regime211 wrote: »

Heavy Armor ice DPS set.

Set of Gelid's Bone Chilling.
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type: Dungeon
Set bonus

(2 items) Adds 129 Spell Damage
(3 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(4 items) Adds 1206 Maximum Health
(5 items) When you take damage you place a extreme chill on your opponents which chills and reduces the Movement Speed of enemies by 70%, for up to 4 seconds causing enemies to take 11,000 cold damage every 4 seconds for 10 seconds and Grant's you minor protection for up to 5 seconds every 10 seconds.

Royaji wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

idk wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Can we also get some love for frost dps skills... frost “destruction” staff and the winters embrace line are a joke for people who want to actually do damage with this forsaken element

Zos is not likely to do much for the DPS part of the Frost staff as they chose to make it into an inferior tanking weapon so it is not ideal for anything.

Lol it is not inferior and is in fact supplementary with S&B and MANY tanks now use it. Stop trying to Rp and either use one of the two other elements you have or accept the slight decrease in dps like my werewolf has to.

That's not entirely true as most tanks and many streamers recomend a lightning staff as a matter of fact, and that's for many reasons: 1) tanks use their magicka for utility skills so you don't want to drain it while blocking with an ice staff, 2) a lightning staff is most useful to your team as it procs off-balance, 3) the main reason tanks play (any) staves nowadays is just because of the 1h enchant nerf so a wall of elements is a better source to proc crusher enchant.

And as you can see NONE of these reasons have anything to do with all those weird changes ZOS did to ice destro staves. They're cluncky, disfunctional and not useful leaving both groups of players (tanks and ice mages) with a bitter taste in their mouths with the current state of the ice destro staff.

This should be adressed soon IMO because ZOS is supposedly reviewing all skills and this ice issue has been going for far too long.

Try asking any tank worth their salt which backbar weapon they recommend for people who are reading a guide on tanking and the answer will be "ice staff". People who are just getting into tanking should not be running lightning. Ice staff offers nearly the same defensive capabilities as s&b except a bit of resistances from the shield. Getting caught on your backbar with a lightning quite often will get your killed. With ice you can block the heavy and shrug it off.

Unless you are an experienced long timetank with extensive knowledge of timings, patterns and animations of boss's attacks using ice staff is the best choice.

And to adress your points:
1) There are two camps here. Some people actually like blocking with magicka and want to have a free taunt. Others consider this a stupid idea and prefer to have dedicated resource pools and ability to heavy attack stuff you do not want to taunt. In this case you just don't take "Tri-focus". That's it. You block with stamina on your staff bar (all mitigation and cost reduction bonuses still apply) and can heavy attack to your heart's content.
2) Since maximum uptime on off-balance was capped it became a lot less important for tanks to run lightning blockade. It still helps, but it is nowhere close in importance compared to what was two years ago. Additionally current meta commonly utilises healers with Torug's who maintanin crusher with a lightning blockade which makes lightning blockade from a tank redundant.
3) Staves on backbar do indeed offer no hassle way of maintaining full power enchants but there are other reasons to use them. Access to Ele Drain for some fights or no healer runs, ranged interrupt for all those "this mechanic has to be interrupted or you all die" situations and just the general ability to restore magicka with a heavy attack which quite often comes in handy.

So no, ice staves are indeed quite useful for tanks and many of us will not be willing to lose them without any compensation. Say a dedicated tanking staff. But for now ice staves belong to tanks and we are not going to surrender them easily.

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

idk wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Can we also get some love for frost dps skills... frost “destruction” staff and the winters embrace line are a joke for people who want to actually do damage with this forsaken element

Zos is not likely to do much for the DPS part of the Frost staff as they chose to make it into an inferior tanking weapon so it is not ideal for anything.

Lol it is not inferior and is in fact supplementary with S&B and MANY tanks now use it. Stop trying to Rp and either use one of the two other elements you have or accept the slight decrease in dps like my werewolf has to.

