Any reason why ESO Nords sound like complete imbeciles?

Carbonised

There's a thing that has been bugging me a lot, many of the Nords in ESO sound like IQ 80 imbeciles, even going so far as referring to themselves in third person, a trait usually associated with idiots and other slow-minded people.

I get that ZOS is trying to go with the "comic relief" card that they usually come up with for most their writing, and Divines know the fake Schwarzenegger accent used by the voice actors, that sound NOTHING like actual nordic accents, doesn't do anything to help this.

But come on, we have the game of Skyrim, with plenty of Nords in their homeland. None of them sound particularly stupid or dim-witted, and I cannot recall a single one referring to themselves in the third person - other than Narfi, who was obviously insane and a beggar. Nords in Skyrim sound perfectly normal, have normal dialogue and speech, yet Nords in ESO tend to be incredibly daft, they always say or write incredibly stupid sentences that are supposed to come across as "funny", and they often refer to themselves in third person, most infamously Rigurt of the DLCs and Eastmarch. Voice actors also tend to smear a thick Eastern European/Russian accent across every sentence they speak, which makes them sound even more daft.

Considering that Skyrim will probably be a chapter in ESO in the near future, can we have justice for the Nords, and please allow them to speak like normal people, just like Bretons and Imperials and Redguards, and just like they do in the actual game Skyrim. Having them sound like cavemen as they do in ESO is downright lore breaking, and not at all in line with former TES games, nor the incredibly rich and detailed history and culture of Nords ever since their emergence from the continent of Atmora.

worrallj

I know what you mean. It's more than just their speech though. Their culture seems nonexistent. They seem to have no religious centers of their own and their government is just a king who appears in like two quests as far as I can tell. I think it's a symptom of how many MMOs go for cutsy novelties rather than world building. ESO does it less than many other MMOs but it's still not out of the trap.

If they do a Nord expansion I hope they flesh those guys out some more.

Carbonised

worrallj wrote: »

I know what you mean. It's more than just their speech though. Their culture seems nonexistent. They seem to have no religious centers of their own and their government is just a king who appears in like two quests as far as I can tell. I think it's a symptom of how many MMOs go for cutsy novelties rather than world building. ESO does it less than many other MMOs but it's still not out of the trap.

If they do a Nord expansion I hope they flesh those guys out some more.

Yeah, nord culture in ESO base game is basically stupid barbarians who can't speak right and who only think of fighting and drinking mead. Stark contrast to how they're portrayed in the game Skyrim, and even starker contrast to the old TES depiction of nords, mainly via Kirkbride, with their Atmoran heritage, their cults of Shor and Talos, and basically everything that make nords nords, and not simply some cheap, shallow Viking ripoff.
They managed to make Argonians and Khajiit appear deeply cultured and unique with the expansions, so let's hope they at least do the nords the same service. And for the love of Talos, no more nords sounding like imbecilic trolls "Me smash, Brunulf smash puny elf", writing like that should really be halted by the loremaster and be sent back to the writers.

Bruccius

I really recommend you read up on the lore. The Nords are depicted in ESO the way they are in the lore.

NordSwordnBoard

I get Germanic and Scandanavian accents out of the ESO Nords. Many Khajiit do have a Eastern Europe/Slavic accent, but I never heard Nords sound Russian.

Shalidor and the guy from Direfrost (same voice actor) don't sound stupid to me. Actions may be debatable, but that's different. They are playing to stereotypes that all the races in Tamriel have, I don't feel an over-emphasis on just Nords.

I agree in the sense most NPCs fall under "stereotype" or "surprise! opposite of the stereotype!" with not much range in between the two. On the other hand this is what allows that one quest NPC who is different to actually be "surprisingly" different than the others.

ArchMikem

Nord NPCs with filler background status are the low knowledge stereotypes, while those in the "Main Character" category in quests are actually competent people.

Carbonised

Bruccius wrote: »

I really recommend you read up on the lore. The Nords are depicted in ESO the way they are in the lore.

I really recommend you try and play the game Skyrim, you know, the one set in Skyrim and full of nords. I also recommend you read up on some real TES lore of nords, like Shor, Son of Shor, Children of the Sky, The Five Hundred Mighty Companions etc.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I get Germanic and Scandanavian accents out of the ESO Nords. Many Khajiit do have a Eastern Europe/Slavic accent, but I never heard Nords sound Russian.

