My group of very dedicated ESO friends are dropping like flies. Here's why.

GlorphNoldorin · August 2019

I agree with alot of what was said so far in this thread even those disagreeing with the OP. I think the overall population of ESO has grown....unfortunately that seems to be what the devs think is success.

The end game community......pvp and trials dlc dungeons has shrunk considerably over the years. The unanimous view of all those I know in end game is that the game is not nearly as much fun and has no class identity. Sure they adapt and can do stuff but its just not nearly as much fun. Many of the few left in end game are leaving or not playing this patch.

Much of this is to do with all the classes becoming homogenized. Isn't the point of classes to have differences which the original Dev's delivered by having unique skills that defined classes?

Wings, Incap runecage/crystal frags amongst others....I'm talking early versions were all some skills that really set the classes apart.

The devs over many years have shown they wont listen/ dont know what the key issues in pvp are.....through the proc eras, Earthgore sloads. speed/ immovability.

I guess trials are still ok but I see far fewer interest in them than there has ever been.

DLC dungeons get gimmickier and gimmickier. The last two I see many have reviewed them as interesting and graphically attractive. I just see reskinned themes (which is a little understandable for the story line) from trials and arenas which overly simply reg vet and overly stacking artificially demanding (comms, defile, stacking mechanics) mechanics that step up so sharply that only an elite few will complete them.

In past DLC I spent weeks chasing achievements, it started with Frost vault and hit completely with these DLC, I and many of my friends have no interest in them. Tanking DLC for me used to be fun with movement based content like fang lair, Marches etc but these provide me with no spark or interest.

Yes its time for a break, the first in 5 years.

GrimTheReaper45 · August 2019

Could not agree more.

Each class should give a different way to play. Maybe x class will be 5k-10k dps a head of the others. Maybe x class is better at tanking or healing. I think we as a community are fine with that.

What I feel the community is not fine with and what I personally am not fine with is only having 1 way to play by default of everything being the same.

There will always be a meta, no matter how often zos changes it. What we should be trying to do is make every class the meta at something. Every class should have own unique thing, be it practical like a buff or just its own flavor of gameplay

Jeremy · August 2019

GlorphNoldorin wrote: »

I agree with alot of what was said so far in this thread even those disagreeing with the OP. I think the overall population of ESO has grown....unfortunately that seems to be what the devs think is success.

The end game community......pvp and trials dlc dungeons has shrunk considerably over the years. The unanimous view of all those I know in end game is that the game is not nearly as much fun and has no class identity. Sure they adapt and can do stuff but its just not nearly as much fun. Many of the few left in end game are leaving or not playing this patch.

Much of this is to do with all the classes becoming homogenized. Isn't the point of classes to have differences which the original Dev's delivered by having unique skills that defined classes?

Wings, Incap runecage/crystal frags amongst others....I'm talking early versions were all some skills that really set the classes apart.

The devs over many years have shown they wont listen/ dont know what the key issues in pvp are.....through the proc eras, Earthgore sloads. speed/ immovability.

I guess trials are still ok but I see far fewer interest in them than there has ever been.

DLC dungeons get gimmickier and gimmickier. The last two I see many have reviewed them as interesting and graphically attractive. I just see reskinned themes (which is a little understandable for the story line) from trials and arenas which overly simply reg vet and overly stacking artificially demanding (comms, defile, stacking mechanics) mechanics that step up so sharply that only an elite few will complete them.

In past DLC I spent weeks chasing achievements, it started with Frost vault and hit completely with these DLC, I and many of my friends have no interest in them. Tanking DLC for me used to be fun with movement based content like fang lair, Marches etc but these provide me with no spark or interest.

Yes its time for a break, the first in 5 years.

Well I'm sorry to hear about you and your friends leaving - but honestly I'm loving these changes in the last update. PvP is at least 3x more fun now (maybe more). I can actually move around and you know... actually fight instead of just dying in seconds thanks to stupidly overpowered bursts and layers of AoE all over the place.

PvE is also a lot more fun - especially on my healer. I can heal people now without having to play a game of hide and seek. In one fell swoop this new combat team effectively dealt with two of my biggest problems with this game - namely the absurd damage bursts in PvP and the lack of an effective omnidirectional heal for healers. These guys know what they are doing.

Now if only they can address the lack of an interesting challenge during overland content and they may shut me up for months to come.

