The yearlong story concept is great. I love it! Keep it up Zenimax!

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

I don't agree with the OP. I like the enhanced detail that year-long story arcs bring. It's analogous to seasons on Netflix, you can watch them in one binge session or at a more leisurely pace, the choice is yours. If you are in the game at the start of the year then you have to wait a few months for the next part, this raises anticipation, speculation, community discussion etc, it also allows for far more detail than in a single 45 min episode.

How exactly is the story of Elsweyr enhanced by Scalebreaker and Dragonhold? People keep saying how spending three DLCs with cats and dragons allegedly adds detail to the story, but don't really bring up any evidence except 'well it makes the story better'. The story isn't deeper or more detailed, it's just repetitive.

We will fight a dragon (again) surrounded by Khajiiti ruins (again) in Scalebreaker, does that somehow add more detail to the Euraxian Rebellion storyline? No. It just recycles assets, we disposed of Euraxia with just as little effort as we killed K'Tora in Summerset. We will also fight a bunch of Elsweyr vampires who want to drain a dragon surrounded by Khajiiti ruins (again) in Scalebreaker, does that somehow add more character depth to Cadwell or Khamira? No. It just recycles assets, their storylines already reached a satisfying conclusion just like Leythen's and Valsirenn's in Summerset.Telling three stories that all take place in the same setting, have the same vibe, and face the same enemies doesn't make these stories more detailed.

Also, if it's anticipation you're looking for, a mysterious fresh update generates far more suspense and speculation, community discussion, etc, than ZOS announcing that the entire year will have cats and dragons and nothing else. If anything, that kills anticipation, not raises it.

They haven’t milked Skyrim (West), yet.

I'm not saying you're wrong but there are a few issues with your arguments.

Firstly, you're kind of arguing from the standpoint that previously the content was all standalone which isn't the case. It wasn't a continuous story but there was definitely connections there. A year of stories is easier to follow than standalone stories that may or may not be connected.

Secondly, you're judging the concept of a year long season off the back of one that's only half way through. Yes the last part will be cats and Dragons and Abnur Tharn will probably turn up again but that doesn't mean it can't have it's own feel. The supporting cast will be different and we get to find out more about Sai Sahan and The Dragonguard, and it'll be interesting to see how they deal with the fact that Sai might be dead. At least wait for it to be released before you write it off as a terrible idea.

Thirdly, even tho this year's stories are all based in the same area doesn't mean that further years will be. There isn't any reason why a story that begins in Western Skyrim can't finish in a part of Cyrodiil. Or we could get a chapter in a Daedric realm that follows up in Hammerfell.

Lastly, the writing and design of Elsweyr was by far the best of any content so far, so if the year long story leads to better quality content it's worth giving it a chance!

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

bluebird wrote: »

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

I don't agree with the OP. I like the enhanced detail that year-long story arcs bring. It's analogous to seasons on Netflix, you can watch them in one binge session or at a more leisurely pace, the choice is yours. If you are in the game at the start of the year then you have to wait a few months for the next part, this raises anticipation, speculation, community discussion etc, it also allows for far more detail than in a single 45 min episode.

How exactly is the story of Elsweyr enhanced by Scalebreaker and Dragonhold? People keep saying how spending three DLCs with cats and dragons allegedly adds detail to the story, but don't really bring up any evidence except 'well it makes the story better'. The story isn't deeper or more detailed, it's just repetitive.

We will fight a dragon (again) surrounded by Khajiiti ruins (again) in Scalebreaker, does that somehow add more detail to the Euraxian Rebellion storyline? No. It just recycles assets, we disposed of Euraxia with just as little effort as we killed K'Tora in Summerset. We will also fight a bunch of Elsweyr vampires who want to drain a dragon surrounded by Khajiiti ruins (again) in Scalebreaker, does that somehow add more character depth to Cadwell or Khamira? No. It just recycles assets, their storylines already reached a satisfying conclusion just like Leythen's and Valsirenn's in Summerset.Telling three stories that all take place in the same setting, have the same vibe, and face the same enemies doesn't make these stories more detailed.

Also, if it's anticipation you're looking for, a mysterious fresh update generates far more suspense and speculation, community discussion, etc, than ZOS announcing that the entire year will have cats and dragons and nothing else. If anything, that kills anticipation, not raises it.

You asked our opinion, I gave it, a wall of text arguing against my opinion is not going to change it, you're entitled to yours as I am entitled to mine. We will have to agree to disagree.

The reason I usually ask people to elaborate on their opinion is because 'it makes the story better' is not particularly informative. If people explained their rationate it might make it easier to understand where people are coming from. Do people enjoy community discussion and anticipation? What's better for that, a year with the same story or new themes to explore? Do people enjoy being able to cover a theme in-depth? What's better for that, a year-long story that mixes necromancers with cats and dragons, or a DLC dedicated to only werewolves for example?

There's a difference between having a personal preference which everybody is entitled to and between supporting something for reasons that don't hold up. Rich is perfectly within his rights to support a year-long story for example, but saying that it makes it easier to know what's going on and it gives players more choice to jump back in is not a valid reason.

lillybit wrote: »

Firstly, you're kind of arguing from the standpoint that previously the content was all standalone which isn't the case. It wasn't a continuous story but there was definitely connections there. A year of stories is easier to follow than standalone stories that may or may not be connected.