Shalidor and the guy from Direfrost (same voice actor) don't sound stupid to me. Actions may be debatable, but that's different. They are playing to stereotypes that all the races in Tamriel have, I don't feel an over-emphasis on just Nords.

I agree in the sense most NPCs fall under "stereotype" or "surprise! opposite of the stereotype!" with not much range in between the two. On the other hand this is what allows that one quest NPC who is different to actually be "surprisingly" different than the others.

Well I am Scandinavian and speak two nordic languages, and I can assure you that most of what you hear in ESO has nothing to do with nordic or scandinavian accents at all. For instance the announcer in Blessed Crucible, who introduces the Troll King, that voice actor is used for many female nords, and she sounds pretty much like a female version of Arnold.
If you want to listen to a real female scandinavian accent, there's the woman who voice acts Mjoll, Gerdur and many female nords in Skyrim, she also happens to be Swedish, and have a more authentic nordic accent.

As for Shalidor, I did not say ALL nords were portrayed like this, and since Shalidor is pretty much one of the most powerful mages of his era, of course they didn't make him sound dumb, that was a stupid example. But pretty much every run of the mill average nord sounds incredibly stupid and daft in ESO, unlike they do in Skyrim. Rigurt being a prime example, and far from the only one.

And as for sterotypes, TES didn't portray nords as typically stupid or daft, that's an ESO thing, not a TES thing.

Bruccius

@Carbonised
If you're going to use TES V as a means to prove the culture and ways of the Nords, you seriously lose all credibility you have. Anyone who knows Nord culture, knows that the Nords during the events of TES V are so watered down, they'd sooner be Colovians living in Skyrim than Nords.

Oh, btw, ''Shor son of Shor'' and ''The Five Hundred Mighty Companions'' are not part of the lore. They're unofficial works written by Michael Kirkbride. Try again, please.

worrallj

The accents don't actually bother me that much- the Nords are certainly inspired by Scandinavian history but there's no reason they need a real/accurate scandanavian accent. For some reason the khajit & bosmer accents get to me just a bit sometimes.

NordSwordnBoard

Carbonised wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

I really recommend you read up on the lore. The Nords are depicted in ESO the way they are in the lore.

I really recommend you try and play the game Skyrim, you know, the one set in Skyrim and full of nords. I also recommend you read up on some real TES lore of nords, like Shor, Son of Shor, Children of the Sky, The Five Hundred Mighty Companions etc.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I get Germanic and Scandanavian accents out of the ESO Nords. Many Khajiit do have a Eastern Europe/Slavic accent, but I never heard Nords sound Russian.

Shalidor and the guy from Direfrost (same voice actor) don't sound stupid to me. Actions may be debatable, but that's different. They are playing to stereotypes that all the races in Tamriel have, I don't feel an over-emphasis on just Nords.

I agree in the sense most NPCs fall under "stereotype" or "surprise! opposite of the stereotype!" with not much range in between the two. On the other hand this is what allows that one quest NPC who is different to actually be "surprisingly" different than the others.

Well I am Scandinavian and speak two nordic languages, and I can assure you that most of what you hear in ESO has nothing to do with nordic or scandinavian accents at all. For instance the announcer in Blessed Crucible, who introduces the Troll King, that voice actor is used for many female nords, and she sounds pretty much like a female version of Arnold.
If you want to listen to a real female scandinavian accent, there's the woman who voice acts Mjoll, Gerdur and many female nords in Skyrim, she also happens to be Swedish, and have a more authentic nordic accent.

As for Shalidor, I did not say ALL nords were portrayed like this, and since Shalidor is pretty much one of the most powerful mages of his era, of course they didn't make him sound dumb, that was a stupid example. But pretty much every run of the mill average nord sounds incredibly stupid and daft in ESO, unlike they do in Skyrim. Rigurt being a prime example, and far from the only one.

And as for sterotypes, TES didn't portray nords as typically stupid or daft, that's an ESO thing, not a TES thing.

Can Nords in Tamriel have Germanic accents? I always assumed it was just a different Nord dialect. ESO race accents tend to be hybrids of IRL regions. Are you basically saying that a German accent for a Tamriel Nord is lore breaking?

