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Scratter Shot Range Nerf Ruins Bow Gameplay... Again...
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Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭Bigger issue is that Magnum Shot is garbage, 20% damage is not worth losing the heal.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »Bigger issue is that Magnum Shot is garbage, 20% damage is not worth losing the heal.
Even more funny is that this is the 'damage morph' of scattershot yet it will deal less damage than current Live patch where it had also clunky utility of self knock back. This morph got demolished.2 -
Kartalin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
“I’m solo, except for the times when I’m not”SmackNCheese wrote: »Is the purpose of a bow to run in a large group and to spam perhaps the worst coded stun in the entire game on solo or smallscale players so that they get killed when they can't do anything? If so, the buff to scattershot ranged worked entirely as intended.
Until they fix or change the scattershot stun the skill should have 8-12m range and be rarely used because of how jarring it is.
bow users are solo.
atleast i am, unless with my 2 friends.
Stellar bow-main logic.-
Tri-faction tryhard but mainly EP in Gray Host lately (PC/NA)
- DISCARNATE - Tertiary Meat - @ Kartalin - Youtube
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Aedrion✭✭✭✭✭Scatter shot on live does moderate damage, knockback, CC and a heal all at max range for low cost.
It's an all-in-one skill that does too much for its cost. CC shouldn't be spammable from max range. It should be used when an enemy comes too near. Then you knock them back, stun them and heal whatever damage they've done. Utility, as the skill's design intended.
Asking for it to remain the - I'm sorry but it is - cheap CC spam skill that it is currently, is ignoring all logic.2 -
Lord_Sando✭✭✭Scatter shot on live does moderate damage, knockback, CC and a heal all at max range for low cost.
It's an all-in-one skill that does too much for its cost. CC shouldn't be spammable from max range. It should be used when an enemy comes too near. Then you knock them back, stun them and heal whatever damage they've done. Utility, as the skill's design intended.
Asking for it to remain the - I'm sorry but it is - cheap CC spam skill that it is currently, is ignoring all logic.
I agree 100%
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universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭These changes are trash, you can't kill anyone in pvp without being able to stun, and if I get within 20 meters, melee just gonna spam critical rush on me and kill me. My only DPS ability for bow has a cast time (snipe), and does mediocre damage which is why it's best used from a distance. Sounds like the ones complaining about scatter shot don't use a gap closer, which is a ltp issue. The ability is the only stun for a ranged stamina necromancer or warden build, and by nerfing the range, they'll be useless in any PvP area. I really hope this does not go to live, so stupid to revert quality of life updates.
You are more likely to land snipe than anyone spaming dizzy swing, both are cast time and do farmirly around same dmg, except one you don't see it coming because it's 100m away and the other is just right in front of you.0 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Tbh, bow users are some of the truly squishy builds out there. Ive never seen a complaint about the "tanky bow build meta." lol
All ranged damage dealers are a pain when theyre with a group. It confuses me when I see it pointed out for bow users as if its different. I wont say which but there are some range damage builds that can also tank and escape. Bow users die fast when focused.
The only issue Ive ever had with the bow is the desync. Fix that and im good. No idea why theres a movement to prevent it from being a primary weapon.
Is someone struggling against bow builds?5 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭might be better that the cc is 22m. The target won't be knocked out of ballista range and using arrow spray or skills like sub assault would be less clunky/more useful. Still prefer to fight within 20ish meters on my bow builds anyway, less chances of crushing weapon expiring before the la hits the target plus snipe is supposed to be the bread and butter for dps but is a channel that is interuptable is clunky when you have to cancel it due to avoiding a cc or trying to reposition and snares you which means it is never going on my bars in pvp. At least channeled acceleration gives you minor force for 36 seconds and major expediton for 12 which means I dont have to cast it as often so it has some merit to being on my bar.0 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭I'm curious. If anyone has tested the virulent shot (blackrose prison bow) What is the range required to max out its duration?
I'm wondering if the range nerf had an impact on that weapon.0 -
PapaWeeb✭✭✭✭I recently made a bow build, not exactly a "gank build" but has moderate health and resists. Mostly relies on speed and cloak to survive.
I won't enjoy the range nerf, as annoying as bow zerglings are. If my target's within scatter shot range then I'll be in gap-close/sprint range. After breaking the stun, most builds can close the distance before the next one, and it'll be even easier after the nerf. And if your opponent is a competent player with some kind of detect/AoE that's usually a death sentence.
