Magsorc feedback on PTS Patch Notes v5.1.4

TheHsN · August 2019

I play this game since april 4 2014 and beta also...They just destroy the fun of SORCERER

Not enough DPS
Not enough Sustain
Not a good spamable own skill
Shields are gone to useless
it lost its own stun
Not enough self Heal

it a barely a class

LiquidPony · August 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think Sorcs will make it through this one. Pets took a hit, which IMO makes them not worth using any longer (which also means dropping Prey for Haunting). Shields will be a little better (in PVE) which makes up for losing the Matriarch heal.

As for Liquid Lightning, it may not be worth using on some of the dummy parses I’ve been seeing, but in dungeons and trials it’s definitely still good. Specifically the Lightning Flood morph provides a lot of synergies (important for Alkosh and Lokke) and has a large enough area to help with trash and boss adds, while being only slightly weaker than single target DoTs.

In Scalebreaker we’re gaining a lot, with the new Soul Trap, Scalding Rune, Entropy, and Reach. Sure things will be a little more generic between classes, but that’s not the end of the world.

... unless you play ESO as a RPG game and where class identity and lore matters.

I totally don't care about some general copy pasta faceless ability that makes me identical to 99% of the other players.

I rolled a magsorc, not a "generic DPS template".

Then what are you complaining about. None of the changes matter if you don't play at a high level.

So what, just because I want the RPG portion of a MMO means I am meant to sit at Deshaan roleplaying in funny dress?

I do hm vMOL, hm vHOF, vCR / vAS +2 and currently working on hm vSS.

High level enough?

if that is true, then you are not using power surge anyways. you know that pots are the best way to get the buff. you know you will have healers that will heal you.

It might sound weird to you, but 2 trials of 3 hours a week leave "just" 15 hours or so to do other content. One of the things I love the most is soloing hard world bosses and instances (to keep me trained). Come next patch, pets are gone for that. Self healing will suck. Liquid lightning nerfed.
Ah yes, in exchange for my class getting abused, I get some generic second rate morph of a non class ability that I have to refresh every 10 seconds.

Major Sorcery on Structured Entropy/Degeneration lasts for 24 seconds.

You can still run a build nearly identical to last patch. Tormentor + Scamp, Daedric Prey, Frags, Lightning Flood, Storm Atro, Elemental Weapon, etc. Only change I make on a parse is to drop Trap for Degeneration (sucks to lose Minor Force but the sustain and damage of Degeneration is too good to pass up IMO). Still hits around 90k.

The Tormentor does ~6k DPS. Lightning Flood does ~6k DPS. The Scamp does 8-10k DPS. Storm Atro does ~8k DPS. Daedric Prey does 5k DPS.

You can take the 1-pet build that the big 95-97k parses are hitting and swap out Flame Reach for Lightning Flood and only lose ~1k single target, but gain a huge amount of cleave and a synergy.

Sorcs are totally fine. Much ado about nothing.

I do think that the base Surge skill should grant both Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. But other than that, don't really see the big deal.

You don't have to swap to the new "meta" of Soul Trap/Scalding Rune/Flame Reach/Degeneration. You can still do plenty of DPS to complete any content in the game using almost exactly the same builds that were viable in Elsweyr. It is worth noting that the new meta builds are generally doing more DPS across the board for magicka builds, though. With all these newly buffed single-target DoTs, you've got most magicka specs creeping up towards 100k DPS, which in a lot of cases is a giant leap from Elsweyr.

So if you want to run the new, great, your DPS went up quite a bit. If not, no big deal, you're still doing ~90k DPS on the dummy and totally fine to run any content.

Tannus15 · August 2019

@LiquidPony That's literally what I'm planning to do.
I've lost "some" dps, but it's not a huge deal.

Mostly losing the matriarch heal hurts. It makes it feel like I "need" to run surge.
I'm also looking at running force pulse instead of ele weapon to help with the cleave loss.

Vahrokh · August 2019

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think Sorcs will make it through this one. Pets took a hit, which IMO makes them not worth using any longer (which also means dropping Prey for Haunting). Shields will be a little better (in PVE) which makes up for losing the Matriarch heal.

