Over Performing List

Itzmichi · July 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Let's start with:
Eclipse
Soul Assault
Soul Trap
Turn Evil
Entropy
Onslaught
Corrosive Armor.
DBoS

The same people that are against nerfs are against improving classes other than their own. That's bad...

So a top ten list without any informations, reasons, math, video and or calculation? Good way to waste my time.

Lord_Sando · July 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Let's start with:
Eclipse
Soul Assault
Soul Trap
Turn Evil
Entropy
Onslaught its fine
Corrosive Armor.
DBoS

I corrected your list.............

-A Stam Sorc

Ulfgarde · July 2019

Stamnecro is extremely broken next patch

ProzTh3Almighty · July 2019

Ulfgarde wrote: »

Stamnecro is extremely broken next patch

Why? Pve or pvp?

ProzTh3Almighty · July 2019

Resolving vigor for solo is well appreciated! From a pvp perspective. If its hurting your group composition then im sorry! I wish i didnt need it. I wish i had better options or felt ok stacking health recovery but i view it as a carry... i would like to keep resolving vigor as it is even an make health recovery be effected by battlespirit for a 50% reduction! Also the heavy armor bonus to healing should only be healing from others an not from yourself in pvp! An no class should have major mending! Muah love you guys!

idk · July 2019

UppGRAYxDD wrote: »

Nerf these nerf lists...

Especially threads calling for nerfs but lack any justification beyond someone thinking they are overperforming because they die to them often.

Wihuri · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Entropy and Soul Trap are fine.

Ok. This is soul trap on a CP-build that has defense and sustain.

Here's a no-CP variant that has more sustain.

You can cheese way higher for sure, but these are the kind of values you can get on a build that you can actually use. Both tooltips are with food, minor and major brutality (stam dk). No procs needed.

kaithuzar · July 2019

I want to propose swapping with stamina.
I’ll change all resto abilities to stamina & put them under dual wield skill line, in exchange vigor gets swapped to magicka.

You can have 5, or 10 or however many “sorry I didn’t fit the bill” healing skills & it won’t matter, or you can have 1 healing skill that works; which would you choose?
Should be obvious...

kaithuzar · July 2019

Wihuri wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Entropy and Soul Trap are fine.

Ok. This is soul trap on a CP-build that has defense and sustain.

Here's a no-CP variant that has more sustain.

You can cheese way higher for sure, but these are the kind of values you can get on a build that you can actually use. Both tooltips are with food, minor and major brutality (stam dk). No procs needed.

Why are you running magicka abilities on a stamdk? Really counting on that 16 secs of penetration to cast your 1 magicka skill?

killingspreeb16_ESO · July 2019

kaithuzar wrote: »

I want to propose swapping with stamina.
I’ll change all resto abilities to stamina & put them under dual wield skill line, in exchange vigor gets swapped to magicka.

You can have 5, or 10 or however many “sorry I didn’t fit the bill” healing skills & it won’t matter, or you can have 1 healing skill that works; which would you choose?
Should be obvious...

Because it would make sense right?let's ignore all the difference from stamina to magika.
As someone who play both magika/stamina i don't find the need to complain about vigor on my mageblade for example since i got shield,healing in my classkit(nerfed but still there)and now if i want the resto staff got a nice heal aswell,on my stamblade/sDK i got vigor/rally and that's it,not like there is much to choose.

If you want to go from that perspective then let's give stamina all the shield or class heal like breath of life etc.

Like really how about see the difference from 2 different playstyle instead of biased perspective.

Wihuri · July 2019

kaithuzar wrote: »

Why are you running magicka abilities on a stamdk? Really counting on that 16 secs of penetration to cast your 1 magicka skill?

The ability does physical damage if your weapon damage and stamina is higher than your spell damage and magicka. It even says so in the tooltip.

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I want to propose swapping with stamina.
I’ll change all resto abilities to stamina & put them under dual wield skill line, in exchange vigor gets swapped to magicka.

You can have 5, or 10 or however many “sorry I didn’t fit the bill” healing skills & it won’t matter, or you can have 1 healing skill that works; which would you choose?
Should be obvious...

Because it would make sense right?let's ignore all the difference from stamina to magika.
As someone who play both magika/stamina i don't find the need to complain about vigor on my mageblade for example since i got shield,healing in my classkit(nerfed but still there)and now if i want the resto staff got a nice heal aswell,on my stamblade/sDK i got vigor/rally and that's it,not like there is much to choose.

If you want to go from that perspective then let's give stamina all the shield or class heal like breath of life etc.

Like really how about see the difference from 2 different playstyle instead of biased perspective.

