Pets Blocking Progress

VaranisArano

zvavi wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Or how about simply remove the stupid feature that makes pet block interacting.... it does not serve a purpose, ever. There is literally no situation where this would make sense.

Pvp targeting.

*Obligatory "Then add it to Battle Spirit" suggestion.*

ZOS_JesC

Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive comments. This is a friendly reminder to remain on topic and civil when posting. Thank you.

SassiestAssassin

I wish something like the addon PetKennel was default (adds options to automatically dismiss pets at crafting stations, boards, quest givers etc.) but also, a PvE mode where if you get too close they disappear. It’s annoying trying to heal a trial when you have flappy ladies taking up your whole screen

Jayman1000

zvavi wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Or how about simply remove the stupid feature that makes pet block interacting.... it does not serve a purpose, ever. There is literally no situation where this would make sense.

Pvp targeting.

That is not interacting, that is targeting, which is two different things. I agree pvp targeting is a purpose, but it is not interaction. Interaction is when the text appears for interacting with something, like it will display "E Blacksmiting Station" if you have E bound to interacting with things I think E is default).

kimaeril

They should make it the same as when you try to ride your mount into an area that doesn't allow it and you're automatically dismounted. Do the same with the pets and have them automatically unsummoned.

wolfie1.0.

zvavi wrote: »

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Or how about simply remove the stupid feature that makes pet block interacting.... it does not serve a purpose, ever. There is literally no situation where this would make sense.

Pvp targeting.

Then add it to battle spirit and enable it during combat only. While not in combat they act like mounts and non combat pets.

Jayman1000

kimaeril wrote: »

They should make it the same as when you try to ride your mount into an area that doesn't allow it and you're automatically dismounted. Do the same with the pets and have them automatically unsummoned.

I actually agree with this one. It would make the game more immersive, with less clutter, less annoying pet sounds, will make interacting easier. Probably also helps some with performance in cities.

cyclonus11

ZOS_JesC wrote: »

Greetings, we've removed several nonconstructive comments. This is a friendly reminder to remain on topic and civil when posting. Thank you.

5+ years and I still get excited when I see the staff icon, only to be let down when it's just a forum moderator

EvilAutoTech

I think it's time to restate my "city limits" idea.

City limits applies to any location that can be zoomed in past the zone max zoom.

Anywhere affected by city limits would be free of pets, dueling, mounts and the visual effects of skills and abilities.

City limits would be disabled in instances where quests that require fighting are still active.

I doubt this will be a popular idea and am quite sure it will never be part of the game, but I want it.

Xerikten

my crafter is a pet sorc and i ALWAYS unsummon my pets. they get in MY way too.

MehrunesFlagon

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

I think it's time to restate my "city limits" idea.

City limits applies to any location that can be zoomed in past the zone max zoom.

Anywhere affected by city limits would be free of pets, dueling, mounts and the visual effects of skills and abilities.

City limits would be disabled in instances where quests that require fighting are still active.

I doubt this will be a popular idea and am quite sure it will never be part of the game, but I want it.

Only way I would find this acceptable would be if they automatically resummon upon laving the area.

BozzyTheDrummer

I have sad this on another post. Have the pets remain active, but when you are not in combat, have the pets disappear. Not to where you have to summon them again, just disappear when not in combat. When you engage in combat, they re-appear for battle.

There is no reason combat pets should be visible outside of combat. Hell every time I get on my sorcerer, who is also my crafter, I get irritated seeing them. When running in 3rd person (i don't like using 1st person) even when my pets are behind me as I am running, every second I can see my matriarchs wing flap up and down across my screen. It is extremely annoying.

Combat = Pets appear
Non-combat - pets disappear

StabbityDoom

There's such a simple solution. MAKE THEM HAVE NO COLLISION FOR PLAYERS UNLESS IN PVP.

Just like you can click through all the other players in front of you to click on the banker, you should be able to click through the darn pet.

xaraan

What's odd is this was not a problem several updates ago. It's been a recent thing the last couple years.

But what's really bad is this happens during combat as well. Blocking things like being able to use synergies (especially for going downstairs to do portals in CR for example).

Not sure coding wise what the best solution would be, but they definitely need to tinker with how pets work and get this fixed.

Coatmagic

O.O I suggest adding pet shrink to the game and they removed my comment for being.. off topic o.O

WTAF,ZoS?

Marcus684

EvilAutoTech wrote: »

I think it's time to restate my "city limits" idea.

City limits applies to any location that can be zoomed in past the zone max zoom.

Anywhere affected by city limits would be free of pets, dueling, mounts and the visual effects of skills and abilities.

