StamDK needs looking at [PvP and Identity]

Vortigaunt · July 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

StamDK has not seen a buff in a while.
The only strength of stamDK was a good synergy with Reverb Bash 7th Fury BS

Finally SnB weapon, 7th and fury sets have been nerfed rightly so. They allowed for survivability and an increace to WD which made stamDK unkillable and lethal. No more.

So it is time to look at the class which only receives nerfs but no improvements.

The passives are terrible and it requires a lot of magika to slot utility abilities.

Wings never got the favourable treatment that sorc abilities get when it's time for the nerf hammer. No consideration in adding increase cost per cast, no considerstion for 1s casting. No discussion just straight out removal of an awsome mechanic unique to the class.
This awsome animation became nothing more than a boring resistance buff.
Wardens tool our skill in a better form.

Way back with DB dlc stamDK became a terrible poison themed class, losing the bonus dmg vs vamps.

Igneous weapons is the most useless source of Maj Brutality. Look at the other class abiities with similar sources...

Chains became Silver Leash, nobody cared like NB and Necro rightly complain about Turn Evil.

I believe that it needs some stamina morphs in order for some new builds to appear now that the OP SnB 7th Fury BS has been nerfed, rightly so.

People are angry when they receive nerfs to overperforming builds, but they never care to improve underperforming playstyles. Let that sink in.

PS. Noxious Breath does not count as s buff. The ability was terrible since forever.

You do realize that stamdk has been turbo cancer last patch because of the BUFF it got... last patch... to cauterize?

Stamdk has been top dog for a long while and will continue to be top next patch too. L2p issue.

GeorgeBlack · July 2019

Aedaryl wrote: »

You have to face fury + S&B + BS.

S&B still the best weapon for Stamdk with a very good spammable. Just take your new warrior fear evil stun. And you will be fine.

That identity story doesn't justify changing DK skills when the toolkit available is already competitive.

At this point, ZoS should sell texture packages for classes that modify the animations.

DK abilities:
Cauterize
Fossilize
Igneous Shield
Volitile armor

Fr3ak1n0ut wrote: »

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Silly thread. StamDK is very strong and has received countless buffs. It will still be at or near the top of stam specs if everything on PTS goes live.

It can be played successfully solo with just about any combo of stam weapons.

Devs please disregard this thread.

Please share with the rest of the class what those "countless buffs" are. The initial hit from obnoxious breath may have been buff but the skill is far from viable/fine. The hit box is still ass. I have to be in your pocket to land the hit and there is still a very high chance to miss it. Please dont go with "they have the best sustain". Its tied to a passive that forces you to use your strongest skill to restore resources rather than to turning the tide or finishing your target. The other one is tied to casting a insanely expensive magicka skill that cost 4050 magicka that rewards you with a whopping 990 stam. That is amazing sustain right there gee willikers batman!

I swear I do not understand why people like you can spread false information about a class that can hardly qualify as one with passives that hardly synergize with it and lack of...I dont know. Useful stamina morphs and passives.

Sure, lets list all the skills a stam dk could potentially use:

1. Cauterize: Insane HoT for StamDK
2. Fragmented Shield: If you dont understand why this ability is so strong, you dont know how to play DK
3. Wings: Not gonna always slot this, but in certain situations this skill can be very strong.
4. Corrosive: Not even gonna bother explaining why.
5. Leap: Good instant damge.
6. Claw: Next patch this is gonna have great single target damage
7. Noxious: Decent Skill, not perfect but usable if you want to
8. Petrify: Great Stun
9. Volatile / Hardened Armor: Resistances + dmg return / shield. Not much else to say to this

Now, just for comparison´s sake, lets look at stam sorc:

1. Dark Deal: Great utility skill
2. Hurricane: Decent Dot, nice for minor expedition and resistance buffs
3. Streak: Useful for some builds, probably gonna be used more next patch for unblockable stun
4. Uuuuhm, crit surge? Not really. Bound Armor? Well, also not great. Ultimate anyone? Nope.

I am not even gonna start talking about passives. This comparison was only made to show stam dk has many abilities it can potentially slot for class identity, whereas stam sorc has almost none. Same applies to necro btw. And dont come to me and say "but these abilities cost magicka! They are not stamina skills!" If you dont understand that using both of your resources is actually better for you, then I also dont know how to convince you. All the abilities I mentioned either scale with stamina or offer resource agnostic functionality that can be useful for both magicka and stamina dragonknights.

