Scratter Shot Range Nerf Ruins Bow Gameplay... Again...

Elusiin

The whole purpose of playing bow is to play from range, you're weak in melee scenarios, and to reduce the distance as which you can use your bow stun is a significant nerf. In battlegrounds you'll be a free kill to any enemy player with a gap closer. I hope they revert this change. People only used bow for the execute before the range on scatter shot was buffed, and now we can finally use it as our main weapon. I do not understand why this was changed. You play bow to play from distance, not to combat people with a greatsword in melee combat.

Elusiin

Destructive reach is a UTILITY SKILL, why does it keep the 28 meter range! This is so unreasonable!

"Destructive Reach (morph): This morph increases the range to 28 meters and reduces the cost to 2430 at Rank IV."

At least change one of Scatter Shots morphs to give us the 28 meter range!! It's a bow, BOWS ARE A RANGED WEAPON...

Gilvoth

all truth Elusiin, i main bow and i play ranged so i dont die.
zenimax, please dont take away skills that keep us at a distance.

Morgul667

True

But snipe should not be buffed

Gilvoth

Morgul667 wrote: »

True

But snipe should not be buffed

it should never have been nerfed, it does need buffed alot more than what they did, but its a start and a step in the right direction.

Elusiin

Morgul667 wrote: »

True

But snipe should not be buffed

Agreed, snipe was doing fine and didn't need that buff. But forcing bows back into a weird mix of ability ranges is so frustrating and will kill my preferred gameplay style again. I'll have to go back to stave magicka builds. -_-

Undefwun

Elusiin wrote: »

Destructive reach is a UTILITY SKILL, why does it keep the 28 meter range! This is so unreasonable!

"Destructive Reach (morph): This morph increases the range to 28 meters and reduces the cost to 2430 at Rank IV."

At least change one of Scatter Shots morphs to give us the 28 meter range!! It's a bow, BOWS ARE A RANGED WEAPON...

Reach is now a dot.. Clench at 17m (or is it 15m) has the knockback..

I play my bow bow blade at medium range (19-20m)... Asylum gank style. I hate those from 40m 1 button snipe spammer flops as much if not more than everyone else. Always 3rd partying a fight they are not even in. They are the reason I made a bow bow blade in the first place and are my favorite ppl to gank in Cyro.

Draining Shot is a utility skill... just knocks ppl back so I can escape or set up another Asylum combo and now it does an even better job of that. Well that and to yeet ppl off things and into lava....

If you gonna be dramatic at least get the facts right...

EDIT: form the natch potes

• Destructive Touch: Redesigned this ability and its morphs to function as a DoT, rather than a utility skill.
• This ability no longer grants additional bonuses depending on the staff you are using.
• Reduced the range to 15 meters from 17 meters.

so, no knock back, no immobilize and you have a 7m advantage over clench...

Elusiin

Undefwun wrote: »

Elusiin wrote: »

Destructive reach is a UTILITY SKILL, why does it keep the 28 meter range! This is so unreasonable!

"Destructive Reach (morph): This morph increases the range to 28 meters and reduces the cost to 2430 at Rank IV."

At least change one of Scatter Shots morphs to give us the 28 meter range!! It's a bow, BOWS ARE A RANGED WEAPON...

Reach is now a dot.. Clench at 17m (or is it 15m) has the knockback..

I play my bow bow blade at medium range (19-20m)... Asylum gank style. I hate those from 40m 1 button snipe spammer flops as much if not more than everyone else. Always 3rd partying a fight they are not even in. They are the reason I made a bow bow blade in the first place and are my favorite ppl to gank in Cyro.

Draining Shot is a utility skill to me... just knocks ppl back so I can escape or set up another Asylum combo and now it does an even better job of that. Well that and to yeet ppl off things and into lava....

