A request for ZOS to review Pirate Skeleton

Girl_Number8 · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

There are other sources of Major Protection that are even more reliable than this set. Why are so many people hellbent on nerfing it? If it is so good, why aren't YOU using it?

Because they died or couldn't kill someone, so it was the monster helm's fault boo hoo ;-;

What else would you expect.

templesus · July 2019

The amount of people in here defending pirate is exactly why the forums are useless.

Derra · July 2019

Imo it comes down to Major Protection being way too prevalent and accessible as a buff.

Just look how accessible major berserk is compared to major potection.
And then compare it to major vulnerability vs major maim (those are somewhat balanced).

Koensol · July 2019

Sharee wrote: »

Koensol wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Ethardt wrote: »

Unbalanced. Please rework.
(less uptime or minor protec,...)

So youll get a set that reduces incoming damage by 15% at the cost of reducing incoming healing by 15%. At this point, you might as well save yourself the trouble and not wear anything.

Yes. Better than wearing it since it covers up people's lack of skill

Love this. Can't beat them? Try to guilt them into wearing something else, then you will be able to beat them.
But remember, it is THEY that lack skill, not you!

/rollseyes.

For real man... this comment can literally be applied to ANY discussion about sets. I wonder what it lacks... oh right! C O N T E X T.

The way people choose their builds (skill levels aside) is by looking at what the expected amount of damage will be that most people are putting out, and by looking at the expected amount of damage you will need to kill most people. This creates some sort of a baseline on which you choose your sets, enchants, etc. so that your build will be suited to perform against most people out there. Then you have sets like pirate skeleton, which makes people insanely tanky with high uptime, while they are still able to put out very high damage because this 2 pc set covers almost their entire defensive needs. Can you not see where this causes friction? It forces you to spec more offensively in order to take them down, but in turn you open yourself up to being bursted down as result of a lack of mitigation. The only solution would be either add more defense and struggle to kill a lot of people, or simply don't give a damn and slot pirate skeleton yourself.

The set itself is fine in a sense, the one thing that makes it OP is the uptime being way too high.
Aaah I'm already looking forward to your response

<shrug> you wont be excited by my response. So the attacker has to spec more bursty to be able to beat PS. Kinda like the PS user had to spec more tanky by not using an offensive set instead of PS.

Everyone's like "OMG look at the mighty 15% effective tankiness!" while conveniently forgetting that the tankiness comes at the price of not dropping a 12k tooltip skoria every 5 seconds on your enemy's head. And thats not even the most powerful offensive set.

The "but they can still do damage with PS!" cuts both ways. You can still be tanky without PS and do insane damage. There are bloodspawn builds that take a zerg to kill them.

Right, so you want to wear 3 offensive sets? Ahaha good luck with that unless you are a zergling player. If you wear skoria and don't use a single defensive set to balance out your build, you will get popped like a fly. Pirate skeleton covers more defense than any other set in the game for the amount of 2 pieces. It is simply out of line.

Also, 15%? Nah mate. You have been reading the wrong forum posts that somehow claim all damage reductions have to be halved because of battle spirit. Which is complete and utter nonsense. Damage reduction is multiplicative, meaning it works from the latest known source of damage. That being the damage you'd have received without major protection up. If you have major protection up, that damage is now reduced by 30%. This has been tested over and over again by people on the forums.

Bloodspawn is also a defensive (sustain/utility) set, but it comes nowhere near the ROI of pirate skeleton on most builds. Bloodspawn synergizes really well with people who run a cheap defensive ult, like the SnB ult and use it together with other sources of ult gen (heroic slash, shimmering shield, etc). And guess what, it got nerfed, and rightfully so. The actual resistance means *** all in this meta where people are stacking penetration.

brandonv516 · July 2019

Sharee wrote: »

Ethardt wrote: »

Unbalanced. Please rework.
(less uptime or minor protec,...)