Carbonised

Bruccius wrote: »

@Carbonised
If you're going to use TES V as a means to prove the culture and ways of the Nords, you seriously lose all credibility you have. Anyone who knows Nord culture, knows that the Nords during the events of TES V are so watered down, they'd sooner be Colovians living in Skyrim than Nords.

Oh, btw, ''Shor son of Shor'' and ''The Five Hundred Mighty Companions'' are not part of the lore. They're unofficial works written by Michael Kirkbride. Try again, please.

Oh yawn, Kirkbride's "The Many Headed Talos" is also "unofficial work" as you put it, yet it is quoted by Heimskr in TESV and therefore official canon. How about that, huh.
Also, Kirkbride is the one who came up with much of the original Nord lore from the Morrowind game era, so when he did that you're perfectly OK with him, but when he writes something at a later period, it's suddenly not worth considering.
And this is from the same person who disregards the entire lore and canon of an official TES game - Skyrim - just because he doesn't agree with it and considers it "watered down". Lol mate, you're just cherry picking the bits and pieces of lore you actually like and want, and then disregard everything else. So maybe you're the one who needs to try a bit harder next time.

VaranisArano

worrallj wrote: »

I know what you mean. It's more than just their speech though. Their culture seems nonexistent. They seem to have no religious centers of their own and their government is just a king who appears in like two quests as far as I can tell. I think it's a symptom of how many MMOs go for cutsy novelties rather than world building. ESO does it less than many other MMOs but it's still not out of the trap.

If they do a Nord expansion I hope they flesh those guys out some more.

I'm not sure we played through the same regions in Skyrim. None of it is explored in the same depth as TESV Skyrim, but its not absent.

Religious structures? There's a major cult of Kynareth south of Windhelm who's grappling with the impact of the war on their religion. There's the Mistwatch priests who are a throwback some of the pre-Eight Divines nordic spirits. There's a Hall of the Dead in Windhelm (given about the same level of treatment as in Skyrim). We see a lot of Nord culture about the dead and afterlife when dealing with the Queen and Sovngarde.

As for Government, we don't get the same level of detail as Skyrim, unfortunately. Some of that comes down to what we do see - a much higher level of independence on the part of the Thanes. From Mera in Windhelm to several in the Rift, we see the Thanes operating as semi-independent rulers of their small towns.

So while ESO definitely goes in for breadth over depth, I thought they do some interesting things with Nord culture that's distinct from Skyrim.

Adernath

Perhaps the Nords during the time of the 2nd age were just a little bit more stupid than in the 4th

VaranisArano

Carbonised wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

@Carbonised
If you're going to use TES V as a means to prove the culture and ways of the Nords, you seriously lose all credibility you have. Anyone who knows Nord culture, knows that the Nords during the events of TES V are so watered down, they'd sooner be Colovians living in Skyrim than Nords.

Oh, btw, ''Shor son of Shor'' and ''The Five Hundred Mighty Companions'' are not part of the lore. They're unofficial works written by Michael Kirkbride. Try again, please.

Oh yawn, Kirkbride's "The Many Headed Talos" is also "unofficial work" as you put it, yet it is quoted by Heimskr in TESV and therefore official canon. How about that, huh.
Also, Kirkbride is the one who came up with much of the original Nord lore from the Morrowind game era, so when he did that you're perfectly OK with him, but when he writes something at a later period, it's suddenly not worth considering.
And this is from the same person who disregards the entire lore and canon of an official TES game - Skyrim - just because he doesn't agree with it and considers it "watered down". Lol mate, you're just cherry picking the bits and pieces of lore you actually like and want, and then disregard everything else. So maybe you're the one who needs to try a bit harder next time.

The part of The Many Headed Talos that is quoted is canon, because it's in the game.

The rest of it isn't canon, because it's not in the game.

Gilvoth

.

Adernath

Bruccius wrote: »

@Carbonised
If you're going to use TES V as a means to prove the culture and ways of the Nords, you seriously lose all credibility you have. Anyone who knows Nord culture, knows that the Nords during the events of TES V are so watered down, they'd sooner be Colovians living in Skyrim than Nords.

