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Please explain how PvP is "fun"
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yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@SidraWillowsky in my experience the only 2 times this happens is when the quarter is especially lippy and that feeds the pvp ego or when a pvp person is super bored.
Most times if you get killed and wgisper the person who killed you and have a dialogue that you just need to finish the quest they will leave you alone.
Its when you send passive aggressive tells or antagonize the pvper that they will make it their mission to ruin your dayTl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭thatlaurachick wrote: »Gimmie a break bro it's so easy to level said skill line its ridiculous. Bgs Cyrodiil or IC. Use dots hots fix doors and keep walls it really is that simplethatlaurachick wrote: »OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.
1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.
Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.
You weren't PVPing though. You were trying to PVE in a PVP area, but were not prepared for PVP.
Please explain how a PvP build, on meta, is not "prepared" enough? Did I miss out on the "normal zerg runs"? Maybe I should join a guild with people who still won't want to come to DC to help me open a quest? Maybe I should get Miats and flat out cheat?
I mean, define "prepared" to be bombed when your health is low. Or you mean don't play ever because someone else might want to kill me, even though I love IC as a zone... without the PvP.
So far, no one in this thread has been particularlaly convincing that this is either "fun" or convinced me that I am at fault.
Well if you were prepared, you wouldn't be having those bad experiences.
As people say in sports, you can only have fun if you're good at it.
And how would he "prepare" for some zerg running him over while trying to do a daily?
You prepare by accepting the fact that it's a zone with PVP and there's a high likelihood you will die at some point. Possibly repeatedly. The best PVPers in the game still die. Someone loses, always, it says so right on the box.
If you can't accept pixel death to another player, PVP zones are not for you.
If you can't accept that in IC, you will not only die, but lose telvar, IC is not for you.
The fun of pvp is the unscripted encounter. The players you usually beat who suddenly turn around a win, or vice versa. The player/group whose build you think you know, until they change it. The human tactics and unprogrammed responses to what you are doing.
If you don't enjoy the unexpected, stay out of pvp zones and you'll be happier. Or if you need your alliance skills, stay up top in Cyro and zerg surf for AP.8 -
MartiniDaniels✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Like in any PVP game, you need experience and skill to have fun in PVP. ESO's problem is lack of MMR with exception of BG's. So yeah when in Cyro or IC you will meet experienced player you will die and die and die, simply because huge "MMR" difference. But in BG's you will start running into such players only after dozens of matches spend there and so you have time to learn. This is not nuclear physics, it all comes from experience. You need to die 100 times to learn what to expect and how to counteract this.1 -
Genomic✭✭✭✭✭KillsAllElves wrote: »For some 'people' fun = causing another person misery.
FTFY.
I think there are DSM-5 classifications for this kind of behavior.
Edited by Genomic on August 22, 2019 6:23AM3 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭On behalf of Reds i apologize, any decent player should know the etiquette concerning PvErs. Ignore and remain at a distance. Do not attack unless attacked upon. Those players were just tryhards thirsty for easy targets.
My only advice is to try and do your IC questing in the night hours. An empty city is a safe one. Just in case though you should invest in some invisibility potions.CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!3 -
Open PvP has always been and will always be complete garbage.
UNLESS the entire game is open PvP.. like Ultima Online. Then you know what to expect.
But Siege PvP in games ends up just being all about zerging and whoever has the most players.
In fact to siege towers most people wait until the enemy leaves or logs off to go capture stuff. How is that good PvP?
Ever since Warhammer online started the open world sieging PvP it has sucked and always will suck. It doesn't promote fair equal balanced PvP at all one bit.
Sadly the arena's are the only place you will get close to balanced PvP.
I wish they'd just put sieges into instances that have set timers like once every couple hours. Then put a timer on it like give the attackers an hour or something to try to siege. If they fail, defenders win.
But yah from the days I ran with Ruin in Warhammer online... riding around with 100+ people rofltomping groups of 20-30 players at a time I was like... OK yah this is boring AF. Enough of this garbage.2 -
Chadak✭✭✭✭✭Pvp is the favorite game mode of the aggressively insecure, the cowardly psychopathic and those with disturbingly low self esteem.
It is a game mode motivated by a need to prove yourself somehow superior to someone else, and that's usually where all relevant purposes for it end.
It's terrific and broad appeal gives exclusively on giving people an arbitrary measuring stick by which they can determine their value in an arbitrary system that falls outside of conventional status markers, such as wealth and aesthetic appeal.
It also lends well and, as a game mode, often rewards the basest and crudest of human impulses towards tribalistic 'us vs them' mentality as well as by asserting dominance through violence and shame.
Are all pvpers insecure desperates thirsty for a chance to feel superior to other people?
By and large, yes. Whether that thirst is clad in egotism or lack of self esteem, they're thirsty for a chance to feel like they're good, able and worthy through acts of dominance.