You know, we also want class differenciaton. The thing is, there are some vital points on each character that we want covered the best as possible: Sustain and Healing. To me, both aspects should be taken in general skills and class skills would complement, not the opposite. This way, if one class skills get nerfed, you still have the other one.

Let´s put the Templar example you did. They have a good burst heal, HtD/BoL. They don´t need a general heal skill. Let´s put another example: Sorcerer. They have a good burst heal, Matriarch. Now, if you nerf a healign skill the way it will be done this patch, suddenly a class get spoiled, and have to cope with bad solutions (use Resto staff, which can be okish for PvP but horrible for PvE, use mediocre channeled heals like Dark Exchange, or use health recovery on crits meaning no reliable heals and not on demand, like Power Surge). Sorcerer didn´t need a general skill but now they will. Can you see it?

Either ZOS has a great balance on these kind of skills, or it´s much easier to do what they do with Stamina classes: a great healing skill that everyone can use. Sure, some classes will receive even more healing tools if they would need it, like DK´s rally or Warden´s healing skill tree (my Warden just slots VIgor), but at least the main healing you got covered.

Apart from that, sure, let´s give each class the identity you want. I´m fairly sure this patch will actually go against class identity, making many general mag skills so strong and many class skills so spoiled that every class will have to use it.
I didn´t hear you complain about this, i guess you don´t care about class identity when it´s a class you don´t play, do you?

MartiniDaniels · July 2019

Wihuri wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

Why are you running magicka abilities on a stamdk? Really counting on that 16 secs of penetration to cast your 1 magicka skill?

The ability does physical damage if your weapon damage and stamina is higher than your spell damage and magicka. It even says so in the tooltip.

But you need to run trash set for it. Sure you can one bar it, but still... 45k tooltip means 15k damage in CP.. 3k damage once in 2 seconds.. not sure if that is worth sacrificing 3+2 slots for it.

killingspreeb16_ESO · July 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I want to propose swapping with stamina.
I’ll change all resto abilities to stamina & put them under dual wield skill line, in exchange vigor gets swapped to magicka.

You can have 5, or 10 or however many “sorry I didn’t fit the bill” healing skills & it won’t matter, or you can have 1 healing skill that works; which would you choose?
Should be obvious...

Because it would make sense right?let's ignore all the difference from stamina to magika.
As someone who play both magika/stamina i don't find the need to complain about vigor on my mageblade for example since i got shield,healing in my classkit(nerfed but still there)and now if i want the resto staff got a nice heal aswell,on my stamblade/sDK i got vigor/rally and that's it,not like there is much to choose.

If you want to go from that perspective then let's give stamina all the shield or class heal like breath of life etc.

Like really how about see the difference from 2 different playstyle instead of biased perspective.

You know, we also want class differenciaton. The thing is, there are some vital points on each character that we want covered the best as possible: Sustain and Healing. To me, both aspects should be taken in general skills and class skills would complement, not the opposite. This way, if one class skills get nerfed, you still have the other one.

Let´s put the Templar example you did. They have a good burst heal, HtD/BoL. They don´t need a general heal skill. Let´s put another example: Sorcerer. They have a good burst heal, Matriarch. Now, if you nerf a healign skill the way it will be done this patch, suddenly a class get spoiled, and have to cope with bad solutions (use Resto staff, which can be okish for PvP but horrible for PvE, use mediocre channeled heals like Dark Exchange, or use health recovery on crits meaning no reliable heals and not on demand, like Power Surge). Sorcerer didn´t need a general skill but now they will. Can you see it?

Either ZOS has a great balance on these kind of skills, or it´s much easier to do what they do with Stamina classes: a great healing skill that everyone can use. Sure, some classes will receive even more healing tools if they would need it, like DK´s rally or Warden´s healing skill tree (my Warden just slots VIgor), but at least the main healing you got covered.

Apart from that, sure, let´s give each class the identity you want. I´m fairly sure this patch will actually go against class identity, making many general mag skills so strong and many class skills so spoiled that every class will have to use it.
I didn´t hear you complain about this, i guess you don´t care about class identity when it´s a class you don´t play, do you?

What are you talking about lol.

He was making a bad comparison"we give you the resto staff skill line (under dual wield)for vigor but we will actually keep all the good thing magika has to offer" Ofc even the resto staff skillline because why not.
100%nice and fair trade and not totally biased perspective.

Not sure how you get the idea that i want class omogenization when even as mageblade player(one of my main class) i didn't want that kind of change to wing that removed every flavor from that ability.I even also suggested a better(from my perspesctive)change for it.
And please stop talking about class identity when one of my main class is losing identity(and is getting weaker)every update.

