Overload Heavy Attack: the new Goliath bash spam

Waffennacht · July 2019

I think they need to remove the cyrodiil passives (taking a keep for a buff etc)

Then remove CP

Then you'll be hard pressed to make a nerfs thread over every ability. I do not trust 90% of the screen shots because I'm sure they're from a bunch of varied passive buffs not obtainable in other means

Hashtag_ · July 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

I think they need to remove the cyrodiil passives (taking a keep for a buff etc)

Then remove CP

Then you'll be hard pressed to make a nerfs thread over every ability. I do not trust 90% of the screen shots because I'm sure they're from a bunch of varied passive buffs not obtainable in other means

You do know everything that makes cp bad in your opinion is only worsened in no cp right?

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

Waffennacht wrote: »

Then you'll be hard pressed to make a nerfs thread over every ability.

It doesn't necessarily need to be nerfed. They could buff other class Ultimates to its level.

MaxJrFTW · July 2019

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

enzoisadog wrote: »

tbh thats a l2p issue, major evasion and block can literally negate all the damage. Its not like you have 60k hp, you're literally a glass cannon.

Nobody is 1vXing with Overload Heavy. Not everyone runs SnB and holds block, and Major Evasion is not reliably accessible to all specs. It's outperforming every other AoE ultimate in group PvP by a wide margin.

The videos on youtube say otherwise.

Waffennacht · July 2019

Hashtag_ wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I think they need to remove the cyrodiil passives (taking a keep for a buff etc)

Then remove CP

Then you'll be hard pressed to make a nerfs thread over every ability. I do not trust 90% of the screen shots because I'm sure they're from a bunch of varied passive buffs not obtainable in other means

You do know everything that makes cp bad in your opinion is only worsened in no cp right?

Not really. Seeing as I play BGs, no the problems aren't even remotely close.

jediodyn_ESO · July 2019

Less factors to balance make a game easier to balance but less fun to play. PvP balancing is so bad, partially because they are trying to balance 3 separate game systems with 1 set of rules. CP PvP, No CP PvP, and PvE are 3 different games.

How many more years will it take the devs to figure out that the game would be so much better if they would just pick one PvP system to go with PvE and balance them separately?

Emma_Overload · July 2019

Derra wrote: »

There was really no reason to make it uninterruptable.
Otherwise people do give up quite a bit to make it hit hard.

maelstrom lightning + elegance + any heavyattack buff set.

Even without interrupt, the sorc is just as vulnerable as if he/she were using Soul Strike (or whatever it's called), which i stopped using because it didn't kill good players and sometimes got ME killed.

pzschrek · July 2019

I think it pays to note that heavy overload is buggy AF.

You don't just take the obvious risks you run it...I'd say about 30% of the time it simply doesn't fire.

Or else it fires and stays firing, which is cool until you need to ward.

Savos_Saren · July 2019

Oooh! I like it!

I've noticed a lot more sorcs running overload lately. I don't necessarily mind it, either- since it's not a skill that can be animation cancelled (looking at you, DBoS) and has a limited range.

Xylena, you play stam characters- with the next update, you'll be able to slot Turn Evil in order to immediately Fear overloading enemies while getting minor protection and getting a weapon buff from just having it slotted...

Thraben · July 2019

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Hold left click to gain the highest melee DpS in PvP (averages 8k per tick every second), on the strongest ranged caster spec in PvP. I'm glad it was buffed after being worthless for years, but it also shouldn't be doing significantly more DpS than other AoE Magicka Ultimates like Meteor, Crescent Sweep, Soul Tether, etc. It would also be nice if one of the two very similar morphs was made into Physical damage for Stam Sorcs...

1. It doesn´t out-DPS the Ultis you mentionned: They allow other skills to be used after the activation: For example, a Magblade using the usual Eye-of-the-Storm- Sap- combo outdpses it by at least 1k/ second. Also, a Frostnado typically outdpses the HA Overload attack. Since particularly MagSorc have no melee AoE skill to follow up the Overload HA, it is very niche as long as their is no reliable way (no, Wall of Elements is not) to set the victim off-balance.

2. If you want to use it as a StamSorc, play in NoCP. Don´t expect too much from it, though: As mentionned above, there is a significant chance that the skill will be totally unresponsive in the moment you need it most.

MentalxHammer · July 2019

NBrookus wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure how I feel about the heavy overload builds. Players do give up a lot to run them.

People gave up a lot to run bash spam Goliath builds too. They were pretty useless outside Goliath form.

True. Specialized group builds are always going to be stronger than what someone can achieve with a balanced open world build. This makes magblade bombers look tame, though.

I haven't reversed engineered the build above but off the top of my head I can think of 5 sets that buff overload heavy attacks.

Build is slimecraw, elegant, spinners.

Icarus42 · July 2019

The nerf sorc crusade continues lol. Bring it we don't even care anymore..