City limits would be disabled in instances where quests that require fighting are still active.

I doubt this will be a popular idea and am quite sure it will never be part of the game, but I want it.

Mostly agree except for mounts. Dueling inside city limits is an annoyance to other players, adds to the game lag in high population places like Wayrest, and doesn’t make much sense in terms of immersion. I can’t imagine most city guards would simply stand by while 2 people started shooting missiles and dropping deadly AoE spells in the midst of a populated area.

Mannix1958

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This is what, the 3rd recent thread covering this exact same topic? It doesnt even say anything new we didnt discuss to death the first 2 times.

In my experience:

During the Anniversary Event when everyone and their mother was doing crafting writs, I did mine at Vivec and Alinor, two busy locations.

For those two weeks, every time there was a pet in the way, I took at most 3 steps to the side and could access the station/turn in box.

The NPC that ZOS stuck in the middle of Vivec's turn in boxes was more annoying.

I have yet to have a pet actually block me from accessing a crafting station or quest NPC in a way that I couldn't simply move around a little bit in order to gain access. I don't know if I'm just lucky...but I doubt it.

Yeah...I thought that too...Wrong. The other day someone had their bear ontop of the the vendor in Summerset completely. People kept trying to access it as did I. If it had a sweet spot accessible I could not find it. I did run to a vendor inside the crafting area but it was annoying. Try having a little empathy for others rather than yourself and only what you experience.

Its the 3rd thread in less than that many weeks saying the exact same thing. Sorry, my empathy bucket is about dry - I spent most of it on the first two threads.

So I'll be blunt.

We humans disproportionately remember bad experiences. We forget the good ones or times when nothing happened. That's just how we humans work. That's the reason I said I paid attention to pets blocking progress for 2 weeks, the 2 busiest crafting weeks of the year on multiple characters in busy locations.

These threads attract a preponderance if horroe stories from people who have bad experiences with pets.

But, crucially, that's not actually evidence that those experiences are common to all players. (Rather it is evidence that its a common experience to the forum posters who self select to comment on a complaint thread about pets, go figure.)

I went into the Anniversary Event expecting to see pets block my progress severely. After all, its talked a lot about on the forums, so I should see it, right?

I was surprised when the pets were minor annoyances. Maybe I was lucky. I'll have to continue the experiment next year, and maybe more people will join me.


If I were to conclude anything from my experiment, it would be:
1. Even if pets rarely block progress partially, and presumably complete blockage is even rarer...ZOS still needs to fix the pet AI. Pets blocking progress is bad AI and bad for gameplay.

2. I'd want more data to determine if I were truly lucky, but pets blocking progress in busy crafting areas did not occur for me anywhere near as often as forum horror stories would lead me to believe, even during the busiest crafting weeks of the year over time. That was a very unexpected result for me - I expected much worse judging by the forums.


Again, sorry if that seems unempathetic. I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

Do you craft daily writs? Write it down how often you have to move over to get at a crafting station or writ turn in box.
Me: 3 partial blockages in 2 weeks, 9 characters daily, Vivec and Alinor.

Pets blocking your banker or a regular questgiver? Keep track of your visits, marking how many partial or conplete blockages you get out of total visits.

That's the sort of data that really helps ZOS see "Hey, this is really a daily/weekly/monthly/once in a blue moon problem for players and we should get on with fixing this!"

Wow...so it comes down to ...if it doesn't happen to you...it doesn't happen. Your experiment is really a poor one...your own characters...at your own time frames...so it must be empirical evidence. Its still a very small data pool. By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me. The fact that there have been recent threads & even more over the years is also evidence that its occurring for some. Just because I don't have performance issues in Cyrodil for example...does not mean that others don't.

TheTwistedRune

While I don’t RP myself, I know many people who do that would not agree with or like some of the ideas been thrown around in this thread.

When you start limiting what players can and cannot do in certain areas you are going to displease some people. I suppose you could say “Just RP elsewhere” but then they could very easily counter with “find a crafting station elsewhere”.

I agree this “problem” needs a solution, but restricting what players can do is not a good one.

VaranisArano

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This is what, the 3rd recent thread covering this exact same topic? It doesnt even say anything new we didnt discuss to death the first 2 times.

In my experience:

During the Anniversary Event when everyone and their mother was doing crafting writs, I did mine at Vivec and Alinor, two busy locations.

For those two weeks, every time there was a pet in the way, I took at most 3 steps to the side and could access the station/turn in box.

The NPC that ZOS stuck in the middle of Vivec's turn in boxes was more annoying.

I have yet to have a pet actually block me from accessing a crafting station or quest NPC in a way that I couldn't simply move around a little bit in order to gain access. I don't know if I'm just lucky...but I doubt it.

