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FEEDBACK / IDEA: Cyrodiil Tourist License

Ekadzati
Ekadzati
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@ZOS_GinaBruno -

Since it doesn't seem reasonable to expect PvP players to protect non-combatant PvE players seeking world completion in a PvP area anymore, I thought I'd take a moment to write up a short overview of a potentially nice compromise.

While putting 'consensual PvP' into Cyrodiil would make people's heads explore (rightfully so, they have little space left to them these days), there is a reasonable case to be made for "tourism" as part of lore - particularly now that Cyrodiillic Collections is present to provide an avenue for undertaking the tour.

Happy to answer any questions, should this actually make it to someone willing to consider it.

Thanks for listening, regardless.

---- IDEA: CYRODIILLIC COLLECTION'S TOURIST LICENSE ----

EPIC: As a dedicated PvE player, I want to be able to obtain protected access to Cyrodiil (Cyrodiil Tourist) in exchange for loss of all AP, PVP progress or reward, AND no access to combat abilities, so I can complete world achievement fishing, skyshards, and non-pvp Cyrodiil content.

Story 01: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I may purchase a timed license for tourism in Cyrodiil, so I may join any campaign as a protected non-combatant.

Story 02: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I may elect to enter the PvP campaign and lose any time remaining on my "Tourist License", so I can join in PvP activities.

Story 03: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I will be teleported to my faction's base (random!!) when I elect to enter PvP, so PvP balance is maintained.

Story 04: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I will be teleported to my last overworld destination when my "Tourist License" expires, so PvP balance is maintained.

Story 05: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I will be able to "top up" my license timer, so I can manage my time touring Cyrodiil.

Story 06: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I will be unable to see or interact with any PvP player, regardless faction for the duration of my tour, so PvP balance is maintained.

Story 07: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I may access and complete any skyshard, so I can complete my tour of Cyrodiil.

Story 08: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I may access and complete any delve, so I can complete my tour of Cyrodiil.

Story 09: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I may access and complete any world boss, so I can complete my tour of Cyrodiil.

Story 10: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I may access and complete any point of interest, so I can complete my tour of Cyrodiil.

Story 11: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I may access and complete any fishing node, so I can complete my tour of Cyrodiil.

Story 12: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I may access and complete any harvesting/theft, so I can complete my tour of Cyrodiil.

Story 13: As a "Cyrodill Tourist", I must lose all combat abilities and skills while on tour, so the PvP balance is maintained.

Story 14: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I must lose all alliance point rewards while on tour, so the PvP status is maintained.

Story 15: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I must lose all NPC guild related advancement from PvP activities while on tour, so the PvP balance is maintained.

Story 16: As a "Cyrodiil Tourist", I must lose all ability to engage in area and zone chat, so I cannot negatively impact PvP gameplay.

I know there are going to be a LOT of things I didn't think about... just trying to outline the idea.

/toddles off for more coffee....
Registration date: November 2013
Geek since 1974.
Girl Gamer since 1976.
Granny since 2014.
Gut shooter since forever.
Don't say you weren't warned.
(Now where's my cane and why are you on my lawn?)

  • Ekadzati
    Ekadzati
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    Note: Stories 8, 9, and 12 conflict with one another and the notion "no combat abilities"; perhaps this could be solved with the same way you hide players from one another but enable combat for storyline areas?

    Registration date: November 2013
    Geek since 1974.
    Girl Gamer since 1976.
    Granny since 2014.
    Gut shooter since forever.
    Don't say you weren't warned.
    (Now where's my cane and why are you on my lawn?)

  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    31 PvE zones in the game.

    2 PvP zones in the game,

    It’s more than fair for you to risk some PvP, @Ekadzati ... to get a handful of skyshards, achievements, and quests.

    “Forfeiting” AP is a sham argument.

    You’re not giving up anything because no risk is presumed.
    "May you walk on warm sands."
    "First, I would ask that you look to the poor and the suffering around Cyrodiil. Look into their hearts, and then look into your own."
    "May Auri-El's light guide you in your darkest hours."

