"Why you keep doing this changes?" To keep the game alive. If you like the content, you just adapt and hunt for new sets, study new rotations etc. But if you are already bored and fed up with the problems in the game, you just take a break and see what happens after the patch.

Sustain - heavy attack gamestyle received a negative feedback during Morrowind phase. I would not say it almost killed the game but it was close. Well, we will have to wait and see I guess.

idk wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

From what I understood they were taking some heavy swings at things this year (and going forward) to rebuild the base levels of things, however without context of final vision some of the changes seem radical and out of nowhere without any reason.

I would expect heavy changes based on what they said last year and I am pretty sure I get less information that you do.

The link below is where Rob says they are "codifying our vision and long-term strategy for combat." What we are seeing now is the implementation of that. If they actually did a good job and thought all this through then we should see less heavy handed changes with each update as we have for years now.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/445615/combat-update-in-u21-a-new-approach/p1

This is something a good manager, president of Zos, should have done before the game launched. Not 5 years later. We can all hope they thought things through for a change.

Other than the short conversations with Rob and Rich at the London event I don't think I have more info than most. The link you have is the one I was thinking of in what I said regarding the long term plan.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

From what I understood they were taking some heavy swings at things this year (and going forward) to rebuild the base levels of things, however without context of final vision some of the changes seem radical and out of nowhere without any reason.

I've never played any other online game but ESO and one of the motivation I had for trying ESO was to find out how a "neverending game" could work. It's clear to me that constant changing of combat system is just as part of the "neverending aspect" and player retention as expansions are.

How do other games deal with combat changes ? And how do their communities react to them ?

The only other game where I actively followed game balance was EVE Online and that was better communication (Dev blogs, threads for feedback where devs engaged and debated, earlier/longer testing for some changes) however the community response on some issues was about the same as on here. It was just less rude/offensive because the CCP mods where very hardcore.

mairwen85 wrote: »

I agree transparency is sorely missing, along with communication and active engagement - - ball gagging class reps with NDA. All this serves to put player's backs up with every change as the distance grows wider between player expectation and experience vs developer vision of the game. Motivations behind each change with real reasoning reflective of in game experience would be welcome, instead of seemingly wild swipes at this or that with vague semi-sensical contradictory meandering comments and corny jokes.

I don't think they can coherently give voice to their expectations, because I think they don't have a coherent plan to voice.

It always feels more like they just throw a deck of cards(skills) in the air and then change the first 5 they randomly pick up.

Also WoW has admitted to going to far on class pruning/balance and all that.

https://massivelyop.com/2019/06/22/blizzard-on-world-of-warcraft-class-pruning-weve-gone-too-far/

"In last week’s Dev Insights video, Ion Hazzikostas confessed that Blizzard went “too far” on class balance and pruning in the past few expansions. There is clearly some regret over various abilities that were either watered down or removed from the game entirely, and Blizzard may be restoring these in the future, offering more options for hybrid play and stronger class identity."

i personally support the direction of standardizing skills more as long as you introduce enough stand. (de)buffs to keep classes diverse....

I basically play this game for VMA. If both trash mobs and bosses are going to be effectively 30% harder to kill, all other nerfs aside - and I'm most certainly not an elite player - that will take 30% longer, and be at minimum 100% more frustrating than it currently is.
And if I'm not playing for VMA, what's left for me? Trials, PVP? Nope, too much lag, too many disconnects. Grinding for gear? What's the point, now? Crafting, repeatable quests and housing? Nope.

As I said in another thread... I want more from this game than those three things. Doing the same **** every day loses its appeal very quickly.

LoreToo wrote: »

LadyLethalla wrote: »

I basically play this game for VMA. If both trash mobs and bosses are going to be effectively 30% harder to kill, all other nerfs aside - and I'm most certainly not an elite player - that will take 30% longer, and be at minimum 100% more frustrating than it currently is.
And if I'm not playing for VMA, what's left for me? Trials, PVP? Nope, too much lag, too many disconnects. Grinding for gear? What's the point, now? Crafting, repeatable quests and housing? Nope.

As I said in another thread... I want more from this game than those three things. Doing the same **** every day loses its appeal very quickly.