Yeah...I thought that too...Wrong. The other day someone had their bear ontop of the the vendor in Summerset completely. People kept trying to access it as did I. If it had a sweet spot accessible I could not find it. I did run to a vendor inside the crafting area but it was annoying. Try having a little empathy for others rather than yourself and only what you experience.

Its the 3rd thread in less than that many weeks saying the exact same thing. Sorry, my empathy bucket is about dry - I spent most of it on the first two threads.

So I'll be blunt.

We humans disproportionately remember bad experiences. We forget the good ones or times when nothing happened. That's just how we humans work. That's the reason I said I paid attention to pets blocking progress for 2 weeks, the 2 busiest crafting weeks of the year on multiple characters in busy locations.

These threads attract a preponderance if horroe stories from people who have bad experiences with pets.

But, crucially, that's not actually evidence that those experiences are common to all players. (Rather it is evidence that its a common experience to the forum posters who self select to comment on a complaint thread about pets, go figure.)

I went into the Anniversary Event expecting to see pets block my progress severely. After all, its talked a lot about on the forums, so I should see it, right?

I was surprised when the pets were minor annoyances. Maybe I was lucky. I'll have to continue the experiment next year, and maybe more people will join me.


If I were to conclude anything from my experiment, it would be:
1. Even if pets rarely block progress partially, and presumably complete blockage is even rarer...ZOS still needs to fix the pet AI. Pets blocking progress is bad AI and bad for gameplay.

2. I'd want more data to determine if I were truly lucky, but pets blocking progress in busy crafting areas did not occur for me anywhere near as often as forum horror stories would lead me to believe, even during the busiest crafting weeks of the year over time. That was a very unexpected result for me - I expected much worse judging by the forums.


Again, sorry if that seems unempathetic. I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

Do you craft daily writs? Write it down how often you have to move over to get at a crafting station or writ turn in box.
Me: 3 partial blockages in 2 weeks, 9 characters daily, Vivec and Alinor.

Pets blocking your banker or a regular questgiver? Keep track of your visits, marking how many partial or conplete blockages you get out of total visits.

That's the sort of data that really helps ZOS see "Hey, this is really a daily/weekly/monthly/once in a blue moon problem for players and we should get on with fixing this!"

Wow...so it comes down to ...if it doesn't happen to you...it doesn't happen. Your experiment is really a poor one...your own characters...at your own time frames...so it must be empirical evidence. Its still a very small data pool. By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me. The fact that there have been recent threads & even more over the years is also evidence that its occurring for some. Just because I don't have performance issues in Cyrodil for example...does not mean that others don't.

Really? Did I call you a liar and claim pets blocking progress never, ever happens to anyone? Nope. I did not.

I acknowledge(d) it happens. Duh. I specifically referenced the horror stories I've heard on three threads now.

I don't question that it happens. I do question how often it happens, because very rarely does anyone provide that crucial context. I appreciate you adding some context to your original horror story - I wish more posters did that.

I hope that clears that up.


My point is a good bit more complicated than you suggest Here's what annoys the complainers: I argue that without the crucial context of how often pets blocking progress happens over time, its downright impossible for ZOS to determine how often it happens, which is a necessary component of figuring out how severe a problem is and how to prioritize its fix.

Pets blocking progress: Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

Figuring out how often it happens and how severe the problem is a crucial aspect for any player, like me, who wants to convince ZOS to dedicate time and resources to fixing it.

Doing that requires data and observations.

And frankly, if my two weeks is a small data pool (which I fully admit it is), then you ought to understand why I don't regard the collected anecdotes of forum posters self-selecting to complain about pets on a pet complaint thread as good data either (its a small pool of inherently biased data with zero context for how often that happens). The vast majority of complaints are good at proving "ZOS, this problem happens!" They are useless at proving "ZOS, this is happening often enough that you need to prioritize it." (See the above comments about human nature remembering the bad unless you take deliberate steps to place it all in its proper context)

Even your own horror story just got modified with its context: "By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me." You see why I'm pushing for context? Thank you, by the way, for providing that vital context for understanding how often this occurs for you.


Context is necessary to figure out how often the problem occurs.

Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

ZOS cares about the answer to that when it comes to prioritizing fixes! The more players we get sharing their experiences in context, the better chance we have of convincing ZOS.


I want this pets blocking progress issue fixed.

That's why I ended my post with a call for more people to do a similar experiment so we have a bigger data pool so that - for anyone who wants ZOS to take this problem seriously - they have something approaching empirical evidence that "Hey, ZOS, this is serious, common, and you should do something about it!"

