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PvE Skills that are tested and completely dead. *Updated
Elric_Ashborn
✭✭✭
I started running PTS today to see just how bad the damage truly was, sadly I am a casual player so is my wife and my usual testing methods will have to be changed as she has moved on to... other games that are more friendly to casual players.
With that said this is the very short list (will be updating with more info) I -will- include skills found by the community if the following one condition are met. I may add more, but probably not.
Dragonknight (Magic)
~~
Sorcerer (Magic)
~~
Templar (Magic)
~~
Psijic Order
~~
I'd be really interested to see the list you guys have so we could have something for casual players to go to. Also to see just how extensive the dead skill list truly is. I agree that the term "dead" is way overused. That is why I want you to explain why it's dead. I'm not a meta chaser, nor do I care. What I do care is wasted any more time and effort learning skills that are totally encompassed. Thank you.
Edited by Elric_Ashborn on July 14, 2019 5:44PM With that said this is the very short list (will be updating with more info) I -will- include skills found by the community if the following one condition are met. I may add more, but probably not.
- There is absolutely no reason at all in PvE to slot the skill, slightly disregarding passives. Unless of course that is the only means to trigger the passive. Meaning it has to truly be dead.
Dragonknight (Magic)
Eruption - Lets start by breaking down our first move.
-70% Movement speed: Completely non impact full. As the staggeringly small 5m radius on this ability ensures that nearly every NPC and boss in this game will almost never experience this effect. The longest out of a dozen NPCs ranging from Gargoyles, Spiders, Vampires, Bandits were the spiders at a whopping 2.02 seconds. That was due to it's feeding. It would work to keep reapplying save the very next reason why this skill is dead.
Cost: This move almost cost a staggering 6K! (5670 to be exact) to my recollection outside of purge this is the most expensive move to date. You -are not- spamming this move, nor are you reapplying it- which you will be doing all the time due to it's 5m radius.
DPS: Don't be fooled by it's timer not one thing in this game is going to sit there the entire duration of this ability. There is no way to stun them to ensure it ether. You will not get the entirety of the DPS in the tooltip. It is simply not possible. With that said right now EVERY area of effect I tested parsed higher just because of the cost and radius of the area of effect.
Answer: Slot any other Earthen Heart move for the passives, and -any- other skill in this game will out DPS this move. Due to a combination of factors. Nobody sits there for that long in one area, being one of the most (if not the most) expensive moves in the game. You can find probably a dozen if you reach over class lines that outdo this ability in every possible way.
-70% Movement speed: Completely non impact full. As the staggeringly small 5m radius on this ability ensures that nearly every NPC and boss in this game will almost never experience this effect. The longest out of a dozen NPCs ranging from Gargoyles, Spiders, Vampires, Bandits were the spiders at a whopping 2.02 seconds. That was due to it's feeding. It would work to keep reapplying save the very next reason why this skill is dead.
Cost: This move almost cost a staggering 6K! (5670 to be exact) to my recollection outside of purge this is the most expensive move to date. You -are not- spamming this move, nor are you reapplying it- which you will be doing all the time due to it's 5m radius.
DPS: Don't be fooled by it's timer not one thing in this game is going to sit there the entire duration of this ability. There is no way to stun them to ensure it ether. You will not get the entirety of the DPS in the tooltip. It is simply not possible. With that said right now EVERY area of effect I tested parsed higher just because of the cost and radius of the area of effect.
Answer: Slot any other Earthen Heart move for the passives, and -any- other skill in this game will out DPS this move. Due to a combination of factors. Nobody sits there for that long in one area, being one of the most (if not the most) expensive moves in the game. You can find probably a dozen if you reach over class lines that outdo this ability in every possible way.
~~
Sorcerer (Magic)
Twilight Tormentor - This one is a bit of an easy no brainier. Outside of the ill informed this Skill should not be slotted for any reason what so ever. Lets break it down...
Notes: Unlike literally any other skill in this game this morph -only- does DPS... and takes two skills slots (one on each bar) to achieve this. Add to that it's actually a single target damage move. Combine that with the inner workings of the pet. The fact that it has about a 2.5 ~ 3 second delay per hit. On PTS with testing on a dummy, and considering real world usage this skill achieves the prestigious title of lowest DPS skill in the game by far. As mentioned the sole purpose of this morph was just DPS. It is not only outmatched, but it's outmatched by some base level unmorphed skills in the game. To make matters even worse that was with 99% uptime with curse and special ability. Taking no less then THREE skill slots to achieve and (much to pet haters dismay) the ability does actually have a pretty short rotation. Every 6 seconds curse, then every 12 SP attack.
