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Puncturing Sweep

ccfeeling
ccfeeling
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PTS Patch Notes v5.1.0

Many Damage over Time abilities, both single target and Area of Effect, have been re-standardized to follow similar behaviors to other ability types. Area of Effect DoTs will now be 33% weaker than a single target DoT counter-part and cost 30% more, just like direct damage AoEs vs single target ones.

Fiery Breath:
Increased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 2808 from 2700.
Decreased the DoT damage per tick by approximately 15%.

Twisting Path (morph): Decreased the damage per tick of this ability by approximately 14%.

Lightning Splash: Decreased the cost of this ability and its morphs to 3024 from 3510, and decreased the damage per tick by approximately 37%.

Winter’s Revenge (morph): Decreased the damage per tick by approximately 29%.

Aedric Spear
Puncturing Strikes: Reduced the base cost of this ability and its morphs to 2700 from 2952. Biting Jabs retains the 15% cost reduction.


Why Templar has no changed ?
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    Excuse me ?

    I just wanna figure out the reason of exclusion .

    Puncturing Sweep is a channel AOE skill , all targets will be affected in the area every one second .

    I think Fiery Breath is the best example to match the patch notes , because it's AOE , it's also provide DOT , those targets still suffered by the DOT even they left the area .

    Twisting Path , Lightning Splash , Winter’s Revenge are AOE but not DOT , so target will be affected if they are still in the area .

    The big different between Puncturing Sweep and those other mentioned skills are the duration , so should it work under the new principle , I am not pretty sure .
  • ccfeeling
    ccfeeling
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    Cinbri wrote: »
    Because your comparison is wrong as Sweeps is spammable channel, while skills you listed are typical DoTs.
    Only valuable comparison is initial damage of Fiery Breath that can be used as spammable AoE and if you compare its damage or any other spammable AoEs like Impulse or Shards - you will notice that Sweeps as AoE is already perform below those standards of "Cone vs AoE", for other reasons.

    Noted with thanks ! :)
  • miteba
    miteba
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    Sorry about being sour, and my post even didn't add anything to your question…
    But nerf threads (or similar) are really getting people upset!
    ccfeeling wrote: »
    Why Templar has no changed ?
    When you end your OP with this sentence, it automatically implies that this is something about the Templar class, and not specifically the skill. Like "Why didn´t the templar were nerfed the way others were?" !!!!
    ccfeeling wrote: »
    I just wanna figure out the reason of exclusion,
    This should be that OP last sentence :p

    Anyway, Cinbri already answered, and he/she is an expert in Templar class so …
    Edited by miteba on July 22, 2019 9:16AM
  • Baconlad
    Baconlad
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    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent
  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    Baconlad wrote: »
    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent

    >. <
    What?
    Edited by GeorgeBlack on July 22, 2019 12:42PM
  • GeorgeBlack
    GeorgeBlack
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    Durham wrote: »
    Jabs on live server is severly punnished by latency. I have many friends that have stop play their stamplar due to the fact that the class defining ability does not even hit the target. Last night on several occassion standing infront of guards 3 rounds of jabs and only 2 jabs landed. I had to light attact the guard to death.

    Performance affects all abilities
    This is a nerf topic
  • master_vanargand
    master_vanargand
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    Puncturing Strikes has 70% snare & proc Burning Light.
    It is very strong, so Punturing Strikes is the best spam skill in PvP.
  • Durham
    Durham
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    Puncturing Strikes has 70% snare & proc Burning Light.
    It is very strong, so Punturing Strikes is the best spam skill in PvP.

    Yes it is a very strong ability. However in the current state of PVP latency has been off the charts. Jabs is a channeled ability that you spam its one of the most affected abilities in the game with lag. Jabs animations will go off fine but 1/4 of your jabs actually hit. Sometime none will hit its target. I run a Stamplar in PVP from 7pm to 11pm est., he is almost completely useless. After the zerg guilds log off his abilites start to work again and he is very fun to play. During off times he is good. However you also have to remember stamplars are your true berzerk style of play and most are very soft. There are only a handful of Stamplars that I would worry about in PVP. But honestly I dont see many out there. Im not sure what it is like during the off hours with offensive templars.