Secondly, you're judging the concept of a year long season off the back of one that's only half way through. Yes the last part will be cats and Dragons and Abnur Tharn will probably turn up again but that doesn't mean it can't have it's own feel. The supporting cast will be different and we get to find out more about Sai Sahan and The Dragonguard, and it'll be interesting to see how they deal with the fact that Sai might be dead. At least wait for it to be released before you write it off as a terrible idea.

Yes it's true that a year-long story doesn't have to involve the same location, but from the way the devs worded their preference for it, it sounded like that, unfortunately. They mentioned less workload for the art team, and being able to do the one continuous cinematic thing. Regarding your first point, I did acknowledge earlier content that had story connections, I brought up MW/CWC/SS and Wrathstone as an example of tying a storyline together without repeating the same locations, architecture, enemies, etc. We already saw a lot from Scalebreaker and Dragonhold to see that it's barely distinguishable from Elsweyr in looks; that already puts it way below SS and CWC which had story connections to Morrowind and still managed to be unique.

I loved how they added things in this game, as an old player, while thinking I'm glad not to be a new player.
Like. One Tamriel essentially introduced a ton of new sets by making the low levels being max level. And I could replay the low levels zones and get useful things out of them. For new players it removed the chronological order. In elder scrolls game you may have the choice to complete the content in any order, but it makes sense.

In ESO it does not make any sense. Characters know you and you don't know them, at least during Elsweyr Abnur treats it as if you hit your head somewhere

I don't like the approach primarily because it forces players to buy every single DLC during the year in order to experience the full story.

I felt the main quest in elsweyr was unfinished and of course it wasn't. Wanna know what's going on next? Buy the DLC! Yeah... no. Please make chapter stories fully complete and interesting like you did with Orainium and Summerset

I don't mind buying chapter for the price of virtually a whole new game as long as the content is on par with a whole new game. Please don't get greedy. I understabd hard work deserves to be paid but it starting to look like we're being taken advantage of. People just got used to this chapter content and now you're starting to put less effort into it.

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

I don't agree with the OP. I like the enhanced detail that year-long story arcs bring. It's analogous to seasons on Netflix, you can watch them in one binge session or at a more leisurely pace, the choice is yours. If you are in the game at the start of the year then you have to wait a few months for the next part, this raises anticipation, speculation, community discussion etc, it also allows for far more detail than in a single 45 min episode.

And if you don't like dragons then that's probably going to be bad news for you because sooner or later Skyrim is going to be added in another 1 or maybe 2-year arc and this, I am sure, will feature Dragonborn class, shout skill line and of course, dragons! I, for one, can't wait!

Bad news, they can't.

If we had a Dragonborn, the Planemeld wouldnt be happening and the IC questline would have a very different ending. There wont be a Dragonborn until Tiber Septim in a couple hundred years.

bluebird wrote: »

<snip>
2. Rich also described their earlier model of content design - such as Dragonbones, Summerset, Woldhunter, and Murkmire forming a year - as a 'hodgepodge of stories that didn't really connect to one another.' And Matt added that with Elsweyr they started the system in which 'All four content drops over the year tell the same story essentially''

<snip>

What do you think, do you prefer unrelated stories (Orsinium/Thieves Guild/Dark Brotherhood), slightly related stories (Morrowind/Clockwork City/Summerset), or year-long stories (Elsweyr/Scalebreaker/Dragonhold)?[/i]

A few thoughts. In backwards order.

Regarding "ways that stories have been implemented" I haven't had any complaints up until now. I've enjoyed all of the different approaches and my personal preference would be for them to keep switching it up, and just build in a navigation system to make it easier for players to work through content chronologically as others have said. There seems to be a whole new philosophy from ZOS recently which has to do with creating more absolutes... apparently this now applies to story lines as well as combat rules, and I find it all to be extremely unfortunate and less fun and creative than I'd like my MMO to be. Especially when the things that I'd prefer to be absolute (like certain aspects of lore or consistency to game logic) seem to be lacking.

So my answer would be: I would prefer different years of different types of story-telling as well as new ideas should they come up with any other strategies. To me this keeps my interest more than a known, planned schedule, regardless of which option is leveraged. Plus, there is no way to please every single person so it seems to me that a variety of methods is more likely to keep people from quitting if they don't like the strategy for the current year. Also, why lock themselves into one kind of method if they have a year where they can't come up with a good story that can stretch that far? It will start to feel contrived.

Secondly, I'd just like to say that I really dislike that hodepodge comment which really almost insults any of us that enjoyed those stories in an effort to "sell" the new strategy. It's like going to an interview and trashing where you came from, kinda. Saying that the yearlong arc was successful and popular is fine, but negatively portraying the other way of story telling, even if it is YOUR game and YOUR company, seems in poor taste.