    North American (NA) PC Megaserver (click to view):
    Vilerihala - Magicka Templar (Altmer ~ Dedicated Healer) ~ Màisalihna - Stamina Dragonknight (Bosmer) ~ Áhliaselia - Stamina Templar (Bosmer) ~ Thraccenia Vendicci - Stamina Sorcerer (Imperial) ~ daa'Vaaliánia - Magicka Warden (Dunmer) ~ Wenayastare - Magicka Dragonknight (Altmer) ~ Aráliavina - Stamina Nightblade (Bosmer) ~ Ysyna Rielle - Magicka Warden (Breton) ~ Dro-r'Aahni Bright-Paws - Magicka Necromancer (Khajiit) ~ Rhusannah - Stamina Nightblade (Redguard) ~ Eirellonye - Magicka Nightblade (Altmer) ~ Lae'Suuriávia - Stamina Warden (Bosmer) ~ Dralora Savani - Magicka Sorcerer (Dunmer) ~ Billows-With-Incense - Magicka Warden (Argonian ~ Dedicated Healer) ~ Anísa'Vardaia - Health Dragonknight (Imperial) ~ Azhnakha gra-Shugarz - Stamina Necromancer (Orc) ~ Vilinalara - Magicka Sorcerer (Altmer ~ Grand Master Crafter)
  • Ekadzati
    Ekadzati
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    31 PvE zones in the game.

    2 PvP zones in the game,

    It’s more than fair for you to risk some PvP, @Ekadzati ... to get a handful of skyshards, achievements, and quests.

    “Forfeiting” AP is a sham argument.

    You’re not giving up anything because no risk is presumed.

    I think you miss the point - just because you don't think I'm not giving anything up doesn't mean that I don't think I'm not giving anything up.

    But I'm glad you posted because that view is precisely the problem - if it doesn't negatively impact your play and allows me to avoid negatively impacting mine, that's called 'a win' by game designers.

    I just think it's high time game companies started designing around giving each segment what they actually desire rather than continuing to try and force them to interact when, clearly, the actual amount of overlap is (far) less than assumed.

    I also think this would go a long way toward resolving the plaints of PvP players, since a change like this would most likely all but eliminate players who "ball up" and "zerg" (since they're usually PvE players trying to just clear a damn map without being ganked out every 5 minutes by people who, literally, could not care less about anyone's enjoyment but their own.

    Just taking that attitude and using it for my own purposes this time.

    No sham argument here - it's just that you're not willing to engage a solution that gives PvE players as much control over their experience as you'd like them to lose in the name of your own.
    Registration date: November 2013
    Geek since 1974.
    Girl Gamer since 1976.
    Granny since 2014.
    Gut shooter since forever.
    Don't say you weren't warned.
    (Now where's my cane and why are you on my lawn?)

  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    Ekadzati wrote: »
    I just think it's high time game companies started designing around giving each segment what they actually desire rather than continuing to try and force them to interact when, clearly, the actual amount of overlap is (far) less than assumed.

    That’s already in the game, @Ekadzati ... as I mentioned in my first reply above.

    ESO has designed 31 PvE zones (in your words 31 “segments”) where you’re free to play your style of gameplay ... no forced interactions. That’s somewhere around 94% of the total game.

    Ekadzati wrote: »
    I also think this would go a long way toward resolving the plaints of PvP players, since a change like this would most likely all but eliminate players who "ball up" and "zerg" (since they're usually PvE players trying to just clear a damn map without being ganked out every 5 minutes by people who, literally, could not care less about anyone's enjoyment but their own.

    PvE players are more interested in getting skyshards, clearing achievements, and finishing quests. They aren’t interested in being on the front lines of PvP in a “ball group” or “zerg”.

    Bottom line: If you’re not willing to try a different playstyle for a very small portion of the game’s playable area, you won’t be missing out on the very small portion of the achievements.

    Edited by Taleof2Cities on July 31, 2019 4:05PM
    "May you walk on warm sands."
    "First, I would ask that you look to the poor and the suffering around Cyrodiil. Look into their hearts, and then look into your own."
    "May Auri-El's light guide you in your darkest hours."