Stam DK is in a good spot for PvP. There is other classes that need more love than this one.

Crit surge isnt good? Are you crazy? Compared to Igneous Weapons.
Passives? Solid % bonuses for abilities slotted.
No sympathy for stamsorc except for identity issues. Gtfo. U are in the wrong topic.

Wikter_Bravo · July 2019

I don't know about cp, but duoing in cyro on non cp was cancer. Now it will be even worse as a stam dk.

TrinityBreaker · July 2019

Fr3ak1n0ut wrote: »

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Silly thread. StamDK is very strong and has received countless buffs. It will still be at or near the top of stam specs if everything on PTS goes live.

It can be played successfully solo with just about any combo of stam weapons.

Devs please disregard this thread.

Please share with the rest of the class what those "countless buffs" are. The initial hit from obnoxious breath may have been buff but the skill is far from viable/fine. The hit box is still ass. I have to be in your pocket to land the hit and there is still a very high chance to miss it. Please dont go with "they have the best sustain". Its tied to a passive that forces you to use your strongest skill to restore resources rather than to turning the tide or finishing your target. The other one is tied to casting a insanely expensive magicka skill that cost 4050 magicka that rewards you with a whopping 990 stam. That is amazing sustain right there gee willikers batman!

I swear I do not understand why people like you can spread false information about a class that can hardly qualify as one with passives that hardly synergize with it and lack of...I dont know. Useful stamina morphs and passives.

Sure, lets list all the skills a stam dk could potentially use:

1. Cauterize: Insane HoT for StamDK
2. Fragmented Shield: If you dont understand why this ability is so strong, you dont know how to play DK
3. Wings: Not gonna always slot this, but in certain situations this skill can be very strong.
4. Corrosive: Not even gonna bother explaining why.
5. Leap: Good instant damge.
6. Claw: Next patch this is gonna have great single target damage
7. Noxious: Decent Skill, not perfect but usable if you want to
8. Petrify: Great Stun
9. Volatile / Hardened Armor: Resistances + dmg return / shield. Not much else to say to this

Now, just for comparison´s sake, lets look at stam sorc:

1. Dark Deal: Great utility skill
2. Hurricane: Decent Dot, nice for minor expedition and resistance buffs
3. Streak: Useful for some builds, probably gonna be used more next patch for unblockable stun
4. Uuuuhm, crit surge? Not really. Bound Armor? Well, also not great. Ultimate anyone? Nope.

I am not even gonna start talking about passives. This comparison was only made to show stam dk has many abilities it can potentially slot for class identity, whereas stam sorc has almost none. Same applies to necro btw. And dont come to me and say "but these abilities cost magicka! They are not stamina skills!" If you dont understand that using both of your resources is actually better for you, then I also dont know how to convince you. All the abilities I mentioned either scale with stamina or offer resource agnostic functionality that can be useful for both magicka and stamina dragonknights.

Stam DK is in a good spot for PvP. There is other classes that need more love than this one.

You forgot
1. Power Stone which reduces ultimate by 15%
2. Expert Mage which increases weapon & spell damage for slotting storm call skills.
3. Dark Deal which restores (reading the tooltip from my stam sorc) 8059 health and 3600 stamina(upfront) with 2400 stamina over 20 seconds
4. A passive reverse execute which deals more damage depending my on targets health. The passive name Amplitude.
Implosion:
Renamed this passive to Amplitude.
This passive is now a reverse execute mechanic, and increases your damage against targets by 1% for every 10% health they currently have.
The minimum bonus this passive can provide is 1% increased damage done.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/463159/xbox-one-patch-notes-v1-15-0-0-wrathstone-update-21#latest
5. Unholy Knowledge which reduces the cost of all magicka and stamina by 6%.

Call me crazy but these passives seems a whole world better than what (stam)DK has. Although I'll give it to you when it comes to active skills and ultimate, not sure on the "great damage" you speak of from venomous claw next patch though.

