EvilAutoTech wrote: »

I think it's time to restate my "city limits" idea.

City limits applies to any location that can be zoomed in past the zone max zoom.

Anywhere affected by city limits would be free of pets, dueling, mounts and the visual effects of skills and abilities.

City limits would be disabled in instances where quests that require fighting are still active.

I doubt this will be a popular idea and am quite sure it will never be part of the game, but I want it.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This is what, the 3rd recent thread covering this exact same topic? It doesnt even say anything new we didnt discuss to death the first 2 times.

In my experience:

During the Anniversary Event when everyone and their mother was doing crafting writs, I did mine at Vivec and Alinor, two busy locations.

For those two weeks, every time there was a pet in the way, I took at most 3 steps to the side and could access the station/turn in box.

The NPC that ZOS stuck in the middle of Vivec's turn in boxes was more annoying.

I have yet to have a pet actually block me from accessing a crafting station or quest NPC in a way that I couldn't simply move around a little bit in order to gain access. I don't know if I'm just lucky...but I doubt it.

Yeah...I thought that too...Wrong. The other day someone had their bear ontop of the the vendor in Summerset completely. People kept trying to access it as did I. If it had a sweet spot accessible I could not find it. I did run to a vendor inside the crafting area but it was annoying. Try having a little empathy for others rather than yourself and only what you experience.

Its the 3rd thread in less than that many weeks saying the exact same thing. Sorry, my empathy bucket is about dry - I spent most of it on the first two threads.

So I'll be blunt.

We humans disproportionately remember bad experiences. We forget the good ones or times when nothing happened. That's just how we humans work. That's the reason I said I paid attention to pets blocking progress for 2 weeks, the 2 busiest crafting weeks of the year on multiple characters in busy locations.

These threads attract a preponderance if horroe stories from people who have bad experiences with pets.

But, crucially, that's not actually evidence that those experiences are common to all players. (Rather it is evidence that its a common experience to the forum posters who self select to comment on a complaint thread about pets, go figure.)

I went into the Anniversary Event expecting to see pets block my progress severely. After all, its talked a lot about on the forums, so I should see it, right?

I was surprised when the pets were minor annoyances. Maybe I was lucky. I'll have to continue the experiment next year, and maybe more people will join me.


If I were to conclude anything from my experiment, it would be:
1. Even if pets rarely block progress partially, and presumably complete blockage is even rarer...ZOS still needs to fix the pet AI. Pets blocking progress is bad AI and bad for gameplay.

2. I'd want more data to determine if I were truly lucky, but pets blocking progress in busy crafting areas did not occur for me anywhere near as often as forum horror stories would lead me to believe, even during the busiest crafting weeks of the year over time. That was a very unexpected result for me - I expected much worse judging by the forums.


Again, sorry if that seems unempathetic. I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

Do you craft daily writs? Write it down how often you have to move over to get at a crafting station or writ turn in box.
Me: 3 partial blockages in 2 weeks, 9 characters daily, Vivec and Alinor.

Pets blocking your banker or a regular questgiver? Keep track of your visits, marking how many partial or conplete blockages you get out of total visits.

That's the sort of data that really helps ZOS see "Hey, this is really a daily/weekly/monthly/once in a blue moon problem for players and we should get on with fixing this!"

Wow...so it comes down to ...if it doesn't happen to you...it doesn't happen. Your experiment is really a poor one...your own characters...at your own time frames...so it must be empirical evidence. Its still a very small data pool. By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me. The fact that there have been recent threads & even more over the years is also evidence that its occurring for some. Just because I don't have performance issues in Cyrodil for example...does not mean that others don't.

Really? Did I call you a liar and claim pets blocking progress never, ever happens to anyone? Nope. I did not.

I acknowledge(d) it happens. Duh. I specifically referenced the horror stories I've heard on three threads now.

I don't question that it happens. I do question how often it happens, because very rarely does anyone provide that crucial context. I appreciate you adding some context to your original horror story - I wish more posters did that.

I hope that clears that up.


My point is a good bit more complicated than you suggest Here's what annoys the complainers: I argue that without the crucial context of how often pets blocking progress happens over time, its downright impossible for ZOS to determine how often it happens, which is a necessary component of figuring out how severe a problem is and how to prioritize its fix.

