Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Vortigaunt wrote: »

It’s a physical damage type dot, same as magic damage dots.

You have fire, frost and ice damage, but you also have MAGIC damage, which has no status effect but gets buffed by warmaiden.

Same with stamina, you have poison and disease, but you also have BLEED damage, which has no status effect but does physical damage and gets buffed by automaton.

If anything we need a 3rd stamina status effect. The bleed damage is fine and is in like with magic damage dots.

We have physical dmg that does nothing but you get three types of special to our two types.

Also makes no since that you get minor vaun 8% to our nothing

Royaji wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

However changing all bleeds into a new damage type and adding an additional effect wouldn't be balanced either, because bleeds are much more accesssible than elemenal damage

Elemental damage is absolutely more accessible than bleeds. All of the Desto Staff skills deal elemental damage. DK, Sorc and Warden all have elemental damage in their class toolkits. There are only two actve skills which cause bleed and three passive bleeds available in the whole game.

With the current rework I see no reason why bleed shouldn't be turned into the third damage sub-type for physical damage and operate under the same ruleset (minor additional effect, glyphs and so on) as all other sub-types.

And how many of those destro staff skills are actually worth slotting? Also keep in mind, that magicka builds rarely have access to more than 1 type of elemental dmg in one build (outside of enchants - but those can be used by all builds regardless of stam/mag), while combining poison and bleed is trivial on stam builds.
As i said, i'm ok with giving bleed skills something in addition, but axe bleeds should not get any buffs. Elemental la/ha don't proc status effects either.

And if bleeds aren't physical dmg, then maybe they should fix stuff like automaton and CP to not buff them.

Sun7dance wrote: »

I don't understand the argument, that bleeds would be the dot of physical damage.
We already have Skills with physical damage dots! That has nothing to do with bleeds!

- Volley
- Caltrops
- Dawnbreaker
- Rend
- Ballista

Bleeds are really a different kind of damage! It's also not the pendant of magical damage!
So a secondary effect would be just fair and consequent!

So I've been thinking. Some of these DoT physical abilities and proc sets make sense not being bleeds, while others make more sense being bleeds.

• Volley - Arrows are flying at you over and over and over. You're not bleeding, you're being hit alot.
• Caltrops - Depends on your viewpoint, but you could just be stepping on a lego over and over and over, not bleeding.
• Dawnbreaker - This should be a bleed. You hit them ONCE, and now they are not getting hit over and over, but rather ticking down over time. That's a bleed.
• Rend - Should be a bleed, was just changed to a bleed (checkmark).
• Flurry - You animate that you are repeatedly stabbing something. Not a bleed.
• Ballista - A turret is shooting arrows over and over and over. Not a bleed.
• Trap Beast - Initial hit and then a physical DoT. It should be a bleed, nothing is repeatedly wacking someone from a trap.
• Maelstrom 2H - Hit someone with Critical Charge, apply a DoT. Should be a bleed, you're doing nothing to hit them again. The original hit is physical too (not something like poison) so it should be bleed damage.
• Deadly Cloak - Shooting blades at nearby enemies over and over and over. Makes sense that it COULD bleed, but it's again a wack wack wack ability.
• Stampede (new PTS version) - Initial hit, and then a DoT representing an Earthquake of some sorts. Doesn't need to be a bleed.
• Hurricane for Sorcs - Very similar to Deadly Cloak, nothing about bleeding would make sense here.
• Roar of Alkosh - If Pillar of Nirn bleeds, why is Roar of Alkosh not a bleed?

This again is not me saying I don't think Physical DoTs should exist. I'm simply saying some abilities make no sense being Physical DoTs as they should be logically applying a bleed. There is no longer a reason to limit bleeds available outside of this new set being released. If there are to many bleeds available it arguably takes 2 seconds to change 200 to something like 150 or 100 on that set per bleed. Bleeding isn't piercing through all your mitigation anymore.

tldr; Certain skills should be bleeds and certain skills should stay Physical DoTs. I outlined which ones make the most sense to be bleeds instead.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@Sun7dance rend counts as a bleed now.

Can you tell me the patchnotes when that changed?
Or is it even unintentional?

Thx!

soynegroyque wrote: »

Oh where is this bleeding enchantment?
Bleeding is not like fire/ice/shock or poison/disease.

Bleeds are not a type of damage unlike all all other "elements".

Well, could be because bleed or blood is not an element, that's my 5 cent to with it as you will.

There is something that people are not understanding and that is that bleeds are simply rebranded physical dots.
There are 8 damage types in the game
3 have no secondary effects : magic/physical/oblivion
2 Apply DOT status effects:
Poison/Flame
Note that the dot from the burning or poisoned status effects is magic and physical respectively and not fire and poison making these dots unable to proc themselves
Remaining 3 apply a minor debuff for 4 seconds
Ice/Shock/Disease.

Bleeding makes more sense to be a status effect. But that will cause a problem because physical damage will have to be the damage type that procs bleeding. That is a problem because if physical damage gets an status effect, magic damage will requiere one as well. That will still leave stamina lacking one damage type and one status effect behind magicka once again.

Next approach is to have another damage type that will apply bleeding.

Lets for the sake of argument that we have a 4th physical damage type lets call it "slash" damage. Slash has a change of causing bleeding.
Slash will be the 3rd damage type proc to proc a dot status effect.
Bleeding will be deal physical damage ,tick every 2 seconds and scale off WD/Stamina (just like the poisoned status effect)

Here we bump into another issue. This time physical damage will have two dot status effects (poisoned and bleeding) while mag is only having one (burning).
This can potentially offset the already growing gap beween mag and stam.

Conclussion is that bleeding should remain as a physical dot, and not be tied to being or granting a status effect.
It should be just a label for the single target physical dots.(such as twin slashes/ rend)
While reoccuring or ground based dots should be "physical damage" (such as hail balista)

In the event a 4th physical damage type is introduced it should grant a minor debuff. Perhaps something like "piercing" damage which has a change of "chipping" armor granting minor fracture, or simply another source of minor vulnerability.

Can’t you stack bleed effects on a single target? DW bleed, 2H bleed, armor set bleeds, etc...?

But you can’t stack the same effect of other abilities (ie multiple “concussed” effects) on a single target, right?