Watered down? why do you believe that? its more like in ESO they are more often very dumb, as Carbonised said.

It just does not make much sense if they behave all like low-minded people.

Gilvoth

Carbonised wrote: »

worrallj wrote: »

I know what you mean. It's more than just their speech though. Their culture seems nonexistent. They seem to have no religious centers of their own and their government is just a king who appears in like two quests as far as I can tell. I think it's a symptom of how many MMOs go for cutsy novelties rather than world building. ESO does it less than many other MMOs but it's still not out of the trap.

If they do a Nord expansion I hope they flesh those guys out some more.

nord is basically stupid barbarians

this ^
all Truth.


look at the books about Nords.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:ABCs_for_Barbarians
they are stupid. they live in the woods and cannot even make enchantments nor cast spells.
eso massive failure to put the voice of a nord in enchantments.
the only reason they are made to look intelligent is because bethesda, zenimax, and eso needed sales in a new direction.

Snowstrider

I am not that bothered by the accents but more bothered with how everything has to be so stereotypical and watered down in eso.

Why not explore more on that cool stuff about the Thu'um? instead of your average goofy drunks there is alot of stuff you can do with them especially since this is far in the past compared to other TES games so the imperials havent had as much effect on them or their culture as they have had in Skyrim.

Explore more about the nordic pantheon for an exsmple.

Ogou

Snowstrider wrote: »

I am not that bothered by the accents but more bothered with how everything has to be so stereotypical and watered down in eso.

Why not explore more on that cool stuff about the Thu'um? instead of your average goofy drunks there is alot of stuff you can do with them especially since this is far in the past compared to other TES games so the imperials havent had as much effect on them or their culture as they have had in Skyrim.

Explore more about the nordic pantheon for an exsmple.

True, but I feel you can say the same about any of the races that have not received an expansion in one of their territory yet.

Itacira

Absolutely agree with you, and I say that even though I've never been particularly a fan of Nords myself, and was pretty neutral about Skyrim. Which is not an invitation for debate, I'm just saying, I don't have any nostalgia or particular attachment to Nords that'd make me take up arms for them for no reason.

I mean, Rigurt was fun the first two times but now is just exasperating in how he DOESN'T LEARN from his previous experiences (though I do appreciate how it's hinted that his fellow Nords sent him away to get rid of him, fun bit of trivia). And if it was just him, it'd be fine, but it's a recurring thing.

I think the stroke that broke my camel's back was in the mage school thing in Deshaan, with its prophecised nord mage that was supposed to be super strong but, as the school's Dumbledore said, dumb as rocks.

Vietfox

Carbonised wrote: »

Any reason why ESO Nords sound like complete imbeciles?

Because they are.

Carbonised

Vietfox wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Any reason why ESO Nords sound like complete imbeciles?

Because they are.

That's a pretty ignorant comment, when that wasn't how they were portrayed in the actual TES game of Skyrim, and the standard Bethesda had made out for them, until ZOS decided to scrap most of it and make them into idiots for comic relief in ESO.

worrallj

VaranisArano wrote: »

worrallj wrote: »

I know what you mean. It's more than just their speech though. Their culture seems nonexistent. They seem to have no religious centers of their own and their government is just a king who appears in like two quests as far as I can tell. I think it's a symptom of how many MMOs go for cutsy novelties rather than world building. ESO does it less than many other MMOs but it's still not out of the trap.

If they do a Nord expansion I hope they flesh those guys out some more.

I'm not sure we played through the same regions in Skyrim. None of it is explored in the same depth as TESV Skyrim, but its not absent.

Religious structures? There's a major cult of Kynareth south of Windhelm who's grappling with the impact of the war on their religion. There's the Mistwatch priests who are a throwback some of the pre-Eight Divines nordic spirits. There's a Hall of the Dead in Windhelm (given about the same level of treatment as in Skyrim). We see a lot of Nord culture about the dead and afterlife when dealing with the Queen and Sovngarde.

As for Government, we don't get the same level of detail as Skyrim, unfortunately. Some of that comes down to what we do see - a much higher level of independence on the part of the Thanes. From Mera in Windhelm to several in the Rift, we see the Thanes operating as semi-independent rulers of their small towns.