Does it get any worse? Why yes, yes it does. On top of all that one thing I realized mid testing was the damage falls off! Yes on top of being the lowest possible DPS move in the game, it takes a 53% hit once a target is below 50%. All while earning the very rare and prestigious award to being the skills that can be killed. It does not take hit's like the Clannfear, it tends to remain by your side.
I could go on, but this move should not be slotted for any reason, ever, for any build.
[All other Pets Go Here] - I actually plan to fill out this, but long story short - pets no longer provide enough sustain, they are not even good enough for a supplement to healer. They are some of if not thee worst DPS according to math. These abilities are it folks, if you want something that does worse damage the [X] this is as low as it goes.
Answer: Will probably be the toughest one yet, I've heard people say "well just slot the new dot/s" but that answer falls apart the second you realize that is what everybody else can do. But for now there is nothing for you pet-sorcs. My apologies on ZoS behalf. For now you have to join the masses and learn rotations.
Notes: Unlike literally any other skill in this game this morph -only- does DPS... and takes two skills slots (one on each bar) to achieve this. Add to that it's actually a single target damage move. Combine that with the inner workings of the pet. The fact that it has about a 2.5 ~ 3 second delay per hit. On PTS with testing on a dummy, and considering real world usage this skill achieves the prestigious title of lowest DPS skill in the game by far. As mentioned the sole purpose of this morph was just DPS. It is not only outmatched, but it's outmatched by some base level unmorphed skills in the game. To make matters even worse that was with 99% uptime with curse and special ability. Taking no less then THREE skill slots to achieve and (much to pet haters dismay) the ability does actually have a pretty short rotation. Every 6 seconds curse, then every 12 SP attack.
Does it get any worse? Why yes, yes it does. On top of all that one thing I realized mid testing was the damage falls off! Yes on top of being the lowest possible DPS move in the game, it takes a 53% hit once a target is below 50%. All while earning the very rare and prestigious award to being the skills that can be killed. It does not take hit's like the Clannfear, it tends to remain by your side.
I could go on, but this move should not be slotted for any reason, ever, for any build.
[All other Pets Go Here] - I actually plan to fill out this, but long story short - pets no longer provide enough sustain, they are not even good enough for a supplement to healer. They are some of if not thee worst DPS according to math. These abilities are it folks, if you want something that does worse damage the [X] this is as low as it goes.
Answer: Will probably be the toughest one yet, I've heard people say "well just slot the new dot/s" but that answer falls apart the second you realize that is what everybody else can do. But for now there is nothing for you pet-sorcs. My apologies on ZoS behalf. For now you have to join the masses and learn rotations.
~~
Templar (Magic)
Dark Flare - This is an interesting one, while it actually got a 4% buff it's actually pretty straight forward.
Notes: - Unlike other abilities you stop to do this one, meaning outside of its extra effects which we will get to in a sec, it's pretty straight forward. Does this move do more damage then [x]? if the answer is no, then there is absolutely no reason to slot it over the other.... and it doesn't. It doesn't do the worst damage but it is far from the best, and you really should be doing anything else. As for the healing debuff that is for PvP. I have never found a use for it, and can be obtained other ways.
This move has earned the "should not be slotted for any reason, ever, for any build" in PvE award.
Notes: - Unlike other abilities you stop to do this one, meaning outside of its extra effects which we will get to in a sec, it's pretty straight forward. Does this move do more damage then [x]? if the answer is no, then there is absolutely no reason to slot it over the other.... and it doesn't. It doesn't do the worst damage but it is far from the best, and you really should be doing anything else. As for the healing debuff that is for PvP. I have never found a use for it, and can be obtained other ways.
This move has earned the "should not be slotted for any reason, ever, for any build" in PvE award.
~~
Psijic Order
Mend Wounds (All Morphs)
Notes: Due to the nature of targeting in this game it is simply impossible to use this in any reliable way in any shape or form. You going to target your ally in that group of a dozen NPCs? Well, that's not the end of it. It also heals now for just about the worst heal in the game. Not to mention all while dropping your DPS, Tanking, and healing build efficiency in turn.
This move has earned the "should not be slotted for any reason, ever, for any build" in PvE award.
Answer: Well first the way we target has to be fixed, that or as others have pointed out this skill needs an entire rebuild. It's especially bad because it's pretty far down the tree.
