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Thanks for ruining PvP even more than it already was, ZOS
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Aedrion✭✭✭✭✭There's a way to fix Volendrung, if you ask me.
The reasons people hate it currently it because of 3 problems with it, I think.
- The ability to break keep walls and gates in under 10 seconds, rendering defence useless or siege equipment useless.
- The ability to use one ultimate to wipe entire guild groups or hosts of defenders inside a keep or tight spot.
- The map marker causing it to attract huge zone-blobs on all sides causing lag and terrible zergy battles.
The other abilities the Hammer has are powerful but not broken.
So here's how I would fix Volen.
- Remove the Hammer's ability to destroy walls. Permit the hammer to deal a little bit of damage to gates with heavy attacks, to speed up sieges but only from the main gates. Since hammer cannot heal, it would need support to survive returning fire.
- Rework the ultimate to so it deals less damage and doesn't pull people in. Currently, if you get hit with this once in a keep, you're dead. It should be like a powerful Eye of Destruction, but one that people can outrun so it requires some set-up before you can use it effectively.
- Only make the map marker appear when the hammer is near a keep or outpost. That way, people can guess where the hammer might be and try to find it and kill the user but it won't be a lit beacon attracting zergs like moths. If the hammer is sufficiently nerfed, not always knowing where it is won't be so bad. Currently, you MUST know where it is because it can capture keeps in 1 minute flat.
Volendrung is not going away. Instead we're getting more of these. So they can't be game changers. They can be fun mechanics that change a fight or make you play more cautiously or recklessly but having a deadric artefact shouldn't change how Cyrodiil is played for 1 hour.9 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Aedrion These are good suggestions, and I would like to add another one that prevents the leading faction/emp faction from using it, at least at full strength.
Either the leading faction/emp faction shouldn't be allowed to pick it up at all, or if they do, the timer should run faster so they have it a lot shorter time than the other factions. Or the hammer could spawn intelligently, near the bases of non-emp and non-leading factions.
That ensures the hammer is a force opposite the leading faction or emp faction, not something they can pile up along emp bonus.
That, and also fix the blatant exploits that keeps one faction having the hammer indefinitely through cheating.4 -
idwilson✭✭I spent a few years designing capture the flag maps of the Battlefield flavour and a, hard to accept principle by others at first, ultimately very popular basis for map design was to NOT bind assets to owning territory but in fact to do the complete opposite.
In ESO terms that would mean, for example, choosing to either give scroll bonuses or campaign bonuses to the owning side, not both and, as others have said, ensure that the hammer does not go to the side with territory but goes to the side without territory. Emperor bonuses can be handled without the flood of, for example, six scrolls, home and enemy keep bonuses derived from night captures.
Perhaps a general armistice in off peak hours might help keep campaigns stay close and fun until the end (we, AD, just 'won' a campaign by 20k points and are already 4k ahead - although DC have their own night capture team now too). The bonus for being under populated doesn't seem to work at all.
I guess points could be scaled by the actual relative population size. So, for example, the a team with twice as many players as the others gets half AP.
What he have here is almost biblical. To those who have, even more will be given, and to those who have not, even what they have will be taken away.
It isn't that hard to work out some design constructs if you understand general game design mechanics.
What I see in ESO are designers who cannot see the forest for the trees; they need to take a step back and consider the campaign holistically instead of (or as well as) fixating on individual relative class performance.
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Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The solution is quite simple. Never have the Hammer spawn near the Emp faction, only let the Emp faction pick up the Hammer once and if they drop it they can’t pick it up again.0 -
msalvia✭✭✭✭Honestly, I kinda like da hamma. But I think it came in at the wrong time, right along with faction lock. I know there's a certain crowd that thinks faction lock's intended goal of getting rid of spies is good--and I am one of them--but I also think it has made campaigns less competitive since players can no longer "even out" the map by switching toons. Da hamma seems like a great tool if the sides are fairly evenly matched/populated, but it's bonkers when it spawns for the team that's ruling the map.0 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Go to the main campaign (Kaal) and PvP for just a couple of hours, then look at your leaderboard standing. In the past, this would place me at #1900ish. In the current campaign, after probably 6 hours of extremely casual PvP, I’ve gained less than 200k AP and I’m #143 on the leaderboard. To me, this clearly shows that population on the 30-day CP campaign has tanked.1 -
Rake✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ok zos.
