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Any reason why ESO Nords sound like complete imbeciles?
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Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »Once again Varanis is correct. Even more so, due to the fact that Ysmir is a title, or a pseudo-deity of the Nordic pantheon, much like Shor/Shezarr comes in many aspects/avatars/incarnations as well. Ysmir is the title or divinity bestowed to the Nordic aspect of Talos, which is why he is called Ysmir, Dragon of the North by both the Greybeards and by several other NPCs and sourcebooks in the Skyrim game. A title that is also bestowed upon Wulfharth and the Last Dragonborn. The Nords are the only people who have their own aspect of the god Talos, no other race of Tamriel have a racial aspect of the god, and thus clearly Talos is a god with close ties to especially the Nordic race of all the races of Tamriel (and in many versions, also being a Nord or Atmoran himself before ascending).
And as Varanis points out, the Nords in Skyrim clearly see Talos as an important deity worthy of worship.
So once again I'm afraid you're the only one left with no sources. Your claim that "Talos the deity has never been part of Nord culture" is absurd and laughable, considering that half the people of Skyrim basically went to civil war over their deity not being allowed anymore. It's like I said, you come here to these threads with your own twisted personal beliefs of the TES lore and expect everyone else to follow suit, even when you're arguing against established lore.
Ysmir the title isn't Ysmir the god. Ysmir is Tiber Septim's Nordic aspect. Ysmir the title is the thing bestowed on every Dragonborn who chooses to follow the guidance of the Greybeards. There's a key difference there.
The reason there's a Nordic aspect of Talos is because Talos' Nordic aspect became a thing when the Greybeards told him his prophecy. You know, back when the Nords still had the honor and respect for the Greybeards to respect their ways.
I already told you how the Nords worshipping an Imperial Deity does not make said deity Nordic. Need I bring up my Roman comparisons once again?
Your ridiculous "comparison" doesn't become any more true the more you repeat it. And that fact that you're harping on about this issue just proves how obstinate you really are. Varanis and I both proved you wrong, deal with it.
And why is that comparison invalid then? Care to elaborate? Or can't you elaborate? Because it's spot-on?
Maybe if you actually bothered reading what Aranis and I wrote in our posts, instead of simply repeating your own drivel in every reply. But it's like talking to a wall, and I'm not that masochistic, so enjoy talking to yourself.
No, you just can't bring up a counter-argument, hence why you've fallen to insults from day one.2 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭Scythe_Mercer wrote: »Scythe_Mercer wrote: »*cough* just gonna leave this here Incase -certain- people here just -claim- to know something without any research whatsoever and thinks this deity is solely of one race. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim
Talos is just one race. Anything else is fanfic. What his race is is up to debate, but he's most likely either Breton or Imperial.
Now is that fact or your personal opinion, seems to me you didn’t read jack squat here pal :^) Edit: Actually hol up his race is kiiinda up for debate, most of it is leading towards being born in Atmora tho :thinking:
Him being born on Atmora is false since his date of birth was in the Second Era while the last shipment from Atmora arrived in the first.
Yes, his race is up to debate. But it was only one race. That is a fact. And that race is most likely either Imperial or Breton.1 -
cmetzger93✭✭✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »
Considering that Skyrim will probably be a chapter in ESO in the near future, can we have justice for the Nords, and please allow them to speak like normal people, just like Bretons and Imperials and Redguards, and just like they do in the actual game Skyrim. Having them sound like cavemen as they do in ESO is downright lore breaking, and not at all in line with former TES games, nor the incredibly rich and detailed history and culture of Nords ever since their emergence from the continent of Atmora.
Not all do. Lyrics Titanborn doesn’t. It depends how you were raised. Most Nords are known to be distrustful of magic and heavy drinkers to cope with their poor climate in Skyrim. They are not a scholarly people and their thick accents don’t lend them any credibility either.Edited by cmetzger93 on July 31, 2019 12:09PM2 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@VaranisArano
The Nords of Skyrim follow the ways of the Imperials. Not the ways of the Nords. Nordic ''culture'' is practically extinct. The Nords following a culture which isn't theirs doesn't magically change that culture; it changes the Nords.
The things I've claimed are based on what ESO, the Pocket Guides, and years of Bethesda's lore-works show us. It is no mere coincidence that the Stormcloaks claim to preserve the way of life of the Nords, while spitting on Nord culture.