Lastly, I am sure not everyone loves dragons and cats but I do think the "coolness" factor of dragons and cats in ESO contributed to the apparent success of this strategy. I am skeptical that year-long stories will always be as compelling and appealing to as wide of a variety of people as this particular combination has been, if indeed that is even the reason for why it's been a success. I have heard rumors of a certain other MMO falling out of favor which may have driven more traffic to ESO... but either way a yearlong theme that focused on Bretons and ravens would not have been nearly as marketable or successful.

Re: locking stories behind group content:

The Year of the Dragon dungeon content has been supplementary, not necessary. Instead of feeling like "if you miss this you won't get the plot of Elsweyr at all," it's more like, "the plot of Elsweyr had consequences on Tamriel and here's some stories about that". Example (No spoilers):

Abnur describing how he got the dragon tablet is a sufficient story for the Elsweyr plotline. Frostvault and Depths of Malatar (which aren't very plot-heavy) are just treasure-hunting stories. It's cool to see how they all connect, and it's cool to do the Elsweyr questline recognizing the tablets and knowing how they were retrieved, but it has nothing to do with dragons, Elsweyr, Khunzar-ri, Euraxia, nor Abnur.

If you're the type of person who doesn't do dungeons OR finds it difficult to follow stories in dungeons (because in PUGs they're impossible), Scalebreaker seemed to be the same. Elsweyr just explains why there ARE dragons, and the dungeons let the devs tell a fuller, more climactic story in the dungeons than they could in just an Elsweyr delve.

I like the Year of the Dragon (so far). It's cool to see the story and world of Tamriel interconnect - the Scalebreaker dungeons especially make the plot of Elsweyr feel more impactful and realistic. I would have loved to see more of Summerset (when do we get a Summerset dungeon??), and Artaeum/another Summerset island would have made an awesome DLC. That said, Murkmire was also really cool, and doesn't suffer from NOT being connected to other content.

I don't so much care about them "re-using" assets for two adjacent zones if they're good assets and make sense. The strength of the Morrowind chapter assets isn't that they're different from what's in Stonefalls or Deshaan, but that they're just really, really good imo. I do hope there are new Dragonhold furnishing plans tho ...

I preferred the previous way of handling chapters and dlc. We got to see way more of tamriel. OP is spot on.

bluebird wrote: »

Update with Scalebreaker and Dragonhold: I'm sorry to say that I was right in my concerns and the 'year-long story' indeed seems like an excuse to get away with creating less content than earlier years. I know people told me that 'it's too early to tell, you shouldn't complain before you see the whole year', but here we are with Dragonhold up on the PTS, and sadly ZOS proved that their 'year-long' gimmick resulted in a lower quality and quantity of content than previous years.

So the final verdict seems to be that the 'year-long story' is worse for the game since it means ZOS use it as an excuse to cut costs for the company, instead of delivering the content that the playerbase deserves.

• The dungeons of the Scalebreaker DLC heavily reused Elsweyr assets, and barely look any different from an Elsweyr delve or Public Dungeon.
• Southern Elsweyr is a copy-paste of Elsweyr assets (apart from a handful of exceptions), while CWC and Murkmire both had a unique look and style created for them.
• Southern Elsweyr also doesn't have any new furnishing styles and blueprints, while both CWC and Murkmire did.
• Dragonhold also doesn't add any Trial or Arena, while CWC added the Asylum Sanctorium trial, and Murkmire added the Blackrose Prison arena.

This isn't a minor lack of content and quality, all of these issues happened at the same time so the result is a drastically inferior game year than previous years. Not only is there less content to do with no added PvE instance, but the assets are also heavily re-used throughout the overland zones, and neither crafting nor housing got anything new except the same Elsweyr style and furniture copy-pasted throughout the rest of the year. I hope ZOS doesn't believe that their 'year-long story' excuse actually makes up for the utterly lackluster content we got this year, because that excuse doesn't hold up.

ZOS managed to create overarching stories (the Daedric threat storyline throughout Morrowind, CWC and Summerset) without recycling and milking the chapter for two extra DLCs. Even Wrathstone which launched the year-long story looked and felt different from Elsweyr (frozen Dwemer dungeon, Ayleid ruin dungeon), so 'over-arching story' and 'less content and assets' do not have to be synonymous.

So I just wanted to let ZOS know that we didn't miss the fact that this 'year of hype' delivered significantly less content than previous years did. I for one am very disappointed by the lack of quality and lack of new assets that they tried to pass off as some revolutionary way of storytelling, when in previous years ESO managed to deliver both overarching stories and the quality and quantity of content that we expect.

I can only hope that you won't take this year's model for next year - other MMOs already offer more content in their expansions alone, than what ESO delivers in their Chapter and 3 DLCs combined - so we really don't need you to wave around some 'year-long story' hype while you reduce the amount of content that you produce. It lowers the quality of the game significantly, many of us players won't stand to be shortchanged like this either, and you have also proven that you can do better - so please don't repeat the 'Season of the Dragon Hype without Content' model next year, for all our sakes.

I literally got a post downvoted to -20 on Reddit for saying it was disappointing we didn't get a trial or arena in Q4. Apparently "no one plays that content and DLC are better without it". I guess people are cool with paying the same amount of money for less content.