Notes: Due to the nature of targeting in this game it is simply impossible to use this in any reliable way in any shape or form. You going to target your ally in that group of a dozen NPCs? Well, that's not the end of it. It also heals now for just about the worst heal in the game. Not to mention all while dropping your DPS, Tanking, and healing build efficiency in turn.
This move has earned the "should not be slotted for any reason, ever, for any build" in PvE award.
Answer: Well first the way we target has to be fixed, that or as others have pointed out this skill needs an entire rebuild. It's especially bad because it's pretty far down the tree.
~~
I'd be really interested to see the list you guys have so we could have something for casual players to go to. Also to see just how extensive the dead skill list truly is. I agree that the term "dead" is way overused. That is why I want you to explain why it's dead. I'm not a meta chaser, nor do I care. What I do care is wasted any more time and effort learning skills that are totally encompassed. Thank you.
20
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validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭*Obligatory this is week 1 of the PTS reminderEU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade6 -
Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭*Obligatory there is no way they are going to fix this in time post rebuttal.
That said, some moves are simple as changing the damage formulas to take into account the low area of effect range. Which quite frankly this patch I don't think was considered at all.
Others like the Pet-Sorc and Dark Flare will require different mindsets.11 -
Razorback174✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »*Obligatory this is week 1 of the PTS reminder
Most changes end up sticking around through the entire PTS, minus some minor tweaking on numbers here or there. If it's here, it's likely going live.
The only time I've ever seen anything with a severe overhaul/rollback during PTS were the shields with cast time in Murkmire.20 -
Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭Razorback174 wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »*Obligatory this is week 1 of the PTS reminder
Most changes end up sticking around through the entire PTS, minus some minor tweaking on numbers here or there. If it's here, it's likely going live.
The only time I've ever seen anything with a severe overhaul/rollback during PTS were the shields with cast time in Murkmire.
Glad someone said it, I've been around since Morrowind... and they have never in my recollection not gone through with PTS changes outside of slight tweaks. I don't understand where this new crowd is coming from.6 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Elric_Ashborn wrote: »Razorback174 wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »*Obligatory this is week 1 of the PTS reminder
Most changes end up sticking around through the entire PTS, minus some minor tweaking on numbers here or there. If it's here, it's likely going live.
The only time I've ever seen anything with a severe overhaul/rollback during PTS were the shields with cast time in Murkmire.
Glad someone said it, I've been around since Morrowind... and they have never in my recollection not gone through with PTS changes outside of slight tweaks. I don't understand where this new crowd is coming from.
Exactly, mechanics take a bit if coding. Values can be done overnight.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
PRX and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does it count if I've never seen anyone use that spider web skill in the year I have been playing.0 -
SirLeeMinion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Werewolf. Frankly I'm not testing this one - it's obvious from the changes. WW was already out-parsed by standard builds, it's only real advantages were the resistances and easy access to mid-tier DPS for solo play, those with higher ping, and those who had trouble with rotations.
They don't revert changes. Even the mighty outcry against shield cast times, the only "they really listened..", resulted in nerfs that continue with this update. I expect they will reduce guild trader bids from ten to three or so, as that was likely their intended number anyway (ten is so foolish, it has to be an opening bid rather than an expected end point). But I digress... Aside from home decorators, crown store test runs, theory crafting, and those rushing for first clears, the PTS is for suckers. They. Do. Not. Listen.validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »*Obligatory this is week 1 of the PTS reminder
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Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭SirLeeMinion wrote: »Werewolf. Frankly I'm not testing this one - it's obvious from the changes. WW was already out-parsed by standard builds, it's only real advantages were the resistances and easy access to mid-tier DPS for solo play, those with higher ping, and those who had trouble with rotations.
They don't revert changes. Even the mighty outcry against shield cast times, the only "they really listened..", resulted in nerfs that continue with this update. I expect they will reduce guild trader bids from ten to three or so, as that was likely their intended number anyway (ten is so foolish, it has to be an opening bid rather than an expected end point). But I digress... Aside from home decorators, crown store test runs, theory crafting, and those rushing for first clears, the PTS is for suckers. They. Do. Not. Listen.validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »*Obligatory this is week 1 of the PTS reminder
Werewolf is a tough one, not sure I'm willing to call a complete dead skill though. As it's utility does provide a 15% increase bare minimum... I'm not sure if it will ever qualify due to that.SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »Caltrops. at 600ish per tick, it is not worth having on the bar in PvE
My old stamina build had this at about 2,100 a tick, maxed out. -60%~ does put the damage in the bit of a pickle. The 50% snare is useless in PvE. Yeah probably not worth slotting in PvE. Then again it is found by doing PvP related activities. Is it good for PvP? I truly can't say.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭I think we have a rework on class AOE dots so they are still worthy. I feel ZOS want us to play different setups on trash and on bosses but... did they think about console players? PC have addons to cope with that. This is not wow, or lotro, where you can put as many skills as you want in your bars and choose depending on the fight. We have limited slots and cant put both ST and AOE dots there.
