason to own one if it was!
DLC purchasers are keeping this game alive, and it it's long past time they should stop being treated like second class citizens. ALL significant content in the game should be for sale in the Crown Store!
By the same token, ESO+ subscribers should not be forced to pay extra for so-called "Chapters", which are really just DLC by another name. Subscribers were promised a long time ago that their access to the game would be "unlimited".
ZOS should stick to the promises they made and make things fair and equitable for both DLC purchasers and subscribers.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE1 -
EvilAutoTech✭✭✭✭✭
✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......There is already a limited craft bag for non subscribers. It is limited in that you can only take stuff out without a subscription.
Possibly the best solution would be to add daily subscriptions for $1 US and weekly subscriptions for $4 US without a crown stipend or free statues but with all other eso+ benefits in tact.
Of course this may also be a terrible business decision. I don't have data to determine that.0 -
J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭Yes Justice for Jilarga. there should be a "Limited Craft Bag" because......I voted yes, but only because I'd prefer if ESO actually went all in on the freemium model instead of the garbage we have now which has people supporting crap like selling skill lines. Even though those same people will tell you selling gear is bad because it takes skill to chest farm sunspire 🙄 .
Design the game. Decide a membership price. Strip the game of features. Offer the stripped game at a reduced one time price, with the full game and features unlocked at the membership price. Sell cosmetics (mounts, costumes, housing, dyes, pets) in crown store.
Much preferable model over supporting game design that is intentionally trash so they can turnaround and sell the skill lines earned from that design. Person who created the psijic order quest has never played a video game in their life if they thought anything about that was fun.
Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert1 -
CaptainBones✭✭Yes Justice for Jilarga. there should be a "Limited Craft Bag" because......But only a limited time "limited craft bag". Give people access to it for maybe one week to show them just how beneficial the craft bag is but don't allow them to keep it. This may bring in new subscribers when they realise just how much of a benefit it is methinks so it could be a good thing having it on a limited time.
But never offer it for free forever, even a limited one. It would devalue the sub craft bag as other have said but giving them a glimpse for a week may show them the benefits of subscribing.
Maybe I'm wrong about this and it's complete nonsense, idk.Edited by CaptainBones on September 2, 2019 5:25AM0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I would subscribe even without a crafting bag because the cost is a bargain compared to other forms of entertainment. That said some do specifically subscribe for the bag. I doubt they would end their subscriptions if a small bag for non subscribers were to be introduced but they would probably feel snubbed.
The crafting bag is convenient but not necessary so it might as well stay sub only. No need for ZoS to chance upsetting the players willing to pay for the game each month.
How is it a bargain? I can read this forum for hours for free. There is endless content in reddit for free. I can play Path of Exile (which I don't play) for hours upon hours for free. I can play Fortnite (which I don't play) for free. I can buy Civ V and all the DLC for a few bucks and play nonstop with no extra payment. Or I can pay $12 to get a copy of Fallout76 and do whatever people do there all day.
I can use the money to sub to Origin Access and play through their catalog of games instead of repeating the same content over and over and over again.
I can go to a basketball court and play pickup basketball for 3 hours at no cost.
I can get a library card for free and check out audiobooks for free. I can even borrow DVDs for free. Or read one of those book thingies.
I don't see how the sub is a bargain. It is far from a bargain. Lets pay $12 again so I can do more crafting writs and run the same dungeons for the 8 thousandth time without being annoyed by inventory management.0 -
redlink1979✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......Pointless"Sweet Mother, sweet Mother, send your child unto me, for the sins of the unworthy must be baptized in blood and fear"- Sons of the Night Mother [PS5][EU] 2165 CP
- Daggerfall's Mightiest [PS5][NA] 1910 CP
- SweetTrolls [PC][EU] 1950 CP
- Bacon Rats [PC][NA] 1850 CP
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Runkorko✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes Justice for Jilarga. there should be a "Limited Craft Bag" because......No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because......
because ppl will lose the only reason to stay subbed
0 -
richo262✭✭✭✭✭
✭No Justice for Jilarga, there should never be a "Limited Craft Bag" because.......I voted no, but I do think ZOS needs to simply remove or cleanup garbage items from the game.
EG
1. Regarding Metal/Cloth/Wood - remove all trait items and their requirement except for nirnhoned.
2. Regarding Jewelery - remove arcane/robust/healthy trait items and their requirement.
3. Regarding Enchanting - remove Jejota and make Ta green. (All existing Jejota become Ta)
4. Regarding Alchemy - remove poison solvents and their requirement (this would also act as a gold sink). Crafted poisons are no longer associated with a level requirement.
5. General culling of mats. Just like Jewelery crafting only has 5 tiers of mats, Clothing, Woodworking, Blacksmithing and Enchanting (Potency) should also only have 5 tiers rather than 10.
I think if ZOS was to spend the time to review existing items, the complaints of storage would diminish.Edited by richo262 on September 3, 2019 11:28AM0