Neoauspex · August 2019

All my sorc friends quit forever, all my Templar friends that quit forever are back, etc etc. 401k vs blackjack.

LuxLunae · August 2019

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

While many of our friends who preferred casting have left for the same reasons expressed by Grandma in the following thread, so I will not go into that here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490064/whats-the-point-of-magicka-vs-stamina-anymore-pve#latest (check it out and really read it. I know most of you still around are melee stam people, but it explains the perspective of those who prefer to play casters) In short, Magicka no longer offers any reason to play when stamina can do literally everything better, easier, and magicka is forced at melee to compete anyway with beast traps, zaan, and etc.

My tight-nit group of ESO friends (about 25 of us) has been fairly steady for years, but I have been seeing them quit one after the other, or give excuses why they can't log in anymore since this last patch. It's down to about five of us now, and we are lucky to even get pledges done.

I have personally been looking forward to this patch from a DPS perspective. As a dot caster in EQ, WoW, and pretty much any game that gives me the ability, this meta has been exciting for me. It dawned on me, however, how short sighted I was when discussing why they are going to other games with them. The first thing they almost always say is that combat isn't fun anymore. Playing the game isn't fun if I don't enjoy the combat. these are fair statements, but I was confused because I was having a blast with the new meta.

If you don't like juggling dots . . . lots of dots . . . this patch WOULD feel clunky and annoying to you. This is the problem with modern ESO. Classes don't mean much and everyone plays the same, so choosing a class based on the type of style you like to play isn't possible. Everyone who enjoys juggling dots (like me) is happy as can be, but those who do not will not enjoy the combat. If they don't enjoy the combat they won't enjoy the game.

If you want ESO to prosper class identity MUST mean something. Taking the easy road and just balancing around generic abilities is NOT going to work, wow learned this lesson the hard way.

Use passive abilities to make some classes bursty, some dot heavy, and etc. I have even noticed that there are fewer people logging into my auction guilds and fewer people in the cities I frequent.

People are complaining for a reason. They DO NOT like what this patch has done to ESO, and the problem is that it gives anyone who even wants to slightly compete NO option but to be a heavy dot juggling caster or melee (really just melee).

This is all very unfortunate because ESO is still the only MMO I enjoy. I like nearly everything about it, but this is a seriously big problem.

you say this but when i was walking up a hilll all i saw was fire balls from a group raining down from me... from afar.. I couldnt get close to them..

HOWEVER!!! HOWEVER!!! I at least got close to them...

There are now these WEAPON (NOT STAMINA BUILDS) BUILDS THAT CAN KILL YOU WITHIN 2-3 SECONDS ALONE...

THERE IS NO TIME TO REACT YOU ARE DEAD... THIS WAS NOT AN NB GANK!!! IT WAS JUST BOOOM BOOM DOWN!!!

So yes it is annoying AF that people are using structured entropy and I am dying so much faster since the only heal activated that i have is only vigor...but it's worse where I can't even HIT vigor and i am dead before i know it..

12k single target damage...14k single target dmage.. and 18k single target damage...

I have to give up my MEDIUM ARMOR AND GO FULL HEAVY!!! STAMINA RECOV MEANS NOTHING!!! I CAN GET STAMINA BACK FROM HEAVY ARMORS HEAVY ATTACK ON DEMAND!!!

IM TOSSING OFF THE MEDIUM AND BECOMING THE TANKY POS EVERYBODY ELSE IS!!! I REALIZED THAT ALL THAT MEIDUM ARMOR JUNK DONT MEAN ***... CRIT DONT MEAN ***!!! TOP TEIR WEAPON DAMAGE!!! FULL ON!!! with 30k stamina....

Rungar · August 2019

Blame zos or raid culture.

I think you tanked it yourselves. Lets hope the new guy can take out the trash and turn it around.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · August 2019

sounds like u wont be coming back...can I have ur stuff?

oh and nobody might care but...today I decided to stop trading on EU due to the exploit on guild trader bidding that turned unknown random beggars into billionaires overnight so all my money and hard work in the system didn't mean anything and wont mean anything in a few weeks since it seems zos dont even wanna acknowledge this issue. time to try new things.

