Galarthor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.

That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts

I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.

That's pretty much the lie of the century.

The fact that you refuse to use cloak as a NB and use your own performance as a benchmark for OPness of a class, combined with the fact that you aggressively ask for sorc nerfs even when NBs clearly outperformed sorcs in both PvE and PvP destroys every last bit of your credibility.

If you think that NBs currently outperform sorcs in PvP then you're ignorant to the current class balance or too bias to perceive it.

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.

That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts

I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.

That's pretty much the lie of the century.

The fact that you refuse to use cloak as a NB and use your own performance as a benchmark for OPness of a class, combined with the fact that you aggressively ask for sorc nerfs even when NBs clearly outperformed sorcs in both PvE and PvP destroys every last bit of your credibility.

If you think that NBs currently outperform sorcs in PvP then you're ignorant to the current class balance or too bias to perceive it.

Both statements are way too generalized.
Sorc on live definetly outperforms medium NB for solo cyrodiil if they use one or two of the following abilities: Twilight Matriarch, Harness Magica.

However if you take those two away i´d be very inclined to give the benefit of doubt towards nb. This is exactly what i´d have done to nerf the class and then look how it performs - was done on pts.
Then they slapped some nerfs on top - no bueno. Sorc doesn´t come close to medblade on pts regarding open world capability anymore from my perspective.
Both classes lost effectivity comparing pts to live though as the pts has a sustained hot + dot meta which generally doensn´t benefit burst classes with no native dot access.

You're probably right in respect to the PTS, but I won't be confident until we see the changes go live since the changes to regeneration and healing ward are very potent, and therefore we need to have time for build experimentation to truly see the current balance. The biggest eyesore to me currently is the new Eclipse and the cast times on ultimates.

But anyways sorcs and Nightblades can whine all they want, but I'm confident neither of them will be top dog next update.

I would like to see sorc completely changed though. I would make them a lot more fun to play while reducing the cheese if it were up to me.

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.

That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts

I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.

Well they are weak currently on pts due to the nerfs they received ^^

In summerset it was undodgeable fury curse meteor cage frag. Which didn´t reliably kill tanky opponents but alas was op.
Now we have dodgeable fury curse meteor streak. The biggest hitter is no longer guaranteed to hit and the combo can be disrupted.

Idk if i´d call that op. Is breath embers meteor petrify foo whip op?

If whip could proc 2 times in 3 seconds from range, yea it would be.

Complain all you want, sorcs have to build tanky now. They still have the best toolkit for PvP and the second best mobility. These are going to be stupidly strong come next patch. DoT DoT Curse kite/ward reach curse and maybe cleanse. Hit frags on proc. Dead or turtled any class.

Derra wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.

That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts

I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.

Well they are weak currently on pts due to the nerfs they received ^^

In summerset it was undodgeable fury curse meteor cage frag. Which didn´t reliably kill tanky opponents but alas was op.
Now we have dodgeable fury curse meteor streak. The biggest hitter is no longer guaranteed to hit and the combo can be disrupted.

Idk if i´d call that op. Is breath embers meteor petrify foo whip op?

If whip could proc 2 times in 3 seconds from range, yea it would be.

Complain all you want, sorcs have to build tanky now. They still have the best toolkit for PvP and the second best mobility. These are going to be stupidly strong come next patch. DoT DoT Curse kite/ward reach curse and maybe cleanse. Hit frags on proc. Dead or turtled any class.

I´m really curious about that setup with 2 dots that sorcs are going to use - which skills are you going to drop? fury? eledrain? Spammable? Healing (of any kind really)?

Also your implication that sorc "have to build tanky now" just showcases that you´re just straight up pulling things from... somewhere - without testing on pts. Because you don´t even know what issues sorcs have on pts.

But then you also didn´t understand the original comment you quote bc the quote is about frag procc not hitting undefended in a combo. You talk about whip hitting 2x in 3 seconds - completely irrelevant as it´s obviously about an entirely different combat situation.

Spaaaaz.

You asked if that combo was OP. I gave a scenario in which it would be. Not my fault it's applicable on another class in discussion.

ST.- Entr/Pow. Surge.- Streak -RR/Mut -cleanse/fury/Boundless BB

Curse-Ward/aegis-frag-reach/clench-inner(?)/aegis/pick something

Just a reminder, you might have to actually fight, not just nuke.