Icarus42 · July 2019

...Actually if you look at it, Overload is wicked clunky still, and weaves with light attacks are ridiculously slow and the projectile can be dodged even if you aren't Neo from the Matrix. You get stuck in the heavy attack when cyrodiil lags which is all the time, and if you get close enough to heavy attack, and everything is perfect, you are in a channeled position leaving you vulnerable to insta death. On average unless you build for it overload lights hit for around 3-4k so 100 ultimate equates to upwards ok 12k total spread out. That's on my build at least, don't know how much my heavy goes for. These heavy builds that hit you for 20k damage must be a rarity so just note their tag and avoid them on the field would be my suggestion. Or nerf those who use elegance I guess if you need to nerf something lol!

Teeba_Shei · July 2019

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Flesh colossus? lol

225-cost stationary AoE? No comparison. I'm not seeing competitive meta groups stacking Necros the way they're stacking Mag Sorcs right now. This goes for 12-16 ball groups as well as coordinated 4-man groups like the four Mag Sorcs that @enzoisadog chased me around with the other day (myself alone was no match for their teamwork). This also has as much to do with Mag Sorc being strong overall versus Necro being mediocre overall.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Goliath was a problem because the 20k tooltip was achieved by a standart heavy armor fury 7th bloospawn. Overloadtard need to build far more and is basically a glass Canon.

Goliath builds were pretty useless outside Goliath form.

Are you really calling for nerfs because 4 people ult dumped you?

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Are you really calling for nerfs because 4 people ult dumped you?

Read the thread, I've stated multiple times that a nerf isn't necessary if other class Ultimates are brought up to the level of Overload Heavy. If Overload Heavy is fine as is, then every class should be able to equip 3 damage sets, hold left click (or spam one button), and deal 8k DPS in PvP.

Competitive coordinated groups are using Overload Heavy because it far and away outperforms the other options, much like Goliath bash did a month ago. They didn't put their Stamcros and Stamdens on the shelf for RP reasons.

GeneralSezme · July 2019

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Are you really calling for nerfs because 4 people ult dumped you?

Read the thread, I've stated multiple times that a nerf isn't necessary if other class Ultimates are brought up to the level of Overload Heavy. If Overload Heavy is fine as is, then every class should be able to equip 3 damage sets, hold left click (or spam one button), and deal 8k DPS in PvP.

Competitive coordinated groups are using Overload Heavy because it far and away outperforms the other options, much like Goliath bash did a month ago. They didn't put their Stamcros and Stamdens on the shelf for RP reasons.

Our 6 man was fighting LOM 24 man and they had 4 OL spammers and we didn't die. Can upload this fight

Lucky28 · July 2019

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

He's just another nerfomancer looking to hit all the class and specs Sept the one he is using and spreading misinformation in the process GG.

no, overload does need a nerf. if you don't agree with that than *** lets make my soul harvest cost 5 ult and colossus 50 lets just make all these ults that can hit hard spammable like overload .

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

GeneralSezme wrote: »

Our 6 man was fighting LOM 24 man and they had 4 OL spammers and we didn't die. Can upload this fight

I don't doubt your group's skill, nor do I doubt the incompetence of 24-man zerg groups. Neither of these have anything to do with Overload Heavy doing significantly more DPS than anything else in PvP. If you think Overload Heavy is fine, then let's give every class a cheap AoE Ultimate that does 8k DPS by holding left click. Heck, if Mag Sorcs are going to have the strongest melee attack in PvP, let's give melee DKs some ranged attacks equivalent to Haunting Curse and Crystal Frags. Standardization!

Ranger209 · July 2019

Had this in death recap tonight on live, doesn't seem that much different.

heng14rwb17_ESO · July 2019

GO OVERLORD OR GO CRY !

Derra · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

There was really no reason to make it uninterruptable.
Otherwise people do give up quite a bit to make it hit hard.

maelstrom lightning + elegance + any heavyattack buff set.

Even without interrupt, the sorc is just as vulnerable as if he/she were using Soul Strike (or whatever it's called), which i stopped using because it didn't kill good players and sometimes got ME killed.

It does way more dmg than soulstrike to asingle target and is aoe - not comparable in the slightest really.
We´re talking 50 to 100% more dmg than old soulstrike in the same time window.

BlackMadara · July 2019

How much ult does the heavy cost per second? I have died once to an overload heavy. It was in a group fight on open field. Was very confused to see emperor palpatine come through and then my health drop hard. After that death, I reacted more quickly to the animation and have not died to one since.

The op is most likely referencing a build with elegance set, and CP placement for heavy attacks. That player specifically built for overload.

For example. A sorc with 46k mag, 3k SD, 10k pen, and normal damage CP, would have a 15k tooltip. Against a target with 22k spell resistance and 3k crit resistance, overload would deal 6-7k damage. Elegance would bring that to 7.3-9k.

This is rather high damage but not out of line. A DK with fire destro, 35k mag, 3.8k SD, 10k pen, and normal damage CP would have a tooltip of 15.tk with la-whip weave. Against the same target, the weave would deal 6.3-8k damage.

The sorc build technically has more effective spell damage.

So, unless specifically built for, heavy overload deals similar damage to a light attack - spammable weave, but in AoE. As an ult, that seems fine.

