Request: Devs vet Trials on PTS Livestream

HiLyfe808 · July 2019

That would be nice to see and all, but have u not seen their march of sacrifice hm stream? They couldn’t even beat it after multiple wipes, they ended up doing it on normal.

Chadak · July 2019

Turelus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The devs are not really raiders or serious players. If you ask a full dev team to do vSS on live they would probably fail. Asking them to do it on PTS would not demonstrate anything.

Indeed. It would make more sense to ask raiding guilds who are focused and trained to give it a go.

I do imagine ZOS has teams (testers) within the company that play and clear content, but I often feel the challenge of "if Devs can't do it, clearly it doesn't work" isn't fair as the devs are often not as skilled as the player base. It's a myth that you have to be good at playing your own game to develop it well.

If devs are making changes that they never experience the consequences of in gameplay, the consequences are never real to them and cannot be accounted for properly when they are making continued changes.

It's terribly easy to get reckless and myopic when making changes to something when the consequences of those changes have no impact on you. So if they're asking people to put in all this effort and adapt and roll with every change they impose, but never have to put in that kind of effort, adaptation or helpless acceptance of imposition themselves?

Doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Never eat a restaurant where the chef won't eat his own cooking.

anitajoneb17_ESO · July 2019

Turelus wrote: »

idk wrote: »

The devs are not really raiders or serious players. If you ask a full dev team to do vSS on live they would probably fail. Asking them to do it on PTS would not demonstrate anything.

Indeed. It would make more sense to ask raiding guilds who are focused and trained to give it a go.

I do imagine ZOS has teams (testers) within the company that play and clear content, but I often feel the challenge of "if Devs can't do it, clearly it doesn't work" isn't fair as the devs are often not as skilled as the player base. It's a myth that you have to be good at playing your own game to develop it well.

Elite players may be better than the devs at clearing hard content - and that's normal, no problem with that. But devs have the significant advantage to know the mechanics and the abilities more in-depth than players (who actually have to reverse-engineer and figure out everything themselves).

In my opinion you don't have to be good yourself to develop the game, but if you're designing stuff that is purposedly aimed at the top 1%, like vet HM, then I believe you should be able to clear it yourself. Inversely, you shouldn't be in charge of designing normal modes, overland content and this kind of stuff if you can't put yourself in the shoes of a "casual".

ecru · July 2019

HiLyfe808 wrote: »

That would be nice to see and all, but have u not seen their march of sacrifice hm stream? They couldn’t even beat it after multiple wipes, they ended up doing it on normal.

to be fair march of sacrifices on hardmode was actually pretty hard before it was nerfed a few weeks after it was released. the stranglers had a about 5 times as much hp and would permanently cc someone until they were killed, which made it really easy to wipe.

anitajoneb17_ESO · July 2019

HiLyfe808 wrote: »

That would be nice to see and all, but have u not seen their march of sacrifice hm stream? They couldn’t even beat it after multiple wipes, they ended up doing it on normal.

I would be gentle on that. Streaming adds a level of stress and pressure that plays a significant role against player performance. Especially as a dev.

Pr0Skygon · July 2019

Don't get the devs to do the stream, get the QA and balance testers. If the devs do vSS HM on stream, it'd be a 24 hours marathon, and nobody has time for that.