PLEASE, stop this before its too late! (Vigor)
-
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Ok I’m gonna throw this bit out mag toons have big burst heals.
IE: dk coagulating blood sorc clanfear or twilight Templar BoL just to name a few
What does stam have for self heals vigor a hot basically if you have enough burst you can negate a stam healing but magicka can go from execute to full health at the push of a button. On top of that mag doesn’t use their main resource pool to cc break or block stam will burn thru a stam pool if they have to block cc break and heal all off one pool.
Before any one wants to question me I have 18 toons 3 tanks 3 healers and a mag and stam dps for every class.
Now I end with a suggestion tbf for everyone revert the 6second duration on shields back to 30 seconds and be done with it shields are smaller can be crit and are effected by resistance. If that is to much remove shield duration entirely and have it tied to magicka pool so basically ur magicka drains as your shield holds would make sense considering how wards worked in other elder scrolls games.
Magsorc DPS wont have burst heals, pets are useless now and waste of two slots.1 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok I’m gonna throw this bit out mag toons have big burst heals.
IE: dk coagulating blood sorc clanfear or twilight Templar BoL just to name a few
What does stam have for self heals vigor a hot basically if you have enough burst you can negate a stam healing but magicka can go from execute to full health at the push of a button. On top of that mag doesn’t use their main resource pool to cc break or block stam will burn thru a stam pool if they have to block cc break and heal all off one pool.
Before any one wants to question me I have 18 toons 3 tanks 3 healers and a mag and stam dps for every class.
Now I end with a suggestion tbf for everyone revert the 6second duration on shields back to 30 seconds and be done with it shields are smaller can be crit and are effected by resistance. If that is to much remove shield duration entirely and have it tied to magicka pool so basically ur magicka drains as your shield holds would make sense considering how wards worked in other elder scrolls games.
stamina is in pvp used for more than just cc break or blocking. its used for dodge rolls and sprinting.
as mag. player you cannot sprint in no-cp cyrodiil because you have just 1 roll and 1 cc break till your stamina is gone.
putting more to stamina means sacrifice both healing and damage - stamina can throw everything to stamina without need of magicka - boosting damage, healing and utility (dodge, sprint,block,ccbreak)
even if you use shacklebreaker on mag, thats just one roll or one cc break more. it isnt enought to use stamina for blocking and sprinting.
BTW
my current vigor numbers on stamsorc in no-cp cyrodiil is 1,3k nonCRT and 1,9k crt. with vigor buffed its 2400 nonCRT and 3500CRT.
healing on my magsorc with matriarch is 5000 nonCRT and 7000 CRT
vigor is much cheaper than twilight and its hot.if twilight is considered BURST HEAL, which is now vigor??. its numbers are almost same. which makes vigor much better in healing than matriarch
Edited by Anyron on July 13, 2019 12:09PM4 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
I rarely play Cyrodiil honestly. I find it boring most occasions. IC is my primary residence0 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
Vigor is not a class ability like hardened ward if anything you should say rapid regen to make a fair comparison.
And guess what?rapid regen actually got buffed(is basically the same as vigor) so your point is not valid.
Also stamina got momentum/rally+vigor meanwhile magika got resto staff,shields and class abilities to chose from.
1 -
BattleAxe✭✭✭✭✭Ok I’m gonna throw this bit out mag toons have big burst heals.
IE: dk coagulating blood sorc clanfear or twilight Templar BoL just to name a few
What does stam have for self heals vigor a hot basically if you have enough burst you can negate a stam healing but magicka can go from execute to full health at the push of a button. On top of that mag doesn’t use their main resource pool to cc break or block stam will burn thru a stam pool if they have to block cc break and heal all off one pool.
Before any one wants to question me I have 18 toons 3 tanks 3 healers and a mag and stam dps for every class.
Now I end with a suggestion tbf for everyone revert the 6second duration on shields back to 30 seconds and be done with it shields are smaller can be crit and are effected by resistance. If that is to much remove shield duration entirely and have it tied to magicka pool so basically ur magicka drains as your shield holds would make sense considering how wards worked in other elder scrolls games.
stamina is in pvp used for more than just cc break or blocking. its used for dodge rolls and sprinting.
as mag. player you cannot sprint in no-cp cyrodiil because you have just 1 roll and 1 cc break till your stamina is gone.
putting more to stamina means sacrifice both healing and damage - stamina can throw everything to stamina without need of magicka - boosting damage, healing and utility (dodge, sprint,block,ccbreak)
even if you use shacklebreaker on mag, thats just one roll or one cc break more. it isnt enought to use stamina for blocking and sprinting.