So youll get a set that reduces incoming damage by 15% at the cost of reducing incoming healing by 15%. At this point, you might as well save yourself the trouble and not wear anything.

lol

Glory · July 2019

Wihuri wrote: »

brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »

Set would be useless if minor protect #temporalguard

Temporal is awesome of course. The change to minor would open up the other morph. Not to mention you would have the protection on both bars while wearing it. Then there's templar, but it would still be a good set on templars that do not slot aedric spear abilities (as healer). Change to ransack would also mean minor would not be good to pair with it. Anyway how many people will slot ransack in pvp? Surely there are other options for those people. Even with 100% uptime on minor protection I could see myself slotting pirate skeleton.

There is a different morph of temporal guard?

Massacre_Wurm · July 2019

templesus wrote: »

The amount of people in here defending pirate is exactly why the forums are useless.

Sure , i am okay with moving PS bonus on 5pc set. But saying " major protection is op by itself" when we clearly have too much damage in no cp is bs.

Glory · July 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

ChunkyCat wrote: »

ZoS makes all this high damage crap, then people complain when they also give players a way to mitigate the damage.

10/10 will whine about anything.

Yeapers. Op lost me at this "DISCLAIMER: I currently wear this set on different builds"

They will be butthurt about something else soon with their partner in these threads. xD

What? Why would me saying I use the set lose you?

I would understand if you stopped reading because I was complaining about getting killed by a Snipe spammer and thus was yelling about OP OP snipe.

Instead, I was suggesting that a set be reviewed, as many (including myself) have identified it as being far too stat dense.

del9 · July 2019

Yes, Pirate Skeleton is in need of immediate attention.

In situations with stacked healers, the minor defile is almost negligible.

The uptime is too high, and major protection doesn't respect penetration, which when built for becomes a huge pain point.

Another idea is to reduce the % modifier of Major protection to 15, 20, or 25.

kalunte · July 2019

what if there was monster set that gave major vuln for 9sec out of 12 with a minor mangle on the caster? it would be the same OP and everyone here would cry about it, while having it 3sec out of 12 would be "op but manageable".

on already tanky templates you just cant stack dots on the skeleton for 9sec, waiting for a 3sec window to drop the hell on the no-more-skeleton and kill it. also, the more you stack dots on it, the more chance it has to proc again that's why i'm talking of a 3sec window, it will more likely be 4/5 but with blocks and dodge you can have really short "exposed" window.

give it a 20/30sec cooldown or reduce the proc to a 3sec duration and it'll be fine. also remove minor defile since it's pretty much useless on combat, it only helps ppl to argue that the set is balanced while it isnt at all.

Tattooo · July 2019

Pirate Skeleton:
Reduced the duration of the proc from this set to 10 seconds from 12 seconds.
Increased the cooldown to 20 seconds from 15 seconds.
The Minor Defile is now Major Defile.

Dottzgaming · July 2019

del9 wrote: »

Yes, Pirate Skeleton is in need of immediate attention.

In situations with stacked healers, the minor defile is almost negligible.

The uptime is too high, and major protection doesn't respect penetration, which when built for becomes a huge pain point.

Another idea is to reduce the % modifier of Major protection to 15, 20, or 25.

Personally i think that's the way to go - reduce major protection down to like 20/25% instead of 30%.

If they dont want to go that route, they can increase the downtime from 3 seconds to something like 5 or 6 seconds.

Glory · July 2019

From PTS patch notes 5.1.1:

Pirate Skeleton:
Reduced the duration of the proc from this set to 10 seconds from 12 seconds.
Increased the cooldown to 20 seconds from 15 seconds.
The Minor Defile is now Major Defile.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
These changes were done to adhere the set to our itemization standards, and was prioritized over others as a large callout by the community that this set was enabling far too much protection with too little draw back. Note that the tooltip currently still states Minor Defile, and will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Excelsus · July 2019

So now that Earthgore, restro staff and Pirate have been gutted can we admit that our failure to kill someone is strictly our failure... or is there going to be a new scapegoat now?

