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Gold Buyers?
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Tweek✭✭✭2 - I am grateful beyond belief for direct confirmation that people who fear harsh penalties for misdeeds avoid EVE. I pay a subscription even when I am not actively playing EVE just to support them - partly because of things like this. Thank you for validating trust in CCP's decision.
I have to admit there's a logic here. If harsh policies against people who violate TOS or commit misdeeds in a game deters people who would commit misdeed from playing, then in a way it's mission accomplished.
I think a warning is nice. Many people, particularly those new to MMOs, may not even realize buying gold is an offense. But once they're aware of it and do it anyway, I can't find much sympathy.
Due to all the gold spam some of my friends thought buying gold was okay......most of them big TES guys. They didn't know and I stand by them.
*Something must be done about this though...the zone chat spam is getting crazy.*
Edited by Tweek on April 14, 2014 5:14PM0 -
Endolith✭✭✭
Due to all the gold spam some of my friends thought buying gold was okay......most of them big TES guys. They didn't know and I stand by them.
*Something must be done about this though...the zone chat spam is getting crazy.*
Yeah, I don't find that hard to believe. Given the prevalence of gold spammers in the zone chat, I'm sure there are plenty of people who don't realize it is prohibited to buy from them.1 -
AlliN✭✭✭Due to all the gold spam some of my friend thought buying gold was okay......most of them big TES guys. They didn't know and I stand by them.
You are so full of it. Agreed to TOS without reading, did you? Your friend too?
You said you were playing mmo's for 15 years (mmmhm) and you say nonsense as this? Are TOS rules about 3rd party purchase new to yor your "friends"?most of them big TES guys
Yeah, they did not know it's against the TOS. Sure.
This discussion with you is slowly turning into "I did not install any cheats, it was my younger brother! I would never cheat!"Edited by AlliN on April 14, 2014 5:18PM1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Etchesketch wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Etchesketch wrote: »Another roflol moment. If you are going to throw around stupid words like spurious, learn to read first. I never ever said gold buyers contribute to the community. I said they don't affect me like the sellers and botters do.
Some of you are funny.
Yeah, insomnia's a ***. I mixed your post over with Tweek's and someone else's. You can call it, "The price you pay for being deputized into someone else's argument against your will." But, on that subject, this bares no resemblance to the original post you made so... "some of you are funny."
Not sure what this means, but I will just say I stick by my first statement.
If casual gamers log into this game they are going to assume that buying gold from these guys is fine, since they are "allowed" to non stop spam it. Banning people for doing something you are allowing to take place in the game is a bad bad idea.
Yeah, that wasn't well articulated in the specific post I read, but I agree.
And, Tweek... or at least Tweek's buddies, are a big part of the problem. You have people who view gold buying as normative, and get snotty when they're punished for breaking the rules, because they just want the advantage.
It's actually worse for casual players, because you have the bots actively tightening the screws on them by snapping up the low level crafting nodes, pushing new players towards the vendors, and their prices that are unsustainable without the income from crafting or bosses. It's not intentional, but for the goldsellers it's convenient. Demand goes up, and they just keep doing what they're doing.
I'm not a gold buyer......already said I made this thread to find a solution to the problem.
Three strikes could solve this problem....along with public warnings on the launcher.
Actually, you've already admitted that you've been a gold buyer in the past, in this thread.I don't buy gold(although I have in MMO's before)
And your buddies:Don't ban my buddies...just make their account have minus a ton of gold so I can watch them grind their butt off and lol all day. This would be awesome and pretty funny imo.0 -
JunkyardWolf✭✭I don't like the chat spam but can live with it, but can we please get an auto decline function for guilds! in tired of the invites from these dirtbags.0
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭2 - I am grateful beyond belief for direct confirmation that people who fear harsh penalties for misdeeds avoid EVE. I pay a subscription even when I am not actively playing EVE just to support them - partly because of things like this. Thank you for validating trust in CCP's decision.
I have to admit there's a logic here. If harsh policies against people who violate TOS or commit misdeeds in a game deters people who would commit misdeed from playing, then in a way it's mission accomplished.
I think a warning is nice. Many people, particularly those new to MMOs, may not even realize buying gold is an offense. But once they're aware of it and do it anyway, I can't find much sympathy.