BTW
my current vigor numbers on stamsorc in no-cp cyrodiil is 1,3k nonCRT and 1,9k crt. with vigor buffed its 2400 nonCRT and 3500CRT.
healing on my magsorc with matriarch is 5000 nonCRT and 7000 CRT
vigor is much cheaper than twilight and its hot.if twilight is considered BURST HEAL, which is now vigor??. its numbers are almost same. which makes vigor much better in healing than matriarch
Let me ask this after u dodge roll which is actually part of cc breaking or just cc break does that effect how many times you can cast a burst heal?
My answer no because burst heals are usually magicka cost not stam.
When I gave examples of burst heal I did also mention the sorc clanfear FYI.
A stamina player is punished by the simple fact pretty much everything they do costs stam which in the long run drains the pool they need to deal damage stam doesn’t usually have a way to use their mag pool as a defensive resource like mag can with stam.
Plus it is worth noting mag always has access to heals while the most effective heal for stamina is tied behind doing pvp content. Also this game has to sides where changing something for one side greatly effects the other currently.0 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
?????????????????????????????????????? Vigor is the only reliable stamina heal in the game which all classes have access to now. FM / Rally was core in pretty much every open world stamina build, if they just removed the HoT from that and didn't buff vigor in return alongside the heavy nerfs stamina would be in a pretty bad spot overall. Also as said before, pretty sure the vigor buff was 50% (alongside cheaper cost which is pretty huge) and not 85% due to ranking (at least this is what I've heard).Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.2 -
Skander✭✭✭✭✭
✭magicka gets a vigor = stamina vigor gets buffed. This is what you call balance.
magicka gets vigor only if you use a resto staffI meme, but my memes are so truthful they hurt
-Elder Nightblades Online
Want competitive pvp while being outnumbered? Tough luck, the devs clearly said you have to die in those situations1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
Vigor is not a class ability like hardened ward if anything you should say rapid regen to make a fair comparison.
And guess what?rapid regen actually got buffed(is basically the same as vigor) so your point is not valid.
Also stamina got momentum/rally+vigor meanwhile magika got resto staff,shields and class abilities to chose from.
Yeah, it's even worse! ALL stamina builds get that supercharged Vigor. I'm being generous here.
I addressed RR further down the post. It's not comparable, as RR is highly unreliable. Not to mention it requires a weaker weapon to be used.1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
?????????????????????????????????????? Vigor is the only reliable stamina heal in the game which all classes have access to now. FM / Rally was core in pretty much every open world stamina build, if they just removed the HoT from that and didn't buff vigor in return alongside the heavy nerfs stamina would be in a pretty bad spot overall. Also as said before, pretty sure the vigor buff was 50% (alongside cheaper cost which is pretty huge) and not 85% due to ranking (at least this is what I've heard).
Point is, what if you wouldn't use Rallye/Forward? Especially for PvE that's a big one.0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok I’m gonna throw this bit out mag toons have big burst heals.
IE: dk coagulating blood sorc clanfear or twilight Templar BoL just to name a few
What does stam have for self heals vigor a hot basically if you have enough burst you can negate a stam healing but magicka can go from execute to full health at the push of a button. On top of that mag doesn’t use their main resource pool to cc break or block stam will burn thru a stam pool if they have to block cc break and heal all off one pool.
Before any one wants to question me I have 18 toons 3 tanks 3 healers and a mag and stam dps for every class.
Now I end with a suggestion tbf for everyone revert the 6second duration on shields back to 30 seconds and be done with it shields are smaller can be crit and are effected by resistance. If that is to much remove shield duration entirely and have it tied to magicka pool so basically ur magicka drains as your shield holds would make sense considering how wards worked in other elder scrolls games.
stamina is in pvp used for more than just cc break or blocking. its used for dodge rolls and sprinting.
as mag. player you cannot sprint in no-cp cyrodiil because you have just 1 roll and 1 cc break till your stamina is gone.
putting more to stamina means sacrifice both healing and damage - stamina can throw everything to stamina without need of magicka - boosting damage, healing and utility (dodge, sprint,block,ccbreak)
even if you use shacklebreaker on mag, thats just one roll or one cc break more. it isnt enought to use stamina for blocking and sprinting.