You just went and even proved my very point when you brought in the Greeks. The elements the Romans took but not adapted didn't become ''Roman''. The Roman Pantheon was greatly inspired by the Greeks, that is correct... But it was different, hence why it was Roman, and not Greek. Much like how the Nords had their own Pantheon. Or perhaps, in this case, how the Imperials had their own. Imperial Pantheon, combination of Aldmer and Nord, remember? It was adapted and changed.
Why is it so hard to admit the Nords, or rather, Stormcloaks, don't follow their own ways, but rather those of the Empire before the Great War?
If you don't want to continue, that's fine, but I'd really recommend you check how cultures work. Just because a society changes to do something else doesn't mean that ''something'' is part of their culture.
I see.
You misjudge Ulfric because you willfully misunderstand what he means when he and the Stormcloaks talk about preserving and defending Nord culture.
You want that to mean the "historic nord pantheon and the pre-Imperial ways of the Nords." And you call Ulfric a hypocrite and spitting on his culture when he doesnt defend your definition.
In contrast, what Ulfric means, and what everyone else in the game of Skyrim understands that he means, and what everyone in Skyrim agrees he's doing his best to do is this:
Ulfric is defending current Nord culture (pre-White Gold Concordat Nord culture) from the Thalmor and the Imperials who want to eradicate it.
By the standards of what he actually means - not what you want him to mean- Ulfric is not spitting on his culture and no one in Skyrim thinks he is.
You call Ulfric a hypocrite only because you substitute your own definition of "Nord Culture" in place of the current 4E 200 Nord Culture Ulfric and every Nord in Skyrim understands him to mean.
No one in Skyrim uses your definition, so I think its fair to judge Ulfric on the terms of Skyrim and its Nords. By those standards, not yours, he's defending his Nord Culture.5 -
Scythe_Mercer✭✭✭Scythe_Mercer wrote: »Scythe_Mercer wrote: »*cough* just gonna leave this here Incase -certain- people here just -claim- to know something without any research whatsoever and thinks this deity is solely of one race. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim
Talos is just one race. Anything else is fanfic. What his race is is up to debate, but he's most likely either Breton or Imperial.
Now is that fact or your personal opinion, seems to me you didn’t read jack squat here pal :^) Edit: Actually hol up his race is kiiinda up for debate, most of it is leading towards being born in Atmora tho :thinking:
Him being born on Atmora is false since his date of birth was in the Second Era while the last shipment from Atmora arrived in the first.
Yes, his race is up to debate. But it was only one race. That is a fact. And that race is most likely either Imperial or Breton.
It’s really unknown at this point but going around claiming it’s this or that really is showing a lot of red flags here. Eh Nords aren’t my number 1 so really people can debate them all they want I really care about 3 races anyway. :shrug:1 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »@VaranisArano
The Nords of Skyrim follow the ways of the Imperials. Not the ways of the Nords. Nordic ''culture'' is practically extinct. The Nords following a culture which isn't theirs doesn't magically change that culture; it changes the Nords.
The things I've claimed are based on what ESO, the Pocket Guides, and years of Bethesda's lore-works show us. It is no mere coincidence that the Stormcloaks claim to preserve the way of life of the Nords, while spitting on Nord culture.
You just went and even proved my very point when you brought in the Greeks. The elements the Romans took but not adapted didn't become ''Roman''. The Roman Pantheon was greatly inspired by the Greeks, that is correct... But it was different, hence why it was Roman, and not Greek. Much like how the Nords had their own Pantheon. Or perhaps, in this case, how the Imperials had their own. Imperial Pantheon, combination of Aldmer and Nord, remember? It was adapted and changed.
Why is it so hard to admit the Nords, or rather, Stormcloaks, don't follow their own ways, but rather those of the Empire before the Great War?
If you don't want to continue, that's fine, but I'd really recommend you check how cultures work. Just because a society changes to do something else doesn't mean that ''something'' is part of their culture.
I see.
You misjudge Ulfric because you willfully misunderstand what he means when he and the Stormcloaks talk about preserving and defending Nord culture.
You want that to mean the "historic nord pantheon and the pre-Imperial ways of the Nords." And you call Ulfric a hypocrite and spitting on his culture when he doesnt defend your definition.