Tbh, pvp is the only way to go right now. Its always different situations where you need to use braincells. PvE is dead since CwC, when dps went too high to skip 80% of trials mechanics and just stay and cosplay target dummy. VMa is same, you just rush thrue the arenas with no damage taking, burning adds as mad. All the changes we have right now do not impsct on dps in pve tremendously

One of the last times I went to PVP, I got disconnected before I reached Nikel, without even seeing another player. Sieges drop to low, low FPS, then no FPS and I have to quit and log back in. Last year's Midyear Mayhem I died on approaching a siege, to a player who hadn't appeared on my screen. So again, PVP isn't an option. Battlegrounds don't interest me either.

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

Been playing for awhile now (8 chars ~CP1200) as primarily a solo PvE player. All I know is that it seems each and every patch seems to make my game less fun. Rather than look forward to updates/patches/new content I have learned to dread them.

I've had pretty much a gut full of 'evolving'. To me that typically means moving in directions I don't want to go. For example, a review of the proposed PTS patch changes and my healer first cut on my 'evolve' response is to change her from a healer with a bit of dps into a dps with a bit of class only heals (dump resto staff completely). She would go from a pug healer to a solo dps. Is that the kind of 'evolve and adapt' that is the 'objective/vision' here? My dps characters will 'evolve and adapt' by cutting a number of dungeons from the list of dungeons they are willing to enter. Previous patches have already 'evolved' me to totally ignore all DLC dungeons and all DLC WBs. My 'evolution' path is toward more and more solo only play, and my dungeon progression is moving toward delves instead of DLC dungeons.

Since each update seems to make my game less fun, I am concerned about the logical consequences of that; my ongoing search for a replacement game that is Single Player (no 'balance' drama) open world, massive scale, medieval fantasy rpg intensifies.

I don't get this. How can a patch make a game " Less Fun " ? Sure, maybe it might affect tactics or it might change a few numbers here and there in DPS, or maybe even you might actually start using skills you never used before.

None of this should have Any influence on whether or not a game, overall, is "Fun" .

I also notice you don't clarify the type of game you are looking for - as in PVE or PVP emphasis.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

From what I understood they were taking some heavy swings at things this year (and going forward) to rebuild the base levels of things, however without context of final vision some of the changes seem radical and out of nowhere without any reason.

I've never played any other online game but ESO and one of the motivation I had for trying ESO was to find out how a "neverending game" could work. It's clear to me that constant changing of combat system is just as part of the "neverending aspect" and player retention as expansions are.

How do other games deal with combat changes ? And how do their communities react to them ?

It is the same with other games. I've played TERA and SWTOR too, both for years so I have some experience of what happens in MMORPG. I've also spent lots of time in two instance-based variants of MMORPG, Skyforge and C9. It is just the same in all these games. Developers make changes trying to balance the game, and players scream and make threats or beg. This is nothing I haven't seen 50 times before, so I'm totally unmoved by it.

Of course developers can make changes that make me leave, and TERA and Skyforge are good ecxamples. They simply casualised the game to the level I couldn't take anymore, and I'm a casual player myself, or something you could call "hard casual" (not a term I invented but fitting I guess). TERA used to be an awesome game at 2014. Now it is a total joke where you can autoattack through the whole levelling process (that is now designed to be steamrolled through as fast as possible), and I'm not exaggerating here. Skyforge went through a total overhaul so they could move the game to consoles. Doing that they probably lost all their old players, and game is now untolerable mobile-game wannabe. Both companies probably knew or at least guessed they will lose most of the hardcore crowd, but counted that the monetary gains from new, very casual players were worth it. I suppose they were right because those games are still alive, not that anyone takes them seriously. You almost never hear anyone even mentioning TERA anymore.

Those were just example of how MUCH the game can change because it is neverending. ESO has done that too, with one Tamriel. Which was for the better imho.

Combat changes are a never ending cycle in MMO's. You have to come to them with the attitude that it WILL happen, and nothing you can do to stop them frm happening. You won't always like them. In every game I've played PVE people blaim PVP for the nerfs. In every game players act like world will end and game is doomed and servers will close during next three months and developers better ready their cardbord boxes as a new life as a hobo awaits.