BTW
my current vigor numbers on stamsorc in no-cp cyrodiil is 1,3k nonCRT and 1,9k crt. with vigor buffed its 2400 nonCRT and 3500CRT.
healing on my magsorc with matriarch is 5000 nonCRT and 7000 CRT
vigor is much cheaper than twilight and its hot.if twilight is considered BURST HEAL, which is now vigor??. its numbers are almost same. which makes vigor much better in healing than matriarch
Let me ask this after u dodge roll which is actually part of cc breaking or just cc break does that effect how many times you can cast a burst heal?
My answer no because burst heals are usually magicka cost not stam.
When I gave examples of burst heal I did also mention the sorc clanfear FYI.
A stamina player is punished by the simple fact pretty much everything they do costs stam which in the long run drains the pool they need to deal damage stam doesn’t usually have a way to use their mag pool as a defensive resource like mag can with stam.
Plus it is worth noting mag always has access to heals while the most effective heal for stamina is tied behind doing pvp content. Also this game has to sides where changing something for one side greatly effects the other currently.
vigor is stamina heal and with 50% of strength of "magicka burst heal", but also as Heal-over-time, and with lesser cost makes vigor superior to any burst heal in this game
A stamina player is punished by the simple fact pretty much everything they do costs stam which in the long run drains the pool they need to deal damage stam doesn’t usually have a way to use their mag pool as a defensive resource like mag can with stam
but you (as stamina) dont have to use cc breaks and dodge roll from your "defensive resource" , you can stack only your primary resource
also, if your stamina is at zero, you can have full magicka but its useless to you. which makes stamina more important than magickaEdited by Anyron on July 13, 2019 1:50PM1 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
Vigor is not a class ability like hardened ward if anything you should say rapid regen to make a fair comparison.
And guess what?rapid regen actually got buffed(is basically the same as vigor) so your point is not valid.
Also stamina got momentum/rally+vigor meanwhile magika got resto staff,shields and class abilities to chose from.
Yeah, it's even worse! ALL stamina builds get that supercharged Vigor. I'm being generous here.
I addressed RR further down the post. It's not comparable, as RR is highly unreliable. Not to mention it requires a weaker weapon to be used.
And all magika class got class abilities for healing/shielding not much of a difference,also resto staff is a weaker weapon?wut
Is like complaining that i have to slot a 2h to get a burst heal(rally)meanwhile all magika classes get access to a form of healing/shield by slotting a class skill.
Edited by killingspreeb16_ESO on July 13, 2019 1:55PM1 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
Vigor is not a class ability like hardened ward if anything you should say rapid regen to make a fair comparison.
And guess what?rapid regen actually got buffed(is basically the same as vigor) so your point is not valid.
Also stamina got momentum/rally+vigor meanwhile magika got resto staff,shields and class abilities to chose from.
Yeah, it's even worse! ALL stamina builds get that supercharged Vigor. I'm being generous here.
I addressed RR further down the post. It's not comparable, as RR is highly unreliable. Not to mention it requires a weaker weapon to be used.
And all magika class got class abilities for healing/shielding not much of a difference,also resto staff is a weaker weapon?wut
Is like complaining that i have to slot a 2h to get a burst heal(rally)meanwhile all magika classes get access to a form of healing/shield by slotting a class skill.
Nightblades don't get a proper class heal. Resto staves are quite useless as weapons. Slotting 2H gives you a heal, dps, gapcloser, execute, CC, weapon damage. Quite a bit. Resto only gives you healing. And lowers damage on that bar.1 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The heal on Rally got nerfed and Mag builds basically got Mag vigor with the new changes to Resto staff so the Vigor buff makes sense considering these facts?0 -
Crixus8000✭✭✭✭✭
✭
my current vigor numbers on stamsorc in no-cp cyrodiil is 1,3k nonCRT and 1,9k crt. with vigor buffed its 2400 nonCRT and 3500CRT.
healing on my magsorc with matriarch is 5000 nonCRT and 7000 CRT
May I ask what stats you have ? That's some big vigor ticks, mine isn't even close with 30k stam and 5k wep dmg.