It is not enough for them that they should win; someone else has to lose. It's empty and pointless if you haven't broken your enemies and salted their lands.
Many of them will argue vehemently against an uncharitable view such as this and say things such as 'they just rant to have fun and human opponents provide the best challenge'. Many more will say that it's all very cooperative actually and fosters leadership and teamwork.
Pretty much all of them will act like I'm taking it all way too seriously and 'it's just a game' and 'we're just trying to have fun' while simultaneously failing completely to comprehend that maybe Murder Simulator 9000 isn't actually better than would be *** Simulator 9000.
All the best-light renditions fail to acknowledge that the fun of PvP is 100% dependant on someone else's failure and loss, and avid fans of Murder Simulation 9000 often won't see anything wrong or even questionable about this, and may even hedge by asserting that it's all harmless digital fun anyway and nobody actually gets hurt.
Justifications and rationalizations in apologetics will always feature ennobling, sanitizing and softening distortions of the basic facts of an issue, and when it comes to Pvp and pvpers by elective association, it's the game mode for people whose idea of fun is motivated by a desire to feel superior to others by making them feel or somehow proving them to be inferior.
How is that fun? It calls to the worst in us and glorifies it, rewards it and legitimizes it.
You can let your inner psychopath out in a consequence free environment and be rewarded and admired by others for being the most expertly, creatively or efficiently violent person in the figurative room.
Thats not only the goal, but the essence of the point of pvp.
You can't win unless someone else loses. You don't really win until everyone fears you and wishes they were you.
It's fun because you get to make someone else unhappy or deprive them of something in some way (real or imagined), and then you get to feel powerful, valid and superior for a little bit.Edited by Chadak on August 22, 2019 5:34AM6 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PvP is fun in mmorpgs.
PvP leads to griefing when it's restricted in concepts like Cyrodiil and players are labeled Red Blue Yellow with mute /zone, /general chats.
Dont blame the morons that grief you.
Blame Zos for thinking that Tamriel would be best if PvP is isolated.
Blame yourself for going into the ONLY pvp dlc. Thousands more PvE players have completed it though without complaining.
As for being good in PvP. Good mmorpg players are good at all concepts. Imo if you are not good at PvP you are no more good than facerolling overland ESO maps.
I wish you had experienced mmorpgs back in the 2000s.
Then you wouldnt find it strange that players can target you and /attack outside of city walls.
You are supposedly playing a medieval fantasy game and you carry weapons and armors while playing alongside other real people.
I come off as having a go at you but I hope that one day you will play an mmorpg with open world PvP and PvE and it will be the best gaming experience. Eso is not a very rich experience rather than a casusl activity.
Edited by GeorgeBlack on August 22, 2019 5:50AM1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Why is PvP fun in mmorpgs?
Because you create a character and explore a mythical world. Every player can be your friend or your enemy.
Real relationships are mirrored in real interactions.
Bravery and generosity is rewarded with friendships and companions.
Aggressiveness from other real people leads to rivalries and triamph.
What is fun about "Chosen one! Kill 10 bandits."
/faceroll animation cancel
"Chosen one! Bring me a uniform and Ill play at the theatre performance"
/faceroll animation cancel horse ride horse ride wayshrine.
?
Here's a list of /faceroll that is actually fun
Arkham games
Assassins Creed
Witcher games
Dragon Age
Many others.
Edited by GeorgeBlack on August 22, 2019 5:52AM2 -
OwnerOfSuccuby✭✭✭Try to pvp yesterday ... Now pvp is not funny even when i win i do not like it. It is stupid now+ lugs bugs and etc. I do not fill mouse like mouse when try to manipulate character. It is more like i manipulate character with piece of shiit on usb
Character do not follow 70% of commands. I evev can not buff it some times. 2 -
Jurand80✭✭✭✭
So what message do you get when a 5th person joins the party? "You are no longer a smallish group"?KillsAllElves wrote: »....
12 man group is not a zerg its a small group.
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Zer0_CooL✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, best thing to do if you want these things done efficiently, is to look for a guild in a big group. And even then wait until most of the group have looted the chest, to avoid beeing bombed.
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Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Are you kidding me? The activity you describe in the OP (doing IC dailies, killing bosses, looting chests) is not PvP, that's PvE. PvP would be you going to IC looking for fights or going to cyrodiil, taking keeps, resources with others or going out solo and fight outnumbered. You PvE'ed in a PvP zone, got PvP'ed by PvP'ers and complain like a PvE care bear that PvP things happened in a PvP zone why you were doing your little PvE activities.thatlaurachick wrote: »Gimmie a break bro it's so easy to level said skill line its ridiculous. Bgs Cyrodiil or IC. Use dots hots fix doors and keep walls it really is that simplethatlaurachick wrote: »OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.
1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.
Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.