    North American (NA) PC Megaserver (click to view):
    Vilerihala - Magicka Templar (Altmer ~ Dedicated Healer) ~ Màisalihna - Stamina Dragonknight (Bosmer) ~ Áhliaselia - Stamina Templar (Bosmer) ~ Thraccenia Vendicci - Stamina Sorcerer (Imperial) ~ daa'Vaaliánia - Magicka Warden (Dunmer) ~ Wenayastare - Magicka Dragonknight (Altmer) ~ Aráliavina - Stamina Nightblade (Bosmer) ~ Ysyna Rielle - Magicka Warden (Breton) ~ Dro-r'Aahni Bright-Paws - Magicka Necromancer (Khajiit) ~ Rhusannah - Stamina Nightblade (Redguard) ~ Eirellonye - Magicka Nightblade (Altmer) ~ Lae'Suuriávia - Stamina Warden (Bosmer) ~ Dralora Savani - Magicka Sorcerer (Dunmer) ~ Billows-With-Incense - Magicka Warden (Argonian ~ Dedicated Healer) ~ Anísa'Vardaia - Health Dragonknight (Imperial) ~ Azhnakha gra-Shugarz - Stamina Necromancer (Orc) ~ Vilinalara - Magicka Sorcerer (Altmer ~ Grand Master Crafter)
  • Ekadzati
    Ekadzati
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    Ekadzati wrote: »
    I just think it's high time game companies started designing around giving each segment what they actually desire rather than continuing to try and force them to interact when, clearly, the actual amount of overlap is (far) less than assumed.

    That’s already in the game, @Ekadzati ... as I mentioned in my first reply above.

    ESO has designed 31 PvE zones (in your words 31 “segments”) where you’re free to play your style of gameplay ... no forced interactions. That’s somewhere around 94% of the total game.

    Ekadzati wrote: »
    I also think this would go a long way toward resolving the plaints of PvP players, since a change like this would most likely all but eliminate players who "ball up" and "zerg" (since they're usually PvE players trying to just clear a damn map without being ganked out every 5 minutes by people who, literally, could not care less about anyone's enjoyment but their own.

    PvE players are more interested in getting skyshards, clearing achievements, and finishing quests. They aren’t interested in being on the front lines of PvP in a “ball group” or “zerg”.

    Bottom line: If you’re not willing to try a different playstyle for a very small portion of the game’s playable area, you won’t be missing out on the very small portion of the achievements.

    You seem to be deliberately missing the point. Have fun with that.
    Registration date: November 2013
    Geek since 1974.
    Girl Gamer since 1976.
    Granny since 2014.
    Gut shooter since forever.
    Don't say you weren't warned.
    (Now where's my cane and why are you on my lawn?)

  • albesca
    albesca
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    Ekadzati wrote: »
    You seem to be deliberately missing the point. Have fun with that.

    He's not wrong, though: I can get it if you want the skyshards for the skill points, but if you also want to complete delves, dolmens and such (that is, achievements that have no reward beside themselves) you are approaching achievements as a completionist of sorts, and then once you finish the pve achievements you're bound to work on the pvp ones (midyear mayhem, battlegrounds, cyrodiil ranks), so you migth as well get into Cyrodiil and do some true PVP or leave that small part of the game alone
    PC EU

    Khajiit has no time for you
  • Ekadzati
    Ekadzati
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    albesca wrote: »
    Ekadzati wrote: »
    You seem to be deliberately missing the point. Have fun with that.

    He's not wrong, though: I can get it if you want the skyshards for the skill points, but if you also want to complete delves, dolmens and such (that is, achievements that have no reward beside themselves) you are approaching achievements as a completionist of sorts, and then once you finish the pve achievements you're bound to work on the pvp ones (midyear mayhem, battlegrounds, cyrodiil ranks), so you migth as well get into Cyrodiil and do some true PVP or leave that small part of the game alone

    To be completely blunt, I won't "do" PvP anymore because it's not the PvP I grew up with and enjoyed. And it clearly never will be again.

    What I hear you saying is, "If you won't PvP, you shouldn't have any way to get these" and that's precisely the thing I have an issue with because those things add absolutely no value to PvP (particularly that isn't present already via another part of the PvP system).

    It might be different if PvP players had any interest (be that by mechanic/design or by community/culture) in something other than "total war" - but that's not the world we live in.... and I know I'm far from the first to suggest some means to this end, so the way I have it figured, if they bother to reply to me at all, I'll know if this is something they would ever entertain or not.