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

BlackMadara wrote: »

So, unless specifically built for, heavy overload deals similar damage to a light attack - spammable weave, but in AoE. As an ult, that seems fine.

Yes, you have to build for it. You also had to build for Goliath bash spam.

No amount of damage stacking on a DK is going to give me something that ticks for 8k damage every second against enemy players. This is like if holding left click caused my DK to Dragon Leap repeatedly every second.

Hashtag_ · July 2019

GeneralSezme wrote: »

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Synapsis123 wrote: »

Are you really calling for nerfs because 4 people ult dumped you?

Read the thread, I've stated multiple times that a nerf isn't necessary if other class Ultimates are brought up to the level of Overload Heavy. If Overload Heavy is fine as is, then every class should be able to equip 3 damage sets, hold left click (or spam one button), and deal 8k DPS in PvP.

Competitive coordinated groups are using Overload Heavy because it far and away outperforms the other options, much like Goliath bash did a month ago. They didn't put their Stamcros and Stamdens on the shelf for RP reasons.

Our 6 man was fighting LOM 24 man and they had 4 OL spammers and we didn't die. Can upload this fight

Please upload.

jaws343 · July 2019

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

So, unless specifically built for, heavy overload deals similar damage to a light attack - spammable weave, but in AoE. As an ult, that seems fine.

Yes, you have to build for it. You also had to build for Goliath bash spam.

No amount of damage stacking on a DK is going to give me something that ticks for 8k damage every second against enemy players. This is like if holding left click caused my DK to Dragon Leap repeatedly every second.

But it isn't though, because dragon leap is giving you other benefit, like acting like a gap closer, and a shield. Overload requires the user to open themselves up in melee range on a ranged class. You keep trying to compare it to other ultimates but you keep ignoring the function of the class. Nightblades have a melee ult but they also have cloak which allows them to auto crit that ult and get into melee range undetected to nearly guarantee it lands. Sorcs with overload have to get into melee range and then hold down a channel in order to do damage. And then they have to hope that their opponent is stupid in order to actually kill them and not die first.

jaws343 · July 2019

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

BlackMadara wrote: »

So, unless specifically built for, heavy overload deals similar damage to a light attack - spammable weave, but in AoE. As an ult, that seems fine.

Yes, you have to build for it. You also had to build for Goliath bash spam.

No amount of damage stacking on a DK is going to give me something that ticks for 8k damage every second against enemy players. This is like if holding left click caused my DK to Dragon Leap repeatedly every second.

That is also not necessarily true. I am fairly certain a Silks of the Sun, Mechanical Acuity build can get 8K+ ticks per second on Eye of The Storm when built and timed correctly. I've seen 8K+ ticks on the destro ult on a magplar using acuity.

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

jaws343 wrote: »

Overload requires the user to open themselves up in melee range on a ranged class.

Why does the strongest ranged spec in PvP also have the strongest melee attack in PvP?

jaws343 wrote: »

but you keep ignoring the function of the class

And you're ignoring that Sorcs also have the best disengage tool in the game.

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

jaws343 wrote: »

That is also not necessarily true. I am fairly certain a Silks of the Sun, Mechanical Acuity build can get 8K+ ticks per second on Eye of The Storm when built and timed correctly. I've seen 8K+ ticks on the destro ult on a magplar using acuity.

I've never been hit for more than 5k on a Destro Ulti tick. I've been hit for 10k+ by Overload Heavy on the same setups.

Destro Ulti also has a 250 cost, so once you survive it, it's not happening again for a while. Sorcs can Streak in, hold left click for a few seconds of 8k DPS, Streak out, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat.

Giljabrar · July 2019

While I agree that overload heavy setups are a bit overtuned, comparing them to bash goliath (while similar) isn't quite apples to apples. For one, bashcrows get a significant steroid to their HP when using said offensive ultimate. You can blow up a overload bomber a hell of a lot faster than you can kill a bashcrow.

Overload bombers only have a place in group content, a highly specialized build (lets say elegant, VD, which seems to be the most popular). Your comparison to destro ulti has one major flaw as well, when overload bombing, youre channeling the skill (almost the whole time, minus prep skills such as maybe ele wall with maelstrom), whereas with a destro ulti you can spam other AoE abilites, leading to about the same overall AoE DPS.

As somebody who's played this setup a few times, honestly it feels pretty lackluster compared to other AoE magicka bomb setups. Limited range, very telegraphed, longer setup time, for the most part you're useless without your ultimate charged up. My reaction when I see an overload bomber is to kill it. My reaction when I see a bashcrow, is *** run as fast and as far as I can.

The fact that the channel can't be stopped now should be changed, that's pretty dumb imo.

It is overtuned currently, I wouldn't compare it to bashcrow.

PS. Xy, I luv ya, but you gotta stop getting my class nerfed lol

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

Giljabrar wrote: »

PS. Xy, I luv ya, but you gotta stop getting my class nerfed lol

I don't want Mag Sorcs nerfed. I want DK and every other class to have Ultimates as strong as Overload Heavy. I want Magden, Magblade, and Magcro to be strong caster specs on par with Mag Sorc.