Pets blocking progress: Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

Figuring out how often it happens and how severe the problem is a crucial aspect for any player, like me, who wants to convince ZOS to dedicate time and resources to fixing it.

Doing that requires data and observations.

And frankly, if my two weeks is a small data pool (which I fully admit it is), then you ought to understand why I don't regard the collected anecdotes of forum posters self-selecting to complain about pets on a pet complaint thread as good data either (its a small pool of inherently biased data with zero context for how often that happens). The vast majority of complaints are good at proving "ZOS, this problem happens!" They are useless at proving "ZOS, this is happening often enough that you need to prioritize it." (See the above comments about human nature remembering the bad unless you take deliberate steps to place it all in its proper context)

Even your own horror story just got modified with its context: "By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me." You see why I'm pushing for context? Thank you, by the way, for providing that vital context for understanding how often this occurs for you.


Context is necessary to figure out how often the problem occurs.

Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

ZOS cares about the answer to that when it comes to prioritizing fixes! The more players we get sharing their experiences in context, the better chance we have of convincing ZOS.


I want this pets blocking progress issue fixed.

That's why I ended my post with a call for more people to do a similar experiment so we have a bigger data pool so that - for anyone who wants ZOS to take this problem seriously - they have something approaching empirical evidence that "Hey, ZOS, this is serious, common, and you should do something about it!"

If we're going to convince ZOS to prioritize a fix for the problem, the best way is not with no-context horror stories, but instead with the observational evidence we players can gather that this is a commonly occuring, severe problem within the coxtext of everyday gameplay.

Thus, my challenge: I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

That's the best way to gather the data we need to convince ZOS this fix needs to be a priority.



But no, you are absolutely right, I don't care about anyone other than me and what I see.

If you want to continue this conversation, please, let's engage with what I actually said. Thank you.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This is what, the 3rd recent thread covering this exact same topic? It doesnt even say anything new we didnt discuss to death the first 2 times.

In my experience:

During the Anniversary Event when everyone and their mother was doing crafting writs, I did mine at Vivec and Alinor, two busy locations.

For those two weeks, every time there was a pet in the way, I took at most 3 steps to the side and could access the station/turn in box.

The NPC that ZOS stuck in the middle of Vivec's turn in boxes was more annoying.

I have yet to have a pet actually block me from accessing a crafting station or quest NPC in a way that I couldn't simply move around a little bit in order to gain access. I don't know if I'm just lucky...but I doubt it.

Yeah...I thought that too...Wrong. The other day someone had their bear ontop of the the vendor in Summerset completely. People kept trying to access it as did I. If it had a sweet spot accessible I could not find it. I did run to a vendor inside the crafting area but it was annoying. Try having a little empathy for others rather than yourself and only what you experience.

Its the 3rd thread in less than that many weeks saying the exact same thing. Sorry, my empathy bucket is about dry - I spent most of it on the first two threads.

So I'll be blunt.

We humans disproportionately remember bad experiences. We forget the good ones or times when nothing happened. That's just how we humans work. That's the reason I said I paid attention to pets blocking progress for 2 weeks, the 2 busiest crafting weeks of the year on multiple characters in busy locations.

These threads attract a preponderance if horroe stories from people who have bad experiences with pets.

But, crucially, that's not actually evidence that those experiences are common to all players. (Rather it is evidence that its a common experience to the forum posters who self select to comment on a complaint thread about pets, go figure.)

I went into the Anniversary Event expecting to see pets block my progress severely. After all, its talked a lot about on the forums, so I should see it, right?

I was surprised when the pets were minor annoyances. Maybe I was lucky. I'll have to continue the experiment next year, and maybe more people will join me.


If I were to conclude anything from my experiment, it would be:
1. Even if pets rarely block progress partially, and presumably complete blockage is even rarer...ZOS still needs to fix the pet AI. Pets blocking progress is bad AI and bad for gameplay.

2. I'd want more data to determine if I were truly lucky, but pets blocking progress in busy crafting areas did not occur for me anywhere near as often as forum horror stories would lead me to believe, even during the busiest crafting weeks of the year over time. That was a very unexpected result for me - I expected much worse judging by the forums.