You weren't PVPing though. You were trying to PVE in a PVP area, but were not prepared for PVP.
Please explain how a PvP build, on meta, is not "prepared" enough? Did I miss out on the "normal zerg runs"? Maybe I should join a guild with people who still won't want to come to DC to help me open a quest? Maybe I should get Miats and flat out cheat?
I mean, define "prepared" to be bombed when your health is low. Or you mean don't play ever because someone else might want to kill me, even though I love IC as a zone... without the PvP.
So far, no one in this thread has been particularlaly convincing that this is either "fun" or convinced me that I am at fault.
Being prepared is not just slotting the gear, it is also the mindset that you accept that you might be attacked at a moments notice, and that if you PvE in a PvP zone, that you are taking a huge risk by putting yourself in a situation where can be at low health.
Stop making idiotic comparisons and grow a set of nuts.11 -
mague✭✭✭✭✭thatlaurachick wrote: »OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.
1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.
Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.
The current PvP paradigm is disconnected and not fun. If you want something from the zone, then bear with it. Otherwise leave. What we call active or passive ganking is just fun farming, your fun !0 -
Uryel✭✭✭✭✭
✭20 years playing MMOs, and I still wonder what fun is to be had in PvP.
I like to play WITH people, not AGAINST people, so maybe there's that.3 -
vesselwiththepestle✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Battlegrounds. You get ~7k even if you lose the match.thatlaurachick wrote: »Well, so I can't go to Cyro, and I can't go to IC... how am I supposed to get skills? There's not a special vendor selling Assault skills so I don't have to PvP ever.1000+ CP
PC/EU Ravenwatch Daggerfall Covenant
Give me my wings back!4 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thatlaurachick wrote: »Gimmie a break bro it's so easy to level said skill line its ridiculous. Bgs Cyrodiil or IC. Use dots hots fix doors and keep walls it really is that simplethatlaurachick wrote: »OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.
1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.
Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.
You weren't PVPing though. You were trying to PVE in a PVP area, but were not prepared for PVP.
I love IC as a zone...
that grayish, purple environment really gets me...the districts are a beautifully decimated zone...I love all those daedra hanging out...
by far my favorite zone in all of tamriel to player watch...learned a long time ago that staying in stealth (particularly as a very average solo pvp player) was a huge neccesity...
back in the day there used to be no flags and you could rez on any alliance platform in any district...death meant little to nothing...
players from each alliance would congregate together in a single district and fight and duel around the clock...wild and endless fighting with little purpose besides practicing your fighting and having fun...it's where I learned to block and roll dodge
PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place1 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭20 years playing MMOs, and I still wonder what fun is to be had in PvP.
I like to play WITH people, not AGAINST people, so maybe there's that.
1v1 is just one form of pvp - dueling...
battlegrounds, cyro, IC you have allies, even if you're not grouped up or familiar with that player...easy to rp your way in to some great fun supporting other players...I love healing and keeping folks on my side alive, totally can make a huge difference pvping...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OwnerOfSuccuby wrote: »Try to pvp yesterday ... Now pvp is not funny even when i win i do not like it. It is stupid now+ lugs bugs and etc. I do not fill mouse like mouse when try to manipulate character. It is more like i manipulate character with piece of shiit on usb Character do not follow 70% of commands. I evev can not buff it some times.
even when the visuals get super choppy, I'll still run though my skill rotations, I just have to remember to heal more often...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place0 -
Xerikten✭✭✭✭others like to run around in groups killing those with less players than they. when they loose it is only because the other cheated. pvp gives license to destructive behavior to far too many. sadly it is why many play it.1
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geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thatlaurachick wrote: »OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.
1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.
Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.
Imperial City is a lot of things, but fun isn't one of them.
I recommend avoiding that place unless you want to be some troll's entertainment for the evening. That or level a Nightblade. Otherwise you're just a sitting duck in there for what ever ganker or zerg comes along.
IC is the most fun I have because of the risk reward with telvar
Do you play as a Nightblade?
I play a lot of classes in IC.
I bet when you're solo you go in there as a Nightlbade then. Otherwise it's anything but fun.
if you're solo on any other magicka build than nightblade you really need to pack stam and invisibility pots...it can be really tough to sustain staying hidden...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place1 -
evoniee✭✭✭✭it is not fun:
-killed by cheese / op build.
-steamrolled / outnumbered when we not deserve it.
it is fun:
-get a good fight even though lose with a non cheese douchebg player.
-have fun although died after get a deserving outnumbered.2 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭So yeah if you can faceroll mobs, it is "fun". But you die to someone can fight back, does unscripted things, "boo".
Quit it already.
4 -
Pvp is the favorite game mode of the aggressively insecure, the cowardly psychopathic and those with disturbingly low self esteem.
It is a game mode motivated by a need to prove yourself somehow superior to someone else, and that's usually where all relevant purposes for it end.
