The best option for me would be the craft bag for a limited time for new players. For example, offer the craft bag for one month.
At the very start players have a minimum of character and bank space, upgrades cost gold, that new players don't have, and training the mount takes time. A new player can't also be expected to rely on their housing storage, not to mention managing the inventory between alts instead of playing the game they are just starting to play.
I also think it's not "best practise" to ask people to pay to play and then asking for more money right away, before they even have a chance to play the game and decide if it's for them or not.
So let new players play for a bit without the burden of managing the inventory, give them time to get the gold they need to buy the upgrades and the time they need to upgrade their mount, at least a little, and then take the training wheels off
AbysmalGhul wrote: »Kahjiit speak is the equivalent of sports superstars speaking about themselves in the 3rd person. So hard to take you serious.
JusticeForJilarga wrote: »While writing the previous post This one has come up with a way better system. Then the one being proposed. This one would like people's opinions who are against the current plan.
Give everyone the Full Crafting Bag BUT people who aren't subbed have to go to a Bank or a special building to Deposit or retrieve the Materials. Also they don't show up while crafting.
While this one doesn't think that ANY form of the craft bag should be given out for free. This is a compromise that JusticeForJilarga is willing to make. The question is do you agree?
don't sub and i never will, i just don't see the point of this though. why is it needed?
S/he's asking if you would like a limited capacity crafting bag, to hold your mats, without subbing.
As opposed to the unlimited one you can only get with ESO+.
If you don't see the point, I assume you don't gather much, or craft?
Hazurko_RaShan wrote: »1. the assertion that the proposed craft bag of 20 items each for non eso + subscribers somehow devalues the eso + subscribers is false, misleading and based on conjecture.
the bank space that non eso + subscribers in no way devalues the double bank space that eso + subscribers receive. Also the housing space that non eso+ subscribers receive in no way devalues the double housing space that eso+ subscribers receive. Finally the transmute crystal space that non eso+ subscribers receive in no way devalues the double currency space for transmute crystals that eso+ subscribers receive. If anything the adding of a small craft bag space of a single stack of 20 count for each craft of item would like increase the value of the eso+ subscription and improve the quality of the game for non eso+ subscribers. And really, not allowing some small craft bag for people who cant subscribe to eso+ is just plain stingy.
If OP is going to make an assertion that a small craftbag space would devalue the eso+ subscribers then a. he would have to argue that the housing space, bank space and transmute crystal space also do the same and b. he would have to back up that argument with actual facts. OP has done none of those things.
2. Who is the OP to judge that someone is or isnt a serious player based on their eso+ subscription. His doubts are not facts but the exact opposite of a fact. Al;so why does it need to change the game only for people OP considers serious. How is that a criteria anyone must meet?
3. If OP believes there are plenty of other storage option then why isn't OP not subbing to eso+ and playing with only those other storage options themselves? they could easily save themselves 15$ us a month. In fact i challenge the op to buy a new account, delete their old account, and play without subbing to eso+ using all those other storage options only..
Just look at all the things an eso+ sub gets a person. The popular assertion that the craftbag is the only thing of value in an eso+ sub is so far from the truth it isnt even funny.
https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/esoplus
Every other storage option for eso+ subscribers has a smaller amount available for non eso+ subscribers except for the craftbag. That's what's unfair as well as stingy.
A small craftbag space would be valuabe to non eso+ subscribers, in no way devalues the eso+ subscription, and is more consistent with the other storage options in eso that allow some space for non eso+ subscribers and a much larger space for eso + subscribers.
All arguments to the contrary seem to operate from a zero-sum game. There is no evidence to supprt a zero-sum game, such as the OP suggests. And the OP offers none.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-sum_game
In game theory and economic theory, a zero-sum game is a mathematical representation of a situation in which each participant's gain or loss of utility is exactly balanced by the losses or gains of the utility of the other participants. If the total gains of the participants are added up and the total losses are subtracted, they will sum to zero. Thus, cutting a cake, where taking a larger piece reduces the amount of cake available for others, is a zero-sum game if all participants value each unit of cake equally (see marginal utility).
In contrast, non-zero-sum describes a situation in which the interacting parties' aggregate gains and losses can be less than or more than zero. A zero-sum game is also called a strictly competitive game while non-zero-sum games can be either competitive or non-competitive. Zero-sum games are most often solved with the minimax theorem which is closely related to linear programming duality,[1] or with Nash equilibrium.
And Finally, i am in fact an eso+ subscriber and have no intention of quitting my sub. I like selling those crowns in game for in game gold, i also appreciate having access to all the dlc, as well as the other bouses to gold, exp, dying costumes, etc.
Addendum: I have 1700 crowns for sale also if you have a need.
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »"Introduce a problem and then sell a solution for it."
With inventory management being a problem and Craft Bag being a paid solution. Imagine if you have to for example had to idk. pay monthly subscription to microsoft just to be able to change wallpaper...
I understand that game has to make money, but forcing ppl to use subscription model will never work, as those people for example simply dont find that model attractive for them. There are simply people out there who for whatever reason (personal preferences etc.) prefer to pay upfront.
That is why imho there should be alternatives to craft bag. Maybe not as good. Maybe not for free. But ZOS, could at least give us option. Bank space is 240 when maxed. It has not been touched since 2014, when game originally launched.
How about just allowing people to upgrade bank further than 240 for crowns ? It is a win-win situation.
Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »"Introduce a problem and then sell a solution for it."
With inventory management being a problem and Craft Bag being a paid solution. Imagine if you have to for example had to idk. pay monthly subscription to microsoft just to be able to change wallpaper...
LOL. The results being so one sided clearly show most of us understand the business reasons behind Zos' decision.
What I find odd is that there are people who feel that those who do not subscribe, hence pay less to play the game, should have access to any version of the crafting bag. They clearly see the great benefit of the crafting bag yet do not want to pay extra to play the game so they can get it.
I certainly wouldn't complain if a limited crafting bag was available, but I don't mind not having it. I've got a system in place which keeps all my materials organised and easy to find and I'm not using all the storage space I currently have even without maxing it out.
JusticeForJilarga wrote: »LOL. The results being so one sided clearly show most of us understand the business reasons behind Zos' decision.
What I find odd is that there are people who feel that those who do not subscribe, hence pay less to play the game, should have access to any version of the crafting bag. They clearly see the great benefit of the crafting bag yet do not want to pay extra to play the game so they can get it.
This one agrees. So far some of the most resaid arguments against this is "Making a problem and selling a solution", Making false equivalencies between the Bank, Housing Storage and the crafting bag. They claim that ESO+ has so much value that making a "Limited Craft Bag" wouldn't hurt it. Yet they seem to complain like they feel they are "Forced" to buy ESO+ despite claiming ESO already has a lot of value. Besides that just others claiming the experience is drastically affected without the crafting bag despite it not launching with it. Oh and most seem to think they are entitled to a "Limited Crafting Bag" that's all I could gather.
JusticeForJilarga is confused. This one is very confused.
I would subscribe even without a crafting bag because the cost is a bargain compared to other forms of entertainment. That said some do specifically subscribe for the bag. I doubt they would end their subscriptions if a small bag for non subscribers were to be introduced but they would probably feel snubbed.
The crafting bag is convenient but not necessary so it might as well stay sub only. No need for ZoS to chance upsetting the players willing to pay for the game each month.