Rikumaru wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

2% Movement speed.

yes

Nice sig, 1 day brother, 1 day.

EpicRekkoning wrote: »

Sneak and sneak detection is the only thing I would change because it's only really viable in thieves guild, dark brotherhood, and some pvp builds. Changing to crit resistance would be terrible because it would only effect pvp content. I'm not sure what a good option would be. Increase max stam by 2% per piece? Provide resistance to spell effects (burning, chill, shock)?...

If they made sneaking a viable play style in endgame (PVE and PVP), I would he okay with leaving MA alone.

It's fine if it only affects pvp, that's sort of the point. Health Regen isn't very useful in pve for HA and Sprint Cost Reduction/Snare Reduction isn't very useful for LA.

Resistance to status effects is kind of a cool idea, but I feel it's too big of a direct counter to Mag builds and MA frankly doesn't need it right now.

Vapirko wrote: »

I’d agree with this. The one other thing is that LA and HA can dip into more medium passives than MA can take from the LA/HA passives. I think this should be changed. No reason why LA and HA should be able to capitalize on MA passives while already being the better armor types.

Exactly.

My proposition is for MA/LA to both have 5 piece for 10% crit. This would nerf Stam HA Meta slightly too.

Light Armor:
Sprint Cost, Snare Effectiveness
Mag Cost, Mag Regen
Spell Resist
Spell Crit 10% (5 Pieces)
Spell Penetration (5 Pieces)

Medium Armor:
Movement Speed, Roll Dodge Cost
Sta Cost, Sta Regen
Crit Resist
Weapon Crit 10% (5 Pieces)
Weapon Damage 15% (5 Pieces)

Heavy Armor:
HP%
HP regen and Sta/Mag Return
Physical/Spell Resist
Healing Received (5 Pieces)
Heavy Attack Sustain (5 Pieces)

Agree with your analysis. Changing the way you get crit, replacing sprint speed with general movement speed, and replacing the sneak passives with some other bonus (crit resist would be nice to add more well fitted pieces).

All of those would be fantastic. One thing to note is that the sprint speed increase forces many instances where one hits the speed cap rather easily with sprint but being nowhere close without sprinting.

An increase on the sprint cost reduction for light armor would go a long way as well. The way that snare reduction works is extremely ineffective. An additive function, instead of multiplicative would be fantastic.

Great post

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Seriously?

Considering the whole Stamina DD vs Magicka DD gap, and you even want to IMPROVE stamina?

I mean, and i repeat it.

Seriously?

Geez if you want a balanced whole, dont start by the ONLY thing where mag is better than stamina right now, armour passives...

You didn't really read it did you. Plus stamina =/= Medium Armor, most Stamina builds killing you in pvp are Heavy.

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Seriously?

Considering the whole Stamina DD vs Magicka DD gap, and you even want to IMPROVE stamina?

I mean, and i repeat it.

Seriously?

Geez if you want a balanced whole, dont start by the ONLY thing where mag is better than stamina right now, armour passives...

You didn't really read it did you. Plus stamina =/= Medium Armor, most Stamina builds killing you in pvp are Heavy.

He was obviously talking about PvE, where none of this is true.

Ajax_22 wrote: »

Marshall1289 wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Seriously?

Considering the whole Stamina DD vs Magicka DD gap, and you even want to IMPROVE stamina?

I mean, and i repeat it.

Seriously?

Geez if you want a balanced whole, dont start by the ONLY thing where mag is better than stamina right now, armour passives...

You didn't really read it did you. Plus stamina =/= Medium Armor, most Stamina builds killing you in pvp are Heavy.

He was obviously talking about PvE, where none of this is true.

Maybe, but I didn't mention anything that makes Medium better in pve to Light. I honestly think they didn't read anything because I went over buffs for Light Armor too.

Edit: They did read it, alright.

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Oh yes, i read it. Mostly asking for taking Sneak out and replacing it for crit resistance, meaning zero use for PvE (ofc thinking about pvp but game has pve also. Sneak has both uses in pvp and pve and thematically is fit with medium armour), and getting more crit. Oh, and 15% WD on latter stages is better than the LA penetration, but in this case, it´s "balanced".

I read a petition from a stamina user to get improved, that is. It is fair if stamina was in bad place, but luckly for all our stamina toons, is quite the opposite. Stamina rules in PvE and will fare kinda well after heavy armor nerfs, will probably rule PvP aswell.

Again. Ask for buffs when your class/stat is weak. Right now, this looks ridiculous. More powa! yeah!

I pve and pvp too, a passive for only pvp is fine by the games standards. To me, the sneak passive does nothing for pve currently anyway. It's just another pvp/rp passive. I proposed it should be available to everyone, but tied to a choice between other passives so not every build would use it. Maybe with an updated CP system designed around just Nodes instead of the stat bonuses could offer it.

You can say what you want about it being used for only Medium Armor or "Rouges" in RPGs, but that isn't really true to Elder Scrolls or this game for that matter. In past games you were able to use Spells to also improve sneak proficiency, Mag Nightblades are a thing in this game and they effectively can use cloak more than any Stamblade can. Look at CP which reduced Sneak Cost. There isn't any reason the passive should be exclusive to MA and it just weighs it down.

I have interests in both camps, that's why I felt LA needs changes too. If Stamina builds are ahead then ZOS should look at all aspects of the game, my changes to Medium Armor and Light Armor only make them stronger in comparison to Heavy and bring some much needed balance between the 2.

In a patch all about Audit's I believed it was worth mentioning the differences.