Karivaa · August 2019

I’ve played since release too. Had tons of friends I played with. We are all leaving too. We play on console. It isn’t the latest patch, it is the promises Zos has been giving us since release that they were going to fix the game. I just started BDO. I would love to go back to ESO, but get too frustrated by the lag and ridiculous load screens in Cyrodiil. No point in playing. Game and PVP is broken. RIP ESO.

Dusk_Coven · August 2019

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

Maybe x class will be 5k-10k dps a head of the others.

Not gonna happen while they continue to try to balance for both PvE and PvP AT THE SAME TIME.
Everyone's gonna go to that StamNecro-- er, I mean, that class that is 5-10k dps ahead and everyone else is going to cry bloody murder. Like they did already.

Trying to balance two very different environments (PvP and PvE) is hand-tying what ZOS can do and exposing them to endless criticism.

cmvet · August 2019

idk wrote: »

cmvet wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Grandma got a lot wrong there. For starters, the balance between stamina and magicka has swung back and forth many times since the game launched.

Further, Zos has been heavy handed with changes to this game for years. We have adapted/adjusted each time. While some have left the game as a result the population as a whole has grown.

The reason I find players leave is mostly due to either RL changes or because their group gets boring due to the leaders not keeping the action going.

It is odd your friends stayed after morrowind. An update that required a great deal of changes with the hammer given to sustain.

Edit: it would have made more sense to have just added to Grandma's thread instead of creating a thread essentially saying the same thing.

I agree with some of your toughts but strongly disagree with "...the population as a whole has grown". Really, do you think that? Were you around 2 years ago when 3 different cyrodill servers were pop-locked at a time, while handling 75 more people per than they currently do? Kaal is the only server that is ever locked at certain times while the others rarely even have 1 bar of 1 alliance.

2-3 years ago I had a much easier time on DPS toons to join dungeon runs with activity finder than I do now. If you are a tank or healer, you will get grouped almost immediately because there are people waiting forever because there are fewer people running dungeons.

I remember Mournhold and belkarth just being massive hoards of people. Now they might be busy on a saturday, mid day. The population as a whole is not larger now than it has been in the past. The last 12-16 months has seen a decline just from a noticed perspective of playing in-game. Sure we get a bump in returning players immediately after a dlc or add-on release, but those bumps seem short-lived (1-2 weeks).

Speaking to the population. Using Cyrodiil as an indictor shows nothing about the population of the game as this game is overwhelmingly PvE based which makes since because most of the game is PvE. (BTW, I have been in this game since launch which was well before Zos reduced the Cyrodiil pop caps multiple times)

The GF issues we have experienced is due to the GF being overloaded. Granted it happens during peak times but it has not gone away. Hopefully it will be fixed soon.

Further, EU, and to a lesser extent NA, had issues with overloaded populations for the entire game. Zos had to add hardware to accommodate the population and implemented a queue for logging into the game on the PC EU server. All due to population load.

If that is not enough for you, we have one metric that measures a portion of the population. Steam Charts shows the activity of ESO players whos games are linked to Steam. Granted, this is a sliver but it is the only decent metric on the mater we have. July 2019 has a higher pop average and peak population than July 2018 and again more than July 2017 and again for July 2016. That is also how analysts look at data like that, same month over different years and those numbers spell success. BTW, comparing June and July does not work because of seasonal fluctuations.

https://steamcharts.com/app/306130

So do I think the population of ESO is growing, yes.

I think our differences are in PC vs PS4. Unfortunately I'm a console player so steam metrics make no influence on console population stats. Just using the "eye-ball" test in what we see on console now days compared to the peak a few years ago. Like you, I've been playing since launch, but on console. Fewer people in PVP, trials, and in towns during peak hours (all hours really) is what we see.

kind_hero · August 2019

My main char is a magblade which isn't fun to play for me anymore. Magblades already had dot attacks, like crippling strike or swallow soul, but now all the abilities are dots... Really it is so boring and unconvincing for me that I just want to do something else.
I would like to have some burst attacks, instead of building up damage over time and merciless bow strike. I am not reffering to pvp or pve... I am just commenting on how the class feels overall, how fun it is to play. The nerfed magsorc is much fun to play because it still retains some burst damage like frags or furry. I wish things could change... but I understand why some people are leaving.

Mathius_Mordred · August 2019

"My group of very dedicated ESO friends are dropping like flies. Here's why."

so in other words...

