HEALING WARD - Needs adjustment
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Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »Shield stacking is really the only concern I have.
The heals are kind of nutty, but in most situations that 8-10k shield (at 20% health...) is not gonna stay a 10k shield for 1 second.
Two classes can make this the most broken thing ever in the game... sorc and magblade. Streak and Cloak+shade.
So ruin Healing Ward for 4 classes because 2 other classes have broken skills since this game launched? There’s an easy fix for Cloak at least, surpress healing over time while cloaked. Or let Cloak cause Major Defile. It’s an easy solution to fix abuse of Cloak. For Streak... do something similar. Problem fixed. I never understood why NBs can cloak with 20% life and can come back with 100% three seconds later.
Consider the history here- what’s more likely to get changed/go live?
Are they going to uproot 2 classes -that yes- have very strong skills, or just make the scaling of healing ward more reasonable?
Invis cloak can be easily countered, but with this healing ward idea, it wouldn’t matter.Edited by Insco851 on July 23, 2019 2:13PM0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Major point here is BRR, shield stack, disengage options such as shade, cloak, streak... all have broken benefits when combined with the previous mentioned style of play. I mean... you only need 1 second of a 15k heal to be damn near unkillable- as long as you can sustain.1 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Major point here is BRR, shield stack, disengage options such as shade, cloak, streak... all have broken benefits when combined with the previous mentioned style of play. I mean... you only need 1 second of a 15k heal to be damn near unkillable- as long as you can sustain.
But all of those mechanics can be used with Regeneration too (which will be very strong also).
There's no reason for anyone to try to push their agendas in this thread.
This thread is about how powerful Healing Ward is on the PTS currently and as ZoS said they are paying close attention to it.
It will get adjusted but it still won't make some happy.5 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭brandonv516 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Shield stacking is really the only concern I have.
The heals are kind of nutty, but in most situations that 8-10k shield (at 20% health...) is not gonna stay a 10k shield for 1 second.
Two classes can make this the most broken thing ever in the game... sorc and magblade. Streak and Cloak+shade.
So ruin Healing Ward for 4 classes because 2 other classes have broken skills since this game launched? There’s an easy fix for Cloak at least, surpress healing over time while cloaked. Or let Cloak cause Major Defile. It’s an easy solution to fix abuse of Cloak. For Streak... do something similar. Problem fixed. I never understood why NBs can cloak with 20% life and can come back with 100% three seconds later.
Yes let's turn this into a Nerf Nightblade thread. :Rolls eyes:
It's not an easy solution for Nightblades. It's just easy for you.
Has nothing to do with nerfing Nightblades in particular, it’s just something that should have happened a long time ago because it was and still is a broken mechanic. We see exactly that as it’s one of the reasons why the new Healing Ward can be abused again solely because of this skill (and Streak).
Without those tools the shield won’t stay long on you especially not with all the DoTs being a thing in U23. I agree the 100% heal might be too strong (btw I was the first one who opened a thread about the Healing Ward changes last week and brought up this problem) but it’s only when you have options to disengage or save the shield via other shields. 50% might be the reasonable solution, anything less would require the absorb scaling to be increased again.Edited by Seraphayel on July 23, 2019 2:24PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭brandonv516 wrote: »Major point here is BRR, shield stack, disengage options such as shade, cloak, streak... all have broken benefits when combined with the previous mentioned style of play. I mean... you only need 1 second of a 15k heal to be damn near unkillable- as long as you can sustain.
But all of those mechanics can be used with Regeneration too (which will be very strong also).
There's no reason for anyone to try to push their agendas in this thread.
This thread is about how powerful Healing Ward is on the PTS currently and as ZoS said they are paying close attention to it.
It will get adjusted but it still won't make some happy.
Dark cloak? Ehhh how about healing ward and invis for a sec while my ward+regen ticks me to full after 1 sec0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Shield stacking is really the only concern I have.
The heals are kind of nutty, but in most situations that 8-10k shield (at 20% health...) is not gonna stay a 10k shield for 1 second.
Two classes can make this the most broken thing ever in the game... sorc and magblade. Streak and Cloak+shade.
So ruin Healing Ward for 4 classes because 2 other classes have broken skills since this game launched? There’s an easy fix for Cloak at least, surpress healing over time while cloaked. Or let Cloak cause Major Defile. It’s an easy solution to fix abuse of Cloak. For Streak... do something similar. Problem fixed. I never understood why NBs can cloak with 20% life and can come back with 100% three seconds later.