Using the skill defensively at 22m wouldn't be so bad, because the enemy is probably closing on you anyway... but I rely on it for closing kills too. Snipe is too slow, too telegraphed. Most of my kills come from a snipe or relentless focus into a snappy scatter shot cancel. Snipe being one distance, poison injection slightly less and the stun even less than that won't be fun to play with as a ranged build. Maybe ZOS could reduce the knockback or stun time, to deal make the buggy CC less tiresome...
Everyone loves to complain about snipers, it's no fun being shot at from atop a wall while you're fighting outnumbered on the ground, but when has there ever been a sniper meta? When have you seen bow builds winning dueling tournaments? Who would you rather run into; some pewpew khajiit with 18k resists and 20k health or a roided up corrosive stamDK with 5k WD and 100% penetration?
The problem at the moment is insane healing and heavy armour, and people running bow builds are the easiest to kill in Cyrodiil. So please leave that reliable stun as it is.PC EU8 -
Elusiin✭✭✭✭✭I recently made a bow build, not exactly a "gank build" but has moderate health and resists. Mostly relies on speed and cloak to survive.
I won't enjoy the range nerf, as annoying as bow zerglings are. If my target's within scatter shot range then I'll be in gap-close/sprint range. After breaking the stun, most builds can close the distance before the next one, and it'll be even easier after the nerf. And if your opponent is a competent player with some kind of detect/AoE that's usually a death sentence.
Using the skill defensively at 22m wouldn't be so bad, because the enemy is probably closing on you anyway... but I rely on it for closing kills too. Snipe is too slow, too telegraphed. Most of my kills come from a snipe or relentless focus into a snappy scatter shot cancel. Snipe being one distance, poison injection slightly less and the stun even less than that won't be fun to play with as a ranged build. Maybe ZOS could reduce the knockback or stun time, to deal make the buggy CC less tiresome...
Everyone loves to complain about snipers, it's no fun being shot at from atop a wall while you're fighting outnumbered on the ground, but when has there ever been a sniper meta? When have you seen bow builds winning dueling tournaments? Who would you rather run into; some pewpew khajiit with 18k resists and 20k health or a roided up corrosive stamDK with 5k WD and 100% penetration?
The problem at the moment is insane healing and heavy armour, and people running bow builds are the easiest to kill in Cyrodiil. So please leave that reliable stun as it is.
This! All of this!2 -
Hashtag_✭✭✭✭✭Hilarious to see people wanting a skill that is designed to be defensive in nature be used offensive.7
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SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Royalthought wrote: »I'm curious. If anyone has tested the virulent shot (blackrose prison bow) What is the range required to max out its duration?
I'm wondering if the range nerf had an impact on that weapon.
21m. This change affects the bow great deal in many ways.4 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hilarious to see people wanting a skill that is designed to be defensive in nature be used offensive.
Skills change all the time, sometimes completely. Look at jesus beam, blade cloak, etc and now hidden blade is being changed. Scattershot is now stamina's ranged cc and should be treated as such. That being said, the range reduction at 22 m and the cost increase is fine, especially when you take clench into account2 -
msalvia✭✭✭✭Moar bow nerfs! I don't ever get ganked with reach in Imperial City, it's always the coward NB with cloak and snipe which waits for me to almost kill the boss then snipes me. Play like a punk, get nerfs. I have no problems with this logic.0 -
sly007✭✭✭✭The whole purpose of playing bow is to play from range, you're weak in melee scenarios, and to reduce the distance as which you can use your bow stun is a significant nerf. In battlegrounds you'll be a free kill to any enemy player with a gap closer. I hope they revert this change. People only used bow for the execute before the range on scatter shot was buffed, and now we can finally use it as our main weapon. I do not understand why this was changed. You play bow to play from distance, not to combat people with a greatsword in melee combat.
I remember when scatter and morphs were 12 meters or something like that. I think the range of 28 meters was an over buff and allowed for easy CC on cooldown, similar to flame and shock clench. I'm glad both these skills were nerfed in range. Now if you want to CC another player with these abilities, you will have to be in gap closer range.3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The whole purpose of playing bow is to play from range, you're weak in melee scenarios, and to reduce the distance as which you can use your bow stun is a significant nerf. In battlegrounds you'll be a free kill to any enemy player with a gap closer. I hope they revert this change. People only used bow for the execute before the range on scatter shot was buffed, and now we can finally use it as our main weapon. I do not understand why this was changed. You play bow to play from distance, not to combat people with a greatsword in melee combat.