So while ESO definitely goes in for breadth over depth, I thought they do some interesting things with Nord culture that's distinct from Skyrim.

@VaranisArano well those are certainly fair points. I guess I just found it a little too scattershot and like I didn't get a comprehensive sense of cultural identity, and that's probably what your talking about with breadth instead of depth. Hopefully it can all get more fleshed out in an expansion.

Vietfox

Carbonised wrote: »

Vietfox wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

Any reason why ESO Nords sound like complete imbeciles?

Because they are.

That's a pretty ignorant comment, when that wasn't how they were portrayed in the actual TES game of Skyrim, and the standard Bethesda had made out for them, until ZOS decided to scrap most of it and make them into idiots for comic relief in ESO.

Had the same opinion about them in Skyrim as well.

Number_51

Carbonised wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

I really recommend you read up on the lore. The Nords are depicted in ESO the way they are in the lore.

I really recommend you try and play the game Skyrim, you know, the one set in Skyrim and full of nords. I also recommend you read up on some real TES lore of nords, like Shor, Son of Shor, Children of the Sky, The Five Hundred Mighty Companions etc.

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

I get Germanic and Scandanavian accents out of the ESO Nords. Many Khajiit do have a Eastern Europe/Slavic accent, but I never heard Nords sound Russian.

Shalidor and the guy from Direfrost (same voice actor) don't sound stupid to me. Actions may be debatable, but that's different. They are playing to stereotypes that all the races in Tamriel have, I don't feel an over-emphasis on just Nords.

I agree in the sense most NPCs fall under "stereotype" or "surprise! opposite of the stereotype!" with not much range in between the two. On the other hand this is what allows that one quest NPC who is different to actually be "surprisingly" different than the others.

Well I am Scandinavian and speak two nordic languages, and I can assure you that most of what you hear in ESO has nothing to do with nordic or scandinavian accents at all. For instance the announcer in Blessed Crucible, who introduces the Troll King, that voice actor is used for many female nords, and she sounds pretty much like a female version of Arnold.
If you want to listen to a real female scandinavian accent, there's the woman who voice acts Mjoll, Gerdur and many female nords in Skyrim, she also happens to be Swedish, and have a more authentic nordic accent.

As for Shalidor, I did not say ALL nords were portrayed like this, and since Shalidor is pretty much one of the most powerful mages of his era, of course they didn't make him sound dumb, that was a stupid example. But pretty much every run of the mill average nord sounds incredibly stupid and daft in ESO, unlike they do in Skyrim. Rigurt being a prime example, and far from the only one.

And as for sterotypes, TES didn't portray nords as typically stupid or daft, that's an ESO thing, not a TES thing.

So you rebuke the use of Shalidor as "a stupid example", and then turn around and use Rigurt as your own example. They're both on opposite, and extreme ends of the intelligence spectrum. It's just my opinion, but I thought there was as much spread on the super intelligent to not intelligent spectrum as there is for any other race in the game. You have to pretty much disregard any Nord in and around Windhelm since they're all drunk... it is the Konunleikar after all.

My thought is that maybe you are projecting your own cultural biases on the characters. That's not an accusation, nor am I trying to offend you in any way, I'm just basing that on how often the conversation has returned to Arnold. Try taking each character at face value and understand that Tamrielic Nords are not a 1-to-1 correlation with real-life Nords, but rather an amalgamation of a number of different cultures and having their own idiosyncrasies. Or try playing with voices turned off.

Bruccius

Carbonised wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

@Carbonised
If you're going to use TES V as a means to prove the culture and ways of the Nords, you seriously lose all credibility you have. Anyone who knows Nord culture, knows that the Nords during the events of TES V are so watered down, they'd sooner be Colovians living in Skyrim than Nords.

Oh, btw, ''Shor son of Shor'' and ''The Five Hundred Mighty Companions'' are not part of the lore. They're unofficial works written by Michael Kirkbride. Try again, please.