That's not entirely true as most tanks and many streamers recomend a lightning staff as a matter of fact, and that's for many reasons: 1) tanks use their magicka for utility skills so you don't want to drain it while blocking with an ice staff, 2) a lightning staff is most useful to your team as it procs off-balance, 3) the main reason tanks play (any) staves nowadays is just because of the 1h enchant nerf so a wall of elements is a better source to proc crusher enchant.

And as you can see NONE of these reasons have anything to do with all those weird changes ZOS did to ice destro staves. They're cluncky, disfunctional and not useful leaving both groups of players (tanks and ice mages) with a bitter taste in their mouths with the current state of the ice destro staff.

This should be adressed soon IMO because ZOS is supposedly reviewing all skills and this ice issue has been going for far too long.

Try asking any tank worth their salt which backbar weapon they recommend for people who are reading a guide on tanking and the answer will be "ice staff". People who are just getting into tanking should not be running lightning. Ice staff offers nearly the same defensive capabilities as s&b except a bit of resistances from the shield. Getting caught on your backbar with a lightning quite often will get your killed. With ice you can block the heavy and shrug it off.

Unless you are an experienced long timetank with extensive knowledge of timings, patterns and animations of boss's attacks using ice staff is the best choice.

And to adress your points:
1) There are two camps here. Some people actually like blocking with magicka and want to have a free taunt. Others consider this a stupid idea and prefer to have dedicated resource pools and ability to heavy attack stuff you do not want to taunt. In this case you just don't take "Tri-focus". That's it. You block with stamina on your staff bar (all mitigation and cost reduction bonuses still apply) and can heavy attack to your heart's content.
2) Since maximum uptime on off-balance was capped it became a lot less important for tanks to run lightning blockade. It still helps, but it is nowhere close in importance compared to what was two years ago. Additionally current meta commonly utilises healers with Torug's who maintanin crusher with a lightning blockade which makes lightning blockade from a tank redundant.
3) Staves on backbar do indeed offer no hassle way of maintaining full power enchants but there are other reasons to use them. Access to Ele Drain for some fights or no healer runs, ranged interrupt for all those "this mechanic has to be interrupted or you all die" situations and just the general ability to restore magicka with a heavy attack which quite often comes in handy.

So no, ice staves are indeed quite useful for tanks and many of us will not be willing to lose them without any compensation. Say a dedicated tanking staff. But for now ice staves belong to tanks and we are not going to surrender them easily.

This is something I'd like adress. I know and fully understand that you require a backbar tanking weapon and that the frost staff feels like the best option. But in the long run, the frost staff is a DPS weapon, or, what counts is that it was and still is for the most part. What happened to it in Morrowind was extremely lazy and a really quick solution that feels like a placeholder untill a real weapon is developed. It is a DPS weapon not only lorewise, but ingame too. As it's skills are designed for DPS. The only thing that changed was 2 passives that made it focus more on bulk. So essentially right now it acts like a hybrid. It's not fantastic at either DPS or Tanking because it's 3/4 dps and 1/4 tanking. It's only ever suitable as a backbar weapon. I'm also not about to say that you should have options taken away from you. No. What needs to happen, is there needs to be a new weapon in the game. Designed from the ground up to be a tanking weapon. You might've heard it before but Alteration Staff is a thing that people have been throwing around. This would finally act as what the frost staff should have been. And we can finally get back on track with Warden's element. Changing ancient knowledge to have a critical focus. When i posted the survey on reddit and here on the forums, asking what changes the Frost Discord should focus on pushing towards, the results were that around 2/3 people who voted (out of more than 120 people), wanted us to focus on a DPS direction. However. There were 1/3 people who wished for tanking. I believe that a majority of these people voted for tanking because they would have no other alternative. Which i believe is a fair concern.

