Erelah wrote: »

An IP block is pretty easy, blocking VPNs are easy as well. Certain large companies block such traffic from the site. Of course could change it that logging in does not not look just for an IP address but MAC addresses and block those as well.

Except NO ONE even has a static IP so unless you wanna ban an entire IP-range (and countless innocent players along with it), it does absolutely nothing. And changing your MAC address is about as time-consuming as getting a fresh pair of socks.

Earthewen wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

I think it was a Rockstar game where cheaters and griefers were given a dunce cap and were restricted to playing only with other cheaters for a while.

I think that would be a great ideda …..instead of a wall of shame, give them their own server. problem solved.

Then all the people caught cheating all can still play but only with other people who are cheating. Then all the people NOT cheating can have a clean game and a better time.

Now that....that would be in compliance with ZOS rules and serve a purpose.

Erelah wrote: »

Yes changing the hardware in your computer is about as time... yeah I am just not going to respond to you as you are providing misinformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address
https://www.wikihow.com/Find-the-MAC-Address-of-Your-Computer
https://www.lifewire.com/introduction-to-mac-addresses-817937

Sure, misinformation.

https://www.howtogeek.com/192173/how-and-why-to-change-your-mac-address-on-windows-linux-and-mac/

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

You guys are not reading what I actually said. They should not post the names of people REPORTED. Only those people CONFIRMED as cheaters and exploiters. :-)

And when that "confirmation" is unjust, when the system was wrong and unjustly "confirmed" someone as a cheater... what then? How do you restore the honor of a victim to an unjust public shaming wall? (tip: you can't, they will foreever be blemished in the eyes of a lot of players, just like IRL when someone is publicly accused of sex crimes and there's a pu blic outcry. Then when they are found innocent, because they didnt do it, no one cares and people still see them as guilty). This is what I meant with my initial comment, that it is about protecting the innocent, not about protecting the guilty.

Or you do just not believe unjust verdicts are real?

I think the best problem solver was mention above. Just give them their own server. I'm not a computer whiz, but I would think there would be something in the "code" that ZOS can use to confirm. I've never heard of an unjust banning to be honest when it is so black and white. Using the analogy of the sex crimes is a bit harder to prove without definitive evidence. I'm guess something a little more black and white like computer coding would serve as hard evidence. Wouldn't it?

Seems there are some 'protesting too much' what should be obviously wrong behaviors and as I read some comments I have to wonder why that might be. Make no mistake, its about what should be accepted behaviors vs what should be dealt with very, very harshly.

One could argue there really are no rules if breaking them isn't dealt with in a way that prevents repeated offenses. And if that is the case, why bother to pretend you have rules in the first place?

You do Not advertise anyone because if even One single person is Falsely accused, the Integrity of the Entire system is destroyed.

Erelah wrote: »

Berserkerkitten wrote: »

Erelah wrote: »

An IP block is pretty easy, blocking VPNs are easy as well. Certain large companies block such traffic from the site. Of course could change it that logging in does not not look just for an IP address but MAC addresses and block those as well.

Except NO ONE even has a static IP so unless you wanna ban an entire IP-range (and countless innocent players along with it), it does absolutely nothing. And changing your MAC address is about as time-consuming as getting a fresh pair of socks.

Yes changing the hardware in your computer is about as time... yeah I am just not going to respond to you as you are providing misinformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAC_address
https://www.wikihow.com/Find-the-MAC-Address-of-Your-Computer
https://www.lifewire.com/introduction-to-mac-addresses-817937

Sadly, it is true, it is easier to change the MAC address than the IP address. Neither is a good basis for blocking software.

Earthewen wrote: »

I've never heard of an unjust banning to be honest when it is so black and white

It is not unheard of, and is rarely black and white. Apparently, people permanently banned have been reinstated. Sort of changes the definition of 'permanent', unless they somehow convinced ZOS that they were inn9cent.

I am not interested in the names of punished cheaters for all of the above reasons: negative attention-seeking, actual innocence, names and accounts change, etc.

I am interested in the numbers though. Is there anywhere a compiled list of the number of banned cheaters and bots? This is interesting to me so that we know ZOS is on the problem and expending resources to solve it. That is all I really need to know.

