zaria wrote: »

Morgul667 wrote: »

Structured entropy is the solution to all your problems

No it solves none, I never used power surge in trials, there I used spell power potions.

Main benefit is the healing on crit damage in vMA or other places with high damage and lots of adds.

honestly Power Surge was useful in trials as well, even if you specifically didn't use it, it wasn't unviable to have a self sustain that activated when you crit. it certainly made it easier for healers who have one less person to be focusing on int he event they take some damage.

zaria wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Whats funny is loads of folk mentioning Structured Entropy without any reference or hint as to what the changes to this are and how it can replace Power Surge... that would be constructive ;-)

This only thing in common is that both give major sorcery, however so does spell power potions.

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Structured+Entropy
Bind an enemy with chaotic magic, dealing 2052 Magic Damage over 10 seconds, and healing you for 137 Health every 2 seconds.
Grants you Major Sorcery, increasing your Spell Damage by 20% for 20 seconds.

https://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Power+Surge
Invoke Meridia's name to get a rush of power, granting you Major Brutality and Major Sorcery, increasing Weapon and Spell Damage by 20% for 33 seconds.
While active, dealing a Critical Strike heals you for 2550 Health. This effect can occur once every 1 second.
Also gain Major Sorcery, increasing your Spell Damage.

The first is an low level heal and buff who last in 10 seconds, it require an target.
Second is an heal on crit hit and last for 33 seconds. Very good in fights with lots of adds like vMA.

Critical surge does not give Major Sorcery but only brutality, will that change to only heal on heal?

Thank you!

OK, so in actual fact Structured Entropy is in no way shape or form a replacement for the main purpose of Power Surge - significant heals on crit. There are multiple sources of Major Sorcery, but the massive potential of the crit heals to keep a Sorc alive, particularly in combination with Boundless Storm - that is why and how I use Power Surge and always have.

Why is everyone mentioning Structured Entropy then? Is it a joke? Because if this nerf goes ahead I dont find it funny at all, my main dps is a magsorc.

How can entropy, a quantity (kind of) characterizing the structure of a system, be structured itself?

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Why are you guys talking about Power Surge in the future but referencing Structured Entropy in the present?

Have you read the PTS notes on Structured Entropy?

Entropy: Redesigned this ability and its morphs to operate as a DoT, rather than the strange HoT/DoT/Buff hybrid it previously was.

Increased the cost of these abilities to 2970 from 1620 at base.
Entropy and Degeneration no longer heal over time.
Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.
Decreased duration to 10 seconds from 12 seconds. Major Sorcery remains at 20 seconds, and fixed an issue where the Major Sorcery was not increasing in duration with the Everlasting Magic passive.
Structured Entropy (morph): This morph no longer grants Max Health for slotting. Instead, it now heals you every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.
Degeneration (morph): This morph no longer has a 15% chance to heal you when you deal Light or Heavy Attack damage to the target. Instead, it returns 100 Magicka when dealing Light or Heavy Attack Damage to the target while the DoT persists. Also reduced the cost of the ability as it ranks up, down to 2700.

I asked the simple question, why is everyone mentioning Structured Entropy with no reference to what it actually does (will do) or how it can replace Power Surge. I received what seems to be a helpful response highlighting this:

"Bind an enemy with chaotic magic, dealing 2052 Magic Damage over 10 seconds, and healing you for 137 Health every 2 seconds".

Which is very similar to the text you are quoting for the changes to Structured Entropy, yes? Only there does not seem to be a value given for the amount of heal in the quote you give. Can you or anyone else clarify just how much health is going to be returned every 2 seconds? Because if its less than about 2500, that is in no way shape or form a replacement for Power Surge.

Donny_Vito wrote: »

I'm just stating that you guys are comparing Power Surge as it will be in the future to what Structured Entropy is now, instead of what it will be in the future. Most all DPS are going to be using Structured Entropy come next patch, as all of the AOE DOTs are taking a nerf while single target DOTs (i.e. Structured Entropy) are taking a buff. How it will replace Power Surge? I don't know, I haven't ran it in ages except when I do overland content or potentially PUG'ing. But lets be honest, nobody in Vet Trials are actually using Power Surge....you get the buffs from Pots, and wasting that skill slot plus GCD on a skill for only heals is pointless when you have endgame healers in your group. So a lot of MagSorcs will be putting up the Matriach because it got nerfed, and putting Structured Entropy on one of the empty slots.

There is little to no point referencing end game vet trials, when only a small fraction of the player base engage in this content at all, never mind frequently. The game is not just for end game min/maxers. In fact quite the opposite and so I do get frustrated with folk on these forums making posts which seem to ignore the vast majority of ESO players.

You do not get 2500+ health from crit damage which can proc every second, elsewhere. That is the power of Power Surge, pun intended (particularly in combination with Boundless Storm) this is a mainstay for a great many sorc players.

So, to return to my original point, without further information on how much health Structured Entropy will provide, as it stands it is in no way or form equivalent to or a replacement for Power Surge... which is what umpteen people in this thread seem to be suggesting, unless I am mistaken.

idk wrote: »

albertberku wrote: »

Seriously, what kind of change is that? You erase it from pvp, you erase it from PvE. It is now only useful for healers, which are not going to be sorcs, anyway. Do you play your game?

