Starlock wrote: »

Not being a competitive gamer, the answer is no, not really. My mastery is expressed through creativity and there is nothing the developers can to do take that away from me. I don't care about chasing numbers. If you stop caring about chasing numbers, you can just play the game and not snap a neuron every time patch notes drop.

Amen to that 😎

I agree entirely - I re-rolled my nightblade into a warden when they came out, did all content again and caught up and then some.
But i'm so depressed with how unfinished the warden is. i've recently gone back to my NB and now i feel like ive wasted the last 2 years.
There are ways ZO$ could fix this, by making achievements account wide for example.
But idk, its getting harder to play this game competitively, especially for myself as i like to solo pvp and the performance is dire.

If you play this game long enough you learn to just say *** it. Certainly there are good points to be made about upcoming or overlooked changes, but tbh every patch people lose it over the game ending (I’ve done it enough) and every patch it’s fine just different. It’s just the way it is and will be until the servers shut down.

Gulnagel wrote: »

Anyone share my frustration in this?

Personally, I've always been a 'jack of all trades/master of none' type (which gives me massive issues in games that utterly require min-maxing & specializing, like D&D Online; or the late game of any ARPG), and an alt-a-holic.

I'm also not competitive - no matter what class I play, I know I'll never be topping charts or having "good" DPS with them.



(I've also played MMOs long enough to know that no class/role/build will EVER survive forever. If you just play one class & want to always be on top... you'll never get that in an MMO. You might last a couple years through a few patches, but you won't always. Eventually, something will be nerfed.)

Starlock wrote: »

Not being a competitive gamer, the answer is no, not really. My mastery is expressed through creativity and there is nothing the developers can to do take that away from me. I don't care about chasing numbers. If you stop caring about chasing numbers, you can just play the game and not snap a neuron every time patch notes drop.

You also can't do the most difficult content.

Or the mediocre content.

If you like doing normal dungeons all the time? great.

Gulnagel wrote: »

I'm the kind of person that prefer to rather be master at one thing than good at many.

This applies in gaming aswell. Hence my disappointment 2 years ago when I returned to the game after a long break and

started a Warden to be main. I mostly PvE so that's one of the biggest mistakes in gaming I've done, clinging on to the hope of warden magica dps.

I just can't play a class I know isn't the best at anything.

So I started a sorcerer and leveld everything again, researching traits and what not.
Most magica DPS classes have been close, except for warden.
But now the nerfhammer hits sorcerer PvE hard. The homogenization is real.

And I've just lost interest in logging in, I don't want 15 characters, I want 1 good, stable character. Not being in fear of always getting nerfed.

So I thought "well I've always liked tanking in other mmo, so maybe I should roll a DK and always have my no 1 spot".

But then it hit me, passives are getting a rework the patch after this. So everything can change. Again.

I've lost hope since my warden still is bottom tier. That's why I have no real fait in anything being fixed soon.

PUG will be harder with the changes to dps, it's not the 80k dps players that suffers it's the middleman who struggle to reach 30-40k. Or the ones that hit low will hit lower, it's a loss you feel more from 25k down to 15k, compared to 80k down to +70k.

I'm just unhappy with the way this game is being cared for.

I just want 1 character that I can do achievements with and all. And not fearing that my DD(if that's what I choose to play) will turn into a healer 1 year from now because it gets gutted or that homogenization becomes worse, so every class runs around with skills outside of their class skills, because they are better. A little likr it is becoming now.

Anyone share my frustration in this?

I feel you. I saw where Magden were headed during the Morrowind PTS and early access. Dropped it and rolled a Mag Sorc (ironically) that is now being shelved. Going all Stamina™ now. The face rolling, easy mode lit will never have their play style broken so might as well give up and give in. (Oh I've played Stam classes, don't worry about posting your self praise about how extremely fantastically special your game play has to be to be good on Stamina builds, my cat pwns with my Stamblade just walking over my keyboard).

I'm surprised that so many if you seem to share my experiences or at least some of them. Seeing that so many of you also have those thoughts about the game.

I think I expected more "git gud" comments.

It is why I support class change. ZOS goes wild with balancing and just completely trashes some play styles. I'm fine with things being buffed / nerfed a little but when they just completely change things like how shield strength is calculated or getting rid of Sorcs overload bar, taking blinding flashes away from Templars, stacking cost for streak, clipping DK wings almost completely... It would be nice to change classes to something more enjoyable when your play style has been gutted. Or when ZOS adds a new class and gives them better versions of your skills Warden Shield > DK wings or strip everyone else to make that class special (Major Mending)

It can get frustrating. I guess it's just the nature of an MMO though.

mobicera wrote: »

Quite a lot of people share the same sentiment.
Quite a lot of people are getting frustrated.
Quite a lot of people will leave.
Though I do have 14 characters that I can swap to the constant nerfs to the average player base is simply getting tiring.
The nerfs will barely effect the top tier raiders, the nerfs will barely effect the casual role players and story goers, the nerfs will devistate the average gamer.
It's disheartening to be honest.

Agree wirh everything except us casual peeps. We're getting gutted too, and just as hard. My petsorc's entire skill bar is getting nuked to the ground. I've played with other skills on her and have leveled most of them. I don't use them because I don't enjoy them.

