Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Remember, that we have new Onslaught... (as if this ulti required a buff lol). So idk if stacking as much resistance as posible is good idea.
The point is, it gives you full pen for 12 seconds. Can be hard to do anything to counter it, if some one will use it as an opener and hit (example from stealth or invisibility potion) and then combo it with gap closer & AOE spam.
btw. Does Dual Wield Whirlwind skill morph still has build in execute ? Can be pretty devastating with full pen...
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Remember, that we have new Onslaught... (as if this ulti required a buff lol). So idk if stacking as much resistance as posible is good idea.
The point is, it gives you full pen for 12 seconds. Can be hard to do anything to counter it, if some one will use it as an opener and hit (example from stealth or invisibility potion) and then combo it with gap closer & AOE spam.
btw. Does Dual Wield Whirlwind skill morph still has build in execute ? Can be pretty devastating with full pen...
Thinking of different builds, I am starting to realize that some weird semi-hybrids with restoration staff for RR and 2H for onslaught will be a way to go.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Remember, that we have new Onslaught... (as if this ulti required a buff lol). So idk if stacking as much resistance as posible is good idea.
The point is, it gives you full pen for 12 seconds. Can be hard to do anything to counter it, if some one will use it as an opener and hit (example from stealth or invisibility potion) and then combo it with gap closer & AOE spam.
btw. Does Dual Wield Whirlwind skill morph still has build in execute ? Can be pretty devastating with full pen...
Thinking of different builds, I am starting to realize that some weird semi-hybrids with restoration staff for RR and 2H for onslaught will be a way to go.
Thinking along the same lines. You don't need to stack off-resources nearly as high if all you are looking to do is get a heal to a certain level.
Defiles are going to be absolutely brutal in a dot vs. healing meta.
I’m kinda pissed lol. ZOS finally buffs shuffle and then turns around and completely *** medium armor. So much for the best year ever and the shiny new combat team. Whatever method they had for making changes is still in place. Although honestly I’m not sure that even heavy will be any good against magicka builds and dots this patch.
MartiniDaniels wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Remember, that we have new Onslaught... (as if this ulti required a buff lol). So idk if stacking as much resistance as posible is good idea.
The point is, it gives you full pen for 12 seconds. Can be hard to do anything to counter it, if some one will use it as an opener and hit (example from stealth or invisibility potion) and then combo it with gap closer & AOE spam.
btw. Does Dual Wield Whirlwind skill morph still has build in execute ? Can be pretty devastating with full pen...
Thinking of different builds, I am starting to realize that some weird semi-hybrids with restoration staff for RR and 2H for onslaught will be a way to go.
Thinking along the same lines. You don't need to stack off-resources nearly as high if all you are looking to do is get a heal to a certain level.
Defiles are going to be absolutely brutal in a dot vs. healing meta.
Where is defile ?
Minor defile from snipe maybe, but 15% defile is not a problem when healing modifiers + crits are there.
The main defile source was reverbatingbashtard applying major defile, and it's gone.
Only few set bring defile and with a low uptime.
Interesting.
Was Heavy nerfed in any way since the beginning of PTS? Was it just Medium that got buffed?
coz with DoT going full power now, stam build will need all the resistance we can get....
Bah, do I need to bring up my 7th legion armors again?
To be honest, I think light armor is going to hurt this patch too. Probably see a lot of heavy magicka builds.
Urzigurumash wrote: »To be honest, I think light armor is going to hurt this patch too. Probably see a lot of heavy magicka builds.
Could this be balance from an unexpected approach? What are your thoughts on why this is necessarily not a good thing? On why it is not ok that Heavy be the preference for most players in Cyrodiil, that only the most elite ninjas, samurais, wizards and monks can pull off Medium and Light?
Note in a 12 man PvE team, 1/6 of the team is usually in Heavy, 5/6 are usually not.
The problem with this being inverted in PvP, where only 1/6 are not in Heavy, is what exactly, that TTK will be too long and it leads to excessively tiresome fights? Or that it demands too much adaptation for the majority of players accustomed to playing as a DD in Medium or Light in PvE?
heavy will end up being gutted down the road when Zenimax inevitably thinks that everyone's running heavy because heavy is OP, when everyone's running heavy because it's the only way you can enjoy PVP.
Urzigurumash wrote: »heavy will end up being gutted down the road when Zenimax inevitably thinks that everyone's running heavy because heavy is OP, when everyone's running heavy because it's the only way you can enjoy PVP.
Thank you for clarifying. My thought was that this may not be true, insofar as it's not true of the role of the armor weights in PvE. It's understood only a few players are in Heavy, it has nothing to do with what's OP or not, it is how things are balanced.
Urzigurumash wrote: »heavy will end up being gutted down the road when Zenimax inevitably thinks that everyone's running heavy because heavy is OP, when everyone's running heavy because it's the only way you can enjoy PVP.
Thank you for clarifying. My thought was that this may not be true, insofar as it's not true of the role of the armor weights in PvE. It's understood only a few players are in Heavy, it has nothing to do with what's OP or not, it is how things are balanced.
