SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

I am glad that it is not as much of a nerf in practice as it could have been. I like the change that means you don’t have to recast flurry in between all dots.
I maintain my point though that maelstrom weapons should outperform other things like monster helms. Maelstrom is definitely not too difficult if you are a decent player, but it is something that that prompts people to become good. That should be rewarded over content through which you can be carried.

Wait ... what change of casting flurry in between each dot ? The cruel flurry buff only consumes one dot when active for 10 seconds.

Your saying it effects all dot abilities ? Or is it reverted back to, "next single target damage over time effect ?"

Shokasegambit1 wrote: »

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

I am glad that it is not as much of a nerf in practice as it could have been. I like the change that means you don’t have to recast flurry in between all dots.
I maintain my point though that maelstrom weapons should outperform other things like monster helms. Maelstrom is definitely not too difficult if you are a decent player, but it is something that that prompts people to become good. That should be rewarded over content through which you can be carried.

Wait ... what change of casting flurry in between each dot ? The cruel flurry buff only consumes one dot when active for 10 seconds.

Your saying it effects all dot abilities ? Or is it reverted back to, "next single target damage over time effect ?"

@Shokasegambit1, the vMA dw has bee changed so that you cast it once, and it empowers all dots for the next 4 seconds. So, rather than having to go flurry - dot - flurry - dot - flurry - dot etc, you can now go flurry - dot - dot- dot - flurry etc. Still only single target directly applied dots, but still a nice change for the rotation.

It has been widely tested.
The cruel flurry effect works as follows:
You cast flurry, and then for the next 4 seconds, all single target dots that you apply to a target within 4 seconds gets a weapon and spell damage boost of 1000. That boost lasts the full duration of the dot that is applied. So as a StamDK, I can cast flurry, and then venomous claw, rending slashes, and soul trap in a row and all will gain the buff.

Exactly which skills get the boost seems to be a little vague, I have heard conflicting things as to whether noxious breath gains the bonus, and same with barbed trap, but things like burning and bleeds do seem to get buffed.

Xynode has a good video explaining the change with a parse attached,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeSWLD-m-hE

and T3hasiangod has also r3eviewed it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OY4TRtgi8A

as has NefasQS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptIvtYXj4GA

Hope that helps. It is a small nerf to the previous setup, approx 2k dps in a 90K dummy parse, but should be easier to use in a trial where mechanics push you away from the boss at times, as you will still be able to cast ranged dots for four seconds.

aoe ones like noxious and cleave would work on one of the targets hit (still does on atleast 1), barbed trap works, dw passive bleed does not

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

aoe ones like noxious and cleave would work on one of the targets hit (still does on atleast 1), barbed trap works, dw passive bleed does not

Good to know. Weird that the dw bleed doesn't get buffed. It is a target applied damage over time ability, wonder if it is a bug?

Because it doesnt scale with weapon damage

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

The_Last_Titan wrote: »

aoe ones like noxious and cleave would work on one of the targets hit (still does on atleast 1), barbed trap works, dw passive bleed does not

Good to know. Weird that the dw bleed doesn't get buffed. It is a target applied damage over time ability, wonder if it is a bug?

Because it doesnt scale with weapon damage

So, essentially they have changed bleeds from a dot that didn't need to scale because they ignored resistances to just being a dot that is weaker than all others.

No, they just changed the passive from not being affected by resistances to stronger DoT that is, resulting in probably one of strongest passives in game in PVE where resistances barely matter

Shantu wrote: »

Nerf a vMA weapon because you buffed the crap out of something else? Whack-a-mole development at it's finest.

It's not that big of a nerf and when you balance something that is affected by something yes, that's how it works.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

What nerf? It's a buff...the reason vMA is relevant at all is because ST dots were buffed, which was a huge buff for vMA builds. Next they dropped the bonus weapon damage, BUT added a 4 second duration. That's HUGE! That means you have more GCD's to deal damage. The overall result is still a colossal buff when compared with live AND with the change to 4 seconds, the rotation becomes incredibly smooth. So I ask again what nerfs?

So, a couple of things. One, the testing has confirmed that it is about a 2k nerf from live, but mostly, it is probably worth noting that this thread was started before they had announced what the change was, just that they were planning on nerfing it.