Tldr: the frost staff should be replaced by a real mag tanking weapon

Royaji wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Royaji wrote: »

luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

idk wrote: »

_Ahala_ wrote: »

Can we also get some love for frost dps skills... frost “destruction” staff and the winters embrace line are a joke for people who want to actually do damage with this forsaken element

Zos is not likely to do much for the DPS part of the Frost staff as they chose to make it into an inferior tanking weapon so it is not ideal for anything.

Lol it is not inferior and is in fact supplementary with S&B and MANY tanks now use it. Stop trying to Rp and either use one of the two other elements you have or accept the slight decrease in dps like my werewolf has to.

That's not entirely true as most tanks and many streamers recomend a lightning staff as a matter of fact, and that's for many reasons: 1) tanks use their magicka for utility skills so you don't want to drain it while blocking with an ice staff, 2) a lightning staff is most useful to your team as it procs off-balance, 3) the main reason tanks play (any) staves nowadays is just because of the 1h enchant nerf so a wall of elements is a better source to proc crusher enchant.

And as you can see NONE of these reasons have anything to do with all those weird changes ZOS did to ice destro staves. They're cluncky, disfunctional and not useful leaving both groups of players (tanks and ice mages) with a bitter taste in their mouths with the current state of the ice destro staff.

This should be adressed soon IMO because ZOS is supposedly reviewing all skills and this ice issue has been going for far too long.

Try asking any tank worth their salt which backbar weapon they recommend for people who are reading a guide on tanking and the answer will be "ice staff". People who are just getting into tanking should not be running lightning. Ice staff offers nearly the same defensive capabilities as s&b except a bit of resistances from the shield. Getting caught on your backbar with a lightning quite often will get your killed. With ice you can block the heavy and shrug it off.

Unless you are an experienced long timetank with extensive knowledge of timings, patterns and animations of boss's attacks using ice staff is the best choice.

And to adress your points:
1) There are two camps here. Some people actually like blocking with magicka and want to have a free taunt. Others consider this a stupid idea and prefer to have dedicated resource pools and ability to heavy attack stuff you do not want to taunt. In this case you just don't take "Tri-focus". That's it. You block with stamina on your staff bar (all mitigation and cost reduction bonuses still apply) and can heavy attack to your heart's content.
2) Since maximum uptime on off-balance was capped it became a lot less important for tanks to run lightning blockade. It still helps, but it is nowhere close in importance compared to what was two years ago. Additionally current meta commonly utilises healers with Torug's who maintanin crusher with a lightning blockade which makes lightning blockade from a tank redundant.
3) Staves on backbar do indeed offer no hassle way of maintaining full power enchants but there are other reasons to use them. Access to Ele Drain for some fights or no healer runs, ranged interrupt for all those "this mechanic has to be interrupted or you all die" situations and just the general ability to restore magicka with a heavy attack which quite often comes in handy.

So no, ice staves are indeed quite useful for tanks and many of us will not be willing to lose them without any compensation. Say a dedicated tanking staff. But for now ice staves belong to tanks and we are not going to surrender them easily.

snip

Tldr: the frost staff should be replaced by a real mag tanking weapon

Guess I'll have to start adding a TL:DR to my posts too since people who would like to adress them definitely do not read them.

Royaji wrote: »

So no, ice staves are indeed quite useful for tanks and many of us will not be willing to lose them without any compensation. Say a dedicated tanking staff. But for now ice staves belong to tanks and we are not going to surrender them easily.

I'm not against an idea of a dedicated tanking staff. Or just another weapon with similar utility in general. The big difference is that right now I'm happy with where ice staff is. And I just think that any kind of discussion about ice being turned back into a DD weapon should only happen once that alternative tanking weapon is implemented. ZOS are not known for their swift approach so if ice staff were to be changed next patch there is a good chance we would be waiting another year or so for the "tanking staff" to appear.

Oh and that other "dude" is of course free to "hold his points". It's just a good idea to remind others how objectively inaccurate they are.