StamDK needs looking at [PvP and Identity]

GeorgeBlack · July 2019

StamDK has not seen a buff in a while.
The only strength of stamDK was a good synergy with Reverb Bash 7th Fury BS

Finally SnB weapon, 7th and fury sets have been nerfed rightly so. They allowed for survivability and an increace to WD which made stamDK unkillable and lethal. No more.

So it is time to look at the class which only receives nerfs but no improvements.

The passives are terrible and it requires a lot of magika to slot utility abilities.

Wings never got the favourable treatment that sorc abilities get when it's time for the nerf hammer. No consideration in adding increase cost per cast, no considerstion for 1s casting. No discussion just straight out removal of an awsome mechanic unique to the class.
This awsome animation became nothing more than a boring resistance buff.
Wardens tool our skill in a better form.

Way back with DB dlc stamDK became a terrible poison themed class, losing the bonus dmg vs vamps.

Igneous weapons is the most useless source of Maj Brutality. Look at the other class abiities with similar sources...

Chains became Silver Leash, nobody cared like NB and Necro rightly complain about Turn Evil.

I believe that it needs some stamina morphs in order for some new builds to appear now that the OP SnB 7th Fury BS has been nerfed, rightly so.

People are angry when they receive nerfs to overperforming builds, but they never care to improve underperforming playstyles. Let that sink in.

PS. Noxious Breath does not count as s buff. The ability was terrible since forever.

Insco851 · July 2019

It’s currently one of if not the bis Stam class. Might change with the snb changes that have carried people for a good minute but it’s hardly in a bad place.

StrandedMonkey · July 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

StamDK has not seen a buff in a while.
Finally SnB weapon, 7th and fury sets have been nerfed rightly so. They allowed for survivability and an increace to WD which made stamDK unkillable and lethal. No more.

If you're able to say that about a class it clearly doesn't need a buff.

GeorgeBlack · July 2019

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

StamDK has not seen a buff in a while.
Finally SnB weapon, 7th and fury sets have been nerfed rightly so. They allowed for survivability and an increace to WD which made stamDK unkillable and lethal. No more.

If you're able to say that about a class it clearly doesn't need a buff.

It was one build. No more of it. What dont you understand, I will never know.

Insco851 · July 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

StrandedMonkey wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

StamDK has not seen a buff in a while.
Finally SnB weapon, 7th and fury sets have been nerfed rightly so. They allowed for survivability and an increace to WD which made stamDK unkillable and lethal. No more.

If you're able to say that about a class it clearly doesn't need a buff.

It was one build. No more of it. What dont you understand, I will never know.

Fury is still viable. Snb back bar still viable. 7th viable but won’t stack or carry as well as before...

My view on this is wait and see. There’s plenty of changes to THIS build but it wasn’t the ONLY build that was successful. Healing is going thru the roof as well.

The same Stam dk can now run medium and gain medium weapon dmg passive. (Also changed but theoretically would make up for the lost dmg. 150 lost from each fury and 7th. +300 from medium passive+ whatever set you replace 7th with)

Only major difference I see coming is the seething fury stacks getting nerfed (also 150)

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

I've more or less mained Stam DK since launch, mostly playing Medium 2h/DW builds, and feel pretty good about where it is. I'm not sure what you feel Stam DK is lacking, as it has strong healing and sustain to complement its excellent DoT pressure, weapon damage buffs, and unique melee attack reach. It's never been a 3-shot wombo combo class and shouldn't be.

I do wish that the DK Standard ultimate was a better zerg buster, which would help Mag DK as well. Maybe increase the damage, or the snare strength, or the radius, give it both Major and Minor Defile, something... in the meantime, I find myself playing Stam Sorc more and more for Negate.

ecru · July 2019

The change to fossilize is another major issue IMO. The cost increase to fossilize will make it almost impossible to use in a BG for a StamDK, so that's another class ability that I'll probably unslot, leaving me with a total of two class abilities between both bars. It was hard to use before and still be able to use fragmented once in awhile and keep volatile armor up, but now it'll be impossible because using fossilize more than once could easily mean not being able to put volatile armor up, meaning your resist are low and your incoming healing is reduced.

Templar's Toppling Charge costs less than fossilize but both gap closes and stuns, and can potentially proc off balance. Why does Fossilize cost more? Also, Piercing Javelin stuns and gets a stam morph, why can't Fossilize get one? Both toppling charge and javelin do a good amount of damage too, while fossilize does almost none. The cost increase is just too much IMO, and it could really use a stam morph.

xylena_lazarow · July 2019

ecru wrote: »

The change to fossilize is another major issue IMO... it could really use a stam morph.