In contrast, what Ulfric means, and what everyone else in the game of Skyrim understands that he means, and what everyone in Skyrim agrees he's doing his best to do is this:
Ulfric is defending current Nord culture (pre-White Gold Concordat Nord culture) from the Thalmor and the Imperials who want to eradicate it.
By the standards of what he actually means - not what you want him to mean- Ulfric is not spitting on his culture and no one in Skyrim thinks he is.
You call Ulfric a hypocrite only because you substitute your own definition of "Nord Culture" in place of the current 4E 200 Nord Culture Ulfric and every Nord in Skyrim understands him to mean.
No one in Skyrim uses your definition, so I think its fair to judge Ulfric on the terms of Skyrim and its Nords. By those standards, not yours, he's defending his Nord Culture.
In other words, you just admit he defends the culture of the Colovians pre-Concordat, as the Nords completely tossed their own ways out the window and adapted to those of the Colovians. Except for a handful of things which are still in place... Which Ulfric still disrespects... Like damning the Jarls and the Moot... Or abusing the Way of the Voice... Then again, I suppose those aren't Nord culture, after all, Ulfric doesn't defend it.... /s
Suit yourself.Edited by Bruccius on July 31, 2019 6:17PM1 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭Scythe_Mercer wrote: »Scythe_Mercer wrote: »Scythe_Mercer wrote: »*cough* just gonna leave this here Incase -certain- people here just -claim- to know something without any research whatsoever and thinks this deity is solely of one race. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim
Talos is just one race. Anything else is fanfic. What his race is is up to debate, but he's most likely either Breton or Imperial.
Now is that fact or your personal opinion, seems to me you didn’t read jack squat here pal :^) Edit: Actually hol up his race is kiiinda up for debate, most of it is leading towards being born in Atmora tho :thinking:
Him being born on Atmora is false since his date of birth was in the Second Era while the last shipment from Atmora arrived in the first.
Yes, his race is up to debate. But it was only one race. That is a fact. And that race is most likely either Imperial or Breton.
It’s really unknown at this point but going around claiming it’s this or that really is showing a lot of red flags here. Eh Nords aren’t my number 1 so really people can debate them all they want I really care about 3 races anyway. :shrug:
No, it isn't ''unknown at this point''. Someone can't be two races in Tamriel; that's not a thing. Either you're one race, or you're another. That's how it works in Tamriel; you take on the race of your mother.1 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Scythe_Mercer wrote: »Scythe_Mercer wrote: »Scythe_Mercer wrote: »*cough* just gonna leave this here Incase -certain- people here just -claim- to know something without any research whatsoever and thinks this deity is solely of one race. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim
Talos is just one race. Anything else is fanfic. What his race is is up to debate, but he's most likely either Breton or Imperial.
Now is that fact or your personal opinion, seems to me you didn’t read jack squat here pal :^) Edit: Actually hol up his race is kiiinda up for debate, most of it is leading towards being born in Atmora tho :thinking:
Him being born on Atmora is false since his date of birth was in the Second Era while the last shipment from Atmora arrived in the first.
Yes, his race is up to debate. But it was only one race. That is a fact. And that race is most likely either Imperial or Breton.
It’s really unknown at this point but going around claiming it’s this or that really is showing a lot of red flags here. Eh Nords aren’t my number 1 so really people can debate them all they want I really care about 3 races anyway. :shrug:
No, it isn't ''unknown at this point''. Someone can't be two races in Tamriel; that's not a thing. Either you're one race, or you're another. That's how it works in Tamriel; you take on the race of your mother.
The worst kind of debaters aren't the ones who are completely ignorant, the worst kind are the ones who know a little, and then prance around the courtyard yelling to the left and right, pretending they know absolutely everything.4 -
MasterSpatula✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
No, it isn't ''unknown at this point''. Someone can't be two races in Tamriel; that's not a thing. Either you're one race, or you're another. That's how it works in Tamriel; you take on the race of your mother.
Then how are Bretons even a thing?"A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle5 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have seen plenty of Nord npcs who speak "normal" and are not some comic relief imbeciles. Think the majority of the npcs I genuinely liked when I did the Pact zones, was actually Nords. Also got to see more of their culture and lore tidbits than I thought I would, which was nice. So I'm not really seeing what you are seeing.