0 -
Rikumaru✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
?????????????????????????????????????? Vigor is the only reliable stamina heal in the game which all classes have access to now. FM / Rally was core in pretty much every open world stamina build, if they just removed the HoT from that and didn't buff vigor in return alongside the heavy nerfs stamina would be in a pretty bad spot overall. Also as said before, pretty sure the vigor buff was 50% (alongside cheaper cost which is pretty huge) and not 85% due to ranking (at least this is what I've heard).
Point is, what if you wouldn't use Rallye/Forward? Especially for PvE that's a big one.
Who tf wouldn't use rally or FM? Theres a reason why 2h has been a core weapon in basically every stamina build since 1.6 and maybe even before. Just sounds like you have a massive bias against stamina builds. Kinda funny really.Overload rework. Power Overload now does physical damage and grants you the power of a tornado: You throw a brick at the target with a light attack, and you hammer your head into that brick with every heavy attack. We have decreased its Ultimate cost, but increased the chance that you get stuck in the animation.3 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
Vigor is not a class ability like hardened ward if anything you should say rapid regen to make a fair comparison.
And guess what?rapid regen actually got buffed(is basically the same as vigor) so your point is not valid.
Also stamina got momentum/rally+vigor meanwhile magika got resto staff,shields and class abilities to chose from.
Yeah, it's even worse! ALL stamina builds get that supercharged Vigor. I'm being generous here.
I addressed RR further down the post. It's not comparable, as RR is highly unreliable. Not to mention it requires a weaker weapon to be used.
And all magika class got class abilities for healing/shielding not much of a difference,also resto staff is a weaker weapon?wut
Is like complaining that i have to slot a 2h to get a burst heal(rally)meanwhile all magika classes get access to a form of healing/shield by slotting a class skill.
Nightblades don't get a proper class heal. Resto staves are quite useless as weapons. Slotting 2H gives you a heal, dps, gapcloser, execute, CC, weapon damage. Quite a bit. Resto only gives you healing. And lowers damage on that bar.
Resto staff give you better healing,magika return from HA,shields.it's a defensive/utility weapon but it does not make it weaker just because"it give me no dps!1!1!"
If it was that weak no one would ever slot one but people do because it's good.
Magika nb got class heal but is more like "hurt to heal playstyle"(strife/path for example)that gradually got nerfed for PvE reason.
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Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
Vigor is not a class ability like hardened ward if anything you should say rapid regen to make a fair comparison.
And guess what?rapid regen actually got buffed(is basically the same as vigor) so your point is not valid.
Also stamina got momentum/rally+vigor meanwhile magika got resto staff,shields and class abilities to chose from.
Yeah, it's even worse! ALL stamina builds get that supercharged Vigor. I'm being generous here.
I addressed RR further down the post. It's not comparable, as RR is highly unreliable. Not to mention it requires a weaker weapon to be used.
And all magika class got class abilities for healing/shielding not much of a difference,also resto staff is a weaker weapon?wut
Is like complaining that i have to slot a 2h to get a burst heal(rally)meanwhile all magika classes get access to a form of healing/shield by slotting a class skill.
Nightblades don't get a proper class heal. Resto staves are quite useless as weapons. Slotting 2H gives you a heal, dps, gapcloser, execute, CC, weapon damage. Quite a bit. Resto only gives you healing. And lowers damage on that bar.
Resto staff give you better healing,magika return from HA,shields.it's a defensive/utility weapon but it does not make it weaker just because"it give me no dps!1!1!"
If it was that weak no one would ever slot one but people do because it's good.
Magika nb got class heal but is more like "hurt to heal playstyle"(strife/path for example)that gradually got nerfed for PvE reason.
Resto staff is aceptable (not always used) in Pvp mag builds. PvEwise is totally garbage.2 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »Pretty sure I've heard resolving vigor or vigor lost some or all of it's increased healing per rank up so it is supposedly only 50% increased healing compared to live. Combine that with the fact that we no longer have rally / FM heal over time and vigor's increased healing really seems like a complete non-issue compared to live. Also if vigor is to be gutted, rapid regen would also need to be nerfed equally.