EDIT: form the natch potes

• Destructive Touch: Redesigned this ability and its morphs to function as a DoT, rather than a utility skill.
• This ability no longer grants additional bonuses depending on the staff you are using.
• Reduced the range to 15 meters from 17 meters.

so no knock back no immobilize

That's not the full notes:

Destructive Reach (morph): This morph retains the unique functionality for each elemental staff type you choose, but no longer deals damage over time. Flame Clench knocks the target back and stuns them for the duration; Frost Clench Immobilizes the target. Shock converts the attack into an AoE explosion, and deals our AoE damage standard.
Destructive Reach (morph): This morph increases the range to 28 meters and reduces the cost to 2430 at Rank IV.

Still has CC and still has that range, but loses damage over time.

familylwl

You are a hero you because you still main bow ，I gave up bow build since 5.08.when increasing sniper damage 50% I will come back to play bow。

Undefwun

Elusiin wrote: »

That's not the full notes:

Destructive Reach (morph): This morph retains the unique functionality for each elemental staff type you choose, but no longer deals damage over time. Flame Clench knocks the target back and stuns them for the duration; Frost Clench Immobilizes the target. Shock converts the attack into an AoE explosion, and deals our AoE damage standard.
Destructive Reach (morph): This morph increases the range to 28 meters and reduces the cost to 2430 at Rank IV.

Still has CC and still has that range, but loses damage over time.

Clearly the first 'Destructive Reach" is a typo, as it says clench repeatedly... in the actual paragraph as it talks about each type of destro staff...

There is a bunch of typos in the notes...

So you clearly misunderstood or just looking to create false hype to get a perfectly harmless change reversed...

Elusiin

familylwl wrote: »

You are a hero you because you still main bow ，I gave up bow build since 5.08.when increasing sniper damage 50% I will come back to play bow。

It's still viable, but difficult, as of the current live patch, but the moment they nerf scatter shots range, it'll be stupid annoying to play and I'll just give up. I understand what they're trying to do with standardizing everything, but they also need to take into consideration the purpose/role behind the ability and the weapon it's attached to (in this case it's a bow ability meant to be used at range, so even if it's "utility", to nerf its range makes it useless for a bow user).

SmackNCheese

Is the purpose of a bow to run in a large group and to spam perhaps the worst coded stun in the entire game on solo or smallscale players so that they get killed when they can't do anything? If so, the buff to scattershot ranged worked entirely as intended.
Until they fix or change the scattershot stun the skill should have 8-12m range and be rarely used because of how jarring it is.

Gilvoth

SmackNCheese wrote: »

Is the purpose of a bow to run in a large group and to spam perhaps the worst coded stun in the entire game on solo or smallscale players so that they get killed when they can't do anything? If so, the buff to scattershot ranged worked entirely as intended.
Until they fix or change the scattershot stun the skill should have 8-12m range and be rarely used because of how jarring it is.

bow users are solo.
atleast i am, unless with my 2 friends.
but im mainly solo most of the time.
what you are describing i have never seen. mainly what is seen is that zergs or large groups are using ranged magicka damage abilities and they have 80 percent of the group spaming time stop and crowd controls on 1 person in the extreme.
i dont find bow users in those groups nor in the zergs.

Juhasow

Elusiin wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Elusiin wrote: »

Destructive reach is a UTILITY SKILL, why does it keep the 28 meter range! This is so unreasonable!

"Destructive Reach (morph): This morph increases the range to 28 meters and reduces the cost to 2430 at Rank IV."

At least change one of Scatter Shots morphs to give us the 28 meter range!! It's a bow, BOWS ARE A RANGED WEAPON...

Reach is now a dot.. Clench at 17m (or is it 15m) has the knockback..

I play my bow bow blade at medium range (19-20m)... Asylum gank style. I hate those from 40m 1 button snipe spammer flops as much if not more than everyone else. Always 3rd partying a fight they are not even in. They are the reason I made a bow bow blade in the first place and are my favorite ppl to gank in Cyro.

Draining Shot is a utility skill to me... just knocks ppl back so I can escape or set up another Asylum combo and now it does an even better job of that. Well that and to yeet ppl off things and into lava....