Turn Evil

GeorgeBlack · July 2019

ecru wrote: »

The change to fossilize is another major issue IMO. The cost increase to fossilize will make it almost impossible to use in a BG for a StamDK, so that's another class ability that I'll probably unslot, leaving me with a total of two class abilities between both bars. It was hard to use before and still be able to use fragmented once in awhile and keep volatile armor up, but now it'll be impossible because using fossilize more than once could easily mean not being able to put volatile armor up, meaning your resist are low and your incoming healing is reduced.

Templar's Toppling Charge costs less than fossilize but both gap closes and stuns, and can potentially proc off balance. Why does Fossilize cost more? Also, Piercing Javelin stuns and gets a stam morph, why can't Fossilize get one? Both toppling charge and javelin do a good amount of damage too, while fossilize does almost none. The cost increase is just too much IMO, and it could really use a stam morph.

Yet another nerf to all stamDK builds except for SnB 7th Fury BS that was running Reverb Bash.
Needless and without giving anything to the class.

Lyar09 · July 2019

Lmao if any stam class needs to be looked at it’s stam sorc. At least you have viable stamina morph skills, ults, and passives. This is honestly laughable of a thread.

Syhae · July 2019

Stamdk has been good for a long time and received plenty of buffs throughout recent patches.
The change to the heavy snb meta will not break stamdk.
It'll bring it more in line with other specs.

Ayastigi · July 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

The change to fossilize is another major issue IMO. The cost increase to fossilize will make it almost impossible to use in a BG for a StamDK, so that's another class ability that I'll probably unslot, leaving me with a total of two class abilities between both bars. It was hard to use before and still be able to use fragmented once in awhile and keep volatile armor up, but now it'll be impossible because using fossilize more than once could easily mean not being able to put volatile armor up, meaning your resist are low and your incoming healing is reduced.

Templar's Toppling Charge costs less than fossilize but both gap closes and stuns, and can potentially proc off balance. Why does Fossilize cost more? Also, Piercing Javelin stuns and gets a stam morph, why can't Fossilize get one? Both toppling charge and javelin do a good amount of damage too, while fossilize does almost none. The cost increase is just too much IMO, and it could really use a stam morph.

Yet another nerf to all stamDK builds except for SnB 7th Fury BS that was running Reverb Bash.
Needless and without giving anything to the class.

Your misinformation is annoying man. You sound like you have problems building..2h/bow is viable, dw/2h is viable, snb/dw is viable, snb 2h is viable, hell even bow, bow is viable...stam dk is amazing in any scenario if you build for it especially considering the cauterize heal and upcoming easy access to major evasion and new fear. You asked for the 7th/fury builds to get toned down and they did that..now you're crying they aren't viable other than that. Let me let you in on a little secret..it's a you problem

NBrookus · July 2019

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

I do wish that the DK Standard ultimate was a better zerg buster, which would help Mag DK as well. Maybe increase the damage, or the snare strength, or the radius, give it both Major and Minor Defile, something... in the meantime, I find myself playing Stam Sorc more and more for Negate.

I agree with that. Negate, Permafrost and Colossus are very superior to Standard for that. And the stamden has an aoe defile as well.

juhislihis19 · July 2019

The combustion passive change was good. I don't know why they nerfed Breath and buffed Claw, what's the point?

Still: 2 stamina morphs out of 15 skills is terrible IMO.

juhislihis19 · July 2019

juhislihis19 wrote: »

The combustion passive change was good. I don't know why they nerfed Breath and buffed Claw, what's the point?

Still: 2 stamina morphs out of 15 skills is terrible IMO.

Oh and I think they still need to take a look at Leap. Not only is it still terribly buggy, but tt's falling further behind DB and now Onslaught.

TrinityBreaker · July 2019

Lyar09 wrote: »

Lmao if any stam class needs to be looked at it’s stam sorc. At least you have viable stamina morph skills, ults, and passives. This is honestly laughable of a thread.

And what are those viable passives that stam DK has? Btw those DoT skills aren't that great.

killimandrosb16_ESO · July 2019

Lyar09 wrote: »

Lmao if any stam class needs to be looked at it’s stam sorc. At least you have viable stamina morph skills, ults, and passives. This is honestly laughable of a thread.