How viable/valuable certain armour weights are compared to other weights differ completely between PvE and PvP. You can afford to build for optimal damage in PvE, because you (ideally) have other players carrying your survival (tanks are keeping you from taking too much damage, healers are keeping your health topped up for the inevitable damage you do end up taking).
In PvP, however, you can't afford to because you can't rely on other players to carry your survival. In a coordinated group, you may have a healer to keep your health topped up, but you still need to build for mitigation to reduce the damage you take, and you also need to consider moments where the healer can't heal you, whether it be they died, or you just got separated. Outside of coordinated groups, you also need to build for self-healing in addition to the mitigation.
With that in mind, while you really only see heavy being used on tanks in PvE, PvP is a very common weight for both tanks and stamina damage dealers in PvP, because of the natural mitigation offered by heavy, in addition to the health and healing bonuses, and the fact that you don't need to give up much to build for damage in heavy. Medium offers more damage and sustain, but you can get that damage and sustain in heavy, while also being tankier.
Consider this when reading the Scalebreaker patch notes next week. Damage from DOT's has gone up, while the effectiveness of protective (allows you to build for resists while in medium) and Vigor have gone down. Medium already forced players to make the choice between damage/sustain and survival, and it just had two of the survival tools it used nerfed, while damage has gone up.
I don't think people will run medium when they'll need to invest so heavily into survival, just to stand a chance against everybody else. Light may be able to survive with the buffs to resto, but I think we'll see heavy become even more prevalent than it already is next patch, simply because it isn't worth it to build around medium anymore.
As I said, in my opinion, each weight should have its own viable form of survival. Light should build around shields to mitigate damage similarly to heavy at the cost of resources and other skill casts, medium should build around dodging and generally being hard to hit to prevent damage being taken in the first place, heavy should build around passive mitigation and healing. Heavy should be the strongest passive survival weight, but light and medium should have their own forms of survival that can be just as strong as heavy, when put in the right hands. Of course with counters in place, to make it a fair fight.
Urzigurumash wrote: »heavy will end up being gutted down the road when Zenimax inevitably thinks that everyone's running heavy because heavy is OP, when everyone's running heavy because it's the only way you can enjoy PVP.
Thank you for clarifying. My thought was that this may not be true, insofar as it's not true of the role of the armor weights in PvE. It's understood only a few players are in Heavy, it has nothing to do with what's OP or not, it is how things are balanced.
How viable/valuable certain armour weights are compared to other weights differ completely between PvE and PvP. You can afford to build for optimal damage in PvE, because you (ideally) have other players carrying your survival (tanks are keeping you from taking too much damage, healers are keeping your health topped up for the inevitable damage you do end up taking).
In PvP, however, you can't afford to because you can't rely on other players to carry your survival. In a coordinated group, you may have a healer to keep your health topped up, but you still need to build for mitigation to reduce the damage you take, and you also need to consider moments where the healer can't heal you, whether it be they died, or you just got separated. Outside of coordinated groups, you also need to build for self-healing in addition to the mitigation.
With that in mind, while you really only see heavy being used on tanks in PvE, PvP is a very common weight for both tanks and stamina damage dealers in PvP, because of the natural mitigation offered by heavy, in addition to the health and healing bonuses, and the fact that you don't need to give up much to build for damage in heavy. Medium offers more damage and sustain, but you can get that damage and sustain in heavy, while also being tankier.
Consider this when reading the Scalebreaker patch notes next week. Damage from DOT's has gone up, while the effectiveness of protective (allows you to build for resists while in medium) and Vigor have gone down. Medium already forced players to make the choice between damage/sustain and survival, and it just had two of the survival tools it used nerfed, while damage has gone up.
I don't think people will run medium when they'll need to invest so heavily into survival, just to stand a chance against everybody else. Light may be able to survive with the buffs to resto, but I think we'll see heavy become even more prevalent than it already is next patch, simply because it isn't worth it to build around medium anymore.
As I said, in my opinion, each weight should have its own viable form of survival. Light should build around shields to mitigate damage similarly to heavy at the cost of resources and other skill casts, medium should build around dodging and generally being hard to hit to prevent damage being taken in the first place, heavy should build around passive mitigation and healing. Heavy should be the strongest passive survival weight, but light and medium should have their own forms of survival that can be just as strong as heavy, when put in the right hands. Of course with counters in place, to make it a fair fight.
Saril_Durzam wrote: »We have nothing to do but adapt. At least stamina users didnt have dodge rolls nerfed,
Urzigurumash wrote: »heavy will end up being gutted down the road when Zenimax inevitably thinks that everyone's running heavy because heavy is OP, when everyone's running heavy because it's the only way you can enjoy PVP.
Thank you for clarifying. My thought was that this may not be true, insofar as it's not true of the role of the armor weights in PvE. It's understood only a few players are in Heavy, it has nothing to do with what's OP or not, it is how things are balanced.
How viable/valuable certain armour weights are compared to other weights differ completely between PvE and PvP. You can afford to build for optimal damage in PvE, because you (ideally) have other players carrying your survival (tanks are keeping you from taking too much damage, healers are keeping your health topped up for the inevitable damage you do end up taking).