EDIT: form the natch potes

• Destructive Touch: Redesigned this ability and its morphs to function as a DoT, rather than a utility skill.
• This ability no longer grants additional bonuses depending on the staff you are using.
• Reduced the range to 15 meters from 17 meters.

so no knock back no immobilize

That's not the full notes:

Destructive Reach (morph): This morph retains the unique functionality for each elemental staff type you choose, but no longer deals damage over time. Flame Clench knocks the target back and stuns them for the duration; Frost Clench Immobilizes the target. Shock converts the attack into an AoE explosion, and deals our AoE damage standard.
Destructive Reach (morph): This morph increases the range to 28 meters and reduces the cost to 2430 at Rank IV.

Still has CC and still has that range, but loses damage over time.

That is a mistake in patch notes. Clench will have functionality changed based on the staff type. So no argument of defense here since both skills are getting range reduction and for clench it's actually bigger reduction.

As for argument about reducing scatter shot range and saying "I am range build I want to play from range distance" I think many meele setups can use similar argument and say "I am a meele setup I want to play from meele" and 36 meters cheap knockback with decent dmg was way to overloaded against meele setups In PvP. Making it 28 meters from previous 8 meters was a mistake because original funtionality of the skill was to help archer to move back when enemy camed too close but when it was changed to 28 meters (which in PvP will go up to 36+ meters) that funcionality changed also and basically made that ability no brainer to spam especially when in group. Fact that You could combine it with snipe into 1 combo from full distance should never happen.

Good change in generalsince archers had it way too easy since it was changed to 28 meters. Skill still have decent range of 22 meters which when used quickly still disallows meele setup to come close since even if enemy starts gap closing You can knock him back mid animation but now it requires to act more quickly. Plus draining shot also got heal right away when enemy gets stunned not after he breaks free which is a buff.

Undefwun

Gilvoth wrote: »

bow users are solo.
atleast i am, unless with my 2 friends.
but im mainly solo most of the time.
what you are describing i have never seen. mainly what is seen is that zergs or large groups are using ranged magicka damage abilities and they have 80 percent of the group spaming time stop and crowd controls on 1 person in the extreme.
i dont find bow users in those groups nor in the zergs.

You kidding right... ?

Look at any large pug zerg... mid to back and along the sides.. always ppl spamming bows... at least on PC NA

I know because that is where I am with my mag or bow blade looking for them to pick them off and disappear again...

universal_wrath

Gilvoth wrote: »

all truth Elusiin, i main bow and i play ranged so i dont die.
zenimax, please dont take away skills that keep us at a distance.

Truth is, scatter shot is now fixed, it should have never been 28m. Previously scatter shot gets you(caster) to far from targets that you can't attack them anymore, unless you spam snipe(I hope they reduce its range). The new version of scatter shot is designed to get you away from gap closers range, so you use it defensivly to make distanse, rather than offensly to... I don't know since you keep them out of you range attacks. Gap closer 22m max, and scatter shot 22m at max either. Now I don't have to dodge roll 20 times to get to you as you keep spamming scatter shot from the end of the map. You use it if you are in range of my gap closer, play fair. Scatter shot is not you only defensive tool is you have major expidition on dodge roll too.

Rikumaru

the scattershot range nerf on this new patch for pvp is Perfect, i hope stays.
the range nerf is good for pvp, it needs to stay. zenimax, please do not revert the changes to scattershot they are good for pvp.

frostz417

Scattershot was another cancer to the game. Obnoxious buggy cc that zerglings just spammed.
I really don’t feel any sorrow for these “archers” and how their playstyle is being gutted.
It’s the most cowardly playstyle in the game in PvP. Just sit behind a zerg spamming drainshot and snipe.
Snipe shouldn’t even be buffed, it should stay nerfed into the dirt.

Gnozo

Scatter shot is designed to get the first ambush of an enemy interruptet and giving you a window to get some distance by moving. It was never meant to be a spammable on max range. Its an o-***-someone-is-near-me-skill.

