Please explain how PvP is "fun"

Bustincapps · August 2019

Dusk_Coven wrote: »

Bustincapps wrote: »

Chadak wrote: »

It's fun because you get to make someone else unhappy or deprive them of something in some way (real or imagined), and then you get to feel powerful, valid and superior for a little bit.

How is this different from sports or even chess? It's all recreational competition in a different dressing.

There are leagues so people are matched with others of comparable skill. We don't have that here, so PvP is about bullies who whine other people L2P and put them down with zerging or other tactics, or when ZOS nerfs their toys and they can't bully as easily anymore, or when someone 1vX them.

In real world sports people actually want to play against tough opponents because they otherwise learn nothing and don't get better and achieve no renown.
In ESO, people bully others and get rewarded the same as people who actually want competitive PvP.

I wouldn't call it bullying if you consent to competing and the possibility of being put down by another player by entering cyrodiil/BG/IC. Getting zerged down is also something you consent to by entering said zones. No one has the right to complain really.

The poster made a bunch of wild and absurd claims about PvPr's in general and demonising competition as part of human nature. Life itself is a competition for resources. Getting into a good school or a promotion at work means there is a winner and a loser. I guess the Poster I quoted really believes that all humans in general are 'aggressively insecure, the cowardly psychopathic and those with disturbingly low self esteem'.

MajBludd · August 2019

Answer to all questions regarding ic and getting killed in ic, stop whining.

You knew what you were getting into when you went into IC. Stop whining because you lost or didn't get your way.

Vlad9425 · August 2019

So getting killed in a zone where everyone knows PvP is enabled is enough for you to question whether PvP is fun? Surely it’s obvious that PvP is a lot of fun to many people...

ku5h · August 2019

thatlaurachick wrote: »

jadarock wrote: »

Gimmie a break bro it's so easy to level said skill line its ridiculous. Bgs Cyrodiil or IC. Use dots hots fix doors and keep walls it really is that simple

HaruKamui wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.

1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.

Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.

You weren't PVPing though. You were trying to PVE in a PVP area, but were not prepared for PVP.

Please explain how a PvP build, on meta, is not "prepared" enough? Did I miss out on the "normal zerg runs"? Maybe I should join a guild with people who still won't want to come to DC to help me open a quest? Maybe I should get Miats and flat out cheat?

I mean, define "prepared" to be bombed when your health is low. Or you mean don't play ever because someone else might want to kill me, even though I love IC as a zone... without the PvP.

So far, no one in this thread has been particularlaly convincing that this is either "fun" or convinced me that I am at fault.

Your fault is going to PvP zone with 0 PvP XP and expecting to accomplish something. No meta build will carry you and you can have 10yrs of PvE XP, you will still get stomped by 300cp dedicated PvP player.
Just go to Cyro and join a big group, like every new PvP player did. You'll have your skills unlocked in 1-2 day.

Bustincapps · August 2019

thatlaurachick wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Answer to your quandary~ dont go to IC or wait till another time to finish your quest, go with a zerg.

The word "FUN" is subjective, one persons fun is anothers misery vice versa.

Well, so I can't go to Cyro, and I can't go to IC... how am I supposed to get skills? There's not a special vendor selling Assault skills so I don't have to PvP ever.

You seem to have hit on the point "fun" is subjective. Considering what I describe in the post is very literally the same PvP experience I've had for 5 straight years, please explain how I'm supposed to "care" that PvP is "unplayable."

Unplayable for who?

Why not setup an exchange of labour? You and your buddy team up with some PvPrs as body guards/res-bots and in exchange you can carry the pvprs through vet trial/dlc dungeon. It won't be fun for either party but you guys can get what you need lol.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · August 2019

@thatlaurachick
I feel ya. I decided to bring my main char to IC recently and it just wasn't enjoyable to me. Definitely need a group and wasn't enjoying the ride so I'll probably just close that door lol

Isojukka · August 2019

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Orjix wrote: »

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Orjix wrote: »

you get to kill other people, im not sure how its NOT fun. sure you die a lot but that doesnt make it not fun. you were PvEing in a PvP zone, so of course it's not going to be "fun" for you. you are not asking why PvP isnt fun, all you're saying is that you were killed in a PvP zone while you were trying to PvE, your question does not match your situation. also if you choose any other faction besides EP you do kinda need to die, so...

No, the red were PvPing in a PvE zone.

if i can kill an enemy player in a zone, then it is a PvP zone...

Nope, sorry, it's definitely a PvE zone, it has mobs, bosses and everything.

