Xvorg wrote: »

Magicka can build penetration much better than stam, just a passive for wearing 5 LA pieces. On top of that, just by having any destro staff you have an extra 10% penetration.

Stam cannot buil as much penetration as magicka and depends on wpn dmg and executes, the first one can be debuffed with the right setup, and the second one depends of certain conditions, while penetration is unrestricted.

While all of that is entirely true it has nothing to do with the fact that mag has vastly inferior executes. Also on live right now even a really good stamplar is on par with mSorc which is the highest mag. On PTS mag is horrifically difficult to play and on average pulling 10k less dps than Stam (excluding stamplar lol).

Xvorg wrote: »

Marteene wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Magicka can build penetration much better than stam, just a passive for wearing 5 LA pieces. On top of that, just by having any destro staff you have an extra 10% penetration.

Stam cannot buil as much penetration as magicka and depends on wpn dmg and executes, the first one can be debuffed with the right setup, and the second one depends of certain conditions, while penetration is unrestricted.

While all of that is entirely true it has nothing to do with the fact that mag has vastly inferior executes. Also on live right now even a really good stamplar is on par with mSorc which is the highest mag. On PTS mag is horrifically difficult to play and on average pulling 10k less dps than Stam (excluding stamplar lol).

If you give strong executes to magicka, which already have strong penetration what do you think it would happen? Stamina dies.

I don't think that's the idea. And that will affect PvP badly

Stamina is basically 10-20% or more ahead of most Magicka specs in PvE DPS, they’ll be fine. And PvP has the Stamina meta going on for... it feels like forever.

There’s no point why Magicka has zero execute abilities whereas Stamina has 3 (2h, DW, Bow) and 1 passive than increases ALL DW damage on low health targets.

That’s why I opened this thread some weeks ago, maybe you can join OP:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/482604/the-state-of-execute-abilities-and-why-magicka-dps-is-in-need-of-one/p1

Xvorg wrote: »

Marteene wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Magicka can build penetration much better than stam, just a passive for wearing 5 LA pieces. On top of that, just by having any destro staff you have an extra 10% penetration.

Stam cannot buil as much penetration as magicka and depends on wpn dmg and executes, the first one can be debuffed with the right setup, and the second one depends of certain conditions, while penetration is unrestricted.

While all of that is entirely true it has nothing to do with the fact that mag has vastly inferior executes. Also on live right now even a really good stamplar is on par with mSorc which is the highest mag. On PTS mag is horrifically difficult to play and on average pulling 10k less dps than Stam (excluding stamplar lol).

If you give strong executes to magicka, which already have strong penetration what do you think it would happen? Stamina dies.

I don't think that's the idea. And that will affect PvP badly

not at all. Magicka has more pen sure, but Stamina get more raw damage. My stam toons can easily get 3500 weapon damage (unbuffed) buffed close to 5000 weapon Damage. that's the trade off not executes.

The magDK used to have an execute. Well they patched it out, why nobody knows

Derra wrote: »

Xvorg wrote: »

Magicka can build penetration much better than stam, just a passive for wearing 5 LA pieces. On top of that, just by having any destro staff you have an extra 10% penetration.

Stam cannot buil as much penetration as magicka and depends on wpn dmg and executes, the first one can be debuffed with the right setup, and the second one depends of certain conditions, while penetration is unrestricted.

Destro staff penetration only works on destro staff abilities. Which makes the passive really not that great anymore considering how much of mags dmg is not based on the weapon.

even only on destro skills those 10% are nearly worthless, since they are calculated after all flat values of pen have been removed from the resistances.

18,2k -5280-3010-2106-4884-2000 (CP) = 1010 Resistance * 10% = 100 Pen
and thats without even adding Potl in the mix there.
so you see that 10% Pen for destrostaffs in actually pretty useless, ofc its a nice to have bonus on pen, but its not gona make a difference
against stacked trash it might be a bit better, since not every add has major or minor breah, or alkosh didnt hit it, but still weak
on a completly full resistance target its worth about 1,3k Pen (you prob still use Light armor)...which again aint much.

same problem goes for maces, which are also way too underperforming in PVE.
and even if the destro passive would count towards all magic dmg, its still way to weak for PVE.

Aedrion wrote: »

Can I just chime in here and mention that magicka builds are by-and-large ranged and stamina builds are by-and-large melee?

I don't think it's unbalanced to reward the risk of having to move into melee range or close the distance between you and your enemy with a stronger means of finishing the fight.

The range argument is always brought up and to some degree I agree. But the differences have become too huge to warrant this, especially in PvE. And even in PvP it’s melee builds that are dominating, not ranged builds.

There is no reason why Magicka builds don’t have access to any executes while Stamina has 4 different versions of execute skills available.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Aedrion wrote: »

Can I just chime in here and mention that magicka builds are by-and-large ranged and stamina builds are by-and-large melee?

I don't think it's unbalanced to reward the risk of having to move into melee range or close the distance between you and your enemy with a stronger means of finishing the fight.

The range argument is always brought up and to some degree I agree. But the differences have become too huge to warrant this, especially in PvE. And even in PvP it’s melee builds that are dominating, not ranged builds.

There is no reason why Magicka builds don’t have access to any executes while Stamina has 4 different versions of execute skills available.

Why be so absolute with 'no magicka executes whyy' when there is magblade execute, magplar execute, magnecro crit execute, magsorc execute with warden having bear execute.

You cannot go around talking 'magicka has no execute' while not counting these abilities while you continue to count the DW passive

You can't stack any of the magic executes like you can with dual wield and the bow, which can get up to 3, including the passive, on one target. Magic users just can't do that. Or even range Stam builds.