    For balance purposes if I was to make a change to puncturing strike I reduce that snare to 35% or a standard snare of 30%.
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVE Eternal Destiny
  • IronWooshu
    IronWooshu
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    Baconlad wrote: »
    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent

    >. <
    What?

    BECAUSE OF THE NATURE WITH HOW THE SKILL IS USED. ITS BALANCED BY SINGLE TARGET CHANNELS, BUT WITH AN AOE COMPONENT AS A "PERK" TO USING IT. THE AOE COMPONENT IS NOT THOUGHT FOR MOST PVP, AND IT'S ONLY IN PVE THAT'S THE AOE IS DECENT

    Dont scream angry little fellow.
    AoE is def not a perk.
    Tell that to NB who try to cloak away.
    My stamplar mate melts people in bgs with jabs.

    The AOE damage is half of what the single target gets.. c'mon man.... think
  • Kadoin
    Kadoin
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    Baconlad wrote: »
    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent

    ...
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    Baconlad wrote: »
    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent

    >. <
    What?

    BECAUSE OF THE NATURE WITH HOW THE SKILL IS USED. ITS BALANCED BY SINGLE TARGET CHANNELS, BUT WITH AN AOE COMPONENT AS A "PERK" TO USING IT. THE AOE COMPONENT IS NOT THOUGHT FOR MOST PVP, AND IT'S ONLY IN PVE THAT'S THE AOE IS DECENT

    Dont scream angry little fellow.
    AoE is def not a perk.
    Tell that to NB who try to cloak away.
    My stamplar mate melts people in bgs with jabs.

    The AOE damage is half of what the single target gets.. c'mon man.... think

    the closest target takes 2.57 times the damage of the targets in the aoe. way more than half.
  • Royalthought
    Royalthought
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    No horse in this race but it was more of a muddy puddle after reading these posts.

    AoE is AoE. Single target is single target.

    The idea that AoE is just a "perk." Lol
  • IronWooshu
    IronWooshu
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    Baconlad wrote: »
    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent

    >. <
    What?

    BECAUSE OF THE NATURE WITH HOW THE SKILL IS USED. ITS BALANCED BY SINGLE TARGET CHANNELS, BUT WITH AN AOE COMPONENT AS A "PERK" TO USING IT. THE AOE COMPONENT IS NOT THOUGHT FOR MOST PVP, AND IT'S ONLY IN PVE THAT'S THE AOE IS DECENT

    Dont scream angry little fellow.
    AoE is def not a perk.
    Tell that to NB who try to cloak away.
    My stamplar mate melts people in bgs with jabs.

    The AOE damage is half of what the single target gets.. c'mon man.... think

    the closest target takes 2.57 times the damage of the targets in the aoe. way more than half.

    If your spear deals 1612 to the closest enemy that means the enemies around them takes 625. Why are you arguing for me quoting me like I am wrong?

    Already this skill is under performing to their AOE standards and is weaker than Liquid Lightning etc.
    Edited by IronWooshu on July 22, 2019 2:45PM
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    Baconlad wrote: »
    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent

    >. <
    What?

    BECAUSE OF THE NATURE WITH HOW THE SKILL IS USED. ITS BALANCED BY SINGLE TARGET CHANNELS, BUT WITH AN AOE COMPONENT AS A "PERK" TO USING IT. THE AOE COMPONENT IS NOT THOUGHT FOR MOST PVP, AND IT'S ONLY IN PVE THAT'S THE AOE IS DECENT

    Dont scream angry little fellow.
    AoE is def not a perk.
    Tell that to NB who try to cloak away.
    My stamplar mate melts people in bgs with jabs.

    The AOE damage is half of what the single target gets.. c'mon man.... think

    the closest target takes 2.57 times the damage of the targets in the aoe. way more than half.

    If your spear deals 1612 to the closest enemy that means the enemies around them takes 625. Why are you arguing for me quoting me like I am wrong?

    Already this skill is under performing to their AOE standards and is weaker than Liquid Lightning etc.