Due to all the gold spam some of my friends thought buying gold was okay......most of them big TES guys. They didn't know and I stand by them.
*Something must be done about this though...the zone chat spam is getting crazy.*
Then don't defend it. Scream that you want to burn it to the ground because it's not okay. Let people know this is against the rules. Don't try to create an escape hatch for your friends. Whatever their motives.
In defending it, at any level, you're endorsing it. Yes, this is a "with us or against us" argument. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter enough to sit on the sidelines and try to protect your buddies over this.0 -
Tweek✭✭✭Due to all the gold spam some of my friend thought buying gold was okay......most of them big TES guys. They didn't know and I stand by them.
You are so full of it. Agreed to TOS without reading, did you? Your friend too?
You said you were playing mmo's for 15 years (mmmhm) and you say nonsense as this? Are TOS rules about 3rd party purchase new to yor your "friends"?most of them big TES guys
Yeah, they did not know it's against the TOS. Sure.
This discussion with you is slowly turning into "I did not install any cheats, it was my younger brother! I would never cheat!"
You read TOS?
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Tweek✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Etchesketch wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Etchesketch wrote: »Another roflol moment. If you are going to throw around stupid words like spurious, learn to read first. I never ever said gold buyers contribute to the community. I said they don't affect me like the sellers and botters do.
Some of you are funny.
Yeah, insomnia's a ***. I mixed your post over with Tweek's and someone else's. You can call it, "The price you pay for being deputized into someone else's argument against your will." But, on that subject, this bares no resemblance to the original post you made so... "some of you are funny."
Not sure what this means, but I will just say I stick by my first statement.
If casual gamers log into this game they are going to assume that buying gold from these guys is fine, since they are "allowed" to non stop spam it. Banning people for doing something you are allowing to take place in the game is a bad bad idea.
Yeah, that wasn't well articulated in the specific post I read, but I agree.
And, Tweek... or at least Tweek's buddies, are a big part of the problem. You have people who view gold buying as normative, and get snotty when they're punished for breaking the rules, because they just want the advantage.
It's actually worse for casual players, because you have the bots actively tightening the screws on them by snapping up the low level crafting nodes, pushing new players towards the vendors, and their prices that are unsustainable without the income from crafting or bosses. It's not intentional, but for the goldsellers it's convenient. Demand goes up, and they just keep doing what they're doing.
I'm not a gold buyer......already said I made this thread to find a solution to the problem.
Three strikes could solve this problem....along with public warnings on the launcher.
Actually, you've already admitted that you've been a gold buyer in the past, in this thread.I don't buy gold(although I have in MMO's before)
And your buddies:Don't ban my buddies...just make their account have minus a ton of gold so I can watch them grind their butt off and lol all day. This would be awesome and pretty funny imo.
Believe whatever you want man..I have bought gold years ago in WoW and then a bit in Runescape I think....that's it. I was like fifteen at the time.0 -
Tweek✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »2 - I am grateful beyond belief for direct confirmation that people who fear harsh penalties for misdeeds avoid EVE. I pay a subscription even when I am not actively playing EVE just to support them - partly because of things like this. Thank you for validating trust in CCP's decision.
I have to admit there's a logic here. If harsh policies against people who violate TOS or commit misdeeds in a game deters people who would commit misdeed from playing, then in a way it's mission accomplished.
I think a warning is nice. Many people, particularly those new to MMOs, may not even realize buying gold is an offense. But once they're aware of it and do it anyway, I can't find much sympathy.
Due to all the gold spam some of my friends thought buying gold was okay......most of them big TES guys. They didn't know and I stand by them.
*Something must be done about this though...the zone chat spam is getting crazy.*
Then don't defend it. Scream that you want to burn it to the ground because it's not okay. Let people know this is against the rules. Don't try to create an escape hatch for your friends. Whatever their motives.
In defending it, at any level, you're endorsing it. Yes, this is a "with us or against us" argument. Because at the end of the day, it doesn't matter enough to sit on the sidelines and try to protect your buddies over this.
Alrighty then....I'm on your side...PERMA ban the gold buyers and sellers....right meow.0 -
Endolith✭✭✭DMe neither AlliN be crazzzzy
I won't waste my time on it. A lot of it is boilerplate. If I have a specific question about what is in the TOS, I'll go back and review it later, but I'm not really worried about what's in the TOS of an MMO.