SodanTok

It doesnt ruin anything worth saving. Any bow combat that happened at 28+m range isnt worth keeping. The fact they did little to improve bow combat below 20m is the worse offense. And how this change affects BRP bow with no changes to how it works is just cherry on top.

CCs? All CCs should be 22m range max.

WildRaptorX

Also let us keep holding our heavy attacks again. Stamina skills that work well with bows are few. Give us this extra little perk back!

technohic

They dont want you to have everything at 28m. Think it's clear that they want the CC to be a tool to create distance when melee closes, not a CC to land burst combos from the safety of range.

I would like for a viable mid range bow use though. Might slot a load out to try using the new bolts spammable. Was not a fan of the psijiik skill buffing light attacks.

universal_wrath

Keylun wrote: »

Also let us keep holding our heavy attacks again. Stamina skills that work well with bows are few. Give us this extra little perk back!

Ever tried using spine, LA, crushing weapon, LA, posion injection, LA? When I used to gank on my night blade, i would kill most people without geting to posion 8njection part, if they survived, well...keep sniping them till they die. Easy peasy

Note: I do not gank any more, istopped before elswyre patch. I feel pure now

SoulKing32

frostz417 wrote: »

Scattershot was another cancer to the game. Obnoxious buggy cc that zerglings just spammed.
I really don’t feel any sorrow for these “archers” and how their playstyle is being gutted.
It’s the most cowardly playstyle in the game in PvP. Just sit behind a zerg spamming drainshot and snipe.
Snipe shouldn’t even be buffed, it should stay nerfed into the dirt.

So much this!

Aliyavana

frostz417 wrote: »

Scattershot was another cancer to the game. Obnoxious buggy cc that zerglings just spammed.
I really don’t feel any sorrow for these “archers” and how their playstyle is being gutted.
It’s the most cowardly playstyle in the game in PvP. Just sit behind a zerg spamming drainshot and snipe.
Snipe shouldn’t even be buffed, it should stay nerfed into the dirt.

Draining shot is mostly used as a xv1 tool

Elusiin

These changes are trash, you can't kill anyone in pvp without being able to stun, and if I get within 20 meters, melee just gonna spam critical rush on me and kill me. My only DPS ability for bow has a cast time (snipe), and does mediocre damage which is why it's best used from a distance. Sounds like the ones complaining about scatter shot don't use a gap closer, which is a ltp issue. The ability is the only stun for a ranged stamina necromancer or warden build, and by nerfing the range, they'll be useless in any PvP area. I really hope this does not go to live, so stupid to revert quality of life updates.

Derra

I haven´t met a single player since the range got increased that used it to create meaningful bow gameplay at high range.

I´ve met dozens of zerglings doing nothing but spam stun from maxrange to be annoying. They don´t even try to kill you (when they´re alone). They just wanna be annoying *****.

SodanTok

Derra wrote: »

I haven´t met a single player since the range got increased that used it to create meaningful bow gameplay at high range.

I´ve met dozens of zerglings doing nothing but spam stun from maxrange to be annoying. They don´t even try to kill you (when they´re alone). They just wanna be annoying *****.

This. There is no range fight for anyone but maybe magsorc and nightblade snipe ganker. Anyone who even tried to use bow for real (doing something else than bow ganking or sitting on wall) either stopped already or fights most of the time under 20m range.

The buff to reliable healing from draining shot is going to improve bow gameplay more than any other nerf to the ability is 'ruining it'.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Gosh darn plinkers...

Excelsus

Scattershot is a disengage skill. Oh crap I'm being rushed. Let me apply cc, get some health back and create distance. But it was being used and abused as an engage, chase and a spammable in bgs. The current nerf retains its ability to peel someone trying to pressure you while limiting its ability to be abused. And if you were using it in pve... then this nerf wont make you any more terrible than you likely already are.

Toc de Malsvi

Scatter Shot is a CC, and should be used like all CC's. However Zos has decided that spamming damage from max range shouldn't have a CC. Which is fine.

22m is fine for everything except ganking and Xv1, so meh.