U experimented with bs hammer.
Now delete it and dont add similar clown stuff to already lag infested PvP.3 -
Vevvev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Go to the main campaign (Kaal) and PvP for just a couple of hours, then look at your leaderboard standing. In the past, this would place me at #1900ish. In the current campaign, after probably 6 hours of extremely casual PvP, I’ve gained less than 200k AP and I’m #143 on the leaderboard. To me, this clearly shows that population on the 30-day CP campaign has tanked.
Also have to factor in that you don't have to make a campaign a home campaign to enter it now. Only people that set Kaal to their home will appear on that leaderboard and every single night I see that campaign with all 3 factions pop locked.PC NA - Ceyanna Ashton - Breton Vampire MagDK0 -
Marcus684✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Go to the main campaign (Kaal) and PvP for just a couple of hours, then look at your leaderboard standing. In the past, this would place me at #1900ish. In the current campaign, after probably 6 hours of extremely casual PvP, I’ve gained less than 200k AP and I’m #143 on the leaderboard. To me, this clearly shows that population on the 30-day CP campaign has tanked.
Also have to factor in that you don't have to make a campaign a home campaign to enter it now. Only people that set Kaal to their home will appear on that leaderboard and every single night I see that campaign with all 3 factions pop locked.
Hmmm. Didn’t consider that. Thx. Off hours pop is still lower than I’ve ever seen it (except AD). And even during prime time I never see a queue.Edited by Marcus684 on July 27, 2019 6:21PM1 -
IronWooshu✭✭✭✭✭
✭InvictusApollo wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »With faction lock I had looked forward to more fair PvP
Ha ha ha ha. Really?! You thought that faction lock will make PvP more fair? Ha ha ha ha ha.
Either you haven't played ESO since its beginning or you have a really short memory. The domination of a single faction in a campaign is exactly what was happening all the time in Cyrodill back in the days when we had faction lock. I've been warning about consequences of faction locks and especially the scenario you described. But did anyone listen? No.
Enjoy your faction lock.
This is about the hammer not faction locks, nice try tho.4 -
Amira✭✭✭probabkyravi wrote: »Rage quitters ruin PvP not ZoS
" Daddy never told me I would get zerged!"
Grow up and stop the RQ and QQ.
They improve performance by quitting3 -
itscompton✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, I kinda like da hamma. But I think it came in at the wrong time, right along with faction lock. I know there's a certain crowd that thinks faction lock's intended goal of getting rid of spies is good--and I am one of them--but I also think it has made campaigns less competitive since players can no longer "even out" the map by switching toons. Da hamma seems like a great tool if the sides are fairly evenly matched/populated, but it's bonkers when it spawns for the team that's ruling the map.
Players switching sides to "even out" competitiveness and thus affecting Cyrodiil's faction balance is a myth put forth by those opposed to faction lock. For every person that might have switched to a losing alliance for better fights five others from the losing alliance would switch to the winning side to avoid getting steamrolled again and again.8 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, I kinda like da hamma. But I think it came in at the wrong time, right along with faction lock.
Lock is there because of the hammer, to prevent some abuse like feeding it with alts or using alts to retrieve it from opposing faction's territory.I know there's a certain crowd that thinks faction lock's intended goal of getting rid of spies is good--and I am one of them--but I also think it has made campaigns less competitive since players can no longer "even out" the map by switching toons. Da hamma seems like a great tool if the sides are fairly evenly matched/populated, but it's bonkers when it spawns for the team that's ruling the map.