Daedric_NB_187 · July 2019

Excelsus wrote: »

So now that Earthgore, restro staff and Pirate have been gutted can we admit that our failure to kill someone is strictly our failure... or is there going to be a new scapegoat now?

You already know there will be.

Glory · July 2019

Excelsus wrote: »

So now that Earthgore, restro staff and Pirate have been gutted can we admit that our failure to kill someone is strictly our failure... or is there going to be a new scapegoat now?

"These changes were done to adhere the set to our itemization standards"

This is stating that the set was overtuned, and required standardization to be balanced.

Myux · July 2019

D E S T R O Y E D
E
S
T
R
O
Y
D

TANKS BLOWN THE heck OUT

leepalmer95 · July 2019

Excelsus wrote: »

So now that Earthgore, restro staff and Pirate have been gutted can we admit that our failure to kill someone is strictly our failure... or is there going to be a new scapegoat now?

Seems like balance to me.

maxjapank · July 2019

Way to go nerf boys. Now this set will never be used again.

RouDeR · July 2019

ROFL, Major DEFILE, are you freaking kidding me, no one and their mothers will use this set ever again xD

EtTuBrutus · July 2019

This set is now D E D DED

Strider__Roshin · July 2019

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

This set is now D E D DED

Spawn quote?

EtTuBrutus · July 2019

Daus wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

This set is now D E D DED

Spawn quote?

It is. But i was really thinking blazing saddles.

fred4 · July 2019

ZOS never deftly modify anything. I'm afraid to speak up, because everything they do is an overreaction.

Strider__Roshin · July 2019

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

Daus wrote: »

EtTuBrutus wrote: »

This set is now D E D DED

Spawn quote?

It is. But i was really thinking blazing saddles.

Lol an even better movie to quote.

Nirnroot420 · July 2019

Set needed to be nerfed, but in classic ZoS fashion they overreacted and made it useless. It'll be confined, like 2/3rds of other monster sets, to collect dust in a bank.

Steadfast Hero will be the go-to for magicka pvp, or a return to heavy armor, but tanky + damage will not go away, folks. Either way, you're going to have to find another reason to explain why you lose in Cyrodiil.

wheem_ESO · July 2019

This 5.1.1 version of Pirate Skeleton is basically worthless, and doubly so on Magicka Necromancer. Using Render Flesh alongside Pirate Skeleton will give you both Minor and Major Defile, with no input from your opponent besides simply doing damage. Obviously, no one is going to use the set as it is right now, so the defense has to come from somewhere else. Problem is, Magicka Necromancer's sustain is the worst in the game. And since Mystic Siphon isn't worth slotting in PvP, you're left with nothing but natural regeneration + specialized sets.

I guess Magicka Necromancers are supposed to wear a defensive 5 piece, a sustain 5 piece, and...what, Skoria? I mean sure, we've got access to several DOTs now, but with that sort of a gear setup you're not going to have enough damage to be very threatening.

Edit: And this is on top of a fairly substantial nerf to Protective - something else which basically feels like a requirement on Magicka builds that lack mobility. Battlegrounds needed to favor Stamina builds less, not more.

Trian94 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Ethardt wrote: »

Unbalanced. Please rework.
(less uptime or minor protec,...)

So youll get a set that reduces incoming damage by 15% at the cost of reducing incoming healing by 15%. At this point, you might as well save yourself the trouble and not wear anything.

Yes. Better than wearing it since it covers up people's lack of skill

Love this. Can't beat them? Try to guilt them into wearing something else, then you will be able to beat them.
But remember, it is THEY that lack skill, not you!

/rollseyes.

Sure they are, cause they are rocking a set that gives you mitigation worth of 20k resistances and it has 80% uptime with a poor excuse of a debuff that can be ignored easily and that's a 2 piece set. Yeah it's balanced cause it makes people who defend it not die in 2 seconds. *eyeroll*

I can't help but notice that all of the classes in your signature have access to great mobility and/or cloak. In other words, solid survivability options without being forced to rely on facetanking damage.