As for Liquid Lightning, it may not be worth using on some of the dummy parses I’ve been seeing, but in dungeons and trials it’s definitely still good. Specifically the Lightning Flood morph provides a lot of synergies (important for Alkosh and Lokke) and has a large enough area to help with trash and boss adds, while being only slightly weaker than single target DoTs.

In Scalebreaker we’re gaining a lot, with the new Soul Trap, Scalding Rune, Entropy, and Reach. Sure things will be a little more generic between classes, but that’s not the end of the world.

... unless you play ESO as a RPG game and where class identity and lore matters.

I totally don't care about some general copy pasta faceless ability that makes me identical to 99% of the other players.

I rolled a magsorc, not a "generic DPS template".

Then what are you complaining about. None of the changes matter if you don't play at a high level.

So what, just because I want the RPG portion of a MMO means I am meant to sit at Deshaan roleplaying in funny dress?

I do hm vMOL, hm vHOF, vCR / vAS +2 and currently working on hm vSS.

High level enough?

if that is true, then you are not using power surge anyways. you know that pots are the best way to get the buff. you know you will have healers that will heal you.

It might sound weird to you, but 2 trials of 3 hours a week leave "just" 15 hours or so to do other content. One of the things I love the most is soloing hard world bosses and instances (to keep me trained). Come next patch, pets are gone for that. Self healing will suck. Liquid lightning nerfed.
Ah yes, in exchange for my class getting abused, I get some generic second rate morph of a non class ability that I have to refresh every 10 seconds.

Liquid Lightning and morphs are still great abilities that are near the top of a dps parse, they give a Synergy for your group that will put the overall damage per cast higher then using any other single target dot and does aoe damage. Ask DK's how they feel about Ash Cloud being completely useless with no synergy, but I digress.

Liquid Lightning was recently increased to 12s from 10s. The 10s didn't line up with Blockade so you were usually wasting 2 ticks anyway. Lightning Flood now lasts 8s instead of 6s and does +20% dmg? So with the buffs/nerfs they probably even out roughly from before Elsweyr. If you really think losing a synergy for a single target dot is worth it, then you're focusing too hard on pushing some DPS parse number without thinking about your group.

It's funny that every mag spec is freaking out about using more universal skills as if Stam hasn't been complaining about it for years, doesn't make it okay, but funny nonetheless.

This isn't to downplay the nerf to Bird becoming next to worthless. I can agree on that. It needed a nerf after the past 2 patches of buffs, but they went too far.

- Lightning Flood had its uses and its builds (I used it in the past) and Liquid had its other uses and builds: namely being the "mainstay" of a bunch of mainstream builds.
With the nerf, LF becomes LL and LL becomes... what? A dust-taker? Because that's what is good for, now. Nobody will take a nerfed version of something else that does the same plus a large damage circle.

- Two wrongs don't make one right. So, after they majorly screwed up stamsorcs and stam specs diversity, you justify it being done on everyone else?

- It would need a nerf ONLY if magsorcs would have been that unique snowflake parsing like stamblades due to birdie being blatantly OP. But they didn't. Actually, it's only thanks to birdie that magsorcs remained anywhere in the realm of viable trial DPS. Having a bit of versatility was the reason why my guilds make me do vCR portals, vHOF top room and so on. Take that away, take lightning damage goodness and what you have is a sad copycat of a magblade. Who the F wants to play a magblade copycat, when there is the real thing?

Vahrokh · August 2019

LiquidPony wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think Sorcs will make it through this one. Pets took a hit, which IMO makes them not worth using any longer (which also means dropping Prey for Haunting). Shields will be a little better (in PVE) which makes up for losing the Matriarch heal.

As for Liquid Lightning, it may not be worth using on some of the dummy parses I’ve been seeing, but in dungeons and trials it’s definitely still good. Specifically the Lightning Flood morph provides a lot of synergies (important for Alkosh and Lokke) and has a large enough area to help with trash and boss adds, while being only slightly weaker than single target DoTs.