I dont disagree but I dont like whataboutism. This topic is about stamina DK's identity. StamDK is a solid class, BUT, it is carried by weapon and guild skill lines, and not so much stamina DK active skills. With the negative changes to the stamina DK's skills (this ALSO includes MOST stamina classes btw) the class is turning into a generic tanky build. I ASSUME what the OT is about, is making the actual DK CLASS skills more an option, instead of spin2win on dual bar, carve and dizzy on 2h bar, and shield skills on snb bar. A stamDK as it is now, will slot the DKs shields and breath or claw at best. I would LOVE if every class had so many unique and GOOD abilities using your class' only skills would be a solid option. But thats from a personal POW.

Teeba_Shei · July 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

PS. Noxious Breath does not count as s buff. The ability was terrible since forever.

Okay so even when the skills on a class are buffed you don't count it as a buff if the skill was bad before the buff? So the only way you consider a class to be buffed is when they take an overpowered or normal ability and buff it?

Blackbird_V · July 2019

PvE: Weak AOE DPS, but really strop single target DPS. It's in a fine place there.

PvP: Good DPS, absurd sustain. Can 1vx with no issue with correct setup. Can get full HP in 1 ability.

Oh yeah definitely needs a buff right? No. StamDK is fine and the indirect changes to it, alongside other changes is justified.

Mayrael · July 2019

Sorry to hear things like this OP, I totally support class diversity but stamDK is in a quite good spot right now. Look at magblades, almost every class skill (except of cloak) they have can be replaced by better nonclass version, there is no reason to play magblade in 5.1.0.

GeorgeBlack · July 2019

I dont understand why people keep refering to the current SnB 7th Fury BS build that has nothing to do with DK as a class.
I guess they salty.

Wake up. New DLC comic up. You wont have to face SnB 7th Fury BS.

The class needs to be improved. And this is stamDK topic. Not stamsorc or magnb.

Aedaryl · July 2019

You have to face fury + S&B + BS.

S&B still the best weapon for Stamdk with a very good spammable. Just take your new warrior fear evil stun. And you will be fine.

That identity story doesn't justify changing DK skills when the toolkit available is already competitive.

At this point, ZoS should sell texture packages for classes that modify the animations.

Insco851 · July 2019

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

I dont understand why people keep refering to the current SnB 7th Fury BS build that has nothing to do with DK as a class.
I guess they salty.

Wake up. New DLC comic up. You wont have to face SnB 7th Fury BS.

The class needs to be improved. And this is stamDK topic. Not stamsorc or magnb.

Fury completely viable still.

Bloodspawn completely viable still.

Replace 7th with a medium dmg kit.

StamDk is going to be JUST fine. Maybe these changes will actually close the gap between them and others- but it’s not breaking stamdk.

katorga · July 2019

Isn't stamDK the best pvp class THIS patch?

It only gets better with 5.1 (well at least until Eclipse lands on you).

So 7th loses some weapon damage. It still has a lot, and gains a huge amount of health regen just in time for a meta that values healing/health regen.

So 1H got nerfed; 2H got buffed.

You have a wide set of gearing options this patch, and better sets that Fury or 7th.

You get a sweet AOE fear with minor protection.

You get long duration major expedition from MA Elude, and still have native snare reduction.

Sleep724 · July 2019

katorga wrote: »

Isn't stamDK the best pvp class THIS patch?

It only gets better with 5.1 (well at least until Eclipse lands on you).

So 7th loses some weapon damage. It still has a lot, and gains a huge amount of health regen just in time for a meta that values healing/health regen.

So 1H got nerfed; 2H got buffed.

You have a wide set of gearing options this patch, and better sets that Fury or 7th.

You get a sweet AOE fear with minor protection.

You get long duration major expedition from MA Elude, and still have native snare reduction.

And yet none of those are stamDK exclusive.

del9 · July 2019

Silly thread. StamDK is very strong and has received countless buffs. It will still be at or near the top of stam specs if everything on PTS goes live.

It can be played successfully solo with just about any combo of stam weapons.

Devs please disregard this thread.

Davadin · July 2019

Sleep724 wrote: »

katorga wrote: »

Isn't stamDK the best pvp class THIS patch?

It only gets better with 5.1 (well at least until Eclipse lands on you).

So 7th loses some weapon damage. It still has a lot, and gains a huge amount of health regen just in time for a meta that values healing/health regen.

So 1H got nerfed; 2H got buffed.

You have a wide set of gearing options this patch, and better sets that Fury or 7th.

You get a sweet AOE fear with minor protection.

You get long duration major expedition from MA Elude, and still have native snare reduction.