Sure, there was some comic relief characters but those can be found almost everywhere and they are Nords. They are not known for sneering like dunmer.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!2 -
JadonSky✭✭✭✭✭The only voice that really bothered me was the Kings. I expected a deep viking sounding voice. I think he sounds kinda wimpy but that may just be me lol.
Also I do feel like most the EP quest line was not well put together and you don't really grow a great relationship with any of the NPC's. Unlike DC and AD where you have Darien/ Gabrielle and Raz.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »@VaranisArano
The Nords of Skyrim follow the ways of the Imperials. Not the ways of the Nords. Nordic ''culture'' is practically extinct. The Nords following a culture which isn't theirs doesn't magically change that culture; it changes the Nords.
The things I've claimed are based on what ESO, the Pocket Guides, and years of Bethesda's lore-works show us. It is no mere coincidence that the Stormcloaks claim to preserve the way of life of the Nords, while spitting on Nord culture.
You just went and even proved my very point when you brought in the Greeks. The elements the Romans took but not adapted didn't become ''Roman''. The Roman Pantheon was greatly inspired by the Greeks, that is correct... But it was different, hence why it was Roman, and not Greek. Much like how the Nords had their own Pantheon. Or perhaps, in this case, how the Imperials had their own. Imperial Pantheon, combination of Aldmer and Nord, remember? It was adapted and changed.
Why is it so hard to admit the Nords, or rather, Stormcloaks, don't follow their own ways, but rather those of the Empire before the Great War?
If you don't want to continue, that's fine, but I'd really recommend you check how cultures work. Just because a society changes to do something else doesn't mean that ''something'' is part of their culture.
I see.
You misjudge Ulfric because you willfully misunderstand what he means when he and the Stormcloaks talk about preserving and defending Nord culture.
You want that to mean the "historic nord pantheon and the pre-Imperial ways of the Nords." And you call Ulfric a hypocrite and spitting on his culture when he doesnt defend your definition.
In contrast, what Ulfric means, and what everyone else in the game of Skyrim understands that he means, and what everyone in Skyrim agrees he's doing his best to do is this:
Ulfric is defending current Nord culture (pre-White Gold Concordat Nord culture) from the Thalmor and the Imperials who want to eradicate it.
By the standards of what he actually means - not what you want him to mean- Ulfric is not spitting on his culture and no one in Skyrim thinks he is.
You call Ulfric a hypocrite only because you substitute your own definition of "Nord Culture" in place of the current 4E 200 Nord Culture Ulfric and every Nord in Skyrim understands him to mean.
No one in Skyrim uses your definition, so I think its fair to judge Ulfric on the terms of Skyrim and its Nords. By those standards, not yours, he's defending his Nord Culture.
In other words, you just admit he defends the culture of the Colovians pre-Concordat, as the Nords completely tossed their own ways out the window and adapted to those of the Colovians. Except for a handful of things which are still in place... Which Ulfric still disrespects... Like damning the Jarls and the Moot... Or abusing the Way of the Voice... Then again, I suppose those aren't Nord culture, after all, Ulfric doesn't defend it.... /s
Suit yourself.
Based on your definition of "The only True Nord Culture is the one that's pre-Talos", you are right. Ulfric is spitting on your definition of Nord Culture. Happy now? I said you were right about something, once I accept your definition as given.
Unfortunately, I don't actually accept your definition. The Nords in TES V Skyrim don't believe that "The only True Nord Culture is the one that's pre-Talos". So frankly, I don't buy it either. Your definition is inaccurate to the game of TES V Skyrim and the time period when Ulfric lives, where the Nord Culture of that era clearly worships Talos and accepts the majority of the Imperial Pantheon. That's not surprising...they've been an Imperial province for how long, again? Ulfric is clearly defending the culture of the Nords at the time of Skyrim by defending Talos worship. That's what he means. That's what every Nord in Skyrim understands him to mean.
By Ulfric's standards and by the standard of the other Nords in Skyrim, defending the worship of Talos is NOT spitting on their culture. Those are the standards I judge him on, because those are actually present in TES V Skyrim.