I wasnt disagreeing stamina (melee) executes arent better than magicka (ranged ones). But he literally said "There is no reason why Magicka builds don’t have access to any executes"

I would want those 'bad that he forgot them' executes on stamina a lot. Not like Poison Injection is doing any executing in PVP.

Xogath wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Aedrion wrote: »

Can I just chime in here and mention that magicka builds are by-and-large ranged and stamina builds are by-and-large melee?

I don't think it's unbalanced to reward the risk of having to move into melee range or close the distance between you and your enemy with a stronger means of finishing the fight.

The range argument is always brought up and to some degree I agree. But the differences have become too huge to warrant this, especially in PvE. And even in PvP it’s melee builds that are dominating, not ranged builds.

There is no reason why Magicka builds don’t have access to any executes while Stamina has 4 different versions of execute skills available.

Why does everyone have to have an Execute?

It's discussions like these that ultimately lead to massive class homogenization, which will ultimately lead everyone having the same abilities, same buffs, same passives, etc.

Is that REALLY what you want for this game? Class and build diversity is what sets this game apart from other MMORPGs, and I for one will never touch it again if all of a sudden every class has access to everything every other class has access to. At that point, what's the point at all of having classes?

That aside, if the class is in need of buffs, then that's perfectly fine, and acceptable to be asking for some. But to be asking for the same abilities as other classes, when you've historically not needed them to perform well at all, is just silly.

Please don't turn in to the Hunters of WoW; they whine about not having even the piddliest of *** that other classes have, and have over time been given all of it. (Stealth, no minimum range, 4+ ways to escape melee that get to them (which is more ways than those melee HAVE to get to them..), etc.)

Executes matter. Especially in PvP. It’s unreasonable to have overperforming Stamina builds with up to 3 executes whereas most Magicka specs have not access at all to them.

I don’t think it’s homogenization, it’s similarity giving every class defensive skills. It’s mandatory. Not every execute but come in the same shape and size though, that’s where I’d put the difference. Dragonknight had an execute that was tied to Heavy Attacks scaling with health which was a great thing. Has been removed. DKs DoTs could tick higher the lower your target HP get for example. It’s not difficult to come up with some creative executes for all classes / builds.

Seraphayel wrote: »

Xogath wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Aedrion wrote: »

Can I just chime in here and mention that magicka builds are by-and-large ranged and stamina builds are by-and-large melee?

I don't think it's unbalanced to reward the risk of having to move into melee range or close the distance between you and your enemy with a stronger means of finishing the fight.

The range argument is always brought up and to some degree I agree. But the differences have become too huge to warrant this, especially in PvE. And even in PvP it’s melee builds that are dominating, not ranged builds.

There is no reason why Magicka builds don’t have access to any executes while Stamina has 4 different versions of execute skills available.

Why does everyone have to have an Execute?

It's discussions like these that ultimately lead to massive class homogenization, which will ultimately lead everyone having the same abilities, same buffs, same passives, etc.

Is that REALLY what you want for this game? Class and build diversity is what sets this game apart from other MMORPGs, and I for one will never touch it again if all of a sudden every class has access to everything every other class has access to. At that point, what's the point at all of having classes?

That aside, if the class is in need of buffs, then that's perfectly fine, and acceptable to be asking for some. But to be asking for the same abilities as other classes, when you've historically not needed them to perform well at all, is just silly.

Please don't turn in to the Hunters of WoW; they whine about not having even the piddliest of *** that other classes have, and have over time been given all of it. (Stealth, no minimum range, 4+ ways to escape melee that get to them (which is more ways than those melee HAVE to get to them..), etc.)

Executes matter. Especially in PvP. It’s unreasonable to have overperforming Stamina builds with up to 3 executes whereas most Magicka specs have not access at all to them.

I don’t think it’s homogenization, it’s similarity giving every class defensive skills. It’s mandatory. Not every execute but come in the same shape and size though, that’s where I’d put the difference. Dragonknight had an execute that was tied to Heavy Attacks scaling with health which was a great thing. Has been removed. DKs DoTs could tick higher the lower your target HP get for example. It’s not difficult to come up with some creative executes for all classes / builds.

1. How are they overperforming? Anyone with any amount of brains is going to take one, because at their core are designed to be a finishing blow. Simply because that's all you ever see Stamina kill you with doesn't mean they're overperforming.. they're serving their purpose. That aside, if you're gearing for PvP the way you should be right now (which is a problem itself, don't misunderstand), exactly how much damage do you think even Executioner is going to be doing? I've been hit by it for around 10k before, but simply because I was running BGs in Medium armor, with way-less-than-capped resistances.

2. It becomes homogenization at some point; basically what you're asking for IS homogenization. In the case of Sorcerers, for example, despite the wording on the tooltip, does Mage's Wrath not operate the same as, say, Executioner? Meaning, if you use it on a target that has, say, 19% health.. does it not do its initial damage and immediately burst for the secondary effect? I seem to remember it operating this way on my Magsorc prior to Morrowind.. so if it doesn't now, my bad.

3. Also in the defense of Sorcerers, I would be fully on board with them raising the Execute threshold on Mage's Fury to 25% instead of 20%.. at the very least, having normalized thresholds would be something worth aiming for.

4. As for a Destruction Staff-based Execute.. I wouldn't necessarily say it's a terrible thing for them to have, but it may not be necessary at all.

can i buff Executioner even more? like, up to 100% for target under 50%.... Or give a 2H passive that's similar to DW.