Pvevp

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 2019

Much like pve a lot of what makes pvp fun for many is simple overcoming a challenge.
Sure for some players the denial of fun (ganking) for others is also enjoyable (you can read more about psychological archetypes online)

Let's say someone tried to gank you whilst you were doing the quest and you fought back and managed to kill them. You would likely find that fun because you overcame that challenge.

If you are just going there to "stand still and not engage" then you are simply not allowing yourself the possibility of having fun.

Additionally failure often makes the victories sweeter. If you go into a new trial and 1 shot every boss. It's not fun (aside from maybe just the reward). Likewise for pvp. Aside from the potential rewards if you just kill everyone every time it's not as fun as having a close fight or even losing and then coming back and beating the person.

Ask yourself if that was some pve mob who killed you and took your chest would you be complaining? Or would you just try harder at the encounter to get it down?

Hallothiel · August 2019

@Bustincapps

Good suggestion! Play both pve & pvp and the respective guilds am in are linked - many joint members - but if pve lot want to go into IC or Cyrodiil to get skyshards/quests etc, pvp guild run a ‘bodyguard’ service. Makes it a great laugh, introduces some to the deep joy of pvp and is ‘fun’.

Pve guild will reciprocate but have to say a lot of pvpers are damn fine at pve & do not need help!

Isojukka · August 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

HaruKamui wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.

1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.

Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.

Imperial City is a lot of things, but fun isn't one of them.

I recommend avoiding that place unless you want to be some troll's entertainment for the evening. That or level a Nightblade. Otherwise you're just a sitting duck in there for what ever ganker or zerg comes along.

IC is the most fun I have because of the risk reward with telvar

Do you play as a Nightblade?

I play a lot of classes in IC.

I bet when you're solo you go in there as a Nightlbade then. Otherwise it's anything but fun.

Opinions are like ***, everyone got one...

pdblake · August 2019

Orjix wrote: »

you get to kill other people, im not sure how its NOT fun. sure you die a lot but that doesnt make it not fun. you were PvEing in a PvP zone, so of course it's not going to be "fun" for you. you are not asking why PvP isnt fun, all you're saying is that you were killed in a PvP zone while you were trying to PvE, your question does not match your situation. also if you choose any other faction besides EP you do kinda need to die, so...

To me, it more begs the question, why is there PvE content in a PvP zone at all?

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 2019

pdblake wrote: »

Orjix wrote: »

you get to kill other people, im not sure how its NOT fun. sure you die a lot but that doesnt make it not fun. you were PvEing in a PvP zone, so of course it's not going to be "fun" for you. you are not asking why PvP isnt fun, all you're saying is that you were killed in a PvP zone while you were trying to PvE, your question does not match your situation. also if you choose any other faction besides EP you do kinda need to die, so...

To me, it more begs the question, why is there PvE content in a PvP zone at all?

To increase player participation and reward. Wolves need sheep to hunt. Sheep need grass (pve content).

pdblake · August 2019

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

pdblake wrote: »

Orjix wrote: »

you get to kill other people, im not sure how its NOT fun. sure you die a lot but that doesnt make it not fun. you were PvEing in a PvP zone, so of course it's not going to be "fun" for you. you are not asking why PvP isnt fun, all you're saying is that you were killed in a PvP zone while you were trying to PvE, your question does not match your situation. also if you choose any other faction besides EP you do kinda need to die, so...

To me, it more begs the question, why is there PvE content in a PvP zone at all?

To increase player participation and reward. Wolves need sheep to hunt. Sheep need grass (pve content).

Makes sense I suppose, but it doesn't work for me. I've still not been to Cyrodil at CP399, not even been tempted. I don't like PvP save for the odd mad 15 minutes in BGs, where I get my backside kicked every time (though it does leave me laughing most of the time). I just don't like the idea of having to do a quest or try to farm certain drops (for thing's I've done perfectly well without so far) while someone else is trying (and likely succeeding) to kill me all the time. It doesn't sound like fun at all, though I suppose at some point I'll bite the bullet and try it (just cos I like to get my money's worth) and might prove myself wrong.

Then when I read all the posts about sets and DPS, it all just sounds so serious too.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · August 2019

pdblake wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

pdblake wrote: »

Orjix wrote: »

you get to kill other people, im not sure how its NOT fun. sure you die a lot but that doesnt make it not fun. you were PvEing in a PvP zone, so of course it's not going to be "fun" for you. you are not asking why PvP isnt fun, all you're saying is that you were killed in a PvP zone while you were trying to PvE, your question does not match your situation. also if you choose any other faction besides EP you do kinda need to die, so...

To me, it more begs the question, why is there PvE content in a PvP zone at all?