Again, sorry if that seems unempathetic. I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

Do you craft daily writs? Write it down how often you have to move over to get at a crafting station or writ turn in box.
Me: 3 partial blockages in 2 weeks, 9 characters daily, Vivec and Alinor.

Pets blocking your banker or a regular questgiver? Keep track of your visits, marking how many partial or conplete blockages you get out of total visits.

That's the sort of data that really helps ZOS see "Hey, this is really a daily/weekly/monthly/once in a blue moon problem for players and we should get on with fixing this!"

Wow...so it comes down to ...if it doesn't happen to you...it doesn't happen. Your experiment is really a poor one...your own characters...at your own time frames...so it must be empirical evidence. Its still a very small data pool. By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me. The fact that there have been recent threads & even more over the years is also evidence that its occurring for some. Just because I don't have performance issues in Cyrodil for example...does not mean that others don't.

Really? Did I call you a liar and claim pets blocking progress never, ever happens to anyone? Nope. I did not.

I acknowledge(d) it happens. Duh. I specifically referenced the horror stories I've heard on three threads now.

I don't question that it happens. I do question how often it happens, because very rarely does anyone provide that crucial context. I appreciate you adding some context to your original horror story - I wish more posters did that.

I hope that clears that up.


My point is a good bit more complicated than you suggest Here's what annoys the complainers: I argue that without the crucial context of how often pets blocking progress happens over time, its downright impossible for ZOS to determine how often it happens, which is a necessary component of figuring out how severe a problem is and how to prioritize its fix.

Pets blocking progress: Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

Figuring out how often it happens and how severe the problem is a crucial aspect for any player, like me, who wants to convince ZOS to dedicate time and resources to fixing it.

Doing that requires data and observations.

And frankly, if my two weeks is a small data pool (which I fully admit it is), then you ought to understand why I don't regard the collected anecdotes of forum posters self-selecting to complain about pets on a pet complaint thread as good data either (its a small pool of inherently biased data with zero context for how often that happens). The vast majority of complaints are good at proving "ZOS, this problem happens!" They are useless at proving "ZOS, this is happening often enough that you need to prioritize it." (See the above comments about human nature remembering the bad unless you take deliberate steps to place it all in its proper context)

Even your own horror story just got modified with its context: "By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me." You see why I'm pushing for context? Thank you, by the way, for providing that vital context for understanding how often this occurs for you.


Context is necessary to figure out how often the problem occurs.

Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

ZOS cares about the answer to that when it comes to prioritizing fixes! The more players we get sharing their experiences in context, the better chance we have of convincing ZOS.


I want this pets blocking progress issue fixed.

That's why I ended my post with a call for more people to do a similar experiment so we have a bigger data pool so that - for anyone who wants ZOS to take this problem seriously - they have something approaching empirical evidence that "Hey, ZOS, this is serious, common, and you should do something about it!"

If we're going to convince ZOS to prioritize a fix for the problem, the best way is not with no-context horror stories, but instead with the observational evidence we players can gather that this is a commonly occuring, severe problem within the coxtext of everyday gameplay.

Thus, my challenge: I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

That's the best way to gather the data we need to convince ZOS this fix needs to be a priority.



But no, you are absolutely right, I don't care about anyone other than me and what I see.

If you want to continue this conversation, please, let's engage with what I actually said. Thank you.

It happens to me daily on 5 to 6 if not 7 of my character's per day while doing crafting and has happened in this crafting Hall since day one of Summerset drop as I had found a genuine hub for do my crafting dailies
And to be honest when it was built I don't think they had Sorcerers in mine I believe they had the Crafters who done there crafting dailies and gave us a hole that we've been asking for forever but yet now it's being destroyed by pets being allowed to run around within it and if you notice the door Dismount you I wish you D pet yeah

Thanks for the context of how often this happens to you!

Out of curiosity for the severity, is this completely blocking access or can you access what you need after moving around a bit? (Assuming the same target, instead of moving to the other crafting station for that type - I think Alinor has duplicate stations for all but provisioning?)