    Thanks for the comment, but I hope you will choose to understand I'm not interested in debating what I want or why I want it here. This is what I want, this is why I want it, and so far, the only objection seems to be either:

    1. PvP or go without
    2. It shouldn't matter if you miss these items if you won't PvP.

    Ok, fine. If that's ZoS stance as well, then I'll know how I need to proceed... or if.
    Registration date: November 2013
    Geek since 1974.
    Girl Gamer since 1976.
    Granny since 2014.
    Gut shooter since forever.
    Don't say you weren't warned.
    (Now where's my cane and why are you on my lawn?)

  • Vlad9425
    Vlad9425
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    A lot of the PVE content in Cyrodiil is out of the way of the PVP battles so you can complete it without even seeing another player but there are multiple campaigns so maybe try the 7 day Campaign or the Non CP Campaign which have a lot less people on them. I don't see them adding in any tourist licences or such since the zone is designed with PVP in mind.
  • Ekadzati
    Ekadzati
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    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    A lot of the PVE content in Cyrodiil is out of the way of the PVP battles so you can complete it without even seeing another player but there are multiple campaigns so maybe try the 7 day Campaign or the Non CP Campaign which have a lot less people on them. I don't see them adding in any tourist licences or such since the zone is designed with PVP in mind.

    My experience differs, dramatically, from this and no matter which campaign you're in, there's always someone around whose choicest delight is figuring out you're only there for world achievements and then, just because they can, making sure you can't.

    You tell me how and why that's supposed to be 'fun' for anyone except the PvP player.

    I'll wait.
    Registration date: November 2013
    Geek since 1974.
    Girl Gamer since 1976.
    Granny since 2014.
    Gut shooter since forever.
    Don't say you weren't warned.
    (Now where's my cane and why are you on my lawn?)

  • Vlad9425
    Vlad9425
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    Ekadzati wrote: »
    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    A lot of the PVE content in Cyrodiil is out of the way of the PVP battles so you can complete it without even seeing another player but there are multiple campaigns so maybe try the 7 day Campaign or the Non CP Campaign which have a lot less people on them. I don't see them adding in any tourist licences or such since the zone is designed with PVP in mind.

    My experience differs, dramatically, from this and no matter which campaign you're in, there's always someone around whose choicest delight is figuring out you're only there for world achievements and then, just because they can, making sure you can't.

    You tell me how and why that's supposed to be 'fun' for anyone except the PvP player.

    I'll wait.

    Well if this is what you're experiencing then my best advice would be to either go do the content when your server is quiet or bring a group of friends with you but like I said I can't see them implementing a PVE safe haven in Cyrodiil any time soon. Personally if I see low levels and/or questers in a Cyrodiil delve or in one of the towns I leave them be unless they try to attack me.
  • Ekadzati
    Ekadzati
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    Vlad9425 wrote: »
    Personally if I see low levels and/or questers in a Cyrodiil delve or in one of the towns I leave them be unless they try to attack me.

    This used to be the way, yes. PvP was conceptually a 'just war', not a 'total war'.
    This all changed right about the time they killed Lord British and Trammel ruleset arrived.
    But it really died in a fire when the industry decided that it wasn't really necessary (or important) to sustain mechanics that rewarded "bridge play" between PvP and PvE players.

    War Crimes as a concept used to matter.

    I miss those days. These days, people laugh at you because you actually think it's reasonable to want to avoid "conflict just for conflict's sake". THEN add in everything from the BNet kiddos to the BR fans today and, well, eh... likely for the best to just accept and move on... but since I tend not to turn to last resorts until I've at least tried to offer a compromise solution..... this post.

    Thank you for at least nodding to the idea that there's no "skill" nor "prowess" in attacking those clearly not seeking targets or attempting to complete clearly PvE goals... that's more than one usually sees.
    Registration date: November 2013
    Geek since 1974.
    Girl Gamer since 1976.
    Granny since 2014.
    Gut shooter since forever.
    Don't say you weren't warned.
    (Now where's my cane and why are you on my lawn?)

  • Taleof2Cities
    Taleof2Cities
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    Ekadzati wrote: »
    Ekadzati wrote: »
    I just think it's high time game companies started designing around giving each segment what they actually desire rather than continuing to try and force them to interact when, clearly, the actual amount of overlap is (far) less than assumed.

    That’s already in the game, @Ekadzati ... as I mentioned in my first reply above.