To increase player participation and reward. Wolves need sheep to hunt. Sheep need grass (pve content).

Makes sense I suppose, but it doesn't work for me. I've still not been to Cyrodil at CP399, not even been tempted. I don't like PvP save for the odd mad 15 minutes in BGs, where I get my backside kicked every time (though it does leave me laughing most of the time). I just don't like the idea of having to do a quest or try to farm certain drops (for thing's I've done perfectly well without so far) while someone else is trying (and likely succeeding) to kill me all the time. It doesn't sound like fun at all, though I suppose at some point I'll bite the bullet and try it (just cos I like to get my money's worth) and might prove myself wrong.

Then when I read all the posts about sets and DPS, it all just sounds so serious too.

Should read my earlier comment above. If you go in with the mindset of trying to lose you aren't gnna have fun.

AbysmalGhul · August 2019

I've never heard of a deer that stood in front of the headlights of a vehicle barreling down at them...come to the forums and complain about staring into headlights of a vehicle barreling down at them....

This is a first

InvictusApollo · August 2019

thatlaurachick wrote: »

OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.

1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.

Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.

Some time ago some girl complained that her whole guild raid group was taken out by two enemy players who seemed to lose almost no health to their attacks.

There were two of you. You ask how "being good" would have helped. Those two players I described were good enough to wipe one zerg group. They would most likely wipe the one that attacked you.
How? Well if I were in a situation like this, I would immediately call my friend to disengage and lure zerglings into a building, divide them and then kill one by one. Then we would return to the boss, sneak up on zerglings who decided to stay on him and kill them in chaos.

That is how "being good" would have helped.

pdblake · August 2019

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

Should read my earlier comment above. If you go in with the mindset of trying to lose you aren't gnna have fun.

Just read it now and the last paragraph sums it up nicely, and I have to agree.

"Ask yourself if that was some pve mob who killed you and took your chest would you be complaining? Or would you just try harder at the encounter to get it down?"

I will, at some point, roll an alt that isn't as squishy as my current petSorc, and give it a go.

Idinuse · August 2019

What joy do you get from using the /salty emote on the last boss in a trial? Only in PvP!

Aurielle · August 2019

thatlaurachick wrote: »

KillsAllElves wrote: »

Answer to your quandary~ dont go to IC or wait till another time to finish your quest, go with a zerg.

The word "FUN" is subjective, one persons fun is anothers misery vice versa.

Well, so I can't go to Cyro, and I can't go to IC... how am I supposed to get skills? There's not a special vendor selling Assault skills so I don't have to PvP ever.

You seem to have hit on the point "fun" is subjective. Considering what I describe in the post is very literally the same PvP experience I've had for 5 straight years, please explain how I'm supposed to "care" that PvP is "unplayable."

Unplayable for who?

Nothing to see here, folks. Besides not actually trying to PVP and instead trying to PVE in a PVP zone, OP has an obvious agenda. It’s the part of her response that I’ve bolded.

OP, I hate trials. They bore me to tears. However, it would still concern me if a basic update made trials unplayable. It’s called putting yourself in another person’s shoes. It’s called empathy. You don’t have to like or participate in PVP to care that Cyrodiil is unplayable for us.

teladoy · August 2019

Remember that you can always do the same to someone else that somebody did to you

EmEm_Oh · August 2019

thatlaurachick wrote: »

OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.

1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.

Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.

PvP. It's not created 100% of the time for you and what you want.

When your faction owns most of the map, do the quests....and/or use detect pots, avoid being conspicuous.

Unlike PvE...you'll need to come back to fight another day.

Beardimus · August 2019

thatlaurachick wrote: »

OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.

1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.

Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.

- be tactical. If you don't want to encounter people pick a quiet time, and probably noCP.
- if you still catch people tool up for PvP, Impen / Crit resistance
- ask in a guild, some PvPers might help you. I do this for PvEers in my guilds.

The questline is a fun one, def worth doing, but you just need a plan, that's all. Don't discount PvP as fun if you aren't setup. PvE is no fun if you have all the wrong gear and strategy

Also see it from there side, not everyone is trolling you. Often its instinct people see players and attack as if not people attack you! Admittedly others will be ganking, its a gank zone.

If ur Xbox ill help.

Luede · August 2019

if u cant handle to die, pvp will never be a funny part of this game. and no, to have "the best gear in game" is not preparing for pvp. maybe u will survive 3 seconds instead of 2.

Preparing for pvp means u are able to win fights more often then to die.