If I'm buying a car, on the other hand, I annoy the salesperson by reading the whole thing right in front of him.0 -
Saerydoth✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Also where TOR got into trouble. It managed to be both "the fastest selling MMO of all time" and "failed to meet sales expectations" at the same time. EA wanted it's own personal WoW dumping into it's pockets every month.
Yep. WoW is an outlier. I'll be surprised if any other game hits those numbers, no matter how good. It came at the right time and provided the right product. Now there are a lot of options out there and a new game is going to have a hard time climbing to something like ten million.
That's because it was EA. If something isn't a massively huge seller with massive profits, they consider it a failure and will can it. Blame corporations/stockholders/etc. Zenimax does not have that issue, because they are not a corporation, they are privately owned. This game will be very successful in its own right and be profitable for them. It won't ever hit WOW numbers, but it doesn't need to. Even if it hits 1-2 million it will still be very successful by MMO standards.
Corporation need WOW numbers because stockholders insist on maximum profit (and corporate executives can actually be sent to prison for making decisions that don't lead to the maximum profit).0 -
Tweek✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Also where TOR got into trouble. It managed to be both "the fastest selling MMO of all time" and "failed to meet sales expectations" at the same time. EA wanted it's own personal WoW dumping into it's pockets every month.
Yep. WoW is an outlier. I'll be surprised if any other game hits those numbers, no matter how good. It came at the right time and provided the right product. Now there are a lot of options out there and a new game is going to have a hard time climbing to something like ten million.
That's because it was EA. If something isn't a massively huge seller with massive profits, they consider it a failure and will can it. Blame corporations/stockholders/etc. Zenimax does not have that issue, because they are not a corporation, they are privately owned. This game will be very successful in its own right and be profitable for them. It won't ever hit WOW numbers, but it doesn't need to. Even if it hits 1-2 million it will still be very successful by MMO standards.
Corporation need WOW numbers because stockholders insist on maximum profit (and corporate executives can actually be sent to prison for making decisions that don't lead to the maximum profit).
If the game breaking progression resetting bugs are fixed soon yes, most definitely.0 -
Tweek✭✭✭I still say seriously though a three strikes system(with a launcher announcement) is best, but if perma bans work..than so be it.1
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All illegal actions in game should be punished. So if buying gold from a 3rd party is against the TOS (which i think it is) they should be punished.
The problem is that it's a lot more difficult to detect the gold buyers then the bot farmers and gold spammers.0 -
Endolith✭✭✭I still say seriously though a three strikes system(with a launcher announcement) is best, but if perma bans work..than so be it.
I don't know why anyone would oppose a strikes system. Maybe take away the gold the first time, or give negative gold. Second time, same thing plus 72-hour ban. Third time, you're done.
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You have compared gold buyers to slavers and "smelly" people...that's not very civil.
Why? Why is this not civil to point out people that RUIN the fun of other peopel becasue they are just lazy scum? Or did I hurt your feelings?Half of one of my PvP guild's has bought gold....among these people one of my good friends has as well.
You see, we are very different you and I. I would not be in a guild that has gold buyers. The same way I would not play in a team of aimbotters in BF4.
To you, it seems ok, though.
"friend", right.
Let me guess......a gold buyer stole your sweetroll?
Yes, the sweetroll was called honest gameplay.
You cannot take a joke...it was tryin to be funny lol
Don't understand the concept of friendship and fair treatment?
....imo banning gold buyers without a warning is harsh......and if I see this at all me and several of my buddies will be quitting...some have YouTube's and some of these guys refuse to buy gold like me. They will be the ones doing the complaining.
Aww back to the "threats" of reprisals for Zenimax not doing what you want. You are a real piece of work, as are your "friends" (if they are real). I really do hope you care on through with your threat so that you and your "friends" leave to ruin another gaming community with your support of Gold Sellers, Bots, Buyers, etc.The only negative experience in ESO is those that make it negative.0 -
Tweek✭✭✭I still say seriously though a three strikes system(with a launcher announcement) is best, but if perma bans work..than so be it.
I don't know why anyone would oppose a strikes system. Maybe take away the gold the first time, or give negative gold. Second time, same thing plus 72-hour ban. Third time, you're done.