Ragnarock41 · July 2019

I'm neutral with a lot of these nerfs, and yes these are some serious nerfs, I suspect that stamDKs will now have to use uppercut for reliable kill pressure, as I highly doubt SnB builds will be able to kill a decent opponent in a reasonable time span now.(meaning they'll need to have more than the good old reverb+heroic weave, that won't work anymore.) So good thing uppercut got a significant buff, honestly all my hope is on that.

Also really appreciate the onslaught buffs. Honestly loved the changes on 2h line, they gave life back into a dead weapon line.

As far as the Dk identity part goes, all the recent nerfs to some specific abilities that used to make stamDK obsolete , resulted in making sDk much more of a noticeable class. Noxious finally has a place against shalks, sDK finally has its own class heal(cauterize), bleeds no longer ignore resistances, meaning that those poison dots are finally worth it.

Though, obviously I'm trying to be as optimistic as I can about this whole thing. There are still problems with sDk.

* Spiked armor still doesn't have a poison/physical damage morph. It would be a nice little touch, since nobody really liked the ''buff'' to hardened armor(and it honestly looks really bad, as if my character is covered in mud, Can't we just make this a poison morph that does what volatile armor does, but in physical damage? Or is that too much to ask? )

* DKs skill effects are so outdated that its impossible to tell what the enemy DK is doing from time to time. This I believe is one of the biggest frustrations people have against stamDks cause its impossible to tell when a sDK activates corrosive armor, cause the visual effect is barely visible with spiked armor , wings, fragmented shield and all that stuff. They all look similar in some way.

* Combustion is still an RNG passive at the end of the day, It works fine on magDK however most of my damage is physical on stamDK, resulting in poor utilization of this passive, plus the poisoned proc is significantly weaker than burning, which also needs a balance pass.

* world in ruin is still a badly designed passive. %25 cost reduction to poison dots is kind of insane, but its not helping when we only have access to two poison dots , (excluding the poison skills in bow skill line here.) My point being this passive being too powerful but also too niche while many of us would appreciate having a passive that gives a more general buff to a wider variety of weapon lines, not just bow.

* Now that fossilize is back to its 4k cost, stamDk's lack of CC will be very noticeable in certain specs. I'll be honest I never liked fossilize on my stamDK, it was too cheesy but it was a big part of why my dual wield build worked. @ZOS_Gilliam , Perhaps a good time to consider making something out of the stonefist? Why not make it a melee stam CC, that deals low damage + applies minor vulnerability for 4 seconds when successfully stunning people? dodgeable/blockable for balance purposes obviously. You can throw us a bone. Besides a punch that stuns and weakens the enemy would be so fitting for a bruiser class like stamDk.

Davadin · July 2019

oh how i wish they'd make Stonefist something usable....lol gave up on that dream years ago.

Btw, I use Cauterize and it's great every 5 sec.... but I wouldn't call it "insane" heals when it goes to my dying teammates whos retreating instead of me that has half health currently under attack by a zerg.

Ragnarock41 · July 2019

Davadin wrote: »

oh how i wish they'd make Stonefist something usable....lol gave up on that dream years ago.

Btw, I use Cauterize and it's great every 5 sec.... but I wouldn't call it "insane" heals when it goes to my dying teammates whos retreating instead of me that has half health currently under attack by a zerg.

It would be a fitting CC for stamDk, I mean, what would be more fitting than a punch as a skill for a brawler type of class? I always thought it was kind of odd that this was a magicka ability, and a ranged one at that too!

I don't even ask for this because it would be strong, lets be honest, nothing can possibly top fossilize if what you want is reliable CC, but at 4k magicka cost, we all know those days are over. I want the stonefist just for the epicness of it, being able to falcon punch my way through cyrodiil would be so much fun.

Right now stonefist already has this mechanic where it deals double damage if it successfully knocks down the target(though magDks already have enough damage through dots and whip procs, so they prefer the safety of fossilize obviously), I really believe this would be an excellent stam morph, and tying the bonus damage and debuff with the CC makes sure it can't be abused to have %100 uptime on those things I guess.

Rhaegar75 · July 2019

Personally I never feel in love with the 7th + whatever meta...I welcome the changes as a push toward new ideas and theroycrafting!

Hulk Dragr and Spriggan? what sets would you use in a medium setup?

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

DK is probably, apart from NB, the most flavour and identity class in ESO.