Yes let's turn this into a Nerf Nightblade thread. :Rolls eyes:
It's not an easy solution for Nightblades. It's just easy for you.
Has nothing to do with nerfing Nightblades in particular, it’s just something that should have happened a long time ago because it was and still is a broken mechanic. We see exactly that as it’s one of the reasons why the new Healing Ward can be abused again solely because of this skill (and Streak).
Without those tools the shield won’t stay long on you especially not with all the DoTs being a thing in U23. I agree the 100% heal might be too strong (btw I was the first one who opened a thread about the Healing Ward changes last week and brought up this problem) but it’s only when you have options to disengage or save the shield via other shields. 50% might be the reasonable solution, anything less would require the absorb scaling to be increased again.
Look, invis/cloak is not broken or OP on live rn. One detect pot and mr cloak boy gonna get slapped. There are plenty of counters to it, namely the detect pot. I will get mad at myself if I happen to end up in a fight and had ran out of detect pots... because then, yes the mechanic is incredibly strong. Currently it’s a low ceiling high floor skill. Next patch it’ll be high ceiling as well with these healing/ward changes.
As well as the dot meta that is coming.Edited by Insco851 on July 23, 2019 2:46PM2 -
ProzTh3Almighty✭✭✭In the video the HW heal goes from 15kish without the BRP resto to 18kish with it. Not too crazy of an increase. Just put battle spirit back on it then down to 75% remaining strength an see where were at at that point. Nothing should bypass battle spirit.4
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killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Shield stacking is really the only concern I have.
The heals are kind of nutty, but in most situations that 8-10k shield (at 20% health...) is not gonna stay a 10k shield for 1 second.
Two classes can make this the most broken thing ever in the game... sorc and magblade. Streak and Cloak+shade.
So ruin Healing Ward for 4 classes because 2 other classes have broken skills since this game launched? There’s an easy fix for Cloak at least, surpress healing over time while cloaked. Or let Cloak cause Major Defile. It’s an easy solution to fix abuse of Cloak. For Streak... do something similar. Problem fixed. I never understood why NBs can cloak with 20% life and can come back with 100% three seconds later.
Yes let's turn this into a Nerf Nightblade thread. :Rolls eyes:
It's not an easy solution for Nightblades. It's just easy for you.
Has nothing to do with nerfing Nightblades in particular, it’s just something that should have happened a long time ago because it was and still is a broken mechanic. We see exactly that as it’s one of the reasons why the new Healing Ward can be abused again solely because of this skill (and Streak).
Without those tools the shield won’t stay long on you especially not with all the DoTs being a thing in U23. I agree the 100% heal might be too strong (btw I was the first one who opened a thread about the Healing Ward changes last week and brought up this problem) but it’s only when you have options to disengage or save the shield via other shields. 50% might be the reasonable solution, anything less would require the absorb scaling to be increased again.
No it's just this new healing ward can be abused by some playstyle has nothing to do with broken skill.
If the other class can barely benefit from it that means the new healing ward is a fail and need to be changed again without some skill making it OP.
Anyone that say it's fine is planning to abuse this skill and im saying this as someone who play mageblade a lot.3 -
Aznarb✭✭✭✭✭
✭ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »In the video the HW heal goes from 15kish without the BRP resto to 18kish with it. Not too crazy of an increase. Just put battle spirit back on it then down to 75% remaining strength an see where were at at that point. Nothing should bypass battle spirit.
This^
+ shield scaling.[ PC EU ]
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »In the video the HW heal goes from 15kish without the BRP resto to 18kish with it. Not too crazy of an increase. Just put battle spirit back on it then down to 75% remaining strength an see where were at at that point. Nothing should bypass battle spirit.
A lot of heals bypass battlespirit currently.
Funnel health + morphs.
Burning embers.
Sweeps.
Etc.
They do that because the scaling from them is already affected by battlepirit. They´re based on damage done or in case of healing ward - on shieldstrengh.
Those scaling factors are already reduced by 50% due to battlespirit and thus the heal does not need to be.
100% healing is overtuned though.
I think to actually balance this skill they have to untie the hot from the active shield. Just let it give the caster a hot that heals for X% (10 to 25%) of the initial shield strengh over 3 to 6s.
This would for one allow melee classes to capitalize on the whole healing function.
Then this would also discourage spamming - because recasting the shield at higher health would refresh the hot with lower strengh.Edited by Derra on July 23, 2019 5:08PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 505 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Shield stacking is really the only concern I have.
The heals are kind of nutty, but in most situations that 8-10k shield (at 20% health...) is not gonna stay a 10k shield for 1 second.