If we're going to convince ZOS to prioritize a fix for the problem, the best way is not with no-context horror stories, but instead with the observational evidence we players can gather that this is a commonly occuring, severe problem within the coxtext of everyday gameplay.

Thus, my challenge: I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

That's the best way to gather the data we need to convince ZOS this fix needs to be a priority.



But no, you are absolutely right, I don't care about anyone other than me and what I see.

If you want to continue this conversation, please, let's engage with what I actually said. Thank you.

Noggin_the_Nog

TheTwistedRune wrote: »

I agree this “problem” needs a solution, but restricting what players can do is not a good one.

Last night I was doing crafting writs in Rawl'. Pets everywhere. Usually can move around them at crafting stations, but not in the bank. Each time there were 3 or 4 Twilights in the small bank. Just impossible to interact with the bankers.

It's so rude to have summoned pets in there.

Perashim

Make it so pets unsummon themselves in cities/crafting areas and then reappear when you enter combat only.

Mettaricana

Was disappointed with summoning get a lame scamp clan fear and twilight... when i first started i wanted atronachs so far across 2 classes we can only summon 2 atros flesh and storm...

Perashim

Mettaricana wrote: »

Was disappointed with summoning get a lame scamp clan fear and twilight... when i first started i wanted atronachs so far across 2 classes we can only summon 2 atros flesh and storm...

Would be pretty awesome if one of the scamp's morphs was a Flame Atronach rather than scamp 2.0.

phileunderx2

Recently at the Elden Root undaunted enclave 2 bears were blocking one of the quest givers and there owners had no intention of moving either. After 5 minutes I dropped my necro ulti and of course mass chaos ensued. Anyway it was enough to shift one of the bears so I could pick up my quest. I shouldn't have to go to such extremes to just pick up a quest.

Araneae6537

Maybe combat pets could automatically be dismissed in crafting and banking areas, etc. — the same way you’re dismounted upon entering certain areas? Those twilight matriarchs are especially obnoxious and often in the way.

Nordic__Knights

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This is what, the 3rd recent thread covering this exact same topic? It doesnt even say anything new we didnt discuss to death the first 2 times.

In my experience:

During the Anniversary Event when everyone and their mother was doing crafting writs, I did mine at Vivec and Alinor, two busy locations.

For those two weeks, every time there was a pet in the way, I took at most 3 steps to the side and could access the station/turn in box.

The NPC that ZOS stuck in the middle of Vivec's turn in boxes was more annoying.

I have yet to have a pet actually block me from accessing a crafting station or quest NPC in a way that I couldn't simply move around a little bit in order to gain access. I don't know if I'm just lucky...but I doubt it.

Yeah...I thought that too...Wrong. The other day someone had their bear ontop of the the vendor in Summerset completely. People kept trying to access it as did I. If it had a sweet spot accessible I could not find it. I did run to a vendor inside the crafting area but it was annoying. Try having a little empathy for others rather than yourself and only what you experience.

Its the 3rd thread in less than that many weeks saying the exact same thing. Sorry, my empathy bucket is about dry - I spent most of it on the first two threads.

So I'll be blunt.

We humans disproportionately remember bad experiences. We forget the good ones or times when nothing happened. That's just how we humans work. That's the reason I said I paid attention to pets blocking progress for 2 weeks, the 2 busiest crafting weeks of the year on multiple characters in busy locations.

These threads attract a preponderance if horroe stories from people who have bad experiences with pets.

But, crucially, that's not actually evidence that those experiences are common to all players. (Rather it is evidence that its a common experience to the forum posters who self select to comment on a complaint thread about pets, go figure.)

I went into the Anniversary Event expecting to see pets block my progress severely. After all, its talked a lot about on the forums, so I should see it, right?

I was surprised when the pets were minor annoyances. Maybe I was lucky. I'll have to continue the experiment next year, and maybe more people will join me.


If I were to conclude anything from my experiment, it would be:
1. Even if pets rarely block progress partially, and presumably complete blockage is even rarer...ZOS still needs to fix the pet AI. Pets blocking progress is bad AI and bad for gameplay.

2. I'd want more data to determine if I were truly lucky, but pets blocking progress in busy crafting areas did not occur for me anywhere near as often as forum horror stories would lead me to believe, even during the busiest crafting weeks of the year over time. That was a very unexpected result for me - I expected much worse judging by the forums.


Again, sorry if that seems unempathetic. I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

Do you craft daily writs? Write it down how often you have to move over to get at a crafting station or writ turn in box.
Me: 3 partial blockages in 2 weeks, 9 characters daily, Vivec and Alinor.