In PvP, however, you can't afford to because you can't rely on other players to carry your survival. In a coordinated group, you may have a healer to keep your health topped up, but you still need to build for mitigation to reduce the damage you take, and you also need to consider moments where the healer can't heal you, whether it be they died, or you just got separated. Outside of coordinated groups, you also need to build for self-healing in addition to the mitigation.
With that in mind, while you really only see heavy being used on tanks in PvE, PvP is a very common weight for both tanks and stamina damage dealers in PvP, because of the natural mitigation offered by heavy, in addition to the health and healing bonuses, and the fact that you don't need to give up much to build for damage in heavy. Medium offers more damage and sustain, but you can get that damage and sustain in heavy, while also being tankier.
Consider this when reading the Scalebreaker patch notes next week. Damage from DOT's has gone up, while the effectiveness of protective (allows you to build for resists while in medium) and Vigor have gone down. Medium already forced players to make the choice between damage/sustain and survival, and it just had two of the survival tools it used nerfed, while damage has gone up.
I don't think people will run medium when they'll need to invest so heavily into survival, just to stand a chance against everybody else. Light may be able to survive with the buffs to resto, but I think we'll see heavy become even more prevalent than it already is next patch, simply because it isn't worth it to build around medium anymore.
As I said, in my opinion, each weight should have its own viable form of survival. Light should build around shields to mitigate damage similarly to heavy at the cost of resources and other skill casts, medium should build around dodging and generally being hard to hit to prevent damage being taken in the first place, heavy should build around passive mitigation and healing. Heavy should be the strongest passive survival weight, but light and medium should have their own forms of survival that can be just as strong as heavy, when put in the right hands. Of course with counters in place, to make it a fair fight.
So do people not want to use sets that mitigate damage with the 5 piece bonus or is that not enough.
Saril_Durzam wrote: »Urzigurumash wrote: »heavy will end up being gutted down the road when Zenimax inevitably thinks that everyone's running heavy because heavy is OP, when everyone's running heavy because it's the only way you can enjoy PVP.
Thank you for clarifying. My thought was that this may not be true, insofar as it's not true of the role of the armor weights in PvE. It's understood only a few players are in Heavy, it has nothing to do with what's OP or not, it is how things are balanced.
How viable/valuable certain armour weights are compared to other weights differ completely between PvE and PvP. You can afford to build for optimal damage in PvE, because you (ideally) have other players carrying your survival (tanks are keeping you from taking too much damage, healers are keeping your health topped up for the inevitable damage you do end up taking).
In PvP, however, you can't afford to because you can't rely on other players to carry your survival. In a coordinated group, you may have a healer to keep your health topped up, but you still need to build for mitigation to reduce the damage you take, and you also need to consider moments where the healer can't heal you, whether it be they died, or you just got separated. Outside of coordinated groups, you also need to build for self-healing in addition to the mitigation.
With that in mind, while you really only see heavy being used on tanks in PvE, PvP is a very common weight for both tanks and stamina damage dealers in PvP, because of the natural mitigation offered by heavy, in addition to the health and healing bonuses, and the fact that you don't need to give up much to build for damage in heavy. Medium offers more damage and sustain, but you can get that damage and sustain in heavy, while also being tankier.
Consider this when reading the Scalebreaker patch notes next week. Damage from DOT's has gone up, while the effectiveness of protective (allows you to build for resists while in medium) and Vigor have gone down. Medium already forced players to make the choice between damage/sustain and survival, and it just had two of the survival tools it used nerfed, while damage has gone up.
I don't think people will run medium when they'll need to invest so heavily into survival, just to stand a chance against everybody else. Light may be able to survive with the buffs to resto, but I think we'll see heavy become even more prevalent than it already is next patch, simply because it isn't worth it to build around medium anymore.
As I said, in my opinion, each weight should have its own viable form of survival. Light should build around shields to mitigate damage similarly to heavy at the cost of resources and other skill casts, medium should build around dodging and generally being hard to hit to prevent damage being taken in the first place, heavy should build around passive mitigation and healing. Heavy should be the strongest passive survival weight, but light and medium should have their own forms of survival that can be just as strong as heavy, when put in the right hands. Of course with counters in place, to make it a fair fight.
The idea of ZoS is that you will need a compromise between damage and survive; more uses of def ults (scarcely seen in PvP) and gear. That´s why Zos nerfs shields, healing skill used (Matriarch, power surge, etc...), redo VIgor buff changes, etc...
We have nothing to do but adapt. At least stamina users didnt have dodge rolls nerfed, which is really the strong point of them in PvP, and still keep being most DPS stat in PvE. And considering all Heavy and Magicka changes, i feel Stamina is the true winner of this patch.
The idea of ZoS is that you will need a compromise between damage and survive
more uses of def ults (scarcely seen in PvP)
and gear
At least stamina users didnt have dodge rolls nerfed, which is really the strong point of them in PvP,
And considering all Heavy and Magicka changes, i feel Stamina is the true winner of this patch.