Like seriously, you think my only interest is Medium if I proposed to give Light the same access to Sneak passives, buffs to Snare and Sprint cost, as well as access to the 2 proposed changes I mentioned for Medium: Crit Resistance and Movement Speed per piece. I could of easily said those passives should be tied to a 5 piece bonus.

If you felt my small analysis(made it clear it requires in game testing) about the Pen vs Weapon Damage was off, feel free to dissect it.

You haven't really done anything to disprove my statements other than thinking I'm a Stamina Meta fanboy so I'd love for you to actually provide some constructive feedback instead of:

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

Geez if you want a balanced whole, dont start by the ONLY thing where mag is better than stamina right now, armour passives...

Thank you for proving some of my points.

Of course i prove some of your points! As i said, this is the ONLY thing where mag has better things than stamina. Oh, and Bloody Mara which is again nerfed back, so that doesn´t count.

You´re not asking for standarization, you´re asking for balance. Maybe you try to compare with HA but what you did here was a simple LA vs MA comparison. Again, if both stats were balanced, id agree with you. In the current state of the things, we better should ask for magicka vigor, magicka relequen/lokke, magicka melee weapons, 15% cost mag reduction, general DPS output balanced which is not, etc etc...

By the way, one thing to wonder about. MA has a BIG advantage for the sake of it. Gives more armor (resists) than LA. Why? shouldn´t it be balanced, and equaled? I think you forgot that one.

Other games just balance things different. LA gives less protection but more buffs to damage/heal, MA gives medium protection and just medium buffs to damage/heal, HA gives the most protection but less buffs to damage/heal. That sounds way more balanced than most of your proposals, don´t you think?

I don't think medium is as bad as some make it out to be, but it does need a little love.

I like the idea of the movement speed buff.

I DO NOT like the idea of taking sneak bonuses away. Doesn't make sense to tie to TG from the way TG is designed or lock it behind a DLC and medium armor being sneaky is kind of an RPG thing. It's also useful in some areas of both PvE and PvP, just not useful in parsing.

They could also make some simple changes like putting a flat rate of weapon crit bonus of 2K for like 5 pcs of medium, this allows you to wear 1 LA/HA ea. pc for undaunted and still benefit from the full passive without feeling like you have to go all 7 medium. LA isn't trapped in this area as badly as medium is and that would actually match it to LA's design very evenly in that regard.

I also think the changes to evasion will make medium more desirable, we can't overlook that IMO.

Still nobody wanting to think of us, healers (i'm only talking about the last 2 passives here) :
- Spell Penetration is useless on a healer, whereas WD increases the efficiency of healing too
- Crit is a bit more useful but since we have low crit chance and some source of increase crit like Minor Force don't apply on heals any more , and the fact we can't really rely on Crit Healing to keep somebody alive, it results that we have 1.25/1.5 useless passive on LA, whereas MA only have 0.25/0.5 useless passive (on a healer i mean)

The best solution would be having morphs of passive like skills, but it's not even a dream, neither an utopia, it's way past this point

I think medium vs light isn’t the issue for the dps disparity been mag and stam. The issue is the destro staff passives sort of suck and weapon damage scaling vs max mag. Destro staff passives are the weakest damage passives on a weapon, which is why you get higher tooltips using S&B, 2H and DW.

If light attacks on weapons weren’t tied to either mag or stam depending on the weapon I don’t think any mag class would use destro staves.

Looking at destro passives:

WHILE USING A DESTRUCTION
STAFF HEAVY ATTACK

DPS is based around light attack weaving

Allows your Destruction Staff spells to ignore 10% of an enemy's Spell Resistance only effects destruction staff abilities.

Increases your chance of afflicting enemies with Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects by 100%, good synergy with fire blockade but it’s not that good

Flame Staff increases your damage done with single target abilities by 8% which is the only decent passive.

Restores 3600 Magicka when you kill a target with a Destruction Staff spell or Weapon attack is limiting to destro staff abilities

Destro staff passives are more limited then other weapon skill passives because they mainly help destruction staff abilities.

Iskiab wrote: »

I think medium vs light isn’t the issue for the dps disparity been mag and stam. The issue is the destro staff passives sort of suck and weapon damage scaling vs max mag. Destro staff passives are the weakest damage passives on a weapon, which is why you get higher tooltips using S&B, 2H and DW.

If light attacks on weapons weren’t tied to either mag or stam depending on the weapon I don’t think any mag class would use destro staves.

Looking at destro passives:

WHILE USING A DESTRUCTION
STAFF HEAVY ATTACK

DPS is based around light attack weaving

Allows your Destruction Staff spells to ignore 10% of an enemy's Spell Resistance only effects destruction staff abilities.

Increases your chance of afflicting enemies with Burning, Concussion, and Chilled status effects by 100%, good synergy with fire blockade but it’s not that good

Flame Staff increases your damage done with single target abilities by 8% which is the only decent passive.

Restores 3600 Magicka when you kill a target with a Destruction Staff spell or Weapon attack is limiting to destro staff abilities

Destro staff passives are more limited then other weapon skill passives because they mainly help destruction staff abilities.

Agreed.

My post was mainly about PVP and the difference between the Armor passives and how they should be adjusted, not the overall state of Mag vs Sta in PVE DPS, but for anyone with that concern, I'd agree with your point.

2H, Bow and Destruction Staves all need reworks to their passives.

Frankly a new Weapon for Melee Magicka is high on my wish list or something like a hybrid skill line with Spell Book in 1 hand and Totem in the other.