Two classes can make this the most broken thing ever in the game... sorc and magblade. Streak and Cloak+shade.
So ruin Healing Ward for 4 classes because 2 other classes have broken skills since this game launched? There’s an easy fix for Cloak at least, surpress healing over time while cloaked. Or let Cloak cause Major Defile. It’s an easy solution to fix abuse of Cloak. For Streak... do something similar. Problem fixed. I never understood why NBs can cloak with 20% life and can come back with 100% three seconds later.
Yes let's turn this into a Nerf Nightblade thread. :Rolls eyes:
It's not an easy solution for Nightblades. It's just easy for you.
Has nothing to do with nerfing Nightblades in particular, it’s just something that should have happened a long time ago because it was and still is a broken mechanic. We see exactly that as it’s one of the reasons why the new Healing Ward can be abused again solely because of this skill (and Streak).
Without those tools the shield won’t stay long on you especially not with all the DoTs being a thing in U23. I agree the 100% heal might be too strong (btw I was the first one who opened a thread about the Healing Ward changes last week and brought up this problem) but it’s only when you have options to disengage or save the shield via other shields. 50% might be the reasonable solution, anything less would require the absorb scaling to be increased again.
No it's just this new healing ward can be abused by some playstyle has nothing to do with broken skill.
If the other class can barely benefit from it that means the new healing ward is a fail and need to be changed again without some skill making it OP.
Anyone that say it's fine is planning to abuse this skill and im saying this as someone who play mageblade a lot.
The new Healing Ward is fine except for NB and Sorc due to Cloak and Streak/Shield stacking. It really is that simple.
You can get one or maybe, maybe two ticks out of it when you apply it and dodge roll - after that the shield is gone even more so when not only one but two or more enemies are attacking you.
They already nerfed the shield size by a considerable amount, if they nerf the healing again this skill becomes quite useless.
Don’t nerf Healing Ward because it can be abused by two broken class skills that got so many adjustments over the years and yet are still overperforming in several cases. Healing Ward is not the problem here, it’s the abusive synergy some class abilities create with it.
To prevent shieldstacking with it you could further make it the priority shield to get depleted when you’re shield stacking. So Healing Ward gets removed first and then Harness Magicka, Hardened Ward or whatever. There are several ways to fix it without gimping the skill again.Edited by Seraphayel on July 23, 2019 5:04PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -1 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »In the video the HW heal goes from 15kish without the BRP resto to 18kish with it. Not too crazy of an increase. Just put battle spirit back on it then down to 75% remaining strength an see where were at at that point. Nothing should bypass battle spirit.
This^
+ shield scaling.
75% of shieldstrengh + battlespirit would result in 37.5% of shieldstrengh.
That would arguably be weaker than the previous version of 25% of shieldstrengh + crit heals (which was abysmal). Not a good solution.Edited by Derra on July 23, 2019 5:06PM<Noricum>
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Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Hashtag_✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Contrary to what the Sorc apologists in here are trying to portray, it IS incredibly overtuned. Particularly so on Magsorcs, with their ability to layer and extra ward over it then Streak away while enjoying a full 6s of repeated burst healing.
Resto backbar is already good, and probably ideal in Scalebreaker with the nerf to pet builds. It doesn't need extra reasons to be slotted.
As I said, the problem in this case is Sorc and not Healing Ward. It’s just another problem occurring because of a) shield stacking or b) class mechanics that were, are and will be overperforming in the future (Streak, Cloak).Lord_Eomer wrote: »Blackrose restoration staff needs to be significantly tuned down as well.
Black-rose restoration staff may need adjustment but healing ward should not nerf to ground due to Blackrose restro,
Shield stacking is major issue which should be addressed rather than nerf to each shield skill or weapon set
Um that already happened.1 -
iCaliban✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seraphayel wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »brandonv516 wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Shield stacking is really the only concern I have.
The heals are kind of nutty, but in most situations that 8-10k shield (at 20% health...) is not gonna stay a 10k shield for 1 second.
Two classes can make this the most broken thing ever in the game... sorc and magblade. Streak and Cloak+shade.
So ruin Healing Ward for 4 classes because 2 other classes have broken skills since this game launched? There’s an easy fix for Cloak at least, surpress healing over time while cloaked. Or let Cloak cause Major Defile. It’s an easy solution to fix abuse of Cloak. For Streak... do something similar. Problem fixed. I never understood why NBs can cloak with 20% life and can come back with 100% three seconds later.