In Scalebreaker we’re gaining a lot, with the new Soul Trap, Scalding Rune, Entropy, and Reach. Sure things will be a little more generic between classes, but that’s not the end of the world.

... unless you play ESO as a RPG game and where class identity and lore matters.

I totally don't care about some general copy pasta faceless ability that makes me identical to 99% of the other players.

I rolled a magsorc, not a "generic DPS template".

Then what are you complaining about. None of the changes matter if you don't play at a high level.

So what, just because I want the RPG portion of a MMO means I am meant to sit at Deshaan roleplaying in funny dress?

I do hm vMOL, hm vHOF, vCR / vAS +2 and currently working on hm vSS.

High level enough?

if that is true, then you are not using power surge anyways. you know that pots are the best way to get the buff. you know you will have healers that will heal you.

It might sound weird to you, but 2 trials of 3 hours a week leave "just" 15 hours or so to do other content. One of the things I love the most is soloing hard world bosses and instances (to keep me trained). Come next patch, pets are gone for that. Self healing will suck. Liquid lightning nerfed.
Ah yes, in exchange for my class getting abused, I get some generic second rate morph of a non class ability that I have to refresh every 10 seconds.

Major Sorcery on Structured Entropy/Degeneration lasts for 24 seconds.

You can still run a build nearly identical to last patch. Tormentor + Scamp, Daedric Prey, Frags, Lightning Flood, Storm Atro, Elemental Weapon, etc. Only change I make on a parse is to drop Trap for Degeneration (sucks to lose Minor Force but the sustain and damage of Degeneration is too good to pass up IMO). Still hits around 90k.

The Tormentor does ~6k DPS. Lightning Flood does ~6k DPS. The Scamp does 8-10k DPS. Storm Atro does ~8k DPS. Daedric Prey does 5k DPS.

You can take the 1-pet build that the big 95-97k parses are hitting and swap out Flame Reach for Lightning Flood and only lose ~1k single target, but gain a huge amount of cleave and a synergy.

Sorcs are totally fine. Much ado about nothing.

I do think that the base Surge skill should grant both Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. But other than that, don't really see the big deal.

You don't have to swap to the new "meta" of Soul Trap/Scalding Rune/Flame Reach/Degeneration. You can still do plenty of DPS to complete any content in the game using almost exactly the same builds that were viable in Elsweyr. It is worth noting that the new meta builds are generally doing more DPS across the board for magicka builds, though. With all these newly buffed single-target DoTs, you've got most magicka specs creeping up towards 100k DPS, which in a lot of cases is a giant leap from Elsweyr.

So if you want to run the new, great, your DPS went up quite a bit. If not, no big deal, you're still doing ~90k DPS on the dummy and totally fine to run any content.

Yes, I could keep today's build and apply to a vSO guild.

Because the better ones certainly don't accept excuses or less-than-optimal builds.

The build you state is the same crapola everybody else has (hence the destruction of class diversity).
CRAPOLA. There's more in a MMORPG than big digits DPS numbers floating on the screen.

I've had FUN playing THE SUMMONER class. While being viable in hm vMOL / hm vHOF etc.

I've felt USEFUL at running mechanics. Magsorc with matron? Awesome at portals and whatever.

Who cares about the totally pointless tormentor, it's just another crapola DPS number adding up (and badly at that).

But hey, now I can slot <enter totally bland and standard skill here> and play like an awesome bland and standard class! SO FUN!!!!

universal_wrath · August 2019

Vermethys wrote: »

I don't know why people act as though the sky is falling during each PTS cycle. The new patch will drop in a few days, nigh everyone will adapt by changing a couple of skills and/or set pieces and continue doing the content they enjoy. This sort of drastic, short-span rebalance has been happening for years now, we're all bound to get used to it by now.