I remember when scatter and morphs were 12 meters or something like that. I think the range of 28 meters was an over buff and allowed for easy CC on cooldown, similar to flame and shock clench. I'm glad both these skills were nerfed in range. Now if you want to CC another player with these abilities, you will have to be in gap closer range.
Totally agree with this sentiment. Max range CC should not exist.
Spamming CCs from max level range was absolutely toxic gameplay, in both cases (Destro Staff / Bow). CCs should be used tactically when it’s necessary and not as spammables “just because you can“. This will enforce better planning and result in an overall less infuriating experience in PvP when it comes to crowd control.Edited by Seraphayel on July 17, 2019 9:55PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -4 -
Ezorus✭✭✭This development team don't know what the hell is up. Buffed scatter range not long ago to make it useable, now nerf it. Spit on snipe Major defile to minor and took 25% damage away now buff it by 9% so its still down 16%. but now nerfing it 5% with the FDB change. Not that they will listen to any feedback. May as well cancel ESO+3 -
TriangularChicken✭✭✭✭The whole purpose of playing bow is to play from range, you're weak in melee scenarios, and to reduce the distance as which you can use your bow stun is a significant nerf. In battlegrounds you'll be a free kill to any enemy player with a gap closer. I hope they revert this change. People only used bow for the execute before the range on scatter shot was buffed, and now we can finally use it as our main weapon. I do not understand why this was changed. You play bow to play from distance, not to combat people with a greatsword in melee combat.
I remember when scatter and morphs were 12 meters or something like that. I think the range of 28 meters was an over buff and allowed for easy CC on cooldown, similar to flame and shock clench. I'm glad both these skills were nerfed in range. Now if you want to CC another player with these abilities, you will have to be in gap closer range.
Agree, this is exactly how balance should look like, you can CC and deal damage from range, but you should also be in range of a gap closer.
Also funny fact: since they fixed the broken scatter shot stun the amount of people abusing this potato skill drastically decreased.4 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TriangularChicken wrote: »The whole purpose of playing bow is to play from range, you're weak in melee scenarios, and to reduce the distance as which you can use your bow stun is a significant nerf. In battlegrounds you'll be a free kill to any enemy player with a gap closer. I hope they revert this change. People only used bow for the execute before the range on scatter shot was buffed, and now we can finally use it as our main weapon. I do not understand why this was changed. You play bow to play from distance, not to combat people with a greatsword in melee combat.
I remember when scatter and morphs were 12 meters or something like that. I think the range of 28 meters was an over buff and allowed for easy CC on cooldown, similar to flame and shock clench. I'm glad both these skills were nerfed in range. Now if you want to CC another player with these abilities, you will have to be in gap closer range.
Agree, this is exactly how balance should look like, you can CC and deal damage from range, but you should also be in range of a gap closer.
Also funny fact: since they fixed the broken scatter shot stun the amount of people abusing this potato skill drastically decreased.
Saying that the system is balanced when bow builds have pretty much no place outside of pew-pewing from keep wall/from behind the zerg is a bit unfair.
If melee builds have spammable gap closers bow should have spammable gap openers. Something like a 5-7 meter skill which roots the target and teleports you back 22 meters (gap closer range) or stuns the target and knocks them 22 meters back. This way bow has equal opportunities at creating gaps as melee has at closing gaps.2 -
Hashtag_✭✭✭✭✭TriangularChicken wrote: »The whole purpose of playing bow is to play from range, you're weak in melee scenarios, and to reduce the distance as which you can use your bow stun is a significant nerf. In battlegrounds you'll be a free kill to any enemy player with a gap closer. I hope they revert this change. People only used bow for the execute before the range on scatter shot was buffed, and now we can finally use it as our main weapon. I do not understand why this was changed. You play bow to play from distance, not to combat people with a greatsword in melee combat.
I remember when scatter and morphs were 12 meters or something like that. I think the range of 28 meters was an over buff and allowed for easy CC on cooldown, similar to flame and shock clench. I'm glad both these skills were nerfed in range. Now if you want to CC another player with these abilities, you will have to be in gap closer range.
Agree, this is exactly how balance should look like, you can CC and deal damage from range, but you should also be in range of a gap closer.
Also funny fact: since they fixed the broken scatter shot stun the amount of people abusing this potato skill drastically decreased.
Saying that the system is balanced when bow builds have pretty much no place outside of pew-pewing from keep wall/from behind the zerg is a bit unfair.
If melee builds have spammable gap closers bow should have spammable gap openers. Something like a 5-7 meter skill which roots the target and teleports you back 22 meters (gap closer range) or stuns the target and knocks them 22 meters back. This way bow has equal opportunities at creating gaps as melee has at closing gaps.