    ESO has designed 31 PvE zones (in your words 31 “segments”) where you’re free to play your style of gameplay ... no forced interactions. That’s somewhere around 94% of the total game.

    Ekadzati wrote: »
    I also think this would go a long way toward resolving the plaints of PvP players, since a change like this would most likely all but eliminate players who "ball up" and "zerg" (since they're usually PvE players trying to just clear a damn map without being ganked out every 5 minutes by people who, literally, could not care less about anyone's enjoyment but their own.

    PvE players are more interested in getting skyshards, clearing achievements, and finishing quests. They aren’t interested in being on the front lines of PvP in a “ball group” or “zerg”.

    Bottom line: If you’re not willing to try a different playstyle for a very small portion of the game’s playable area, you won’t be missing out on the very small portion of the achievements.

    You seem to be deliberately missing the point. Have fun with that.

    I understand your point.

    But, being a completionist means trying new or difficult playstyles.

    You’d rather change the entire game to suit your preferred playstyle.
    "May you walk on warm sands."
    "First, I would ask that you look to the poor and the suffering around Cyrodiil. Look into their hearts, and then look into your own."
    "May Auri-El's light guide you in your darkest hours."

    North American (NA) PC Megaserver (click to view):
    Vilerihala - Magicka Templar (Altmer ~ Dedicated Healer) ~ Màisalihna - Stamina Dragonknight (Bosmer) ~ Áhliaselia - Stamina Templar (Bosmer) ~ Thraccenia Vendicci - Stamina Sorcerer (Imperial) ~ daa'Vaaliánia - Magicka Warden (Dunmer) ~ Wenayastare - Magicka Dragonknight (Altmer) ~ Aráliavina - Stamina Nightblade (Bosmer) ~ Ysyna Rielle - Magicka Warden (Breton) ~ Dro-r'Aahni Bright-Paws - Magicka Necromancer (Khajiit) ~ Rhusannah - Stamina Nightblade (Redguard) ~ Eirellonye - Magicka Nightblade (Altmer) ~ Lae'Suuriávia - Stamina Warden (Bosmer) ~ Dralora Savani - Magicka Sorcerer (Dunmer) ~ Billows-With-Incense - Magicka Warden (Argonian ~ Dedicated Healer) ~ Anísa'Vardaia - Health Dragonknight (Imperial) ~ Azhnakha gra-Shugarz - Stamina Necromancer (Orc) ~ Vilinalara - Magicka Sorcerer (Altmer ~ Grand Master Crafter)
  • Ekadzati
    Ekadzati
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    Ekadzati wrote: »
    Ekadzati wrote: »
    I just think it's high time game companies started designing around giving each segment what they actually desire rather than continuing to try and force them to interact when, clearly, the actual amount of overlap is (far) less than assumed.

    That’s already in the game, @Ekadzati ... as I mentioned in my first reply above.

    ESO has designed 31 PvE zones (in your words 31 “segments”) where you’re free to play your style of gameplay ... no forced interactions. That’s somewhere around 94% of the total game.

    Ekadzati wrote: »
    I also think this would go a long way toward resolving the plaints of PvP players, since a change like this would most likely all but eliminate players who "ball up" and "zerg" (since they're usually PvE players trying to just clear a damn map without being ganked out every 5 minutes by people who, literally, could not care less about anyone's enjoyment but their own.

    PvE players are more interested in getting skyshards, clearing achievements, and finishing quests. They aren’t interested in being on the front lines of PvP in a “ball group” or “zerg”.

    Bottom line: If you’re not willing to try a different playstyle for a very small portion of the game’s playable area, you won’t be missing out on the very small portion of the achievements.

    You seem to be deliberately missing the point. Have fun with that.

    I understand your point.

    But, being a completionist means trying new or difficult playstyles.

    You’d rather change the entire game to suit your preferred playstyle.

    Incorrect and since you're managed to miss it this many times in this same thread, I'm pretty sure it's by choice.

    So, have fun with that, too.

    /tips hat
    Registration date: November 2013
    Geek since 1974.
    Girl Gamer since 1976.
    Granny since 2014.
    Gut shooter since forever.
    Don't say you weren't warned.
    (Now where's my cane and why are you on my lawn?)

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