Oh yawn, Kirkbride's "The Many Headed Talos" is also "unofficial work" as you put it, yet it is quoted by Heimskr in TESV and therefore official canon. How about that, huh.
Also, Kirkbride is the one who came up with much of the original Nord lore from the Morrowind game era, so when he did that you're perfectly OK with him, but when he writes something at a later period, it's suddenly not worth considering.
And this is from the same person who disregards the entire lore and canon of an official TES game - Skyrim - just because he doesn't agree with it and considers it "watered down". Lol mate, you're just cherry picking the bits and pieces of lore you actually like and want, and then disregard everything else. So maybe you're the one who needs to try a bit harder next time.

Not the entire work is canon, only the part quoted by Heimskr is part of the lore.

And yeah, I'm okay with what he wrote back then. You know why? Because Bethesda made it part of the lore, unlike these ''new'' works of him. Bethesda is the one deciding what is and isn't part of TES lore, and since they didn't include these works, they aren't part of the lore.

I really recommend you read up on the Nords and then replay TES V. Or do you really think that Nords getting upset that an Imperial Deity is banned makes sense? Or the fact that the Nords worship the Imperial Pantheon? No?

Bruccius

Adernath wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

@Carbonised
If you're going to use TES V as a means to prove the culture and ways of the Nords, you seriously lose all credibility you have. Anyone who knows Nord culture, knows that the Nords during the events of TES V are so watered down, they'd sooner be Colovians living in Skyrim than Nords.

Watered down? why do you believe that? its more like in ESO they are more often very dumb, as Carbonised said.

It just does not make much sense if they behave all like low-minded people.

Nords are not meant to be the brightest of folks. So yeah, by making them ''intelligent'' in TES V, their cultural aspect is getting distorted. Nords were famous for their dislike of wizards and the schools of magic. Guess where scholars go to study? Magical organisations.

Carbonised

Bruccius wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

@Carbonised
If you're going to use TES V as a means to prove the culture and ways of the Nords, you seriously lose all credibility you have. Anyone who knows Nord culture, knows that the Nords during the events of TES V are so watered down, they'd sooner be Colovians living in Skyrim than Nords.

Watered down? why do you believe that? its more like in ESO they are more often very dumb, as Carbonised said.

It just does not make much sense if they behave all like low-minded people.

Nords are not meant to be the brightest of folks.

You have absolutely no evidence for that claim in any of the lore regarding nords, it is entirely unbased and nothing but your own conjecture. And I believe I am done discussing this topic with you regardless.

Bruccius

Carbonised wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

@Carbonised
If you're going to use TES V as a means to prove the culture and ways of the Nords, you seriously lose all credibility you have. Anyone who knows Nord culture, knows that the Nords during the events of TES V are so watered down, they'd sooner be Colovians living in Skyrim than Nords.

Watered down? why do you believe that? its more like in ESO they are more often very dumb, as Carbonised said.

It just does not make much sense if they behave all like low-minded people.

Nords are not meant to be the brightest of folks.

You have absolutely no evidence for that claim in any of the lore regarding nords, it is entirely unbased and nothing but your own conjecture. And I believe I am done discussing this topic with you regardless.

No evidence for that claim? Have you not played throug the franchise? The Nords are famous for their love of battle, not their love of books.

Read up on the culture of the Nords, bud. And try to limit, or rather, remove, any unofficial Kirkbride nonsense along the way.

SantieClaws

Khajiit wonders if perhaps they are just a little tipsy for a lot of the time?

It is the cold weather this one assumes perhaps?

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

LennoxPoodle

Bruccius wrote: »

Adernath wrote: »

Bruccius wrote: »

@Carbonised
If you're going to use TES V as a means to prove the culture and ways of the Nords, you seriously lose all credibility you have. Anyone who knows Nord culture, knows that the Nords during the events of TES V are so watered down, they'd sooner be Colovians living in Skyrim than Nords.

Watered down? why do you believe that? its more like in ESO they are more often very dumb, as Carbonised said.

It just does not make much sense if they behave all like low-minded people.

Nords are not meant to be the brightest of folks. So yeah, by making them ''intelligent'' in TES V, their cultural aspect is getting distorted. Nords were famous for their dislike of wizards and the schools of magic. Guess where scholars go to study? Magical organisations.

I seem to remember a book about Skyrim in TES V, which claims that the Nords are very driven to and adapt at exploring abstract concepts or something along those lines, which is the driving factor for their lust of discovery and travel. They seem to actually enjoy learning. It's just that they usually don't take the bookworm route.