I feel pets also need a rework, an important one. There are two ways in my opinion: either make pets powerful enough to be worthy to spend two slots on them, or make them single slot so you can put them in line with the other skills (and ofc dont dissapear when bar swap). They´re called "free" dots, i find an easy way of balancing: let´s say we have dots at 4k DPS. Put pets at 2k. Either you choose to do more damage, or save one GCD each 12 secs or so. I´m talking here about 1 skill slot pets, that is.0 -
Nevasca✭✭✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »Does it count if I've never seen anyone use that spider web skill in the year I have been playing.
Trap web is used a lot in trials for bow/bow builds, the synergy does a lot of damage, and it also helps maintain uptime on LokkestiizEdited by Nevasca on July 13, 2019 7:21AM3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don’t know if Mend Wounds qualifies as a PvE skill but it’s more than dead. Officially killed with the Elsweyr changes made to it.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Razorback174 wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »*Obligatory this is week 1 of the PTS reminder
Most changes end up sticking around through the entire PTS, minus some minor tweaking on numbers here or there. If it's here, it's likely going live.
The only time I've ever seen anything with a severe overhaul/rollback during PTS were the shields with cast time in Murkmire.
Shields in murkmire and changes to incap are the only major pts achievements i have in mind aswell.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Don’t know if Mend Wounds qualifies as a PvE skill but it’s more than dead. Officially killed with the Elsweyr changes made to it.
It's not in the newest patch notes, it's not in there. If your talking about this update I was easily able to achieve 3K per tick. Not to mention it's the only other way to trigger spell orb that I am aware. 3K per tick is actually good healing now, as all healing is nerfed. What about this ability is completely useless?
People especially vet players need to adjust their thinking on what good DPS is now. As almost all of my build witnessed at the very minimum a 10~15K hit.
0 -
soynegroyque✭✭✭Razorback174 wrote: »validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »*Obligatory this is week 1 of the PTS reminder
Most changes end up sticking around through the entire PTS, minus some minor tweaking on numbers here or there. If it's here, it's likely going live.
The only time I've ever seen anything with a severe overhaul/rollback during PTS were the shields with cast time in Murkmire.
Shields in murkmire and changes to incap are the only major pts achievements i have in mind aswell.
And even then they decided to keep the silence anyway.2 -
Juhasow✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elric_Ashborn wrote: »sadly I am a casual player so is my wife and my usual testing methods will have to be changed as she has moved on to... other games that are more friendly to casual players...
More casual friendly then ESO ? Wuuut ?
0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elric_Ashborn wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »Don’t know if Mend Wounds qualifies as a PvE skill but it’s more than dead. Officially killed with the Elsweyr changes made to it.
It's not in the newest patch notes, it's not in there. If your talking about this update I was easily able to achieve 3K per tick. Not to mention it's the only other way to trigger spell orb that I am aware. 3K per tick is actually good healing now, as all healing is nerfed. What about this ability is completely useless?
People especially vet players need to adjust their thinking on what good DPS is now. As almost all of my build witnessed at the very minimum a 10~15K hit.
Single target healing with a horrible targeting won't make up for the healing changes in U23. And Mend Wounds' light attack is just awful.
I opened a thread with suggestions on how to make Mend Wounds a real replacement for the Grand Healing / Energy Orb nerfs: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/484426/mend-wounds-rework-this-skill-to-compensate-for-the-changes-made-to-grand-healing-necrotic-orb#latestPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Lord_Eomer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »Caltrops. at 600ish per tick, it is not worth having on the bar in PvE
Caltrops are almost doing same damage as destro wall of elements,
Hence magicka is forced to slot it for VMA staff!0 -
highkingnm✭✭✭✭The change to tormentor was just ridiculous. Petsorc was always about a DPS loss for survivability gain, with the tormentor morph letting you lean more to DPS. The rotation is fairly easy, but I never come in the top half of my raid groups on petsorc, but he was fun to use and, importantly, still hit good numbers. Without tormentor he’s screwed. It’ll be the scamp only, except that pisses people off in some trials due to stun meaning I have to bring spare gear and extra skills for when I can’t run a pet and, what’s this, I suddenly have a normal magsorc. Petsorc build is dead and I am so annoyed. Tormentor going from high DPS to wet noodle is a joke given it takes two slots. With the nerfs to wall of elements as well, my petsorc may as well prepare for retirement now. Two vital top damage abilities nerfed into the ground.2 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Well, im sure there will be a petless sorc build that will do aceptable DPS (although probably few survability). Or maybe a petsorc with just scamp.