    625 is not "half" of 1612, it is 39%. you are wrong. LL is not an aoe spammable, that skill is a ground based aoe dot. no idea what is make you compare them. the closest thing to sweeps is sap essence, heals and damage. but even that is not perfect, the closest target for sweeps takes double the damage of sap(if all 4 sweeps hits land) and the aoe of does 78% of the damage of sap(if all 4 sweeps land). meaning you need 4 targets for sap to start to do more average damage of sweep. 5 total targets if you count a proc of burning light to 1 or 2 of the targets.
  • IronWooshu
    IronWooshu
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    Baconlad wrote: »
    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent

    >. <
    What?

    BECAUSE OF THE NATURE WITH HOW THE SKILL IS USED. ITS BALANCED BY SINGLE TARGET CHANNELS, BUT WITH AN AOE COMPONENT AS A "PERK" TO USING IT. THE AOE COMPONENT IS NOT THOUGHT FOR MOST PVP, AND IT'S ONLY IN PVE THAT'S THE AOE IS DECENT

    Dont scream angry little fellow.
    AoE is def not a perk.
    Tell that to NB who try to cloak away.
    My stamplar mate melts people in bgs with jabs.

    The AOE damage is half of what the single target gets.. c'mon man.... think

    the closest target takes 2.57 times the damage of the targets in the aoe. way more than half.

    If your spear deals 1612 to the closest enemy that means the enemies around them takes 625. Why are you arguing for me quoting me like I am wrong?

    Already this skill is under performing to their AOE standards and is weaker than Liquid Lightning etc.

    625 is not "half" of 1612, it is 39%. you are wrong. LL is not an aoe spammable, that skill is a ground based aoe dot. no idea what is make you compare them. the closest thing to sweeps is sap essence, heals and damage. but even that is not perfect, the closest target for sweeps takes double the damage of sap(if all 4 sweeps hits land) and the aoe of does 78% of the damage of sap(if all 4 sweeps land). meaning you need 4 targets for sap to start to do more average damage of sweep. 5 total targets if you count a proc of burning light to 1 or 2 of the targets.
    You are literally going to go out of your way over what I said being half as I took an estimate to be precise at 39% while taking some high horse stand. LoL

    I literally in all your posts have no idea what you are even arguing, OP wants to nerf Sweeps because it's an AOE and not following their AOE standards.

    Are you for or against that? If you understood the entire convo instead of trying to get picky over an estimation rather then the precise number and ignore the context then so be it. I guess people need to make up for where they lack elsewhere somehow.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    Baconlad wrote: »
    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent

    >. <
    What?

    BECAUSE OF THE NATURE WITH HOW THE SKILL IS USED. ITS BALANCED BY SINGLE TARGET CHANNELS, BUT WITH AN AOE COMPONENT AS A "PERK" TO USING IT. THE AOE COMPONENT IS NOT THOUGHT FOR MOST PVP, AND IT'S ONLY IN PVE THAT'S THE AOE IS DECENT

    Dont scream angry little fellow.
    AoE is def not a perk.
    Tell that to NB who try to cloak away.
    My stamplar mate melts people in bgs with jabs.

    The AOE damage is half of what the single target gets.. c'mon man.... think

    the closest target takes 2.57 times the damage of the targets in the aoe. way more than half.

    If your spear deals 1612 to the closest enemy that means the enemies around them takes 625. Why are you arguing for me quoting me like I am wrong?

    Already this skill is under performing to their AOE standards and is weaker than Liquid Lightning etc.

    625 is not "half" of 1612, it is 39%. you are wrong. LL is not an aoe spammable, that skill is a ground based aoe dot. no idea what is make you compare them. the closest thing to sweeps is sap essence, heals and damage. but even that is not perfect, the closest target for sweeps takes double the damage of sap(if all 4 sweeps hits land) and the aoe of does 78% of the damage of sap(if all 4 sweeps land). meaning you need 4 targets for sap to start to do more average damage of sweep. 5 total targets if you count a proc of burning light to 1 or 2 of the targets.

    You are literally going to go out of your way over what I said being half as I took an estimate to be precise at 39% while taking some high horse stand. LoL

    I literally in all your posts have no idea what you are even arguing, OP wants to nerf Sweeps because it's an AOE and not following their AOE standards.