Im_MegaDeath · August 2019

Title should say How is PvP fun for people who think they are in a PvE zone because of how dead the area is

Coatmagic · August 2019

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

Don't worry, you can buy the PvP skill line now. So you never have to go to Cryodiil again.

ya have to have unlocked it on at least one char ya derp xD

to the OP ~

just take your friend and grind out a few battlegrounds; as someone who also loathes pvp, it's the easiest to swallow since it's just twenty mins of abuse at a time ~ and even i can get a giggle out of how bad i am trying hard

Shadow_Akula · August 2019

It isn’t fun.
Also IC is the perfect example why PVP & PVE do not mix. Even after the seperate servers, it’s population is still next to nothing*

*i can only speak for XBEU server and only my personal experiences others may have different experiences

Arthg · August 2019

I came to this game to PvE with a friend.
I got insta-hooked to PvP when I jumped into Cyro the first time: the adrenaline, the required theorycrafting, situational awareness, skill-juggling, the hunt and prey game - that got to me big time.

However, I do understand the frustration.
There's a culture of trying to get under the opponents' skin (with t-bags for example), and all too often an absence of any sort of self-control and decency (cf. rage whispers), and these can be hard to get past, but not all PvPers are insecured kids with too much time on their hands.

I believe that to have fun in PvP in this game, you need three things:

1) to enjoy outsmarting your opponents - in any kind of way, outnumbering, outrunning, outbuilding, outsneaking you name it.
2) to enjoy improving and learning - the rewards of realizing you're becoming good in PvP are unequaled.
3) And most importantly: an IDGAF attitude. DON'T TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. You die, you lose some Telvars - it means nothing. You get outplayed, so be it - better luck next time. THE FIGHT IS THE REWARD.

Finally, IC is probably not the best place to start PvPing...

Good luck out there

Reverb · August 2019

thatlaurachick wrote: »

jadarock wrote: »

Gimmie a break bro it's so easy to level said skill line its ridiculous. Bgs Cyrodiil or IC. Use dots hots fix doors and keep walls it really is that simple

HaruKamui wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.

1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.

Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.

You weren't PVPing though. You were trying to PVE in a PVP area, but were not prepared for PVP.

Please explain how a PvP build, on meta, is not "prepared" enough? Did I miss out on the "normal zerg runs"? Maybe I should join a guild with people who still won't want to come to DC to help me open a quest? Maybe I should get Miats and flat out cheat?

I mean, define "prepared" to be bombed when your health is low. Or you mean don't play ever because someone else might want to kill me, even though I love IC as a zone... without the PvP.

So far, no one in this thread has been particularlaly convincing that this is either "fun" or convinced me that I am at fault.

Gear matters far less in PvP than it does for competitive pve. There is always a meta, and many players who hump that meta, but a high percentage of really effective pvp'ers in this game are wearing off-bis gear that works for them and their play style.

To borrow a line from someone else on the forums: success in eso pvp is 40% experience and situational awareness, 30% skill, and 30% gear.

But no one on the forums will be able to convince you how to have fun. If you prefer the scripted encounters and predictability of fighting NPCs then go ahead and keep doing that.

dagrdagaz_5912 · August 2019

Beating a dead horse again

Either remove PvE content from Cyrodill, or make a seperate PvE Cyrodil.

Samadhi · August 2019

Reverb wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

jadarock wrote: »

Gimmie a break bro it's so easy to level said skill line its ridiculous. Bgs Cyrodiil or IC. Use dots hots fix doors and keep walls it really is that simple

HaruKamui wrote: »

thatlaurachick wrote: »

OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.

1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.

Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.

You weren't PVPing though. You were trying to PVE in a PVP area, but were not prepared for PVP.

Please explain how a PvP build, on meta, is not "prepared" enough? Did I miss out on the "normal zerg runs"? Maybe I should join a guild with people who still won't want to come to DC to help me open a quest? Maybe I should get Miats and flat out cheat?

I mean, define "prepared" to be bombed when your health is low. Or you mean don't play ever because someone else might want to kill me, even though I love IC as a zone... without the PvP.

So far, no one in this thread has been particularlaly convincing that this is either "fun" or convinced me that I am at fault.

Gear matters far less in PvP than it does for competitive pve. There is always a meta, and many players who hump that meta, but a high percentage of really effective pvp'ers in this game are wearing off-bis gear that works for them and their play style.
...

While respecting and mostly agreeing with your point
there are things that matter a fair bit in terms of preparedness -- having a full 7 pieces of Impenetrable will give even a new player more room to breathe and keep themselves alive

but, similarly, someone showing up for an end-game progression trial with a full 7 pieces of Impenetrable won't be taken very seriously