MagSorcs lost Major Sorcery through the Power Surge change; use Spell Power Potions or the cheap Alliance Spell Power pots, slot Entropy (which is getting buffed), or use Rattlecage (in PvP). I lost the source of Major Defile on my PvP builds (Reverb nerf), and I already switched to a set that applies Major Defile and started using a Disease glyph. There are always multiple ways to adapt to changes or nerfs in this game. Classes will still be different, even if they share a few abilities -- Stamina classes literally had the same back bar in PvE for years, yet most of them felt different to play from one another; Magicka, I believe, is now in a similar spot.

See the problem is that you never had major defile in you class toolkit. If you play NB now, everyone else have access to fear and ambush. DK wings were criple and corrive armor is now replaced by onslought that is far superior to it. Next patch you see DK streak with out penalty and stam sorc use leaps with 20%more dmg or whatever.

Class defining abilities even if they were available to everyone, they should not by any means inferior in any way, shape or for to their counterpart generic skills.

I do understand that there are some unique skills in the game that are generic but still powerful, but they are situational and not compareable to class skills, like proxy det arguebly strongest dmg skill in the game, weak in 1v1 situation and outshine any dmg skill in 1vx situatuon. DBOS only get most of it's dmg against werewolfs, undead, and vampires. Meteor, hard hiting and strong aoe, delay arrival(predictable) this make it easy to block and move from aoe spot, strong if you pair ir with unblockable stun.

Heymexa · August 2019

I completely agree with the author of the topic.

Hi Mr. Wrobel! You have great followers. Now they have finally destroyed the Sorcerer class.

Uppercut - LL Unnecessary Ability.
Execut - Twinlight -69 = Unnecessary Ability

Surge - Fatality 5.1.4

Go to stamina? NO

LiquidPony · August 2019

Vahrokh wrote: »

LiquidPony wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I think Sorcs will make it through this one. Pets took a hit, which IMO makes them not worth using any longer (which also means dropping Prey for Haunting). Shields will be a little better (in PVE) which makes up for losing the Matriarch heal.

As for Liquid Lightning, it may not be worth using on some of the dummy parses I’ve been seeing, but in dungeons and trials it’s definitely still good. Specifically the Lightning Flood morph provides a lot of synergies (important for Alkosh and Lokke) and has a large enough area to help with trash and boss adds, while being only slightly weaker than single target DoTs.

In Scalebreaker we’re gaining a lot, with the new Soul Trap, Scalding Rune, Entropy, and Reach. Sure things will be a little more generic between classes, but that’s not the end of the world.

... unless you play ESO as a RPG game and where class identity and lore matters.

I totally don't care about some general copy pasta faceless ability that makes me identical to 99% of the other players.

I rolled a magsorc, not a "generic DPS template".

Then what are you complaining about. None of the changes matter if you don't play at a high level.

So what, just because I want the RPG portion of a MMO means I am meant to sit at Deshaan roleplaying in funny dress?

I do hm vMOL, hm vHOF, vCR / vAS +2 and currently working on hm vSS.

High level enough?

if that is true, then you are not using power surge anyways. you know that pots are the best way to get the buff. you know you will have healers that will heal you.

It might sound weird to you, but 2 trials of 3 hours a week leave "just" 15 hours or so to do other content. One of the things I love the most is soloing hard world bosses and instances (to keep me trained). Come next patch, pets are gone for that. Self healing will suck. Liquid lightning nerfed.
Ah yes, in exchange for my class getting abused, I get some generic second rate morph of a non class ability that I have to refresh every 10 seconds.

Major Sorcery on Structured Entropy/Degeneration lasts for 24 seconds.

You can still run a build nearly identical to last patch. Tormentor + Scamp, Daedric Prey, Frags, Lightning Flood, Storm Atro, Elemental Weapon, etc. Only change I make on a parse is to drop Trap for Degeneration (sucks to lose Minor Force but the sustain and damage of Degeneration is too good to pass up IMO). Still hits around 90k.

The Tormentor does ~6k DPS. Lightning Flood does ~6k DPS. The Scamp does 8-10k DPS. Storm Atro does ~8k DPS. Daedric Prey does 5k DPS.