Yes let's turn this into a Nerf Nightblade thread. :Rolls eyes:
It's not an easy solution for Nightblades. It's just easy for you.
Has nothing to do with nerfing Nightblades in particular, it’s just something that should have happened a long time ago because it was and still is a broken mechanic. We see exactly that as it’s one of the reasons why the new Healing Ward can be abused again solely because of this skill (and Streak).
Without those tools the shield won’t stay long on you especially not with all the DoTs being a thing in U23. I agree the 100% heal might be too strong (btw I was the first one who opened a thread about the Healing Ward changes last week and brought up this problem) but it’s only when you have options to disengage or save the shield via other shields. 50% might be the reasonable solution, anything less would require the absorb scaling to be increased again.
No it's just this new healing ward can be abused by some playstyle has nothing to do with broken skill.
If the other class can barely benefit from it that means the new healing ward is a fail and need to be changed again without some skill making it OP.
Anyone that say it's fine is planning to abuse this skill and im saying this as someone who play mageblade a lot.
The new Healing Ward is fine except for NB and Sorc due to Cloak and Streak/Shield stacking. It really is that simple.
You can get one or maybe, maybe two ticks out of it when you apply it and dodge roll - after that the shield is gone even more so when not only one but two or more enemies are attacking you.
They already nerfed the shield size by a considerable amount, if they nerf the healing again this skill becomes quite useless.
Don’t nerf Healing Ward because it can be abused by two broken class skills that got so many adjustments over the years and yet are still overperforming in several cases. Healing Ward is not the problem here, it’s the abusive synergy some class abilities create with it.
To prevent shieldstacking with it you could further make it the priority shield to get depleted when you’re shield stacking. So Healing Ward gets removed first and then Harness Magicka, Hardened Ward or whatever. There are several ways to fix it without gimping the skill again.
Its fine ON nightblade and sorc. When a class toolkit works well with something, we call that synergy, not "OMG ITS OP PLZ NERF"
If the new RR and vigor arent OP, then neither is healing ward. Frankly, with all the nerfs to defensive mechanics, PVP badly needs strong self healing or this game will turn into call of duty with .2 second TTK's2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What i´d be interested in: Has anybody pts footage that would showcase that the current healing ward IS overtuned on nb and sorc?
I mean i´ve used it in duels - and it does heal me up really quickly. But going streak=>hw or hardened => hw is not much different from a dk pressing blackrose hw + coag or a templar pressing 2x bol.
Neither cost wise nor gcd wise.
When taking actual high dmg it can still feel worse than an actual burstheal sometimes (though it can feel better aswell).Edited by Derra on July 23, 2019 5:18PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What i´d be interested in: Has anybody pts footage that would showcase that the current healing ward IS overtuned on nb and sorc?
Can't you just make up your mind on that with the experience you have?
Healing Ward and immediately Cloak once, Cloak twice, god knows how much. I mean 2-3 ticks are more than enough to get you to full. Basically the same for Streak. Apply Healing Ward and immediately Streak away. The other players lose you as target and that alone secures you a few seconds for Healing Ward to tick. DoTs are the only potential problem here yet as long as you can disengage out of combat you clearly are benefitting way more from the new Healing Ward than classes / builds that can't. And I'm sure we don't want to make Cloak or Streak even stronger due to this.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Hashtag_✭✭✭✭✭The only pvp class this won’t be good on is magplar and that’s just because it’s kit functions better with other setups.0
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »What i´d be interested in: Has anybody pts footage that would showcase that the current healing ward IS overtuned on nb and sorc?
Can't you just make up your mind on that with the experience you have?
Healing Ward and immediately Cloak once, Cloak twice, god knows how much. I mean 2-3 ticks are more than enough to get you to full. Basically the same for Streak. Apply Healing Ward and immediately Streak away. The other players lose you as target and that alone secures you a few seconds for Healing Ward to tick. DoTs are the only potential problem here yet as long as you can disengage out of combat you clearly are benefitting way more from the new Healing Ward than classes / builds that can't. And I'm sure we don't want to make Cloak or Streak even stronger due to this.
Oh i feel it´s overtuned. That´s my gutfeeling.
I´ve also tested in pve and it seems rediculous there.
I´ve dueled a tiny bit with it on sorc and it actually performed well - but not as good as i would have expected it to.
I just don´t know if that´s related to sorc being in a generally *** state on pts and if it´s better with cloak.
Or if it was related to the opponents i fought (templar and DK - heavy dot setups aren´t great for shield builds to fight).