It's terrific and broad appeal gives exclusively on giving people an arbitrary measuring stick by which they can determine their value in an arbitrary system that falls outside of conventional status markers, such as wealth and aesthetic appeal.
It also lends well and, as a game mode, often rewards the basest and crudest of human impulses towards tribalistic 'us vs them' mentality as well as by asserting dominance through violence and shame.
Are all pvpers insecure desperates thirsty for a chance to feel superior to other people?
By and large, yes. Whether that thirst is clad in egotism or lack of self esteem, they're thirsty for a chance to feel like they're good, able and worthy through acts of dominance.
It is not enough for them that they should win; someone else has to lose. It's empty and pointless if you haven't broken your enemies and salted their lands.
Many of them will argue vehemently against an uncharitable view such as this and say things such as 'they just rant to have fun and human opponents provide the best challenge'. Many more will say that it's all very cooperative actually and fosters leadership and teamwork.
Pretty much all of them will act like I'm taking it all way too seriously and 'it's just a game' and 'we're just trying to have fun' while simultaneously failing completely to comprehend that maybe Murder Simulator 9000 isn't actually better than would be *** Simulator 9000.
All the best-light renditions fail to acknowledge that the fun of PvP is 100% dependant on someone else's failure and loss, and avid fans of Murder Simulation 9000 often won't see anything wrong or even questionable about this, and may even hedge by asserting that it's all harmless digital fun anyway and nobody actually gets hurt.
Justifications and rationalizations in apologetics will always feature ennobling, sanitizing and softening distortions of the basic facts of an issue, and when it comes to Pvp and pvpers by elective association, it's the game mode for people whose idea of fun is motivated by a desire to feel superior to others by making them feel or somehow proving them to be inferior.
How is that fun? It calls to the worst in us and glorifies it, rewards it and legitimizes it.
You can let your inner psychopath out in a consequence free environment and be rewarded and admired by others for being the most expertly, creatively or efficiently violent person in the figurative room.
Thats not only the goal, but the essence of the point of pvp.
You can't win unless someone else loses. You don't really win until everyone fears you and wishes they were you.
It's fun because you get to make someone else unhappy or deprive them of something in some way (real or imagined), and then you get to feel powerful, valid and superior for a little bit.
How is this different from sports or even chess? It's all recreational competition in a different dressing.
6 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thatlaurachick wrote: »OK, trying to unlock IC dailies on a new toon. Sadly, these quests are not solo-able for me, so I brought a friend.
1. We're in the Arena quest, almost done - one EP guy bombs us both and we have to re-do the last fights.
2. We move on to Nobles, working on defending the building... two EP keep attacking an running away until we're down to 5% on the last boss, then gank us and take the chest.
3. We return to Nobles to finish the quest... 12 "man" EP zerg comes through and runs us over. Complete with tea bagging 2 people who didn't even fight back.
Please explain how this is "fun" and how "being good" would have helped.
This is ZOS being "stupid". How do they really expect people to do questing in a PvP zone and there's no alternative to go to a PvE version of it?
Probably the real reason for PvE content in Cyrodiil / Sewers / Imperial City is to draw people in there. Otherwise it'd be as dead as the SWTOR PvP instances: Empty of PvP except for the idiot who sits around waiting hours for someone to ride by just so they can gank them. Everyone else is there for PvE content because actual PvE instances are too full due to an event.
Edited by Dusk_Coven on August 22, 2019 8:12AM2 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Bustincapps wrote: »It's fun because you get to make someone else unhappy or deprive them of something in some way (real or imagined), and then you get to feel powerful, valid and superior for a little bit.
How is this different from sports or even chess? It's all recreational competition in a different dressing.
There are leagues so people are matched with others of comparable skill. We don't have that here, so PvP is about bullies who whine other people L2P and put them down with zerging or other tactics, or when ZOS nerfs their toys and they can't bully as easily anymore, or when someone 1vX them.
In real world sports people actually want to play against tough opponents because they otherwise learn nothing and don't get better and achieve no renown.
In ESO, people bully others and get rewarded MORE than people who actually want competitive PvP because they can kill weak opponents faster.Edited by Dusk_Coven on August 22, 2019 8:21AM4 -
Sylosi✭✭✭✭✭
✭PvP when it is well done is the most fun type of game, which is why millions or in some cases tens of millions play some PvP games. But PvP in ESO is done badly (not competitive in any meaningful sense), so really isn't much fun, which is why very few people do it.
Though to be fair the same applies to PvE, which is why games like this are heavy on "rewards" which are basically used as a substitute for the poor gameplay.
Which is why essentially the MMORPG genre is in the moribund state that it is, poor gameplay and its main audience of Skinner Box zombies has largely been eaten up by mobile games.Edited by Sylosi on August 22, 2019 8:38AM2