I barely play magsorc and stamblade in pvp. As far as stamsorc is concerned, yeah it has some mobility but all that's useful for is escaping some of the bs in cyrodiil. But i don't quite understand your point. How is my main class related to pirate skeleton being stupidly op?

It's related because you don't have any "need" to use Pirate Skeleton for staying alive. Do you think things might be a bit different if your Stamina Sorcerer didn't have access to Streak, and wasn't able to afford very much dodge rolling or sprinting? Try playing some immobile magicka builds without a BRP Resto Staff, against good players in no-CP.

Trian94 · July 2019

Finally it's nerfed. No more free mitigation for a ridiculously long uptime

Trian94 · July 2019

wheem_ESO wrote: »

This 5.1.1 version of Pirate Skeleton is basically worthless, and doubly so on Magicka Necromancer. Using Render Flesh alongside Pirate Skeleton will give you both Minor and Major Defile, with no input from your opponent besides simply doing damage. Obviously, no one is going to use the set as it is right now, so the defense has to come from somewhere else. Problem is, Magicka Necromancer's sustain is the worst in the game. And since Mystic Siphon isn't worth slotting in PvP, you're left with nothing but natural regeneration + specialized sets.

I guess Magicka Necromancers are supposed to wear a defensive 5 piece, a sustain 5 piece, and...what, Skoria? I mean sure, we've got access to several DOTs now, but with that sort of a gear setup you're not going to have enough damage to be very threatening.

Edit: And this is on top of a fairly substantial nerf to Protective - something else which basically feels like a requirement on Magicka builds that lack mobility. Battlegrounds needed to favor Stamina builds less, not more.

Trian94 wrote: »

wheem_ESO wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Trian94 wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Ethardt wrote: »

Unbalanced. Please rework.
(less uptime or minor protec,...)

So youll get a set that reduces incoming damage by 15% at the cost of reducing incoming healing by 15%. At this point, you might as well save yourself the trouble and not wear anything.

Yes. Better than wearing it since it covers up people's lack of skill

Love this. Can't beat them? Try to guilt them into wearing something else, then you will be able to beat them.
But remember, it is THEY that lack skill, not you!

/rollseyes.

Sure they are, cause they are rocking a set that gives you mitigation worth of 20k resistances and it has 80% uptime with a poor excuse of a debuff that can be ignored easily and that's a 2 piece set. Yeah it's balanced cause it makes people who defend it not die in 2 seconds. *eyeroll*

I can't help but notice that all of the classes in your signature have access to great mobility and/or cloak. In other words, solid survivability options without being forced to rely on facetanking damage.

I barely play magsorc and stamblade in pvp. As far as stamsorc is concerned, yeah it has some mobility but all that's useful for is escaping some of the bs in cyrodiil. But i don't quite understand your point. How is my main class related to pirate skeleton being stupidly op?

It's related because you don't have any "need" to use Pirate Skeleton for staying alive. Do you think things might be a bit different if your Stamina Sorcerer didn't have access to Streak, and wasn't able to afford very much dodge rolling or sprinting? Try playing some immobile magicka builds without a BRP Resto Staff, against good players in no-CP.

You are mistaken, the reason why I don't use pirate skeleton on my stamina sorcerer is because in no cp PvP stamsorc has really bad healing and pirate skeleton would just be a hindrance since i dont use lingering pots. So in essence I dont use pirate skeleton because it just doesn't fit the way I play my character and the builds that put together. I have played with and the difference in the past was not that big because I could move around faster due to that time's meta. The way stamina sorcerer is now (especially in no cp) not running streak is basically suicide.

PS: There are plenty of good players who don't use brp resto staff in no cp and they can handle themselves just fine.

Skinzz · July 2019

Hope you guys are happy! Good job nerfing another set to make it completely useless now. Tweaking it a bit would have been okay but I highly doubt anyone will use it now.