Pets blocking your banker or a regular questgiver? Keep track of your visits, marking how many partial or conplete blockages you get out of total visits.

That's the sort of data that really helps ZOS see "Hey, this is really a daily/weekly/monthly/once in a blue moon problem for players and we should get on with fixing this!"

Wow...so it comes down to ...if it doesn't happen to you...it doesn't happen. Your experiment is really a poor one...your own characters...at your own time frames...so it must be empirical evidence. Its still a very small data pool. By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me. The fact that there have been recent threads & even more over the years is also evidence that its occurring for some. Just because I don't have performance issues in Cyrodil for example...does not mean that others don't.

Really? Did I call you a liar and claim pets blocking progress never, ever happens to anyone? Nope. I did not.

I acknowledge(d) it happens. Duh. I specifically referenced the horror stories I've heard on three threads now.

I don't question that it happens. I do question how often it happens, because very rarely does anyone provide that crucial context. I appreciate you adding some context to your original horror story - I wish more posters did that.

I hope that clears that up.


My point is a good bit more complicated than you suggest Here's what annoys the complainers: I argue that without the crucial context of how often pets blocking progress happens over time, its downright impossible for ZOS to determine how often it happens, which is a necessary component of figuring out how severe a problem is and how to prioritize its fix.

Pets blocking progress: Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

Figuring out how often it happens and how severe the problem is a crucial aspect for any player, like me, who wants to convince ZOS to dedicate time and resources to fixing it.

Doing that requires data and observations.

And frankly, if my two weeks is a small data pool (which I fully admit it is), then you ought to understand why I don't regard the collected anecdotes of forum posters self-selecting to complain about pets on a pet complaint thread as good data either (its a small pool of inherently biased data with zero context for how often that happens). The vast majority of complaints are good at proving "ZOS, this problem happens!" They are useless at proving "ZOS, this is happening often enough that you need to prioritize it." (See the above comments about human nature remembering the bad unless you take deliberate steps to place it all in its proper context)

Even your own horror story just got modified with its context: "By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me." You see why I'm pushing for context? Thank you, by the way, for providing that vital context for understanding how often this occurs for you.


Context is necessary to figure out how often the problem occurs.

Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

ZOS cares about the answer to that when it comes to prioritizing fixes! The more players we get sharing their experiences in context, the better chance we have of convincing ZOS.


I want this pets blocking progress issue fixed.

That's why I ended my post with a call for more people to do a similar experiment so we have a bigger data pool so that - for anyone who wants ZOS to take this problem seriously - they have something approaching empirical evidence that "Hey, ZOS, this is serious, common, and you should do something about it!"

If we're going to convince ZOS to prioritize a fix for the problem, the best way is not with no-context horror stories, but instead with the observational evidence we players can gather that this is a commonly occuring, severe problem within the coxtext of everyday gameplay.

Thus, my challenge: I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

That's the best way to gather the data we need to convince ZOS this fix needs to be a priority.



But no, you are absolutely right, I don't care about anyone other than me and what I see.

If you want to continue this conversation, please, let's engage with what I actually said. Thank you.

It happens to me daily on 5 to 6 if not 7 of my character's per day while doing crafting and has happened in this crafting Hall since day one of Summerset drop as I had found a genuine hub for do my crafting dailies
And to be honest when it was built I don't think they had Sorcerers in mine I believe they had the Crafters who done there crafting dailies and gave us a locationsthat we've been asking for forever but yet now it's being destroyed by pets being allowed to run around within it and if you notice the door Dismounts you???? I wish it would D pet yeah!!!!!!!!! If not at all think of easy and make summerset crafting AREA pet free starting at 2nd doorway just like mounts

Androconium

Tandor wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This is what, the 3rd recent thread covering this exact same topic? It doesnt even say anything new we didnt discuss to death the first 2 times.

In my experience:

During the Anniversary Event when everyone and their mother was doing crafting writs, I did mine at Vivec and Alinor, two busy locations.

For those two weeks, every time there was a pet in the way, I took at most 3 steps to the side and could access the station/turn in box.

The NPC that ZOS stuck in the middle of Vivec's turn in boxes was more annoying.

I have yet to have a pet actually block me from accessing a crafting station or quest NPC in a way that I couldn't simply move around a little bit in order to gain access. I don't know if I'm just lucky...but I doubt it.

Agreed. In my experience mounts are far more of a nuisance than pets. Not to mention duels...

Duels.

VaranisArano

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This is what, the 3rd recent thread covering this exact same topic? It doesnt even say anything new we didnt discuss to death the first 2 times.