You can take the 1-pet build that the big 95-97k parses are hitting and swap out Flame Reach for Lightning Flood and only lose ~1k single target, but gain a huge amount of cleave and a synergy.

Sorcs are totally fine. Much ado about nothing.

I do think that the base Surge skill should grant both Major Sorcery and Major Brutality. But other than that, don't really see the big deal.

You don't have to swap to the new "meta" of Soul Trap/Scalding Rune/Flame Reach/Degeneration. You can still do plenty of DPS to complete any content in the game using almost exactly the same builds that were viable in Elsweyr. It is worth noting that the new meta builds are generally doing more DPS across the board for magicka builds, though. With all these newly buffed single-target DoTs, you've got most magicka specs creeping up towards 100k DPS, which in a lot of cases is a giant leap from Elsweyr.

So if you want to run the new, great, your DPS went up quite a bit. If not, no big deal, you're still doing ~90k DPS on the dummy and totally fine to run any content.

Yes, I could keep today's build and apply to a vSO guild.

Because the better ones certainly don't accept excuses or less-than-optimal builds.

The build you state is the same crapola everybody else has (hence the destruction of class diversity).
CRAPOLA. There's more in a MMORPG than big digits DPS numbers floating on the screen.

I've had FUN playing THE SUMMONER class. While being viable in hm vMOL / hm vHOF etc.

I've felt USEFUL at running mechanics. Magsorc with matron? Awesome at portals and whatever.

Who cares about the totally pointless tormentor, it's just another crapola DPS number adding up (and badly at that).

But hey, now I can slot <enter totally bland and standard skill here> and play like an awesome bland and standard class! SO FUN!!!!

If you're "maining" magsorc in raid, you clearly don't care about optimal builds. Magsorcs haven't been optimal in anything but minitrials since Homestead.

You have to make a choice: you can "main" a class and play what and how you want and play with groups that are OK with that, or you can choose to run with groups that are pushing harder content or higher scores who, as you say, "don't accept less-than-optimal-builds." Pick one. Your argument makes no sense.

Magsorcs will still be totally viable for all content, whether you want to use 1 pet or 2 pets or none at all, the new DoT builds or the old spammable builds. They certainly aren't "optimal" and haven't been for ages. Nothing else is going to be close to "optimal" while Necros have a monopoly on a massive group buff on their DPS ulti and out-DPS everything else.

kalunte · August 2019

just slot structured entropy, you'll have major sorcery + DoT + Hot (which does not require you to crit or whatever). (+ interesting passives from mage's guild)

Vigawatt · August 2019

I will continue to use two pets. I went from level 1 to cp 810 with those companions so I knew from the outset I wanted to keep them. I experimented in PTS and I'm satisfied with how it came out. I can't post the combat metrics right now because I'm not at my home computer.

I slotted degeneration, unstable wall, crystal frags, elemental drain, destructive reach, daedric prey, volatile familiar, and twilight. I did tests on a 6 mil dummy self buffed with spell crit pots. First I slotted tormentor and got 45k on the 6 mil dummy. Then I slotted matriarch and got 44k. The difference was that with the magicka to cast the tormentor ability I had to heavy attack every other rotation. Without having to cast that, my sustain was better and I could fit in more light attacks so the difference only ended up being 1k.

Sustain and dps will be worse if I have to use matriarch to heal, but that's ok for me. There will either be a healer in my group or in solo play I'm not going to need the extra few thousand dps. This probably doesn't sound great to a lot of people, but I couldn't hit 50k dps on live with a pet sorc build anyway so 44k for me sounds great.

Saril_Durzam · August 2019

The real issue with sorcs wont be DPS, it will be more or less the same. Sustain wont be better, which is a real issue for Sorcs, and survability will be much worse. No good self-heals, no shields... Glass cannon at its finest. Only real heal would be Matriarch and that would hurt DPS. Real hit will be on vMA.

Its not destroying the class. Its just less appealing and still more far from the top. Which that goes against balance. Pve wise, that is.

ZOS_Ragnar · August 2019

We have closed this thread in accordance with our policy on goodbye/quitting threads.