But we've circled around this topic long enough, derailing the thread despite my best intentions. Hopefully, we can agree to disagree.3 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »the fake Schwarzenegger accent used by the voice actors, that sound NOTHING like actual nordic accents
Fun fact, if you watch any of the Schwarzenegger movies in German, he has been dubbed over in all of his movies by the same German voice actor who has a much less pronounced accent.
Why you ask?
Because even to us Germans that original accent sounds like a complete imbecile is speaking ...
PS: Also worth noting, just because they are called "Nords" in TES does not mean they have to match real life Nordic people and/or culture.
Edited by SirAndy on July 31, 2019 7:54PM3 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭MasterSpatula wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »
Bretons are a result of years of breeding between Altmer and Breton. Not at all comparible, they're an exception to the rule. And even then; they're still one race, not two.1 -
Bruccius✭✭✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »Scythe_Mercer wrote: »Scythe_Mercer wrote: »Scythe_Mercer wrote: »*cough* just gonna leave this here Incase -certain- people here just -claim- to know something without any research whatsoever and thinks this deity is solely of one race. https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Tiber_Septim
Talos is just one race. Anything else is fanfic. What his race is is up to debate, but he's most likely either Breton or Imperial.
Now is that fact or your personal opinion, seems to me you didn’t read jack squat here pal :^) Edit: Actually hol up his race is kiiinda up for debate, most of it is leading towards being born in Atmora tho :thinking:
Him being born on Atmora is false since his date of birth was in the Second Era while the last shipment from Atmora arrived in the first.
Yes, his race is up to debate. But it was only one race. That is a fact. And that race is most likely either Imperial or Breton.
It’s really unknown at this point but going around claiming it’s this or that really is showing a lot of red flags here. Eh Nords aren’t my number 1 so really people can debate them all they want I really care about 3 races anyway. :shrug:
No, it isn't ''unknown at this point''. Someone can't be two races in Tamriel; that's not a thing. Either you're one race, or you're another. That's how it works in Tamriel; you take on the race of your mother.
The worst kind of debaters aren't the ones who are completely ignorant, the worst kind are the ones who know a little, and then prance around the courtyard yelling to the left and right, pretending they know absolutely everything.
The irony is thick.2 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PS: Also worth noting, just because they are called "Nords" in TES does not mean they have to match real life Nordic people and/or culture.
Well that's a given, I mean, last time I checked, my ancestors didn't worship any gods named Talos or Shor. But in any case, the Nords of Tamriel are clearly and obviously heavily themed after vikings, just like Redguards are themed after Ottomans/Arabs etc etc. So in that context, it makes it very jarring to hear someone who is obviously a native English speaker trying to emulate what they falsely believe is a Nordic/Scandinavic accent, and sounding more like an even worse version of early Arnold. At that point I would rather they simply hired Scandinavian people to do Scandinavian accents, like the female Swede I mention from TESV, who actually got it right, or that they refrained from trying to make fake accents altogether, and simply went with normal, English speaking people. They do that for several Nords already, like the Stormcloak Thane in Windhelm and many others, and I don't see them trying to put on prissy seventeenth century aristocratic French accents for the Bretons or heavily accented Arabic or Bedouin-wannabe accents for the Redguards either.
Edited by Carbonised on July 31, 2019 8:23PM0 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭MasterSpatula wrote: »
Is everyone also forgetting in Skyrim the elf (I think dark elf) that was adopted and raised by argonians?0 -
Reistr_the_Unbroken✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Wow, I never knew Bretons existed before BretonsMasterSpatula wrote: »MasterSpatula wrote: »
Bretons are a result of years of breeding between Altmer and Breton.
/s
7 -
psychotrip✭✭✭✭✭
✭If nothing else, this thread showcases the consequences of bad, watered down, unfocused, and confusing worldbuilding. Nords are hard to define because they've changed so much from Morrowind, to Skyrim, to ESO.
Now we're seeing what happens when you go from dense, nuanced worldbuilding to a caricature of yourself. The story of The Elder Scrolls in a nutshell.Edited by psychotrip on August 7, 2019 11:51PMNo one is saying there aren't multiple interpretations of the lore, and we're not arguing that ESO did it "wrong".
We're arguing that they decided to go for the most boring, mundane, seen-before interpretation possible. Like they almost always do, unless they can ride on the coat-tails of past games.2