Forward Momentum is a strawman argument. How would you feel if Harness, Healing Ward and Rapid Regen got nerfed hard, but Hardened got quadrupeled in strength to compensate? So many free slots, so many resources and casts saved.
Vigor is also very reliable, RR is not. If anything, Rapid should be STRONGER than Vigor therefore. While magicka has shields, they cost casting turns and are getting nerfed, too. Stamina has ADDITIONAL blocks and dodges they can use whenever, even while breaking free.
@Daus
Cyrodiil isn't made for lone players cheesing noobs around a rock. The objective are keeps, so lots of group fights. This is what has to be considered regarding RR's reliability.
Also, help your alliance, man! Don't bum about with noobs, but help where every good man is needed!
Vigor is not a class ability like hardened ward if anything you should say rapid regen to make a fair comparison.
And guess what?rapid regen actually got buffed(is basically the same as vigor) so your point is not valid.
Also stamina got momentum/rally+vigor meanwhile magika got resto staff,shields and class abilities to chose from.
Yeah, it's even worse! ALL stamina builds get that supercharged Vigor. I'm being generous here.
I addressed RR further down the post. It's not comparable, as RR is highly unreliable. Not to mention it requires a weaker weapon to be used.
And all magika class got class abilities for healing/shielding not much of a difference,also resto staff is a weaker weapon?wut
Is like complaining that i have to slot a 2h to get a burst heal(rally)meanwhile all magika classes get access to a form of healing/shield by slotting a class skill.
Nightblades don't get a proper class heal. Resto staves are quite useless as weapons. Slotting 2H gives you a heal, dps, gapcloser, execute, CC, weapon damage. Quite a bit. Resto only gives you healing. And lowers damage on that bar.
Resto staff give you better healing,magika return from HA,shields.it's a defensive/utility weapon but it does not make it weaker just because"it give me no dps!1!1!"
If it was that weak no one would ever slot one but people do because it's good.
Magika nb got class heal but is more like "hurt to heal playstyle"(strife/path for example)that gradually got nerfed for PvE reason.
Resto staff is aceptable (not always used) in Pvp mag builds. PvEwise is totally garbage.
And it's only for some skills in PvP. S&B is a better weapon. 2H just had it all. Frankly, that skill line needed something removed. And giving that to a very easily accessible skill you're always running, anyway, is not a loss, it's a strong buff. Not at all in a league with nuked shields and a very unreliable RR.
I'd be perfectly fine if Mutagen was caster-exclusive!1 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just increase cost to 5k and then apply cost reduction... 4.5 ish would be fair, take it out of mags hands entirely(like that was going to happen) and keep the buff that way.Wuuffyy,
WW/berserker playstyle advocate (I play ALL classes proficiently in PvP outside of WW as well)
ESO player since 2014 (Xbox and PC for PTS)
-DM for questions0 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭Crixus8000 wrote: »
my current vigor numbers on stamsorc in no-cp cyrodiil is 1,3k nonCRT and 1,9k crt. with vigor buffed its 2400 nonCRT and 3500CRT.
healing on my magsorc with matriarch is 5000 nonCRT and 7000 CRT
May I ask what stats you have ? That's some big vigor ticks, mine isn't even close with 30k stam and 5k wep dmg.
29k stam 4,7wep dmg buffed (no-cp)
argonianEdited by Anyron on July 13, 2019 3:00PM0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
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Which basically most Stamina build does, especially in PvP. Restoration Staff is a Healing/Support weapon whereas 2h still is a high damaging DPS weapon for both PvE and PvP.
It does not make sense that Vigor only costs 2k Stamina, can be used on any build and heals for roughly 50% more than Rapid Regeneration which costs 2.7k Magicka and requires Restoration Staff and isn’t even main targeting the caster.
Everybody defending Vigor and taking Rapid Regeneration is the Magicka equivalent deliberately brushes over some glaring issues this comparison has.Edited by Seraphayel on July 13, 2019 3:18PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -4 -
DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seeing a lot of misinformation here. Echoing got buffed 85%, resolving got buffed 42%. Echoing, despite being 85% stronger, ticks half as often. That results in less HPS than live, at a reduced cost.
From the other thread on this;DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
Anyone with a 52k screenshot wanna post their character sheet and list of buffs plox?
No?
Didn't think so.