In my experience:

During the Anniversary Event when everyone and their mother was doing crafting writs, I did mine at Vivec and Alinor, two busy locations.

For those two weeks, every time there was a pet in the way, I took at most 3 steps to the side and could access the station/turn in box.

The NPC that ZOS stuck in the middle of Vivec's turn in boxes was more annoying.

I have yet to have a pet actually block me from accessing a crafting station or quest NPC in a way that I couldn't simply move around a little bit in order to gain access. I don't know if I'm just lucky...but I doubt it.

Yeah...I thought that too...Wrong. The other day someone had their bear ontop of the the vendor in Summerset completely. People kept trying to access it as did I. If it had a sweet spot accessible I could not find it. I did run to a vendor inside the crafting area but it was annoying. Try having a little empathy for others rather than yourself and only what you experience.

Its the 3rd thread in less than that many weeks saying the exact same thing. Sorry, my empathy bucket is about dry - I spent most of it on the first two threads.

So I'll be blunt.

We humans disproportionately remember bad experiences. We forget the good ones or times when nothing happened. That's just how we humans work. That's the reason I said I paid attention to pets blocking progress for 2 weeks, the 2 busiest crafting weeks of the year on multiple characters in busy locations.

These threads attract a preponderance if horroe stories from people who have bad experiences with pets.

But, crucially, that's not actually evidence that those experiences are common to all players. (Rather it is evidence that its a common experience to the forum posters who self select to comment on a complaint thread about pets, go figure.)

I went into the Anniversary Event expecting to see pets block my progress severely. After all, its talked a lot about on the forums, so I should see it, right?

I was surprised when the pets were minor annoyances. Maybe I was lucky. I'll have to continue the experiment next year, and maybe more people will join me.


If I were to conclude anything from my experiment, it would be:
1. Even if pets rarely block progress partially, and presumably complete blockage is even rarer...ZOS still needs to fix the pet AI. Pets blocking progress is bad AI and bad for gameplay.

2. I'd want more data to determine if I were truly lucky, but pets blocking progress in busy crafting areas did not occur for me anywhere near as often as forum horror stories would lead me to believe, even during the busiest crafting weeks of the year over time. That was a very unexpected result for me - I expected much worse judging by the forums.


Again, sorry if that seems unempathetic. I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

Do you craft daily writs? Write it down how often you have to move over to get at a crafting station or writ turn in box.
Me: 3 partial blockages in 2 weeks, 9 characters daily, Vivec and Alinor.

Pets blocking your banker or a regular questgiver? Keep track of your visits, marking how many partial or conplete blockages you get out of total visits.

That's the sort of data that really helps ZOS see "Hey, this is really a daily/weekly/monthly/once in a blue moon problem for players and we should get on with fixing this!"

Wow...so it comes down to ...if it doesn't happen to you...it doesn't happen. Your experiment is really a poor one...your own characters...at your own time frames...so it must be empirical evidence. Its still a very small data pool. By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me. The fact that there have been recent threads & even more over the years is also evidence that its occurring for some. Just because I don't have performance issues in Cyrodil for example...does not mean that others don't.

Really? Did I call you a liar and claim pets blocking progress never, ever happens to anyone? Nope. I did not.

I acknowledge(d) it happens. Duh. I specifically referenced the horror stories I've heard on three threads now.

I don't question that it happens. I do question how often it happens, because very rarely does anyone provide that crucial context. I appreciate you adding some context to your original horror story - I wish more posters did that.

I hope that clears that up.


My point is a good bit more complicated than you suggest Here's what annoys the complainers: I argue that without the crucial context of how often pets blocking progress happens over time, its downright impossible for ZOS to determine how often it happens, which is a necessary component of figuring out how severe a problem is and how to prioritize its fix.

Pets blocking progress: Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

Figuring out how often it happens and how severe the problem is a crucial aspect for any player, like me, who wants to convince ZOS to dedicate time and resources to fixing it.

Doing that requires data and observations.

And frankly, if my two weeks is a small data pool (which I fully admit it is), then you ought to understand why I don't regard the collected anecdotes of forum posters self-selecting to complain about pets on a pet complaint thread as good data either (its a small pool of inherently biased data with zero context for how often that happens). The vast majority of complaints are good at proving "ZOS, this problem happens!" They are useless at proving "ZOS, this is happening often enough that you need to prioritize it." (See the above comments about human nature remembering the bad unless you take deliberate steps to place it all in its proper context)

Even your own horror story just got modified with its context: "By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me." You see why I'm pushing for context? Thank you, by the way, for providing that vital context for understanding how often this occurs for you.


Context is necessary to figure out how often the problem occurs.

Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

ZOS cares about the answer to that when it comes to prioritizing fixes! The more players we get sharing their experiences in context, the better chance we have of convincing ZOS.


I want this pets blocking progress issue fixed.

That's why I ended my post with a call for more people to do a similar experiment so we have a bigger data pool so that - for anyone who wants ZOS to take this problem seriously - they have something approaching empirical evidence that "Hey, ZOS, this is serious, common, and you should do something about it!"

If we're going to convince ZOS to prioritize a fix for the problem, the best way is not with no-context horror stories, but instead with the observational evidence we players can gather that this is a commonly occuring, severe problem within the coxtext of everyday gameplay.

Thus, my challenge: I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

That's the best way to gather the data we need to convince ZOS this fix needs to be a priority.



But no, you are absolutely right, I don't care about anyone other than me and what I see.

If you want to continue this conversation, please, let's engage with what I actually said. Thank you.

It happens to me daily on 5 to 6 if not 7 of my character's per day while doing crafting and has happened in this crafting Hall since day one of Summerset drop as I had found a genuine hub for do my crafting dailies
And to be honest when it was built I don't think they had Sorcerers in mine I believe they had the Crafters who done there crafting dailies and gave us a hole that we've been asking for forever but yet now it's being destroyed by pets being allowed to run around within it and if you notice the door Dismount you I wish you D pet yeah

Thanks for the context of how often this happens to you!

Out of curiosity for the severity, is this completely blocking access or can you access what you need after moving around a bit? (Assuming the same target, instead of moving to the other crafting station for that type - I think Alinor has duplicate stations for all but provisioning?)

FlopsyPrince

Why must I take the loss of max magicka (Nercopotence gear perk) in town?

I have yet to hear someone crying about "irresponsible pet owners" focus on the easy solution - get pets to act better in the game. Make them stay out of the way on purpose. Add a repulsive field to NPCs and turnin stations.

My pet gets in my own way many times, but unsommoning it has costs and is far from easy. (I am on the PS4.)

They could fix things, but instead many demand players do without part of what makes the game fun for them (running with a pet).

Nordic__Knights

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Mannix1958 wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

This is what, the 3rd recent thread covering this exact same topic? It doesnt even say anything new we didnt discuss to death the first 2 times.

In my experience:

During the Anniversary Event when everyone and their mother was doing crafting writs, I did mine at Vivec and Alinor, two busy locations.

For those two weeks, every time there was a pet in the way, I took at most 3 steps to the side and could access the station/turn in box.

The NPC that ZOS stuck in the middle of Vivec's turn in boxes was more annoying.

I have yet to have a pet actually block me from accessing a crafting station or quest NPC in a way that I couldn't simply move around a little bit in order to gain access. I don't know if I'm just lucky...but I doubt it.

Yeah...I thought that too...Wrong. The other day someone had their bear ontop of the the vendor in Summerset completely. People kept trying to access it as did I. If it had a sweet spot accessible I could not find it. I did run to a vendor inside the crafting area but it was annoying. Try having a little empathy for others rather than yourself and only what you experience.

Its the 3rd thread in less than that many weeks saying the exact same thing. Sorry, my empathy bucket is about dry - I spent most of it on the first two threads.

So I'll be blunt.

We humans disproportionately remember bad experiences. We forget the good ones or times when nothing happened. That's just how we humans work. That's the reason I said I paid attention to pets blocking progress for 2 weeks, the 2 busiest crafting weeks of the year on multiple characters in busy locations.

These threads attract a preponderance if horroe stories from people who have bad experiences with pets.

But, crucially, that's not actually evidence that those experiences are common to all players. (Rather it is evidence that its a common experience to the forum posters who self select to comment on a complaint thread about pets, go figure.)

I went into the Anniversary Event expecting to see pets block my progress severely. After all, its talked a lot about on the forums, so I should see it, right?

I was surprised when the pets were minor annoyances. Maybe I was lucky. I'll have to continue the experiment next year, and maybe more people will join me.


If I were to conclude anything from my experiment, it would be:
1. Even if pets rarely block progress partially, and presumably complete blockage is even rarer...ZOS still needs to fix the pet AI. Pets blocking progress is bad AI and bad for gameplay.

2. I'd want more data to determine if I were truly lucky, but pets blocking progress in busy crafting areas did not occur for me anywhere near as often as forum horror stories would lead me to believe, even during the busiest crafting weeks of the year over time. That was a very unexpected result for me - I expected much worse judging by the forums.


Again, sorry if that seems unempathetic. I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

Do you craft daily writs? Write it down how often you have to move over to get at a crafting station or writ turn in box.
Me: 3 partial blockages in 2 weeks, 9 characters daily, Vivec and Alinor.