Regardless of what ZOS wants, there are lists of names that have already been made (and have been for a while now) outside of these forums and Reddit where zeni has no say in the matter. Can find plenty on discord that keep a history of these players.

therift wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I would submit that those cheating routinely don't have multiple accounts...that would be the extreme cheats who cant play any other way. Putting char names caught up on a wall of shame would affirm those turning in such things to continue to provide ZOS with this information since they don't do this, we the player are required to spot, record and turn in cheats in their game.

Considering that creating a new account takes just a few minutes, and that achieving max-CP level can be done in a few days, multiple accounts are more likely the norm for cheaters than not. The 'main' account does all the crafting and supply, while the cheat account(s) can be thrown away.

I don't know how it is on PC, but on console, I can create as many accounts as I like.

I would disagree completely. Those who cheat likely would have to buy a 'burner' account to toss away repeatedly. This kind of expense would not be something easily covered by someone with a personality that lent itself to cheating in a video game in the first place. Not only that, those unlocks for the skill lines would have to all be done again as well as earning AP and gold to purchase anything in the game required for serious play. Nah, way, way too much effort for someone who makes a choice to not play cleanly but cheat- if they were willing to do work they wouldn't have resorted to cheating in the first place.

therift wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

I would also guess that those who were doing this stuff would be discouraged as the notoriety of 'winning' would be reduced to "Lance Armstrong" levels- They do it to 'appear' to be good at the game, the reason is removed if the char names are revealed to have cheated.

On the contrary, I don't believe cheaters care much about reputation. I suspect that their chief pleasure comes from enraging other players. When the cheater's victims quit out of frustration, hopefully after sending hate mail... that is 'winning' to a cheater.

All that naming and shaming does is reward cheaters with notoriety and pleasure. Anonymous action by the game publisher denies both.

Again, I disagree completely with you. If you released the name of characters ZOS is certain were cheating it would take away any reason for cheating in the first place. The bottom line is no players who cheat tell you they are cheating....ever.

Knowing the motivations is something only one who cheats can really speak to....but I would submit if hard work and sheer effort were something they were willing to do in the first place, they would have never cheated. I think where you are coming from suggests they are 'trolls' who enjoy the irritating of others- if that were something that is likely can you give an example of someone in say sports who cheats for this reason? In academia? Maybe in anything to help me see how this could possibly the primary motivation, but as of now I just don't see it as likely.

For the last part of naming and shaming, the statement has been made already its not the @name someone could have listed for the account, but merely the char name giving the players who reported said cheat some sort of verification what they have taking the time to capture on video is worth the time spend doing so.

See ESO is pretty different in that they don't play their own game with GM's going around busting players.....they tell other players to police the game and even more they want you to not only find those cheating, but show evidence like video of them doing so with all sorts of other tidbits to assist them in what should be their function alone. You may have played another game that utilizes the players as game police before, but for me this is the only one that I have ever seen this used as primary method to catch those cheating.

eso_lags wrote: »

Thankfully there are other outlets where people can call other people out for what they are. Unfortunately the eso forums are not a place like that. Free speech does not exist here and the rules that are in place are bent or broken when the mods see fit. Its a circus. And the rules like the naming and shaming policy seem to be similar to putting your hands over your ears and yelling. Or sticking your head in the sand, to put it another way.

The Forum is private property. The property owner may apply or change rules as it sees fit. If the property owner does not like your 'speech', it may edit, delete, or eject you at will.

You have the ability to create your own private property where you may set the rules.

If you insist on no rules, there is a forum for that... if 8Chan ever makes it back online.

Kadoin wrote: »

Erelah wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Because incontrovertible proof of a cheat is not as simple as players may think, and because publishing names serves little useful purpose beyond catharsis for some.

A permanent block of a player is virtually impossible in any game if that player is committed to playing and cheating, unless ZoS implements something akin to fingerprint or retina scan login IDs. And even that could be easily bypassed with an accomplice or adequate engineering.

An IP block is pretty easy, blocking VPNs are easy as well. Certain large companies block such traffic from the site. Of course could change it that logging in does not not look just for an IP address but MAC addresses and block those as well.


Note: A MAC address is the hardware for connecting to the internet. It is more personable identifiable than your IP address. It lets companies and services know which computer in your house is using the service.

All spoofable?

It takes a couple minutes to change a MAC address in Windows 10. Console is virtually impossible unless you know how to access and alter system software without detection by Sony or Microsoft. I suppose if one knows how to cheat, then defeating system IDs is child's play.