And yet none of those are stamDK exclusive.

this is why id like a buff to the passives and banner perhaps? a new Stam morph would be great too.

but either way, stamdk is fine.

i just got off PTS and noticed Nox breath still great, 2h skills are awesome (10k heal Rally, anyone?), corrosive and leap are just as good (what cast time? nobody will notice it honestly), and DoT overall much better.

so basically, yes for more class identity, but otherwise, it's a very good class with or without comparing to other stam class

ps: 1sec interval for Cauterize or major crit for FOO would be super, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

TrinityBreaker · July 2019

del9 wrote: »

Silly thread. StamDK is very strong and has received countless buffs. It will still be at or near the top of stam specs if everything on PTS goes live.

It can be played successfully solo with just about any combo of stam weapons.

Devs please disregard this thread.

Please share with the rest of the class what those "countless buffs" are. The initial hit from obnoxious breath may have been buff but the skill is far from viable/fine. The hit box is still ass. I have to be in your pocket to land the hit and there is still a very high chance to miss it. Please dont go with "they have the best sustain". Its tied to a passive that forces you to use your strongest skill to restore resources rather than to turning the tide or finishing your target. The other one is tied to casting a insanely expensive magicka skill that cost 4050 magicka that rewards you with a whopping 990 stam. That is amazing sustain right there gee willikers batman!

I swear I do not understand why people like you can spread false information about a class that can hardly qualify as one with passives that hardly synergize with it and lack of...I dont know. Useful stamina morphs and passives.

Xogath · July 2019

Don't get your hopes up, folks.

We begged for some sensible changes during the Elsweyr PTS cycle and were slapped in the face with Seething Fury and a Breath buff (that was probably nerfed or reverted entirely with this patch) instead.

It appears that they simply do not care.

I benched my StamDK as a result, which is a shame because it's actually a really fun class to play as Stamina.

juhislihis19 · July 2019

Shouldn't Breath hit with 10m cone? I swear it doesn't even hit 2m. How hard is it to fix?

RealPhoenix · July 2019

TrinityBreaker wrote: »

del9 wrote: »

Silly thread. StamDK is very strong and has received countless buffs. It will still be at or near the top of stam specs if everything on PTS goes live.

It can be played successfully solo with just about any combo of stam weapons.

Devs please disregard this thread.

Please share with the rest of the class what those "countless buffs" are. The initial hit from obnoxious breath may have been buff but the skill is far from viable/fine. The hit box is still ass. I have to be in your pocket to land the hit and there is still a very high chance to miss it. Please dont go with "they have the best sustain". Its tied to a passive that forces you to use your strongest skill to restore resources rather than to turning the tide or finishing your target. The other one is tied to casting a insanely expensive magicka skill that cost 4050 magicka that rewards you with a whopping 990 stam. That is amazing sustain right there gee willikers batman!

I swear I do not understand why people like you can spread false information about a class that can hardly qualify as one with passives that hardly synergize with it and lack of...I dont know. Useful stamina morphs and passives.

Sure, lets list all the skills a stam dk could potentially use:

1. Cauterize: Insane HoT for StamDK
2. Fragmented Shield: If you dont understand why this ability is so strong, you dont know how to play DK
3. Wings: Not gonna always slot this, but in certain situations this skill can be very strong.
4. Corrosive: Not even gonna bother explaining why.
5. Leap: Good instant damge.
6. Claw: Next patch this is gonna have great single target damage
7. Noxious: Decent Skill, not perfect but usable if you want to
8. Petrify: Great Stun
9. Volatile / Hardened Armor: Resistances + dmg return / shield. Not much else to say to this

Now, just for comparison´s sake, lets look at stam sorc:

1. Dark Deal: Great utility skill
2. Hurricane: Decent Dot, nice for minor expedition and resistance buffs
3. Streak: Useful for some builds, probably gonna be used more next patch for unblockable stun
4. Uuuuhm, crit surge? Not really. Bound Armor? Well, also not great. Ultimate anyone? Nope.

I am not even gonna start talking about passives. This comparison was only made to show stam dk has many abilities it can potentially slot for class identity, whereas stam sorc has almost none. Same applies to necro btw. And dont come to me and say "but these abilities cost magicka! They are not stamina skills!" If you dont understand that using both of your resources is actually better for you, then I also dont know how to convince you. All the abilities I mentioned either scale with stamina or offer resource agnostic functionality that can be useful for both magicka and stamina dragonknights.

Stam DK is in a good spot for PvP. There is other classes that need more love than this one.