How many threads on the same subject are you going to create today? You are not even really provided constructive feedback in either, just complaining.

here is my constructive feedback: power surge is the only heal a magsorc wants to damage a butterfly slots, for pvp, for pve. Removing its crit damage aspect is to remove power surge from magsorc bar. That healing is much needed and it was not OP, no one ever complained about power surge healing ever in 5 year. Anyone that have played magsorc for 5 mins any time in their life knows it. If it is a straight nerf, then why? if it is a change to skill because they dont think it makes any difference, then i very doubt that balancing team has any single idea about the combat. And entropy is the most useless skill ever. If you are saying use entropy instead of power surge, then you have no clue what you are talking about. The thing is we could slot something like mutagen and then use spell power pots. But a cornflower costs a fortune. I would rather put it on a display at my house and never play the game again, just because i afraid i may consume the cornflower. I am specifically concerned about their role in pvp, where everyone uses ravage health posions, bleeds, dots, oblivion, and straight up burst heal wont save your ass, with incoming damage ticks every second. And for PvE, it is like 10 times more needed if you are not going to do an actual content with an actual healer on your side. Go do one round vma with entropy on a magsorc and then lets talk again. And about using power surge in trials, i have seen people getting kicked for this before...

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Lets just stop there then. If you're not doing endgame content, then none of these changes will really effect you in the slightest bit. Slot what you want and you'll be fine.

Personally I do complete end game vet trial content and arenas, with my guild(s), or to farm gear, or just when the fancy takes me. Power Surge is still useful across a lot of this content.

But this is a separate matter from the fact many seem to be touting Structured Entropy as an alternative to Power Surge.

Happy gaming.

EDIT: I can now see that @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO has added some very helpful information that allows everyone to compare matters. My thoughts are, as suspected, SE is not going to provide anything like the amount of healing as PS, and in a real combat situation where adds die etc, you will have to recast SE multiple times to keep the healing coming, meaning a far higher resource cost and potentially fatal down times. Unless the healing portion continues after the target expires... can anyone clarify this?

Its seems as thought, its a massive nerf to PS and Sorcs in general, particularly folk who do not use or want to use pets (aesthetically they are one of the most ugly things in ESO and will never darken my builds).

Yep. Now Power Surge is useless for Mag Sorc DPS. No sense in using it at all. ZOS has done some really dumb things in the past but this one takes the cake.

Wow ZOS. Who came up with this change? Fire them immediately! Just freaking ridiculous.

jaws343 wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Grianasteri wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Why are you guys talking about Power Surge in the future but referencing Structured Entropy in the present?

Have you read the PTS notes on Structured Entropy?

Entropy: Redesigned this ability and its morphs to operate as a DoT, rather than the strange HoT/DoT/Buff hybrid it previously was.

Increased the cost of these abilities to 2970 from 1620 at base.
Entropy and Degeneration no longer heal over time.
Increased the damage from all morphs by approximately 220%.
Decreased duration to 10 seconds from 12 seconds. Major Sorcery remains at 20 seconds, and fixed an issue where the Major Sorcery was not increasing in duration with the Everlasting Magic passive.
Structured Entropy (morph): This morph no longer grants Max Health for slotting. Instead, it now heals you every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.
Degeneration (morph): This morph no longer has a 15% chance to heal you when you deal Light or Heavy Attack damage to the target. Instead, it returns 100 Magicka when dealing Light or Heavy Attack Damage to the target while the DoT persists. Also reduced the cost of the ability as it ranks up, down to 2700.

I asked the simple question, why is everyone mentioning Structured Entropy with no reference to what it actually does (will do) or how it can replace Power Surge. I received what seems to be a helpful response highlighting this:

"Bind an enemy with chaotic magic, dealing 2052 Magic Damage over 10 seconds, and healing you for 137 Health every 2 seconds".

Which is very similar to the text you are quoting for the changes to Structured Entropy, yes? Only there does not seem to be a value given for the amount of heal in the quote you give. Can you or anyone else clarify just how much health is going to be returned every 2 seconds? Because if its less than about 2500, that is in no way shape or form a replacement for Power Surge.

1.3k base doesnt sound like a lot but look at the healing you get on a 6 mill dummy-




so, yes, not a small nerf(like 60% less) to self healing in pve. i know i will making the switch to SE from power surge and still use the matriarch, the dps loss of the matriarchs damage is completely offset by using structured entropy, at least on my build.

The problem is, in solo play, the healing from surge is something that you could precast and it continued to proc as your targets died. SE will be a great dot, but in add pulls or world bosses with tons of adds, you will need to continually apply it in order to get a heal because your targets will keep dying.

Also, this forces MagSorc to take the healing morph of Entropy over the sustain morph. MagSorc has always suffered with poor sustain, especially in places like VMA and PvP. The sustain from other morph would have been nice.

Scalebreaker PTS patch notes:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/483597/pts-patch-notes-v5-1-0

• Structured Entropy (morph): This morph no longer grants Max Health for slotting. Instead, it now heals you every 2 seconds for 10 seconds.

It's entropy. And it's structured.

CGPsaint wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Lets just stop there then. If you're not doing endgame content, then none of these changes will really effect you in the slightest bit. Slot what you want and you'll be fine.

So if we're not doing trials, then we don't need Power Surge? Please don't comment on a subject that you know little to nothing about. Power Surge is the class heal for MagSorcs, and quite frankly there is NOT a single skill, or even two skills that can replace it. Slotting a restoration staff on back bar is a massive DPS loss. Entropy is rubbish, unless you're using it as another DoT, and then it's really only for the damage. The Matriarch is a decent burst heal, but would be a huge strain on resources to use as a main heal. The bottom line is that NOBODY asked for a change to Power Surge. Very few people are running MagSorc Healers, and quite frankly there was no reason to make this change. Unless they add Major Sorcery to Critical Surge (and make it cost X amount of your highest attribute), then they are 100% nerfing MagSorcs for ALL PvE content.

Couldn't have said it better...