Way I see it, it's a big buff to solo stamina players and a relative nerf to people using vigor to heal each other at purely HPS values. I see it as fine, considering the damage from the new entropy and soul trap alone will outstrip the new vigor.2 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Seeing a lot of misinformation here. Echoing got buffed 85%, resolving got buffed 42%. Echoing, despite being 85% stronger, ticks half as often. That results in less HPS than live, at a reduced cost.
From the other thread on this;DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
Anyone with a 52k screenshot wanna post their character sheet and list of buffs plox?
No?
Didn't think so.
Way I see it, it's a big buff to solo stamina players and a relative nerf to people using vigor to heal each other at purely HPS values. I see it as fine, considering the damage from the new entropy and soul trap alone will outstrip the new vigor.
This isn't fine because entropy and soul trap will never "outstrip" the new vigor.
Stamina non rollercloakblade build run almost capped resistances with a lot of healing buff modifier.0 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »
Which basically most Stamina build does, especially in PvP. Restoration Staff is a Healing/Support weapon whereas 2h still is a high damaging DPS weapon for both PvE and PvP.
It does not make sense that Vigor only costs 2k Stamina, can be used on any build and heals for roughly 50% more than Rapid Regeneration which costs 2.7k Magicka and requires Restoration Staff and isn’t even main targeting the caster.
Everybody defending Vigor and taking Rapid Regeneration is the Magicka equivalent deliberately brushes over some glaring issues this comparison has.
And pretty much every magicka uses a resto. Yes, Vigor heals for 50% more because it only heals the user and not an additional player. Magicka can also use a proactive defense called damage shields in order to mitigate the need for healing while being on the offensive. It's a pretty simple thing to conceptualize.3 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Shields have been heavily nerfed (around 800 more magicka?) and not every magicka uses a Resto, not even in PvP.1
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DocFrost72✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DocFrost72 wrote: »Seeing a lot of misinformation here. Echoing got buffed 85%, resolving got buffed 42%. Echoing, despite being 85% stronger, ticks half as often. That results in less HPS than live, at a reduced cost.
From the other thread on this;DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
Anyone with a 52k screenshot wanna post their character sheet and list of buffs plox?
No?
Didn't think so.
Way I see it, it's a big buff to solo stamina players and a relative nerf to people using vigor to heal each other at purely HPS values. I see it as fine, considering the damage from the new entropy and soul trap alone will outstrip the new vigor.
This isn't fine because entropy and soul trap will never "outstrip" the new vigor.
Stamina non rollercloakblade build run almost capped resistances with a lot of healing buff modifier.
Agree to disagree. Tooltip entropy and soul trap hit 5.4k/s to vigor's 3.4. No rally/momentum heal means if you cancel their vigor, they're walking stationary hp numbers even through their resistances.1 -
Aedaryl✭✭✭✭✭
✭DocFrost72 wrote: »DocFrost72 wrote: »Seeing a lot of misinformation here. Echoing got buffed 85%, resolving got buffed 42%. Echoing, despite being 85% stronger, ticks half as often. That results in less HPS than live, at a reduced cost.
From the other thread on this;DocFrost72 wrote: »I got excited seeing that 52k tooltip screenie someone took. So I went and, without changing my build AT ALL, got the before and afters.
Before:
After:
and for context since I'm not a hack, here's my character sheet (note; no major buffs at time of the sheet: no brutality or savagery):
Seems to me that it IS an 85% buff from the base value, as was stated. From what you have live on resolving though, you're discussing a very rough estimate of a 42% buff.
Anyone with a 52k screenshot wanna post their character sheet and list of buffs plox?
No?
Didn't think so.
Way I see it, it's a big buff to solo stamina players and a relative nerf to people using vigor to heal each other at purely HPS values. I see it as fine, considering the damage from the new entropy and soul trap alone will outstrip the new vigor.
This isn't fine because entropy and soul trap will never "outstrip" the new vigor.
Stamina non rollercloakblade build run almost capped resistances with a lot of healing buff modifier.
Agree to disagree. Tooltip entropy and soul trap hit 5.4k/s to vigor's 3.4. No rally/momentum heal means if you cancel their vigor, they're walking stationary hp numbers even through their resistances.
Where do you get 5.4k entropy and soul trap tooltips?0