Pets blocking your banker or a regular questgiver? Keep track of your visits, marking how many partial or conplete blockages you get out of total visits.

That's the sort of data that really helps ZOS see "Hey, this is really a daily/weekly/monthly/once in a blue moon problem for players and we should get on with fixing this!"

Wow...so it comes down to ...if it doesn't happen to you...it doesn't happen. Your experiment is really a poor one...your own characters...at your own time frames...so it must be empirical evidence. Its still a very small data pool. By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me. The fact that there have been recent threads & even more over the years is also evidence that its occurring for some. Just because I don't have performance issues in Cyrodil for example...does not mean that others don't.

Really? Did I call you a liar and claim pets blocking progress never, ever happens to anyone? Nope. I did not.

I acknowledge(d) it happens. Duh. I specifically referenced the horror stories I've heard on three threads now.

I don't question that it happens. I do question how often it happens, because very rarely does anyone provide that crucial context. I appreciate you adding some context to your original horror story - I wish more posters did that.

I hope that clears that up.


My point is a good bit more complicated than you suggest Here's what annoys the complainers: I argue that without the crucial context of how often pets blocking progress happens over time, its downright impossible for ZOS to determine how often it happens, which is a necessary component of figuring out how severe a problem is and how to prioritize its fix.

Pets blocking progress: Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

Figuring out how often it happens and how severe the problem is a crucial aspect for any player, like me, who wants to convince ZOS to dedicate time and resources to fixing it.

Doing that requires data and observations.

And frankly, if my two weeks is a small data pool (which I fully admit it is), then you ought to understand why I don't regard the collected anecdotes of forum posters self-selecting to complain about pets on a pet complaint thread as good data either (its a small pool of inherently biased data with zero context for how often that happens). The vast majority of complaints are good at proving "ZOS, this problem happens!" They are useless at proving "ZOS, this is happening often enough that you need to prioritize it." (See the above comments about human nature remembering the bad unless you take deliberate steps to place it all in its proper context)

Even your own horror story just got modified with its context: "By the way I have 18 crafters that craft daily and I crafted during the Anniversary event too. I never said it happens a lot to me." You see why I'm pushing for context? Thank you, by the way, for providing that vital context for understanding how often this occurs for you.


Context is necessary to figure out how often the problem occurs.

Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Once in a blue moon?

ZOS cares about the answer to that when it comes to prioritizing fixes! The more players we get sharing their experiences in context, the better chance we have of convincing ZOS.


I want this pets blocking progress issue fixed.

That's why I ended my post with a call for more people to do a similar experiment so we have a bigger data pool so that - for anyone who wants ZOS to take this problem seriously - they have something approaching empirical evidence that "Hey, ZOS, this is serious, common, and you should do something about it!"

If we're going to convince ZOS to prioritize a fix for the problem, the best way is not with no-context horror stories, but instead with the observational evidence we players can gather that this is a commonly occuring, severe problem within the coxtext of everyday gameplay.

Thus, my challenge: I'd challenge anyone wanting to really make a difference on the "Pets Blocking Progress" issue to do what I did: make a record over time of how often you experience pets blocking progress vs how often you don't.

That's the best way to gather the data we need to convince ZOS this fix needs to be a priority.



But no, you are absolutely right, I don't care about anyone other than me and what I see.

If you want to continue this conversation, please, let's engage with what I actually said. Thank you.

It happens to me daily on 5 to 6 if not 7 of my character's per day while doing crafting and has happened in this crafting Hall since day one of Summerset drop as I had found a genuine hub for do my crafting dailies
And to be honest when it was built I don't think they had Sorcerers in mine I believe they had the Crafters who done there crafting dailies and gave us a hole that we've been asking for forever but yet now it's being destroyed by pets being allowed to run around within it and if you notice the door Dismount you I wish you D pet yeah

Thanks for the context of how often this happens to you!

Out of curiosity for the severity, is this completely blocking access or can you access what you need after moving around a bit? (Assuming the same target, instead of moving to the other crafting station for that type - I think Alinor has duplicate stations for all but provisioning?)

35% id say both tables covered and 60% i can walk around but when doing so everyday with more then half of my toons when trying to get something done as fast as possible it becomes an annoyance fast
And that's not even talking about the blacksmith anvils cuz they're already small as it is I mean I'm not mad about that half the time I understand it to a point but the big tables that's the biggest problem and it shows that it's a problem
I have also try to adjust what time I done my crafting I mean I switch from dungeon time to crafting time I've reverted to doing it three different ways so I mean and it's slim to none the change throughout the day within this location