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.

That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts

I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.

Well they are weak currently on pts due to the nerfs they received ^^

In summerset it was undodgeable fury curse meteor cage frag. Which didn´t reliably kill tanky opponents but alas was op.
Now we have dodgeable fury curse meteor streak. The biggest hitter is no longer guaranteed to hit and the combo can be disrupted.

Idk if i´d call that op. Is breath embers meteor petrify foo whip op?

If whip could proc 2 times in 3 seconds from range, yea it would be.

Complain all you want, sorcs have to build tanky now. They still have the best toolkit for PvP and the second best mobility. These are going to be stupidly strong come next patch. DoT DoT Curse kite/ward reach curse and maybe cleanse. Hit frags on proc. Dead or turtled any class.

I´m really curious about that setup with 2 dots that sorcs are going to use - which skills are you going to drop? fury? eledrain? Spammable? Healing (of any kind really)?

Also your implication that sorc "have to build tanky now" just showcases that you´re just straight up pulling things from... somewhere - without testing on pts. Because you don´t even know what issues sorcs have on pts.

But then you also didn´t understand the original comment you quote bc the quote is about frag procc not hitting undefended in a combo. You talk about whip hitting 2x in 3 seconds - completely irrelevant as it´s obviously about an entirely different combat situation.

Nothing you say will convince potatoes in this forum. They will still get farmed regardless of nerfs.

I think the only solution here is if ZOS completely disregards community feedback and just takes feedback from class reps.

Well thought out and articulated. Thank you for your input. It is to the benefit of everyone who read it.

jaws343 wrote: »

1) If a sorc is shield stacking constantly while under attack, they are not doing any damage. It takes 3 seconds to apply 3 shields and by the time you apply the last shield, your first two shields are gone while under pressure. And if you cannot do enough damage to a sorc to remove their shields, you aren't do enough damage to kill anyone in PVP.

2) I do not understand the mindset that some people have where they think they are entitled to catch an opponent who is fleeing from them. If a sorc is streaking away, maybe don't follow them? If any player is running away from you and you can't catch them, maybe stop following them. If you can't 1v1 the player you are foolishly chasing, maybe stop following them.

Amazing that this has to be explained in so much detail.

1) Because ANY build that can output enough damage toblast through the LOS pet wall, THEN blast through 3 levels of shields and THEN blast enough damage to a sorc's health above their healing is subject to a simple 1,2 or at most 1,2,3 combo kill from a sorc. Blow a kiss at them and that build is dead. (Not to mention from ANY other build in PVP for that matter.)

2) I do not understand the mindset that a few certain builds / classes are entitled to be "unkillable" by having the unilateral right to run away when they are losing. You don't have that right.

Seriously why do you think a sorc should have the right to be effectively immortal by running away all the time? Compare to say a Magden. What defense does a Magden have? They are not mobile so the can't run away. They can't continuously streak and run away. They can't cloak and run away. They don't have LOS shielding pets. They can't stack shields. They can't wear heavy and be top end DPS dealers over med builds like stam classes.

A magden was able delay the inevitable by a few seconds by throwing out snares and immobilizes but that was zos'd. They have no core ability to survive at all. In compensation for being the only core class build that has no innate defensive and being the PvP version of roadkill they are also by far the lowest DPS class.

Yet somehow, someway there are some people that have the mindset that one of the highest bursting damage classes (especially against builds that might put a modest dent on them) with multiple defensive tactics, stacked shields, LOS pet screens, and streak for immortality question as to why people think they should not be immortal. <sigh>

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

I mean, on live you're right. I don't recommend any further nerfs until we see how they perform after these balance changes though. I am concerned about the changes to healing ward though.

That daus is saying they shouldn´t nerf the class further pretty much means it´s absolutely rekt on pts

I want every class to be competitive. Magsorcs have been overperforming for quite some time so yes I'm for the nerfs they received, but I don't want them to be weak. I don't like streak being unblockable though. Curse, Fury, meteor, streak seems like a pretty unfair combo.

Well they are weak currently on pts due to the nerfs they received ^^

In summerset it was undodgeable fury curse meteor cage frag. Which didn´t reliably kill tanky opponents but alas was op.
Now we have dodgeable fury curse meteor streak. The biggest hitter is no longer guaranteed to hit and the combo can be disrupted.

Idk if i´d call that op. Is breath embers meteor petrify foo whip op?