    Are you for or against that? If you understood the entire convo instead of trying to get picky over an estimation rather then the precise number and ignore the context then so be it. I guess people need to make up for where they lack elsewhere somehow.

    for or against what? the op has been shown they are wrong in their thought process and you have too.

    and you got me, i make forum posts cause my pee pee is small.
  • FlamingBeard
    FlamingBeard
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    IronWooshu wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    IronWooshu wrote: »
    Baconlad wrote: »
    Because of the nature with how the skill is used. Its balanced by single target channels, but with an AOE component as a "perk" to using it. The aoe component is not thought for most PvP, and it's only in PvE that's the AoE is decent

    >. <
    What?

    BECAUSE OF THE NATURE WITH HOW THE SKILL IS USED. ITS BALANCED BY SINGLE TARGET CHANNELS, BUT WITH AN AOE COMPONENT AS A "PERK" TO USING IT. THE AOE COMPONENT IS NOT THOUGHT FOR MOST PVP, AND IT'S ONLY IN PVE THAT'S THE AOE IS DECENT

    Dont scream angry little fellow.
    AoE is def not a perk.
    Tell that to NB who try to cloak away.
    My stamplar mate melts people in bgs with jabs.

    The AOE damage is half of what the single target gets.. c'mon man.... think

    the closest target takes 2.57 times the damage of the targets in the aoe. way more than half.

    If your spear deals 1612 to the closest enemy that means the enemies around them takes 625. Why are you arguing for me quoting me like I am wrong?

    Already this skill is under performing to their AOE standards and is weaker than Liquid Lightning etc.

    625 is not "half" of 1612, it is 39%. you are wrong. LL is not an aoe spammable, that skill is a ground based aoe dot. no idea what is make you compare them. the closest thing to sweeps is sap essence, heals and damage. but even that is not perfect, the closest target for sweeps takes double the damage of sap(if all 4 sweeps hits land) and the aoe of does 78% of the damage of sap(if all 4 sweeps land). meaning you need 4 targets for sap to start to do more average damage of sweep. 5 total targets if you count a proc of burning light to 1 or 2 of the targets.

    You are literally going to go out of your way over what I said being half as I took an estimate to be precise at 39% while taking some high horse stand. LoL

    I literally in all your posts have no idea what you are even arguing, OP wants to nerf Sweeps because it's an AOE and not following their AOE standards.

    Are you for or against that? If you understood the entire convo instead of trying to get picky over an estimation rather then the precise number and ignore the context then so be it. I guess people need to make up for where they lack elsewhere somehow.

    for or against what? the op has been shown they are wrong in their thought process and you have too.

    and you got me, i make forum posts cause my pee pee is small.

    OP is trying to get Jabs/Sweep nerfed due to its AoE damage being apparently "too good" for AoE standards but not realizing it deals low AoE damage, as most of its tooltip is focused into the closest enemy you are hitting and essentially makes Jabs/Sweeps a single-target spammable DoT which happens to have a negligible AoE DoT that actually wastes Burning Light procs on targets you aren't focusing in many instances.

    I believe the person you are replying to is simply using Liquid Lightning as an example of what strong AoE DoT looks like compared to the weak AoE DoT of Jabs/Sweep which must be channeled and is mostly used as a single-target focused damage skill in the first palce.
    Edited by FlamingBeard on July 22, 2019 6:20PM
  • Wolf_Watching
    Wolf_Watching
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    Actually based on their guidelines... it does need a nerf, high dmg w/ a two times a second burst dmg hit also with it. Decent AoE dmg with a high ST dmg that synergizes with dots and major sav or heal and also minor protection. This with the bubble. Just ew
    Wolfy3777
    Xbox
    Add me if you want!
    I’d love to help out or team up!
  • Baconlad
    Baconlad
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    Thanks @FlamingBeard for some reason my brain wasn't connecting to what I was typing. That's what I meant was the AoE was pointless in cyrodiil. You use sweeps for the single target portion. They could nerf the AoE without touching the single target and I wouldn't care.
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