Nobody in this game that is at least a little bit competitive stays on one bar. If you incorporate more than a bow bar to your build you can be competitive. Theedarkshady on twitch shows a good close range playstyle for a bow build. People who want draining shot at max range aren’t trying to be competitive.
The new magnum shot makes it a more offensive CC and draining shot more defensive CC from reading the PTS notesEdited by Hashtag_ on July 18, 2019 12:52PM4 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TriangularChicken wrote: »The whole purpose of playing bow is to play from range, you're weak in melee scenarios, and to reduce the distance as which you can use your bow stun is a significant nerf. In battlegrounds you'll be a free kill to any enemy player with a gap closer. I hope they revert this change. People only used bow for the execute before the range on scatter shot was buffed, and now we can finally use it as our main weapon. I do not understand why this was changed. You play bow to play from distance, not to combat people with a greatsword in melee combat.
I remember when scatter and morphs were 12 meters or something like that. I think the range of 28 meters was an over buff and allowed for easy CC on cooldown, similar to flame and shock clench. I'm glad both these skills were nerfed in range. Now if you want to CC another player with these abilities, you will have to be in gap closer range.
Agree, this is exactly how balance should look like, you can CC and deal damage from range, but you should also be in range of a gap closer.
Also funny fact: since they fixed the broken scatter shot stun the amount of people abusing this potato skill drastically decreased.
Saying that the system is balanced when bow builds have pretty much no place outside of pew-pewing from keep wall/from behind the zerg is a bit unfair.
If melee builds have spammable gap closers bow should have spammable gap openers. Something like a 5-7 meter skill which roots the target and teleports you back 22 meters (gap closer range) or stuns the target and knocks them 22 meters back. This way bow has equal opportunities at creating gaps as melee has at closing gaps.
Nobody in this game that is at least a little bit competitive stays on one bar. If you incorporate more than a bow bar to your build you can be competitive. Theedarkshady on twitch shows a good close range playstyle for a bow build. People who want draining shot at max range aren’t trying to be competitive.
Of course not but using bow frontbar you are intentionally gimping yourself. In melee range with a bow you have lower damage, inactive passives and generally weaker skills. Might as well have a 2H or DW at this point but then you are not using a bow you know.
And I'm not saying that draining shot should have max range. In case you didn't notice I've even stated that the gap opener should have 5 meters range. But either it has to be embraced that bow is not capable of truly staying at range and long shots has to be reworked into a useful passive or bows should have parity in their gap opening capabilities and better roots for kiting.1 -
Royalthought✭✭✭✭✭Royalthought wrote: »I'm curious. If anyone has tested the virulent shot (blackrose prison bow) What is the range required to max out its duration?
I'm wondering if the range nerf had an impact on that weapon.
21m. This change affects the bow great deal in many ways.
Out of curiosity, with the change, is it still possible to reach the maximum duration?0 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭all bows buff from range are at 100% at 20m range whiwh is Arrow spray's max range.
same goes for range based buff like critical rush and aurora javelin.
you'll gladely note that Piercing javelin keeps its 28m range. isnt it also a long range dmging cc?
inconsistencies once you catch us...1 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I use Bow to drop healers and help kill tanks with non stop debuffs I run solo it’s just better that way. What people here are not taking into account is that when goes live those bow builds will go away they will change from single target back to Acid Spray and Bombard spam.
It’s really sad how weak the range is on bows cause it’s literally made to kill from a distance.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
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Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void2 -
chris211✭✭✭✭The whole purpose of playing bow is to play from range, you're weak in melee scenarios, and to reduce the distance as which you can use your bow stun is a significant nerf. In battlegrounds you'll be a free kill to any enemy player with a gap closer. I hope they revert this change. People only used bow for the execute before the range on scatter shot was buffed, and now we can finally use it as our main weapon. I do not understand why this was changed. You play bow to play from distance, not to combat people with a greatsword in melee combat.
snipe should be removed from the game and replaced with a skill that takes thought to use same with scatter shot2 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Royalthought wrote: »Royalthought wrote: »I'm curious. If anyone has tested the virulent shot (blackrose prison bow) What is the range required to max out its duration?
I'm wondering if the range nerf had an impact on that weapon.
21m. This change affects the bow great deal in many ways.
Out of curiosity, with the change, is it still possible to reach the maximum duration?
From my not so indepth testing, its possible to reach maximum duration if target is 21-22 metres away1