If whip could proc 2 times in 3 seconds from range, yea it would be.

Complain all you want, sorcs have to build tanky now. They still have the best toolkit for PvP and the second best mobility. These are going to be stupidly strong come next patch. DoT DoT Curse kite/ward reach curse and maybe cleanse. Hit frags on proc. Dead or turtled any class.

I´m really curious about that setup with 2 dots that sorcs are going to use - which skills are you going to drop? fury? eledrain? Spammable? Healing (of any kind really)?

Also your implication that sorc "have to build tanky now" just showcases that you´re just straight up pulling things from... somewhere - without testing on pts. Because you don´t even know what issues sorcs have on pts.

But then you also didn´t understand the original comment you quote bc the quote is about frag procc not hitting undefended in a combo. You talk about whip hitting 2x in 3 seconds - completely irrelevant as it´s obviously about an entirely different combat situation.

Spaaaaz.

You asked if that combo was OP. I gave a scenario in which it would be. Not my fault it's applicable on another class in discussion.

ST.- Entr/Pow. Surge.- Streak -RR/Mut -cleanse/fury/Boundless BB

Curse-Ward/aegis-frag-reach/clench-inner(?)/aegis/pick something

Just a reminder, you might have to actually fight, not just nuke.

Thx, you just proved that you have no idea how to play a sorc.

Sounds like you might need to adapt.

Care to fight me on pts with that build?

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Spaaaaz.

You asked if that combo was OP. I gave a scenario in which it would be. Not my fault it's applicable on another class in discussion.

You do understand that the point about dk was to have two dots running + land the rest of the dmg unavoidable yeah?
The same as the sorc landing dmg of curse meteor streak unavoidable.

The dmg in the scenario you give does not match the condition which is discussed - being unavoidable.

Sorcs hiding from pets are annoying. NBs cloacking and comign back (or not) from almost death to full health and staggering you are annoying. I mostly see same cries abotu one of them, not many aroudn the other ones...

Idinuse wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Mag Sorcerer hate has grown even further because currently they have everything in thier toolkit:

1. Strong shields
2. Streak to run away and making jolk of ones fighting next to you (gratz Mag Sorc was here and you are looking downwards?)
3. Best Execute for PVP
4. Good burst damage and Heals
5. Strong Atronotch Ultimate, 1 VS 1 no comparison

I believe below can be some good solution to overcome issues, its just some idea so please avoid posting rants or aggressive comments

• Not allow shield stacking anymore or define maximum cap of shields strength or bring back the glory of legendary set Shield Breaker (make it hybrid so lets magicka use this too)
• Streak Stun to be removed or duration to be reduced to 1 second or add cooldown to next cast
• Remove delay cast from Endless Fury
• Matriatch Nerf is good but Healign Ward buff will again put same problem over and over
• Remove Stun from Atronotch Ultimate

With current Magicka Sorcerer Meta you do not need to be any experienced player but just know what skills to use at what time. Other magicka class are getting somehow indirectly nerf due to Magicka Sorcerer class!

I do not hate Magicka Sorcerer but love playing them and request for ZOS is to have adjustment for PVP gameplay only.

The Sorc hate posts are really, really getting old now.

FFS how come I get wrecked on my Mag Sorc at times in Mighty Chudan's and Armor Master with Harness Magicka up? (32K mit and 3.2K Crit mit + the ~7K Harness Shield that also inherits my mits).

L2P already damn it. You have clearly plenty of learning to do from the builds I meet in Cyro.

Also:"With current Magicka Sorcerer Meta you do not need to be any experienced player but just know what skills to use at what time. "
- Are you joking? Knowing strategic use of skills isn't skill? What sort of magic do you tell yourself you are doing with your skills? You relly think your rotation is something special don't you? SMH

Most Stam builds demand a specialized build to really counter them, how come this can't be true for countering Sorcs? Jesus the "I need trash to kill for my KDR" posts... Exactly the same thing happened to Templars and it took 3 years for the class to recover to it's current state - all due to people's whining and crying over not bothering to counter them. One post then even whined over having 300/30 KDR - of which 20 to Templars ffs.