Combat changes are NOTHING. Be afraid of a total overhaul of the game. One that leaves your former favorite game to be a shell of itself. I have left THREE games because of it. SWTOR is only one I came back to and only because it finally got a new lead who is sane and understands what is best for the game (and people still scream about combat changes and rarely mentions the plethora of awesome changes that have been done resently).

All happening now is normal and expected and will happen again and again. And I don't say it is good, I just say it is what happens in every game.

Alienoutlaw wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

From what I understood they were taking some heavy swings at things this year (and going forward) to rebuild the base levels of things, however without context of final vision some of the changes seem radical and out of nowhere without any reason.

so to say that these changes harsh as they seem now will be balanced with a new "CP" model would not be to far of the mark?

I don't know how a new version of CP system will restore range to my CC abilties, but sure I guess I'll come back to the game when that happens.

tahol10069 wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

From what I understood they were taking some heavy swings at things this year (and going forward) to rebuild the base levels of things, however without context of final vision some of the changes seem radical and out of nowhere without any reason.

I've never played any other online game but ESO and one of the motivation I had for trying ESO was to find out how a "neverending game" could work. It's clear to me that constant changing of combat system is just as part of the "neverending aspect" and player retention as expansions are.

How do other games deal with combat changes ? And how do their communities react to them ?

It is the same with other games. I've played TERA and SWTOR too, both for years so I have some experience of what happens in MMORPG. I've also spent lots of time in two instance-based variants of MMORPG, Skyforge and C9. It is just the same in all these games. Developers make changes trying to balance the game, and players scream and make threats or beg. This is nothing I haven't seen 50 times before, so I'm totally unmoved by it.

Of course developers can make changes that make me leave, and TERA and Skyforge are good ecxamples. They simply casualised the game to the level I couldn't take anymore, and I'm a casual player myself, or something you could call "hard casual" (not a term I invented but fitting I guess). TERA used to be an awesome game at 2014. Now it is a total joke where you can autoattack through the whole levelling process (that is now designed to be steamrolled through as fast as possible), and I'm not exaggerating here. Skyforge went through a total overhaul so they could move the game to consoles. Doing that they probably lost all their old players, and game is now untolerable mobile-game wannabe. Both companies probably knew or at least guessed they will lose most of the hardcore crowd, but counted that the monetary gains from new, very casual players were worth it. I suppose they were right because those games are still alive, not that anyone takes them seriously. You almost never hear anyone even mentioning TERA anymore.

Those were just example of how MUCH the game can change because it is neverending. ESO has done that too, with one Tamriel. Which was for the better imho.

Combat changes are a never ending cycle in MMO's. You have to come to them with the attitude that it WILL happen, and nothing you can do to stop them frm happening. You won't always like them. In every game I've played PVE people blaim PVP for the nerfs. In every game players act like world will end and game is doomed and servers will close during next three months and developers better ready their cardbord boxes as a new life as a hobo awaits.

Combat changes are NOTHING. Be afraid of a total overhaul of the game. One that leaves your former favorite game to be a shell of itself. I have left THREE games because of it. SWTOR is only one I came back to and only because it finally got a new lead who is sane and understands what is best for the game (and people still scream about combat changes and rarely mentions the plethora of awesome changes that have been done resently).

All happening now is normal and expected and will happen again and again. And I don't say it is good, I just say it is what happens in every game.

I agree with you except

The Elder Scrolls is not their IP.

You cant rewrite an established IP for pvp combat balance reasons

Hobbits are not suddenly more magically powerful wizards than Elves. Vulcans are not suddenly 3rd place in intellect.

If this was their own little world that didn’t exist for 10-25 years before they were hired then do what ever you like, even something as dumb as introduce a panda race into this game.

They have a 100% obligation to explain the changes they make when it changes the fundamental nature of the universe. I agree Moving points and percentages around combat changes is not worth getting worked up about.

All my feedback comes from “if I tell my friend who loves TES from previous games about ESO, but who doesn’t play ESO, it better make sense.” I also run it by a friend who is into fantasy genre but not necessarily TES. If it stops making sense then they are obligated to give an explanation.