This works best. The only people opposed are the kinds of people who read videogame terms of service agreements.....*ahem*.....not naming names. Honestly insta perma banning for gold buying first time without a warning is crazy in my opinion. It would also give alot of first time MMO gamers a sour taste in their mouth if they bought gold and didn't know it was against the rules, or perhaps thought they would get away with it.
So I say please implement this soon Zenimax....or start tracking any and all trades and ban suspicious looking accounts. Question and warn them not to do it again. There needs to be some activity here imo.0 -
Tweek✭✭✭Here is my fix-
Make a public declaration on the main website, and the forums about the three strikes stance for gold buyers. Next put a link to this stance on the launcher of the game(scare most gold buyers away already imo).......The system would work like so:
First Offense: You receive a warning in your in game mail and to your email so you see it, any and all gold on the account(even if you have earned more than you bought) is reset to zero(you keep anything you bought I guess if it is less then what you obtained by buying it)
Second offense: A warning that next time you're banned, a 72 hours ban, and all gold removed along with a negative 20K balance you have to earn back(I really wanna see this imo it would be hilarious)
Final offense: Instant perma ban.Edited by Tweek on April 14, 2014 5:47PM0 -
Tweek✭✭✭robacooperb16_ESO wrote: »You have compared gold buyers to slavers and "smelly" people...that's not very civil.
Why? Why is this not civil to point out people that RUIN the fun of other peopel becasue they are just lazy scum? Or did I hurt your feelings?Half of one of my PvP guild's has bought gold....among these people one of my good friends has as well.
You see, we are very different you and I. I would not be in a guild that has gold buyers. The same way I would not play in a team of aimbotters in BF4.
To you, it seems ok, though.
"friend", right.
Let me guess......a gold buyer stole your sweetroll?
Yes, the sweetroll was called honest gameplay.
You cannot take a joke...it was tryin to be funny lol
Don't understand the concept of friendship and fair treatment?
....imo banning gold buyers without a warning is harsh......and if I see this at all me and several of my buddies will be quitting...some have YouTube's and some of these guys refuse to buy gold like me. They will be the ones doing the complaining.
Aww back to the "threats" of reprisals for Zenimax not doing what you want. You are a real piece of work, as are your "friends" (if they are real). I really do hope you care on through with your threat so that you and your "friends" leave to ruin another gaming community with your support of Gold Sellers, Bots, Buyers, etc.
I do not support their garbage, and do not put words in my mouth.0 -
Starnes✭✭✭I feel that gold sellers should of course be insta-banned.
As for buyers I think for a first offence a 24 hour suspension and an account roll back to just before the gold was purchased.
Second offence, 1 week suspension and roll back, third would be a ban.1 -
Socratic✭✭✭I remember a decade ago you could sell gold on ebay. I sold 10m on legend of mri gold for £64. 5 years later I couldn't get rid of 2billion.0 -
Tweek✭✭✭Etchesketch wrote: »I like Eve but it's a completely different model for business.
If you think ESO will be happy with the sub numbers for EVE you are mistaken.
I still have my AC account on Morninghthaw, but the sub numbers for that game are not going to trip any triggers either.
When you compare games, you need to compare apples with apples.
Also to add to this buying ISK on EVE only nets you a 90 day suspension and removal of all bought ISK(if that).....selling ISK is a perma ban. Just looked it up and checked it out.
Every MMO there is...at least that I know of is harsher with sellers than buyers....this is always the case, and clearly judging by the auto-ban bots(banning sellers not buyers)...it is no different here.
Also would like to add that something DOES need to be done about the buyers....I like my three strikes system above.....negative 20K........watching buyers earning that back will be lolEdited by Tweek on April 14, 2014 5:59PM0 -
Etchesketch wrote: »Another roflol moment. If you are going to throw around stupid words like spurious, learn to read first. I never ever said gold buyers contribute to the community. I said they don't affect me like the sellers and botters do.
Some of you are funny.
They do affect you if you take part in the economy in any way, since an influx of currency into an economy always inflates prices. Makes it harder for non-gold buyers to purchase when the buyers are inflating prices.
Also supporting Gold Sellers with RMT supports other game-breaking aspects like hacks, cheats, botting, etc.