PvE Wise, it´s the best tank class.
PvP wise, tanky builds have dominated late Pvp, along with warden. Many unkillable builds that work in Cyrodill and in BGs.

Sure, it doesn´t have every role perfectly fitted, but none class has. I wish every class would be in a good shape as DK, tbh, both in Pvp and Pve...

Cortimi · July 2019

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Silly thread. StamDK is very strong and has received countless buffs. It will still be at or near the top of stam specs if everything on PTS goes live.

It can be played successfully solo with just about any combo of stam weapons.

Devs please disregard this thread.

Please share with the rest of the class what those "countless buffs" are. The initial hit from obnoxious breath may have been buff but the skill is far from viable/fine. The hit box is still ass. I have to be in your pocket to land the hit and there is still a very high chance to miss it. Please dont go with "they have the best sustain". Its tied to a passive that forces you to use your strongest skill to restore resources rather than to turning the tide or finishing your target. The other one is tied to casting a insanely expensive magicka skill that cost 4050 magicka that rewards you with a whopping 990 stam. That is amazing sustain right there gee willikers batman!

I swear I do not understand why people like you can spread false information about a class that can hardly qualify as one with passives that hardly synergize with it and lack of...I dont know. Useful stamina morphs and passives.

You are arguing with an obvious magsorc bro, there is no point. They can't evade Dizzying Swing spam, and they saw a DK use a 1h/s once so therefore the class needs nerfed into the ground so it can be "fine" (IE a complete non-threat to them).

I am right there with you. With the continued MEANINGFUL nerfs to DK, I'm rolling stamplar next patch. Literally anything a stamDK can do, a different class can do better.

Cortimi · July 2019

Fr3ak1n0ut wrote: »

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Silly thread. StamDK is very strong and has received countless buffs. It will still be at or near the top of stam specs if everything on PTS goes live.

It can be played successfully solo with just about any combo of stam weapons.

Devs please disregard this thread.

Please share with the rest of the class what those "countless buffs" are. The initial hit from obnoxious breath may have been buff but the skill is far from viable/fine. The hit box is still ass. I have to be in your pocket to land the hit and there is still a very high chance to miss it. Please dont go with "they have the best sustain". Its tied to a passive that forces you to use your strongest skill to restore resources rather than to turning the tide or finishing your target. The other one is tied to casting a insanely expensive magicka skill that cost 4050 magicka that rewards you with a whopping 990 stam. That is amazing sustain right there gee willikers batman!

I swear I do not understand why people like you can spread false information about a class that can hardly qualify as one with passives that hardly synergize with it and lack of...I dont know. Useful stamina morphs and passives.

Sure, lets list all the skills a stam dk could potentially use:

1. Cauterize: Insane HoT for StamDK
2. Fragmented Shield: If you dont understand why this ability is so strong, you dont know how to play DK
3. Wings: Not gonna always slot this, but in certain situations this skill can be very strong.
4. Corrosive: Not even gonna bother explaining why.
5. Leap: Good instant damge.
6. Claw: Next patch this is gonna have great single target damage
7. Noxious: Decent Skill, not perfect but usable if you want to
8. Petrify: Great Stun
9. Volatile / Hardened Armor: Resistances + dmg return / shield. Not much else to say to this

Now, just for comparison´s sake, lets look at stam sorc:

1. Dark Deal: Great utility skill
2. Hurricane: Decent Dot, nice for minor expedition and resistance buffs
3. Streak: Useful for some builds, probably gonna be used more next patch for unblockable stun
4. Uuuuhm, crit surge? Not really. Bound Armor? Well, also not great. Ultimate anyone? Nope.

I am not even gonna start talking about passives. This comparison was only made to show stam dk has many abilities it can potentially slot for class identity, whereas stam sorc has almost none. Same applies to necro btw. And dont come to me and say "but these abilities cost magicka! They are not stamina skills!" If you dont understand that using both of your resources is actually better for you, then I also dont know how to convince you. All the abilities I mentioned either scale with stamina or offer resource agnostic functionality that can be useful for both magicka and stamina dragonknights.

Stam DK is in a good spot for PvP. There is other classes that need more love than this one.

The fact that you don't understand how amazing Crit Surge is made you lose the entirety of all credibility.