You should read better what i wrote next time without assuming things.

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I want to propose swapping with stamina.
I’ll change all resto abilities to stamina & put them under dual wield skill line, in exchange vigor gets swapped to magicka.

You can have 5, or 10 or however many “sorry I didn’t fit the bill” healing skills & it won’t matter, or you can have 1 healing skill that works; which would you choose?
Should be obvious...

Because it would make sense right?let's ignore all the difference from stamina to magika.
As someone who play both magika/stamina i don't find the need to complain about vigor on my mageblade for example since i got shield,healing in my classkit(nerfed but still there)and now if i want the resto staff got a nice heal aswell,on my stamblade/sDK i got vigor/rally and that's it,not like there is much to choose.

If you want to go from that perspective then let's give stamina all the shield or class heal like breath of life etc.

Like really how about see the difference from 2 different playstyle instead of biased perspective.

You know, we also want class differenciaton. The thing is, there are some vital points on each character that we want covered the best as possible: Sustain and Healing. To me, both aspects should be taken in general skills and class skills would complement, not the opposite. This way, if one class skills get nerfed, you still have the other one.

Let´s put the Templar example you did. They have a good burst heal, HtD/BoL. They don´t need a general heal skill. Let´s put another example: Sorcerer. They have a good burst heal, Matriarch. Now, if you nerf a healign skill the way it will be done this patch, suddenly a class get spoiled, and have to cope with bad solutions (use Resto staff, which can be okish for PvP but horrible for PvE, use mediocre channeled heals like Dark Exchange, or use health recovery on crits meaning no reliable heals and not on demand, like Power Surge). Sorcerer didn´t need a general skill but now they will. Can you see it?

Either ZOS has a great balance on these kind of skills, or it´s much easier to do what they do with Stamina classes: a great healing skill that everyone can use. Sure, some classes will receive even more healing tools if they would need it, like DK´s rally or Warden´s healing skill tree (my Warden just slots VIgor), but at least the main healing you got covered.

Apart from that, sure, let´s give each class the identity you want. I´m fairly sure this patch will actually go against class identity, making many general mag skills so strong and many class skills so spoiled that every class will have to use it.
I didn´t hear you complain about this, i guess you don´t care about class identity when it´s a class you don´t play, do you?

What are you talking about lol.

He was making a bad comparison"we give you the resto staff skill line (under dual wield)for vigor but we will actually keep all the good thing magika has to offer" Ofc even the resto staff skillline because why not.
100%nice and fair trade and not totally biased perspective.

Not sure how you get the idea that i want class omogenization when even as mageblade player(one of my main class) i didn't want that kind of change to wing that removed every flavor from that ability.I even also suggested a better(from my perspesctive)change for it.
And please stop talking about class identity when one of my main class is losing identity(and is getting weaker)every update.

You should read better what i wrote next time without assuming things.

What i mean is that looks like devs have issues bringing balance between classes, and there are 2 crucial aspects every class should have more or less well covered: sustain and selfhealing.

killingspreeb16_ESO · July 2019

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

Saril_Durzam wrote: »

killingspreeb16_ESO wrote: »

kaithuzar wrote: »

I want to propose swapping with stamina.
I’ll change all resto abilities to stamina & put them under dual wield skill line, in exchange vigor gets swapped to magicka.

You can have 5, or 10 or however many “sorry I didn’t fit the bill” healing skills & it won’t matter, or you can have 1 healing skill that works; which would you choose?
Should be obvious...

Because it would make sense right?let's ignore all the difference from stamina to magika.
As someone who play both magika/stamina i don't find the need to complain about vigor on my mageblade for example since i got shield,healing in my classkit(nerfed but still there)and now if i want the resto staff got a nice heal aswell,on my stamblade/sDK i got vigor/rally and that's it,not like there is much to choose.

If you want to go from that perspective then let's give stamina all the shield or class heal like breath of life etc.

Like really how about see the difference from 2 different playstyle instead of biased perspective.

You know, we also want class differenciaton. The thing is, there are some vital points on each character that we want covered the best as possible: Sustain and Healing. To me, both aspects should be taken in general skills and class skills would complement, not the opposite. This way, if one class skills get nerfed, you still have the other one.

Let´s put the Templar example you did. They have a good burst heal, HtD/BoL. They don´t need a general heal skill. Let´s put another example: Sorcerer. They have a good burst heal, Matriarch. Now, if you nerf a healign skill the way it will be done this patch, suddenly a class get spoiled, and have to cope with bad solutions (use Resto staff, which can be okish for PvP but horrible for PvE, use mediocre channeled heals like Dark Exchange, or use health recovery on crits meaning no reliable heals and not on demand, like Power Surge). Sorcerer didn´t need a general skill but now they will. Can you see it?