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

What nerf? It's a buff...the reason vMA is relevant at all is because ST dots were buffed, which was a huge buff for vMA builds. Next they dropped the bonus weapon damage, BUT added a 4 second duration. That's HUGE! That means you have more GCD's to deal damage. The overall result is still a colossal buff when compared with live AND with the change to 4 seconds, the rotation becomes incredibly smooth. So I ask again what nerfs?

So, a couple of things. One, the testing has confirmed that it is about a 2k nerf from live, but mostly, it is probably worth noting that this thread was started before they had announced what the change was, just that they were planning on nerfing it.

"This thread was started before they had announced what the change was"

So you think it makes sense to argue against something before you even saw what it is or tested it for yourself? Quality thinking there...

Destruent wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

What nerf? It's a buff...the reason vMA is relevant at all is because ST dots were buffed, which was a huge buff for vMA builds. Next they dropped the bonus weapon damage, BUT added a 4 second duration. That's HUGE! That means you have more GCD's to deal damage. The overall result is still a colossal buff when compared with live AND with the change to 4 seconds, the rotation becomes incredibly smooth. So I ask again what nerfs?

So, a couple of things. One, the testing has confirmed that it is about a 2k nerf from live, but mostly, it is probably worth noting that this thread was started before they had announced what the change was, just that they were planning on nerfing it.

"This thread was started before they had announced what the change was"

So you think it makes sense to argue against something before you even saw what it is or tested it for yourself? Quality thinking there...

normal forum behaviour

Becuase they can't answer real questions like this...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6250367

they just continue to cry. This community has genueinly losts it minds.

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

What nerf? It's a buff...the reason vMA is relevant at all is because ST dots were buffed, which was a huge buff for vMA builds. Next they dropped the bonus weapon damage, BUT added a 4 second duration. That's HUGE! That means you have more GCD's to deal damage. The overall result is still a colossal buff when compared with live AND with the change to 4 seconds, the rotation becomes incredibly smooth. So I ask again what nerfs?

So, a couple of things. One, the testing has confirmed that it is about a 2k nerf from live, but mostly, it is probably worth noting that this thread was started before they had announced what the change was, just that they were planning on nerfing it.

"This thread was started before they had announced what the change was"

So you think it makes sense to argue against something before you even saw what it is or tested it for yourself? Quality thinking there...

No, I argued initially against the motivation behind the nerf from what it was, not against the change itself. The reason stated for the proposed nerf was that an arena weapon was out performing other things like monster sets. This thread was started as an argument that solo arena weapons should out-perform things that could be gained by being carried. Upon testing confirming that the actual change made still left this set of vMA weapons better than other things, I have supported the alteration to the skill, although would still like to see the other maelstrom weapons raised in power.

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

What nerf? It's a buff...the reason vMA is relevant at all is because ST dots were buffed, which was a huge buff for vMA builds. Next they dropped the bonus weapon damage, BUT added a 4 second duration. That's HUGE! That means you have more GCD's to deal damage. The overall result is still a colossal buff when compared with live AND with the change to 4 seconds, the rotation becomes incredibly smooth. So I ask again what nerfs?

So, a couple of things. One, the testing has confirmed that it is about a 2k nerf from live, but mostly, it is probably worth noting that this thread was started before they had announced what the change was, just that they were planning on nerfing it.

"This thread was started before they had announced what the change was"

So you think it makes sense to argue against something before you even saw what it is or tested it for yourself? Quality thinking there...

No, I argued initially against the motivation behind the nerf from what it was, not against the change itself. The reason stated for the proposed nerf was that an arena weapon was out performing other things like monster sets. This thread was started as an argument that solo arena weapons should out-perform things that could be gained by being carried. Upon testing confirming that the actual change made still left this set of vMA weapons better than other things, I have supported the alteration to the skill, although would still like to see the other maelstrom weapons raised in power.

Please provide a citation where any dev claims that the motivation was that they were outperforming monster sets. The motivation was never monster set issues. The motivation was that it was outperforming ANY other setup by miles.

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

I tested it, don't like it and won't be using it. A monster set gives me better numbers.

I think that's just l2p

kaizen914 wrote: »

Bladerunner1 wrote: »

I tested it, don't like it and won't be using it. A monster set gives me better numbers.

You should practice it more if you care about being competitive. The difference is significant even post nerf.

Yeah I tried again and noticed there was a mistake with the build the last time. I rebuilt it on PTS and noticed it's hitting 3k higher this time around.