We don't like the game anymore so we're leaving.

Ok, so bye, have fun somewhere else, why should I care, I love the game to pieces and the day I don't, I won't play, I also won't come here to tell everyone I'm no longer playing because I know nobody gives a fook what I do.

Why do people insist on telling everyone why they are leaving, I don't care, whether it's on here, Facebook, twitter or any other social media, just do what you need to do and go.

However, if you want to stay and make changes then the forums can be useful indeed, then I will listen.

Nyladreas · August 2019

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

While many of our friends who preferred casting have left for the same reasons expressed by Grandma in the following thread, so I will not go into that here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490064/whats-the-point-of-magicka-vs-stamina-anymore-pve#latest (check it out and really read it. I know most of you still around are melee stam people, but it explains the perspective of those who prefer to play casters) In short, Magicka no longer offers any reason to play when stamina can do literally everything better, easier, and magicka is forced at melee to compete anyway with beast traps, zaan, and etc.

My tight-nit group of ESO friends (about 25 of us) has been fairly steady for years, but I have been seeing them quit one after the other, or give excuses why they can't log in anymore since this last patch. It's down to about five of us now, and we are lucky to even get pledges done.

I have personally been looking forward to this patch from a DPS perspective. As a dot caster in EQ, WoW, and pretty much any game that gives me the ability, this meta has been exciting for me. It dawned on me, however, how short sighted I was when discussing why they are going to other games with them. The first thing they almost always say is that combat isn't fun anymore. Playing the game isn't fun if I don't enjoy the combat. these are fair statements, but I was confused because I was having a blast with the new meta.

If you don't like juggling dots . . . lots of dots . . . this patch WOULD feel clunky and annoying to you. This is the problem with modern ESO. Classes don't mean much and everyone plays the same, so choosing a class based on the type of style you like to play isn't possible. Everyone who enjoys juggling dots (like me) is happy as can be, but those who do not will not enjoy the combat. If they don't enjoy the combat they won't enjoy the game.

If you want ESO to prosper class identity MUST mean something. Taking the easy road and just balancing around generic abilities is NOT going to work, wow learned this lesson the hard way.

Use passive abilities to make some classes bursty, some dot heavy, and etc. I have even noticed that there are fewer people logging into my auction guilds and fewer people in the cities I frequent.

People are complaining for a reason. They DO NOT like what this patch has done to ESO, and the problem is that it gives anyone who even wants to slightly compete NO option but to be a heavy dot juggling caster or melee (really just melee).

This is all very unfortunate because ESO is still the only MMO I enjoy. I like nearly everything about it, but this is a seriously big problem.

I mean what can I say...
Few Pros are mad af and leaving...
Tons of casuals are happy and flooding in.

I couldn't care less about the changes, I adapted + I enjoy the entire package that ESO is and still have fun. So... I'm happy the games healthy.

Sorry mate.

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 · August 2019

For anyone who cares, the group is pretty much done now. The constant crashing and other issues have finally finished us off I think. Most of them are going to keep their eyes open for a change to this disaster, but as It is I've only been logging in daily to do my writs. I don't know if I can get myself motivated enough to jump into a new circle of friends to continue to play this game, unfortunately.

Also to everyone who is arguing what I'm saying, I hear you, but the fact of the matter is -- this is actually what's happening. I get that many of you, like me, actually enjoy the new rotations. Many, many people do not, and now there are no options to play the game as a dpser except dot melee or dot caster.

For what it's worth, i've really enjoyed the healing changes as well.

Bottom Line: If you are going to have classes, classes need to mean FAR MORE FAR FAR FAR MORE than they currently do in this version of ESO.

RoyalFruitBat · August 2019

I have 2 characters in each class, one stamina and one magicka, in hopes of future-proofing myself against bad updates.

Huyen · August 2019

berzerkdethb14_ESO1 wrote: »

While many of our friends who preferred casting have left for the same reasons expressed by Grandma in the following thread, so I will not go into that here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/490064/whats-the-point-of-magicka-vs-stamina-anymore-pve#latest (check it out and really read it. I know most of you still around are melee stam people, but it explains the perspective of those who prefer to play casters) In short, Magicka no longer offers any reason to play when stamina can do literally everything better, easier, and magicka is forced at melee to compete anyway with beast traps, zaan, and etc.