So instead of providing a definitive opinion i´m asking for other people to sheir their experience to make up my mind a little more - reasonable no?
Edit: Then i´ve also provided an idea a few posts above that i think would make this skill less polarizing and actually help improve it´s performance on other classes.Edited by Derra on July 23, 2019 5:26PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
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Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Shield stacking is really the only concern I have.
The heals are kind of nutty, but in most situations that 8-10k shield (at 20% health...) is not gonna stay a 10k shield for 1 second.
Two classes can make this the most broken thing ever in the game... sorc and magblade. Streak and Cloak+shade.
LOL, what an absurd exaggeration! You know it's not possible to heal beyond your max health, right? The worst that can happen is that the magblade or sorc heals to full in a couple seconds. You do know that there are plenty of templars out there who can heal from 0-100 in ONE GCD with just ONE CLICK? Why aren't you calling them "the most broken thing ever"?#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
MaxJrFTW✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The same people claiming pet sorcs weren't op are the ones defending a broken ability that clearly isn't working as intended.
"I don't know you, and I don't care to know you."
―Ulrich Leland, 3E 4337 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
This is such a good and simple solution I am surprised it isn’t a thing yet.
Heck even bring in another buff to counter that like Minor / Major Shieldbreaker where your skills cut through shields for 8%/25% of their damage.
So you would be cool with Stam Sorcs having easy access to "Major Shield"? Because if they did I would race change to an Orc so fast...#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »
This is such a good and simple solution I am surprised it isn’t a thing yet.
Heck even bring in another buff to counter that like Minor / Major Shieldbreaker where your skills cut through shields for 8%/25% of their damage.
So you would be cool with Stam Sorcs having easy access to "Major Shield"? Because if they did I would race change to an Orc so fast...
Major and minor shields don´t work bc there are too many small shields in the game on sets, passives CP and other things. It´d be a nightmare to balance through.
Also does anyone on pts feel shieldstacking OUTSIDE OF HEALING WARD THIS INCREMENTAL is still an issue?Edited by Derra on July 23, 2019 5:29PM<Noricum>
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Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
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Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭Emma_Overload wrote: »Shield stacking is really the only concern I have.
The heals are kind of nutty, but in most situations that 8-10k shield (at 20% health...) is not gonna stay a 10k shield for 1 second.
Two classes can make this the most broken thing ever in the game... sorc and magblade. Streak and Cloak+shade.
LOL, what an absurd exaggeration! You know it's not possible to heal beyond your max health, right? The worst that can happen is that the magblade or sorc heals to full in a couple seconds. You do know that there are plenty of templars out there who can heal from 0-100 in ONE GCD with just ONE CLICK? Why aren't you calling them "the most broken thing ever"?
Templars don’t have the same mobility as nb and sorc. Said sorc can peel away and reset the fight, nb will cloak/shade and reset the fight. Templar can sure- spam massive heals while having to face tank... they will still be easier to kill than either of the former who can freely disengage.
Also, this is coming from someone who mainly plays magblade. It’ll be stupid lol.2 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭Healing ward is strong and vigor is strong good I hate nerfs they need to be strong anyway to keep you alive.1 -
katorga✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It is going to be a tanky/healer meta. Who didn't get the memo?
From the end of the second video,
. Then off to the nerf races.You are going to need these heals because of the dot meta, I understand that, however....
I sort of take issue with the second video claiming it needs to be sized less than major-mending vigor so that stam DK remains the best heal. Logically magicka should always be best at healing and have more healing options (they do have more options, but vigor was always the best heal).
Edited by katorga on July 23, 2019 6:47PM1 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It is going to be a tanky/healer meta. Who didn't get the memo?
Yeah ZOS is failing at killing it because they aren't looking at the big picture. I bet the healing ward would still crit in CP by the CP star "vengence". Someone test that yet? I can't log PTS and see right now...but its definitely worth making sure it doesn't!0 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Overload wrote: »NOPE.
Let's see how long shields hold up in the Onslaught + DOTs era before we talk about nerfing Resto heals.
Early prediction: Not going to hold up ...
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cheemers✭✭✭✭✭This thread has far too many apologists for this kind of busted heal. Whether you use Healing Ward or not (spoiler - I use it on half my builds), you should be able to see past personal bias to realise that in its PTS state the skill is BUSTED and will ruin PvP. I'm a console player and we've had to deal with bash necros since Elsweyr release because people didn't clearly and unanimously call it out as broken when it had a chance to be stopped.Youtube channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UCDQ7FrJ0AjMt2auffLEf_Pw
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