Either ZOS has a great balance on these kind of skills, or it´s much easier to do what they do with Stamina classes: a great healing skill that everyone can use. Sure, some classes will receive even more healing tools if they would need it, like DK´s rally or Warden´s healing skill tree (my Warden just slots VIgor), but at least the main healing you got covered.

Apart from that, sure, let´s give each class the identity you want. I´m fairly sure this patch will actually go against class identity, making many general mag skills so strong and many class skills so spoiled that every class will have to use it.
I didn´t hear you complain about this, i guess you don´t care about class identity when it´s a class you don´t play, do you?

What are you talking about lol.

He was making a bad comparison"we give you the resto staff skill line (under dual wield)for vigor but we will actually keep all the good thing magika has to offer" Ofc even the resto staff skillline because why not.
100%nice and fair trade and not totally biased perspective.

Not sure how you get the idea that i want class omogenization when even as mageblade player(one of my main class) i didn't want that kind of change to wing that removed every flavor from that ability.I even also suggested a better(from my perspesctive)change for it.
And please stop talking about class identity when one of my main class is losing identity(and is getting weaker)every update.

You should read better what i wrote next time without assuming things.

What i mean is that looks like devs have issues bringing balance between classes, and there are 2 crucial aspects every class should have more or less well covered: sustain and selfhealing.

But they are more or less,every magika class got a form of defense like healing/shield in class kit plus a weapon for it,resto staff might not be ideal for pve dps but is very good for pvp.
And every class get something for sustain aswell.
If anything asking things like give us "vigor magika" is going to make the game the same for all.

Stamina is forced on the 2h aswell if they want a burst heal otherwise why most player play with a 2h in pvp?
Then stamina got vigor that is free like any class ability that don't require a specific weapon,i never felt the need of vigor on my magika char and next patch if i want i can slot rapid regen aswell.

If you have a problem with pve healing for magika or just some magika classes then open a thread about it with some suggestion to how to make it better.

Saril_Durzam · July 2019

One thing that ESO marks is stam/magicka morphs. Many classes live on that. It wouldnt be bad that some general skills had such, so everyone wanted to lvl up its faction. Like Mages Guild for stamina classes.

TelvanniWizard · July 2019

brandonv516 wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Let's start with:
Eclipse
Soul Assault
Soul Trap
Turn Evil
Entropy

I thought Soul Assault got a heavy nerf. Costs more and a longer duration that leaves you more vulnerable with the potential need to cancel early.

It was completely destroyed. I've been using it since Homestead for both pve and pvp, and now it will be unuseable.

Vortigaunt · July 2019

Lord_Sando wrote: »

Let's start with:
Eclipse
Soul Assault
Soul Trap
Turn Evil
Entropy
Onslaught its fine
Corrosive Armor.
DBoS

I corrected your list.............

-A Stam Sorc

No it’s not. And as a stam sorc you should primarily know it isn’t since you’ll probably reach above 70%+ uptime on 100% penetration. If that’s fine in your eyes then idk, but there’s a reason people kite out of corrosive.

mzprx · July 2019

i'm sorry for silly questions, but what actually is that "magicka Vigor" you folks have mentioned here? just so i know what's being discussed..

thanks..

Emma_Overload · July 2019

Wihuri wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Entropy and Soul Trap are fine.

Ok. This is soul trap on a CP-build that has defense and sustain.

Here's a no-CP variant that has more sustain.

You can cheese way higher for sure, but these are the kind of values you can get on a build that you can actually use. Both tooltips are with food, minor and major brutality (stam dk). No procs needed.

The only to get those numbers on one of my builds would be to use the Oblivions Foe set, which is terrible for overall PvE DPS. Even if that tooltip was legit, it's not any more damage over time than my Tormentor under the current patch. In fact, I'm probably going to replace all my pet builds with DOT builds, so please don't nerf the DOTs!

Seraphayel · July 2019

mzprx wrote: »

i'm sorry for silly questions, but what actually is that "magicka Vigor" you folks have mentioned here? just so i know what's being discussed..

thanks..

Rapid Regeneration, a morph for the Restoration Staff Regeneration skill.

Wihuri · July 2019

Emma_Overload wrote: »

The only to get those numbers on one of my builds would be to use the Oblivions Foe set, which is terrible for overall PvE DPS. Even if that tooltip was legit, it's not any more damage over time than my Tormentor under the current patch. In fact, I'm probably going to replace all my pet builds with DOT builds, so please don't nerf the DOTs!