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msalvia✭✭✭✭itscompton wrote: »Honestly, I kinda like da hamma. But I think it came in at the wrong time, right along with faction lock. I know there's a certain crowd that thinks faction lock's intended goal of getting rid of spies is good--and I am one of them--but I also think it has made campaigns less competitive since players can no longer "even out" the map by switching toons. Da hamma seems like a great tool if the sides are fairly evenly matched/populated, but it's bonkers when it spawns for the team that's ruling the map.
Players switching sides to "even out" competitiveness and thus affecting Cyrodiil's faction balance is a myth put forth by those opposed to faction lock. For every person that might have switched to a losing alliance for better fights five others from the losing alliance would switch to the winning side to avoid getting steamrolled again and again.
We're both using subjective, anecdotal evidence here, which is why I qualified my statement with "I think." And my own subjective, anecodotal evidence is that pvp campaigns are more lopsided then I ever see them. That's largely because pvp guilds are more uniformly dedicated to one campaign, making it more lopsided. What evidence do you see of this "for every one, five" claim?0 -
Nitribit✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »With faction lock I had looked forward to more fair PvP
Ha ha ha ha. Really?! You thought that faction lock will make PvP more fair? Ha ha ha ha ha.
Either you haven't played ESO since its beginning or you have a really short memory. The domination of a single faction in a campaign is exactly what was happening all the time in Cyrodill back in the days when we had faction lock. I've been warning about consequences of faction locks and especially the scenario you described. But did anyone listen? No.
Enjoy your faction lock.
PS4NA has eliminated domination by a single faction thanks to faction lock. The days of faction-hoppers jumping ship for the winning side are over. I am proud to have helped lobby for re-implementation of a faction lock option since 2017 along with assisting to record numerous game breaking exploits permitted by faction-hopping.
Cyrodiil is better thanks to faction lock option.
This. On PC/EU/CP campaign the same. AD was winning every campaign due to nightcapping for a looooong time. After faction lock it changed, so far. DC won the last campaign and EP the campaign before.
On PC/EU/CP faction lock works fine, so far1 -
Adernath✭✭✭✭✭InvictusApollo wrote: »Carbonised wrote: »With faction lock I had looked forward to more fair PvP
Ha ha ha ha. Really?! You thought that faction lock will make PvP more fair? Ha ha ha ha ha.
Either you haven't played ESO since its beginning or you have a really short memory. The domination of a single faction in a campaign is exactly what was happening all the time in Cyrodill back in the days when we had faction lock. I've been warning about consequences of faction locks and especially the scenario you described. But did anyone listen? No.
Enjoy your faction lock.
PS4NA has eliminated domination by a single faction thanks to faction lock. The days of faction-hoppers jumping ship for the winning side are over. I am proud to have helped lobby for re-implementation of a faction lock option since 2017 along with assisting to record numerous game breaking exploits permitted by faction-hopping.
Cyrodiil is better thanks to faction lock option.
This. On PC/EU/CP campaign the same. AD was winning every campaign due to nightcapping for a looooong time. After faction lock it changed, so far. DC won the last campaign and EP the campaign before.
On PC/EU/CP faction lock works fine, so far
Indeed, now the nightcapping players are back on their EP and DC characters and can't simply switch to their AD toons to farm easy AP. It is great to play only with people really dedicated to ones own faction even if the times are tougher now. Edited by Adernath on July 28, 2019 7:15AM2 -
Carbonised✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This still isnt a thread about faction lock, stop derailing it already. There's a million threads to discuss faction lock, this thread is mainly about the addition of Volendrung and about stacking faction bonuses in general.0 -
notyuu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭To quote myself on how to address the hammertime problemseeing as there is no 0 option...
Suggestions on how to fix it
1: make it so that if you get emp while holding it, you explode killing everybody within 20 meters of you
2: make it so the leading faction can't pick it up
3: if your faction takes the lead while holding it, you wither and die in seconds instead of minuets.