Since the OP loves using an example of what happens when bans happen to both parties in a RMT why not use EVE - RMT bans for both significantly improved the economy, eliminated many bots, and actually grew their player base. See they were smart enough to look at the big picture and see that RMTs were creating a sufficiently toxic environment (bots, pricing, etc) for new players that many didn't continueThe only negative experience in ESO is those that make it negative.0 -
Tweek✭✭✭robacooperb16_ESO wrote: »Etchesketch wrote: »Another roflol moment. If you are going to throw around stupid words like spurious, learn to read first. I never ever said gold buyers contribute to the community. I said they don't affect me like the sellers and botters do.
Some of you are funny.
They do affect you if you take part in the economy in any way, since an influx of currency into an economy always inflates prices. Makes it harder for non-gold buyers to purchase when the buyers are inflating prices.
Also supporting Gold Sellers with RMT supports other game-breaking aspects like hacks, cheats, botting, etc.
Since the OP loves using an example of what happens when bans happen to both parties in a RMT why not use EVE - RMT bans for both significantly improved the economy, eliminated many bots, and actually grew their player base. See they were smart enough to look at the big picture and see that RMTs were creating a sufficiently toxic environment (bots, pricing, etc) for new players that many didn't continue
Re posting what is directly above because you mentioned EVE-
Also to add to this buying ISK on EVE only nets you a 90 day suspension and removal of all bought ISK(if that).....selling ISK is a perma ban. Just looked it up and checked it out.
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Requielle✭✭✭I don't read the Terms of Service, and I'm a lawyer who has written a few of them
Part of the problem is that there is that "wall of text" that almost nobody reads.
It would be wise, IMAO, to have some sort of short & sweet summary of stuff (with the obvious link to the appropriate section of the ToS for people who want gory detail). Statments like "You cannot buy or sell any in-game stuff for actual currency - you can be suspended or banned if you do." and "Do not name your character anything inappropriate - depending on how inappropriate your name is, you might be forced to rename or we might suspend your account."1 -
robacooperb16_ESO wrote: »You have compared gold buyers to slavers and "smelly" people...that's not very civil.
Why? Why is this not civil to point out people that RUIN the fun of other peopel becasue they are just lazy scum? Or did I hurt your feelings?Half of one of my PvP guild's has bought gold....among these people one of my good friends has as well.
You see, we are very different you and I. I would not be in a guild that has gold buyers. The same way I would not play in a team of aimbotters in BF4.
To you, it seems ok, though.
"friend", right.
Let me guess......a gold buyer stole your sweetroll?
Yes, the sweetroll was called honest gameplay.
You cannot take a joke...it was tryin to be funny lol
Don't understand the concept of friendship and fair treatment?
....imo banning gold buyers without a warning is harsh......and if I see this at all me and several of my buddies will be quitting...some have YouTube's and some of these guys refuse to buy gold like me. They will be the ones doing the complaining.
Aww back to the "threats" of reprisals for Zenimax not doing what you want. You are a real piece of work, as are your "friends" (if they are real). I really do hope you care on through with your threat so that you and your "friends" leave to ruin another gaming community with your support of Gold Sellers, Bots, Buyers, etc.
I do not support their garbage, and do not put words in my mouth.
If you are supporting or defending Gold Buyers you are by extension supporting everything that goes with it: the Gold Selling spam, the bots, hacks, exploits, etc.The only negative experience in ESO is those that make it negative.1 -
It all comes down to people wanting all the items NOW and not wanting to work for them. It is cheating and creates havoc on the economy of any MMO game. There is no excuse, cheating is cheating.
Not only is it cheating, it is interrupting others game play that choose to play without cheating. They have to continue to deal with spam in mail, spam in chat, gold selling guilds spamming invites, resource bots, bots camping bosses, and any other exploit they can find. It is almost griefing the players that aren't cheating and denying them the chance to play the game and enjoy all aspects of that game.
So, gold buyers need to be cut off. I say slap them with a perma ban or make their gold -500k and let them work off their debt for cheating. If they don't like it then I would recommend they don't buy gold and ruin everyone else's game just because they can't have everything RIGHT NOW.
I don't even see the reason why there is a discussion. And the if you ban gold buyers the game will go F2p...Well it is heading there now with all this stuff going on and the gold sellers adding another huge problem. So..
Just saying.Edited by thegamekittenub17_ESO on April 14, 2014 6:47PM0