Oh, I don't care about PvE, but this dot is ridiculously strong for PvP. I also recently did a stamsorc build that has 40k consuming trap tooltip without any procs and no CP enabled. Also the fact that coupled with the new Onslaught that damage goes through all resistances. Then again vigor is overperforming so maybe this is not an issue. Hard to test non-CP PvP since not a lot of people are on PTS.

universal_wrath · July 2019

Vortigaunt wrote: »

Lord_Sando wrote: »

Let's start with:
Eclipse
Soul Assault
Soul Trap
Turn Evil
Entropy
Onslaught its fine
Corrosive Armor.
DBoS

I corrected your list.............

-A Stam Sorc

No it’s not. And as a stam sorc you should primarily know it isn’t since you’ll probably reach above 70%+ uptime on 100% penetration. If that’s fine in your eyes then idk, but there’s a reason people kite out of corrosive.

Not my fault that zos does not give my stam Sorc any class active skills/ulti that cost stam and does phyiscal dmg, instead of letting my class really 100% on weapon abilities. Now every weapons nerf is a stam sorc nerf. Stan sorc passive do not give it much in terms of surviavibility and dmg. Stam sorc is free kill in pvp, there only mean of surviavl currently is "speed" and that will be striped away next patch thanks to medium armor changes. Only class were it only uses 1-3 skills of of its own arsenal, only class to only benift of 7-8 out of 15 class passives.

SodanTok · July 2019

Wihuri wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

The only to get those numbers on one of my builds would be to use the Oblivions Foe set, which is terrible for overall PvE DPS. Even if that tooltip was legit, it's not any more damage over time than my Tormentor under the current patch. In fact, I'm probably going to replace all my pet builds with DOT builds, so please don't nerf the DOTs!

Oh, I don't care about PvE, but this dot is ridiculously strong for PvP. I also recently did a stamsorc build that has 40k consuming trap tooltip without any procs and no CP enabled. Also the fact that coupled with the new Onslaught that damage goes through all resistances. Then again vigor is overperforming so maybe this is not an issue. Hard to test non-CP PvP since not a lot of people are on PTS.

That DoT is exactly as strong as any other DoT.

Drdeath20 · July 2019

BoL is not a guranteed heal to the caster and as powerful as it is, vigors total healing is much greater.

Furthermore stamina has better inate defensive potential. More stamina means more time to sprint, block or dodge roll.

universal_wrath · July 2019

Drdeath20 wrote: »

BoL is not a guranteed heal to the caster and as powerful as it is, vigors total healing is much greater.

Furthermore stamina has better inate defensive potential. More stamina means more time to sprint, block or dodge roll.

Sprint, block, dodge roll only mean higher chance to kill you as you waste more and more stam leaving unable to break free in case of cc or unable to heal because it also cost stam as well. More you try your inate "defensive" potential, the more you are likely to rum out of resources quickly. Each play style has pros and cons, otherwise everyone would be runing same set up, class, builds, skills.

Stibbons · July 2019

2 hander ultimate is insanely OP.

ProzTh3Almighty · July 2019

Stibbons wrote: »

2 hander ultimate is insanely OP.

Its a little much, maybe 8 sec duration to penetration or 50% of the penetration value for 16 secs. Its harder to land on PTS because the animation is similar to the old Merciless resolve bow where if your opponent is paying attention and either cc breaks into dodge roll or dodges when they see the animation the dmg takes 400ms to land while the dodge mechanic starts before the animation so youll miss a stationary target then they dodge roll animate an your like ???
The issue with some of these cast times on ultimates is if used after a CC in a burst combo, anyone familiar with game mechanics will already have qued Break Free and roll dodge an the GCD on casted abilities means they have more time to react than you do to perform the abilities.
Currently if you Dizzy Swing someone into a Dawnbreaker with a animation cancel your applying the damage of DS at the end of the cast time, therefore the end of the GCD. While animation canceling the DBoS puts the dmg at the front of the next GCD. In essence backloading one ability into a front loaded ability. This combo has so many counters if you replace instant cast AOE DBoS,(hard to dodge out off) with a single target 400ms cast time ability such as Onslaught or Incap. By the time you end the initial GCD and begin the next with your ultimate the target has reacted to the first and has the ability to respond without a cast time(meaning their ability when qued applies its effect immediately at the beginning of their GCD) of their own reactionary defense ie. roll dodge/block/heal, mainly dodge roll therefore putting you at a disadvantage if you combo which just punishes you for being competent