4: the stat changs from picking it up also need to extend to weapon damage and crit to allow mag users to make use of it
5: you really should be allowed to re-arrange the power bar
6: have the power taper down based on the number of allies nearby i.e. more allies close by = less power
And that's it.0 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭1) Hammer needs to go away.
2) Campaigns need a hard restart.
3) Emp needs to be a one and done.
4) Balance needs to based character to character, not character to mob.
5) 1 v X, duels, and small scale are a better representation of balance than the army of turd hurds running around.
6) TTK window is too wide across the classes.
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MiyukiShiba✭✭✭Hammer is ruining the pvp fun. I am always trying to tell my faction to dont take the it because usually it's going to end in the enemies hands. So options would be 2 : removing the hammer or the hammer should belong to the weak faction only.
And that's already ridiculous that hammer can destroy a keep in 2 seconds, it doesn't add any fun to me.
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JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭MiyukiShiba wrote: »Hammer is ruining the pvp fun. I am always trying to tell my faction to dont take the it because usually it's going to end in the enemies hands. So options would be 2 : removing the hammer or the hammer should belong to the weak faction only.
They will not remove it, because it is the most significant addition to PvP since IC and it took them at least two hours to design it, including googling "zariche" and "akamanah" and watching that on youtube for an hour. It is now a matter of honour to stick with it; if they removed it, they would lose face.
Neither will they restrict its use to weaker factions, because that would be too dramatic departure from their trusty antipattern of stacking bonuses (=REWARDs) on the winning side.MiyukiShiba wrote: »And that's already ridiculous that hammer can destroy a keep in 2 seconds, it doesn't add any fun to me.
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JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭The hammer of a Daedric Prince seems like it would be heavy and difficult for a mortal to carry. You know, like, maybe you might move 30% slower or something while you carry it. I hesitate to question the good judgement of Uncle Sheo but one has to wonder.0
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Shardaxx✭✭✭✭✭The hammer sounded fun, but the reality is when you're in a Keep and you see a zerg with the hammer approaching, you might as well not even bother. They are through the doors/walls in like 10 seconds. There's no counter to it, its just daft.PS4 - Europe - Shardaxx - Wood Elf Nightblade - Aldmeri Dominion3 -
Enkil✭✭✭✭✭
✭The hammer of a Daedric Prince seems like it would be heavy and difficult for a mortal to carry. You know, like, maybe you might move 30% slower or something while you carry it. I hesitate to question the good judgement of Uncle Sheo but one has to wonder.
That’s how it is in the single player games... the weight makes it unbearable by most. It should have a movement and combat speed debuff, and def should not have a gap closer ability.
Hammer is a cute idea and maybe it can find a home in PvE side of game somewhere. It does not belong in PvP at all and exacerbates all the existing PvP imbalances.
Edited by Enkil on August 3, 2019 7:28PM6 -
JimmyJuJu✭✭✭✭The hammer of a Daedric Prince seems like it would be heavy and difficult for a mortal to carry. You know, like, maybe you might move 30% slower or something while you carry it. I hesitate to question the good judgement of Uncle Sheo but one has to wonder.
That’s how it is in the single player games... the weight makes it unbearable by most. It should have a movement and combat speed debuff, and def should not have a gap closer ability.
Hammer is a cute idea and maybe it can find a home in PvE side of game somewhere. It does not belong in PvP at all and exacerbates all the existing PvP imbalances.
Yep.