The thing is, you should be starting farming other gear and leave necropotence stored at bank or mule.0 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am actually okay with the Caltrops nerf, there were so many people that complained about having to do PVP to get a PVE skill and considering how important it was for PVE dps that was just kind of bad for everyone.
Particularly since deadly cloak for a buff and its a simple switch for most classes.
There is a lot of abilities that are being dropped and moved around with the recent changes.
I am really not happy with Pet Sorcs and Eruption though I agree.
I managed to get good DPS out of my MagDK even with Eruption, but my issue that it has an awful animation that I keep double casting it in 300 ping and blowing my mana bar, I need it to be smoother.
My Pet sorc got completely guttered I lost a full 10K dps, Its real dead.2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »Caltrops. at 600ish per tick, it is not worth having on the bar in PvE
Caltrops are almost doing same damage as destro wall of elements,
Hence magicka is forced to slot it for VMA staff!
Lol no, wall does 1500 tooltip on my pts mag toons, caltrops is like 700-800.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lord_Eomer wrote: »SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »Caltrops. at 600ish per tick, it is not worth having on the bar in PvE
Caltrops are almost doing same damage as destro wall of elements,
Hence magicka is forced to slot it for VMA staff!
Lol no, wall does 1500 tooltip on my pts mag toons, caltrops is like 700-800.
Isn’t Caltrops ticking twice as fast?PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lord_Eomer wrote: »SaucyMcSauceface wrote: »Caltrops. at 600ish per tick, it is not worth having on the bar in PvE
Caltrops are almost doing same damage as destro wall of elements,
Hence magicka is forced to slot it for VMA staff!
Lol no, wall does 1500 tooltip on my pts mag toons, caltrops is like 700-800.
Isn’t Caltrops ticking twice as fast?
lol no
i use the same toons on both my mag sorc and stam sorc, only the live vs pts changed.
mag sorc
live wall-
2479 over 8 seconds- 19832 total damage
pts wall-
1830 over 12 seconds- 21960 total damage
stam sorc caltrops-
6821 initial hit + 2187 over 12 seconds = 33065 total damage
pts caltrops-
806 over 10 seconds = 8060 damage.
Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on July 13, 2019 11:13AM5 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Lightspeedflashb14_ESO Ah, I somehow had the impression Caltrops would tick every 0.5s.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Littlebluelizard wrote: »Red_Feather wrote: »Does it count if I've never seen anyone use that spider web skill in the year I have been playing.
Trap web is used a lot in trials for bow/bow builds, the synergy does a lot of damage, and it also helps maintain uptime on Lokkestiiz
That is cool. I haven't done many trials. Because the web skill is unlocked so early in playing I wonder why I've never seen it in early groups.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Red_Feather wrote: »Littlebluelizard wrote: »Red_Feather wrote: »Does it count if I've never seen anyone use that spider web skill in the year I have been playing.
Trap web is used a lot in trials for bow/bow builds, the synergy does a lot of damage, and it also helps maintain uptime on Lokkestiiz
That is cool. I haven't done many trials. Because the web skill is unlocked so early in playing I wonder why I've never seen it in early groups.
you will start to see it more now, it has impact damage, that is about 75% more damage, which will increase the use of it, it does about the same amount of damage as sub assault now and provides a synergy.2 -
karekiz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Well, im sure there will be a petless sorc build that will do aceptable DPS (although probably few survability). Or maybe a petsorc with just scamp.
The thing is, you should be starting farming other gear and leave necropotence stored at bank or mule.
Or just re-roll stam <Bonus if you roll necro> and have more healing/dps/support than a pet sorc.1 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »*Obligatory this is week 1 of the PTS reminder
“Oh, really?”, said the wood elf.
1 -
Elric_Ashborn✭✭✭Like I said, I'd be willing to call Caltrops dead, but I was always under the impression it was meant for PvP. But stam users are still required to put Vigor on. So ZoS stance on this is very mixed. I'll update the skill list with this and Mend Wounds, as trying it myself has proven these two skills should not be slotted for any reason, for any build, in PvE.0