Stamsorc can heal any resource pool at will.

Petrify costs half your MP.

Leap is not as good as DBoS (unless you NEED a gap closer) or the insane new 2h ulti buff.

Corrosive is made obsolete by new 2h, and has always been inferior to Barrier for survival.

Volatile is VERY underwhelming for Stam builds. A whopping 200 or so damage compared to %8 damage reduction, expedition, or something else actually useful.

Emma_Overload · July 2019

Am I the only one who saw "StamDK needs looking at..." in the headline and assumed this was going to be call for nerfs?

I can't believe anyone thinks these guys need BUFFS!

WreckfulAbandon · July 2019

StamDK is doing just fine in PvP, if anything needs to be "looked at" it's DK's easy access to Major Mending in light of most forms of Major Defile being nerfed/removed. Warden too. I understand the changes ZOS is trying to make but it's ridiculous that it's easier to get Major Protection than have access to Major Defile.

Thurvokun using StamDK's are absurd to fight in melee. Definitely don't need any StamDK specific buffs.

SkysOutThizeOut · July 2019

I’ve been 1vXing in a medium armor, 2 damage sets, all infused wd stam dk. The healing is absolutely insane. Depending on sets I have on demand wd 5400-6k and over 30k stam plus damage buffs I get from sets. Noxious breath is one of the best stamina spammable. It’s my spammable. An undodgeable aoe major fracture that has the same damage or more than the current ransack. Leap still one of the best ultimates. Now we are getting executioner... 400% at 7m range. Fossilize as made for mag dk. And even with the change I can still afford to spam it because I’m dunmer. Oh and whining about no class identity... major mending on demand with a cheap huge burst hot... now we can cast 2 vigor’s for 60% of what the cost is now and it’s buffed by mending.... venomous got buffed. Oh yeah we get 12% increased healin for having volatile armor active... buffing that 184% vigor for a total of 37% counting nothing else. Stamina is meant to use weapons anyway.

The only class that is going to pack dk up or have a chance is Templar because total dark is busted.

Ocelot9x · July 2019

Even tho I think that stamina dk is CURRENTLY fine,I’m worried about two things for the next patch:
Heavy weapon dmg sets are now trash tier, and it’s fine, they were really strong, but 90% of dks were using one of those sets, so it’s a minor nerf.
We finally have a “spammable” with noxious ( not the best in the game bust still a decent tooltip, s tronger spammable would have been hard to balance given all the pressure from the dots), we have a fairly good heal with cauterise, even tho it’s nothing exceptional but what is really locking me from using my good old sDk main is the absolute lack of anything worth using when smallscaling. Seriously, sdk is the last class I want to see in my smallscale group, and that’s funny cause I main it.
Every single class can do something useful, from healing, burst, support or debuffing except stamina dk.
We REALLY need something to slot when playing in a group, and I’m saying it since stamwarden came.
Reworking one morph of standard into a burst aoe debuffing ultimate (like flesh atronach) would be really helpful. A stamina morph of deep breath working like a proximity detonation. Anything would be good, but I have no hopes

Ragnarock41 · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Am I the only one who saw "StamDK needs looking at..." in the headline and assumed this was going to be call for nerfs?

I can't believe anyone thinks these guys need BUFFS!

Obviously stamDKs have all these unkillable pets that give line of sight, shields, healing, tons of ranged damage and what seems like infinite sustain.

On top of that they can streak away when a fight goes bad ! I can't believe anyone thinks these guys need BUFFS!

ZOS what are you doing nerf stamDks.... Can't believe this no skill class exists while poor magsorcs are still suffering...

juhislihis19 · July 2019

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Am I the only one who saw "StamDK needs looking at..." in the headline and assumed this was going to be call for nerfs?

I can't believe anyone thinks these guys need BUFFS!

Obviously stamDKs have all these unkillable pets that give line of sight, shields, healing, tons of ranged damage and what seems like infinite sustain.

On top of that they can streak away when a fight goes bad ! I can't believe anyone thinks these guys need BUFFS!

ZOS what are you doing nerf stamDks.... Can't believe this no skill class exists while poor magsorcs are still suffering...

Just ignore that Emma chick. She's the most biased sorc on the forums.