But - by the Divines - don't let Sheogorath hear you say that. You might end up as a cheese wheel. Or worse.0 -
munchkinxx✭✭✭Carbonised wrote: »Gee, @ZOS_BrianWheeler , thanks for adding even more tools for one faction to completely dominate and troll the entire campaign. You know what's not fun at all? Being 10 reds trying to defend keep after keep against 25 blues, buffed by every scroll bonus and including the Emp and Hammer both. It was bad enough when one faction with Emp would completely dominate a campaign, pushing every other faction to their gates and aggressively keep the entire map a single color. Now they also have the easy help of the Volendrung hammer to make that task even easier. Btw, blues also apparently exploited the hammer by logging off/on and thereby resetting it, I guess you're not gonna do anything about that either? With faction lock I had looked forward to more fair PvP, and with the addition of the hammer, and being exploited by one faction to keep it forever along with Emp, I'm not gonna do any more PvP until this shite is fixed.
Oh, and just for fun information, outer wall on Arrius fell in like 10 secs after it being sieged by Emp and Hammer. How fun!
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
This is copy and paste on EU PS4 Server and I am a Blue, but with Reds 24/7 zerging the map. I am not saying a zerg is a 24 man group....now they are 40 plus easily. You cant even take a resource as a small group without 60 reds showing up.
It is a running joke that when you add a member to a group and it tells you it will make it a "large group"....
Alliance lock is great and I was happy that they brought it back but taking out campaigns was a fail as it funneled everyone into one campaign. The other campaigns are all dead.... People will say "oh just go to one of those campaigns..". I don't want to. Why would I then want to go to a dead one? Main campaign is where the better fighting was...you could enjoy it and choose who to fight. These zerglings Guilds that came from the now deleted campaigns are what has ruined it, as well as Volendrung.
These are crap players too, even with emp and scrolls but it is the sheer numbers... we are a group of 6 and take out 15 or so...they come back with 60 and then t-bag you....
They have enough members to take four keeps at a time and lock them down, while sending zergs out to run down anyone that makes a move anywhere else on the map or take Volendrung (if it didnt spawn in their area while they have Emp, all scrolls and keeps etc).
Volendrung spawning anywhere that is not behind an opposing Alliance wall is useless anyway because of the Reds having the ability to travel anywhere they want in these numbers and just take it...There are now at least 10 main elitist PvP Red Guilds in the main campaign. If Volendrung spawns behind Blue side, we drop it in the lava...seriously what is the point of putting it in play?
Even the Yellows, who are notorious for 60 man zergs are having a hard time. You can have full bars all alliances and yet be ridiculously out-numbered by Reds. And of course ZOS will not tell anyone what those numbers actually are or how pop lock works. Because it doesn't.
When Reds end a campaign with a 100k plus score and everyone else is half that, ZOS has to see there is something wrong there. I do not know what the scoring is like on other servers with dominant factions...but if it is anywhere near the same...then an obvious imbalance is there and that should be addressed.
I get anyone can play any Alliance etc etc wtfever...but this is ridiculous. This is far beyond that now with the amount of players Alliance vs Alliance vying for a map that has become too small for these zergs and for anyone else to make a move in.
You can have the best internet in the server and yet because of these 60 to 100 players showing up ... no skills work...or you just lag out entirely. Either way, you are dead and even if they lag....they have enough numbers that do not lag and kill everyone anyway.
Some Red players that are very good players, some Twitch casters etc even are disgusted with the population of Reds and the zerging. It is too hard for any one to find a decent fight and enjoy game play without having it ruined by one of their own zergs showing up. Some have quit ESO all together and more are following, others are switching alliances to try and break up the state of play and have been shocked at the Red zerg response when they try to do anything. Then quit.
Half my PvP guild has quit, with more to follow. Will save someone from ZOS a spot...so they can actually see what is happening at ground level as it seems all they are looking at is code and PTS results....
Pop lock needs to be regulated better... either by the numbers themselves or by applying some sort of penalty system to a locked down campaign to the Alliance that has done so. Or increase/ give better buffs to the underdog alliance.
What is applied now, is obviously only doing harm to the game.
Volendrung needs to go back to Oblivion permanently.. to introduce another item, would serve only to strengthen the alliance with the numbers and lock down and would apply the last nail to ESO PvP coffin...Edited by munchkinxx on August 5, 2019 2:24AM0