I don't min-max, but I do find my "flow" with various classes and stick with it because that's how they feel right to me. If I'm stuuck with swapping to something else, it's not going to be enjoyable.

jainiadral wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

Quite a lot of people share the same sentiment.
Quite a lot of people are getting frustrated.
Quite a lot of people will leave.
Though I do have 14 characters that I can swap to the constant nerfs to the average player base is simply getting tiring.
The nerfs will barely effect the top tier raiders, the nerfs will barely effect the casual role players and story goers, the nerfs will devistate the average gamer.
It's disheartening to be honest.

Agree wirh everything except us casual peeps. We're getting gutted too, and just as hard. My petsorc's entire skill bar is getting nuked to the ground. I've played with other skills on her and have leveled most of them. I don't use them because I don't enjoy them.

I don't min-max, but I do find my "flow" with various classes and stick with it because that's how they feel right to me. If I'm stuuck with swapping to something else, it's not going to be enjoyable.

Within the context of what that person said (story goers) I think that's probably fairly accurate. "Casual gamer" is a loose term at best and covers a large span of players, but those sticking to the stories will likely feel it the least. Overland.

The problem with terms like that, or "competitive gamer" is that they're so loose that a 65 year old grandmother who wants to complete Scale Caller Peak, or a trial with her friends, is a "competitive gamer" because she doesn't want to feel like she's dragging the group down and their interest lie outside of character creativity even if only for a brief period of time. People that play through various aspects of the game at various levels of difficulty may feel it.

Yes, it can be frustrating. Sometimes I feel like if ZOS wanted to change a light bulb that there would be a bulldozer involved, however, I think that math is somewhat flawed. The 10k DPS a person with an 80k parse may lose won't necessarily translate to a 25k player. Look at some of the areas where the nerfs hit, AOEs for example. An 80k parse will likely have higher numbers from each respective ability used compared to a 25k parse. It will more than likely be a percentage and the value lower.

kylewwefan wrote: »

A long while ago. Like at one Tamriel release. 30k DPS was really freaking good.

Dude, it still is. Forum goers seem to think everyone is hitting that at a minimum. They are not. There’s no freaking way.

Nothing in the game changed and got so much harder after that you can’t do anything with 30k DPS.

The vast majority of players won’t ever reach that even.

Floors were raised. Not so the light attack spammer all a sudden does 60k, but they can hit freaking 10k in un optimized builds with jacked up rotation button smash. (Because we’ve all seen some hitting 7k, throwing every skill they can muster)

These people are not going to be hurt or likely even notice any changes at all even.

And 30k DPS...is not even close to casual imo. So far beyond. You have to have a decent build and rotation and quite a bit of game knowledge even still, to get there.


Nightblade was not always number one DPS. They were terribad at first.

All true.

jainiadral wrote: »

mobicera wrote: »

Quite a lot of people share the same sentiment.
Quite a lot of people are getting frustrated.
Quite a lot of people will leave.
Though I do have 14 characters that I can swap to the constant nerfs to the average player base is simply getting tiring.
The nerfs will barely effect the top tier raiders, the nerfs will barely effect the casual role players and story goers, the nerfs will devistate the average gamer.
It's disheartening to be honest.

Agree wirh everything except us casual peeps. We're getting gutted too, and just as hard. My petsorc's entire skill bar is getting nuked to the ground. I've played with other skills on her and have leveled most of them. I don't use them because I don't enjoy them.

I don't min-max, but I do find my "flow" with various classes and stick with it because that's how they feel right to me. If I'm stuuck with swapping to something else, it's not going to be enjoyable.

I agree with the OP and also these two comments.

The issue is not just nerfs. Fine, make something slightly more expensive or slightly less powerful for "balance." But entire play styles being gutted in the name of balance or to make things feel fresh is a mistake, because these changes frustrate a percentage of loyal gamers who kept coming back because they enjoyed that particular thing.

These changes to me are starting to feel like a dripping faucet of irritation. First, you don't really notice. Then you start thinking "gee, I wish this would stop." Then you call your landlord. And, all of a sudden, you hate your apartment and up and move because it's annoying just to cross the threshold when you go home.

One other thing I've realized is that ZOS did a really good job of encouraging us to participate in all areas of the game. PvE and PvP! Participate in events! Try different factions! Play with your friends! Try different classes! Level alts! Many of us have. What that means is that there are players out there who are actually top tier AND casual AND average gamers. I'm close. I have one "main" that I try to keep as best in class (like the OP). I want her to have all the achievements, explore all the content, and be able to participate in difficult raids. Then I have a bunch of alts that range from casual to average to almost best in class. I don't have time to maintain all of them. But sometimes I just want to dust off my stamsorc or magblade or whatever and have fun, with the abilities and gear that I acquired, and it is frustrating if ALL of my alts have drastically different abilities, skill points refunded, and nothing works the way it did last time I had fun with them.

It's too many changes at once. I think most folks are still coming to terms with the racial changes from the last round.

Most of us can adapt. Most people can "git gud." What is not being heard is that sometimes we are here **gasp** for FUN, and fun means different things to different people. If you have a successful game with an active community... changing it too much can ruin what attracted everyone to begin with, no?