My tight-nit group of ESO friends (about 25 of us) has been fairly steady for years, but I have been seeing them quit one after the other, or give excuses why they can't log in anymore since this last patch. It's down to about five of us now, and we are lucky to even get pledges done.

I have personally been looking forward to this patch from a DPS perspective. As a dot caster in EQ, WoW, and pretty much any game that gives me the ability, this meta has been exciting for me. It dawned on me, however, how short sighted I was when discussing why they are going to other games with them. The first thing they almost always say is that combat isn't fun anymore. Playing the game isn't fun if I don't enjoy the combat. these are fair statements, but I was confused because I was having a blast with the new meta.

If you don't like juggling dots . . . lots of dots . . . this patch WOULD feel clunky and annoying to you. This is the problem with modern ESO. Classes don't mean much and everyone plays the same, so choosing a class based on the type of style you like to play isn't possible. Everyone who enjoys juggling dots (like me) is happy as can be, but those who do not will not enjoy the combat. If they don't enjoy the combat they won't enjoy the game.

If you want ESO to prosper class identity MUST mean something. Taking the easy road and just balancing around generic abilities is NOT going to work, wow learned this lesson the hard way.

Use passive abilities to make some classes bursty, some dot heavy, and etc. I have even noticed that there are fewer people logging into my auction guilds and fewer people in the cities I frequent.

People are complaining for a reason. They DO NOT like what this patch has done to ESO, and the problem is that it gives anyone who even wants to slightly compete NO option but to be a heavy dot juggling caster or melee (really just melee).

This is all very unfortunate because ESO is still the only MMO I enjoy. I like nearly everything about it, but this is a seriously big problem.

Dropped online gaming completely due to unbalance and ongoing monetization.

Gatviper · August 2019

Monetization right now is in every MMO worth keeping an eye on, as far as I know. Maybe there's one or two which didn't pick up the trend yet, but it's become very widespread, and frankly, it's also what causes me to turn away from online gaming and spend time with solo games instead.
About ESO, though they have announced all the performance fixes and maintenance, we'll see how much of a change that will actually turn out to be. Right now as it is, I've lost most of my interest to do anything in the game, except daily log in to pick up daily rewards and hireling mail with crafting supplies.

AbysmalGhul · August 2019

I can adapt to all of the changes. I can't adapt to the longer loading times, crashes, and syncing issues. I logged in once this week because I had to attend a trial ....where I couldn't see most of the enemies. Performance is really killing it for me.

MishMash · August 2019

idk wrote: »

We have adapted/adjusted each time..

That is what I do ... I adapt to the changes whether I like them or not. To be honest I like the challenge. The changes can destroy my build and other times it enhances it. I do not complain much about those changes too much.

Shantu · August 2019

Face it...as long as the game is sufficiently profitable, a license to do as they will is assumed, motivated with little consideration to what players prefer or enjoy. Just look at that recent video of Matt Firor being impressed by the "millions" of new players and how the creative team is "killing" it, all while a bunch of idiots, drunk with their own self-aggrandizement, were screaming in the background. Hell, I'm just a dedicated peon who gives them money, and even I was embarrassed by what I saw.

So "adapt or leave" is a real mantra coming from this group. For now, I still choose to support and adapt, but my sense of good will is waning. The only thing I see this group killing...is the fun.

Wolfpaw · August 2019

A few players & myself are killing time til the new lotro.

Major_Lag · August 2019

I made the mistake of buying the 12-month ESO+ a few months ago. Well, poo.

At the time I made that decision, the game was still doing quite well - no lag in PvE, and mostly tolerable lag in Cyro primetime (PC-EU). At low pop times, Cyro was only very slightly laggy.

I've cancelled my ESO+ at some point between Elsweyr and Scalebreaker, but still have about 5 months of it left.
If it weren't for that, I wouldn't even bother playing anymore at all at this point - instead I would have taken a LONG break, and maybe come back next year, assuming that there would be any real improvement.

As far as I'm concerned, ZOS is rapidly destroying what little is left of ESO for me - so I might as well use up my remaining subscription to its fullest, and enjoy my remaining time here as much as the situation allows... while there's still anything playable left to enjoy.

Edit: to clarify, lag/performance is not the only reason I'm strongly dissatisfied... by far, the constant moronic nerfs and "changes" take the cake. The performance issues are merely the icing on top.