And by saying you "really love playing [mag sorcs]" you really mean playing against them right? Don't try to make it sound like this whine post comes from a jaded Mag Sorc player.

easy, you are wearing the wrong monster set with chudan

wear the daedroth one and you are in easy mode

I find it funny how it’s always Sorcerers vs. Nightblades whereas they’re the only two classes that have been toxic in PvP since launch. No surprise they’re hating each other because they can’t decide who gets the short(er) stick.

Varaug_Gaming wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

Lord_Eomer wrote: »

Mag Sorcerer hate has grown even further because currently they have everything in thier toolkit:

1. Strong shields
2. Streak to run away and making jolk of ones fighting next to you (gratz Mag Sorc was here and you are looking downwards?)
3. Best Execute for PVP
4. Good burst damage and Heals
5. Strong Atronotch Ultimate, 1 VS 1 no comparison

I believe below can be some good solution to overcome issues, its just some idea so please avoid posting rants or aggressive comments

• Not allow shield stacking anymore or define maximum cap of shields strength or bring back the glory of legendary set Shield Breaker (make it hybrid so lets magicka use this too)
• Streak Stun to be removed or duration to be reduced to 1 second or add cooldown to next cast
• Remove delay cast from Endless Fury
• Matriatch Nerf is good but Healign Ward buff will again put same problem over and over
• Remove Stun from Atronotch Ultimate

With current Magicka Sorcerer Meta you do not need to be any experienced player but just know what skills to use at what time. Other magicka class are getting somehow indirectly nerf due to Magicka Sorcerer class!

I do not hate Magicka Sorcerer but love playing them and request for ZOS is to have adjustment for PVP gameplay only.

The Sorc hate posts are really, really getting old now.

FFS how come I get wrecked on my Mag Sorc at times in Mighty Chudan's and Armor Master with Harness Magicka up? (32K mit and 3.2K Crit mit + the ~7K Harness Shield that also inherits my mits).

L2P already damn it. You have clearly plenty of learning to do from the builds I meet in Cyro.

Also:"With current Magicka Sorcerer Meta you do not need to be any experienced player but just know what skills to use at what time. "
- Are you joking? Knowing strategic use of skills isn't skill? What sort of magic do you tell yourself you are doing with your skills? You relly think your rotation is something special don't you? SMH

Most Stam builds demand a specialized build to really counter them, how come this can't be true for countering Sorcs? Jesus the "I need trash to kill for my KDR" posts... Exactly the same thing happened to Templars and it took 3 years for the class to recover to it's current state - all due to people's whining and crying over not bothering to counter them. One post then even whined over having 300/30 KDR - of which 20 to Templars ffs.

And by saying you "really love playing [mag sorcs]" you really mean playing against them right? Don't try to make it sound like this whine post comes from a jaded Mag Sorc player.

easy, you are wearing the wrong monster set with chudan

wear the daedroth one and you are in easy mode

Only when you are 1v1. For 1vAnything Chudan is BIS.

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Lokey0024 wrote: »

Spaaaaz.

You asked if that combo was OP. I gave a scenario in which it would be. Not my fault it's applicable on another class in discussion.

You do understand that the point about dk was to have two dots running + land the rest of the dmg unavoidable yeah?
The same as the sorc landing dmg of curse meteor streak unavoidable.

The dmg in the scenario you give does not match the condition which is discussed - being unavoidable.

Just think, you can do the same now. Curse will hit, basically the entirety of an embers burn in a single hit, while 2 dots tick and a meteor. Don't forget that fury will proc if you land everything right. And you're a streak distance away chainsaw weaving a spamable/LA if they haven't melted yet. And this procs another Cfrag with a 16k tooltip. My sympathy for you plight.

You still don't get it.

You cannot make Fury + frag + Curse + meteor + Streak all hitting is a single uncounterable global cooldown.

This is not rune cage.

When you Streak, by the time you finish the animation and does a 180° rotation to land the LA + Frag the ennemi already CC break and is ready to counter + heal back.

You will touch 100% with meteor streak and curse. If the ennemy is below 20%, then fury will proc. But you cannot secure the frag.

Thought you could ani-cancel a proced frag into streak. Was able before they nerfed streak. Might be different now

No. But that would be great if you could. You might be able to Streak after tossing a CAST Frag, which would be really fun to pull off

I was toying with the idea of playing a sorc build with just one shield (hardward) before patch notes came out, looks like that idea is pretty dead now. Its the shieldstacking thats the problem, but these shieldnerfs are just empowering stacking more instead of using just one shield. Sad.