MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

I mean, dps are meant to focus purely on damage. It's up to the support roles to provide them with what they need to do so. Maybe they just want everyone to move towards the beginner pet sorc heavy attack simulator.

Maybe DD's will have to slot an aoe heal for heal checks in end game trials now.

It's up to the player to focus on dmg and part of that is having enough sustain to do that dmg. Maybe people will have to lose a bit now to sustain thats fine.

that's boring.

Then go play an FPS. ESO is an MMORPG and honestly, most of the changes coming in this next patch are good for the long-term health of this game. The spam was getting out of control.

Aside from HA.... i think the best way to sustain is all the DPS chase the 1 orb around, no abilities = your resources would have regen'ed ezpz.

SirAndy wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Why on earth would anybody with a brain do a heavy attack?

Because some people with a brain actually figured out complete builds that are centered around heavy attacks.
Try wrapping your "brain" around that ...

What's a "complete" build?
There is simply "best" and "rest". Your heavy attack builds fall into "rest". And that's fine, but its not optimal in the current patch and hasn't been for a very long time.

A "complete" build is one that can clear all the content in this game. Yes, you can clear vet DLC trials with a heavy attack focused build without being carried by your group.

Is it BiS at this moment in time? No. But that wasn't the question ...

Sure you can, but you made it harder on your group by not running an optimal build.

Kel wrote: »

Runefang wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Why on earth would anybody with a brain do a heavy attack?

Because some people with a brain actually figured out complete builds that are centered around heavy attacks.

Try wrapping your "brain" around that ...

What's a "complete" build?

There is simply "best" and "rest". Your heavy attack builds fall into "rest". And that's fine, but its not optimal in the current patch and hasn't been for a very long time.

Who's talking about the current patch? This topic is about the future patch.

Evito wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Heavy Attack.

*** that

I like how people expect more sustain but want to do nothing about it. This is why I have no sympathy for you.

You're not supposed to self sustain in a trial.

You're going to be forced to if these changes go live. That's exactly the point of this topic.

This upcoming patch is going to be hilarious, I can already tell from these responses. And I mean, hilariously bad.
Talk about not seeing the forest for the trees.

Well I don’t know what’s optimal yet on the new patch so I can’t really say. I’ll be on the PTS tonight and find out more. And if heavy attacks are optimal I’ll use them, as will most PvE end game players because adapting is what we do. I just won’t like it, and neither will most PvE end game players.

Heavy attacks are still highly unlikely to be a regular source of sustain because ZOS decided the single biggest source of DPS is a light attack. Figuring out how to sustain without having to resort to heavies is going to be the aim because ZOS designed the game that way.

The argument that dps don’t build for sustain is also bad. DPS build for a level of self sustain that when combined with sustain from a trial group (synergies, group buffs, worm/hircine etc) means they won’t run out of resources until the end of the fight.

OH MY GOD, THE SKY IS FALLING! IT'S FALLING! RUN!!!

or just grow a damn brain and figure out how frickin' easy it is to sustain.

Degeneration now supplies resources on light attack.
Minor Magickasteal still a thing.
Undaunted Command.
Witchmother's Potent Brew if you REALLY need it.
Dubious Camoran if you REALLY need it.
Use 1 recovery glyph on a ring.
Adjust your CP to give more recovery or more resource return on a heavy attack.
Use a 2h Weapon --- Heavy attacks don't lose out on DPS between the higher damage and 10% boost on next direct damage skill.
Use a Lightning or Resto staff for heavies --- restore more resources.
Slot Reviving Barrier on front bar --- 10% Magicka Recovery for that (plus a utility skill).
Become a Vamp (15% recovery).
Run Circle of Protection (10% stam recovery while standing in it).
Templar (Stamina): Rune + Repentance passive + Repentance active.
Templar (Magicka): Rune + the above mentioned.
Nightblade: Siphoning Strikes and Incapacitating Strikes.
Sorcerer Dark Deal/Exchange as appropriate, toggle up Overload for a few seconds.
Warden: Pets got ya.
Necro: Mystic Siphon, I'm sure there are others.
DK: Inhale and what's the passive, Helping Hands?

What else...
Sunspire set for Magicka.
Symphony of Blades set.

New Monster set for BOTH, as it gives weapon/spell crit, AND a resource return.

Absorb Magicka/Stamina glyphs on an infused weapon.

Oh, and of course, Orbs and Spear Shards from a Templar.

I know I'm forgetting some, but if you can't figure out how to sustain with this, maybe it's time to consider you may be a potato.

Have you done all of your vet trials with no death? Because being dead will have a more deleterious effect on your parse than doing one HA every 4 minutes of a 8 to 16 minute fight ^^

Pulling 4 min as an arbitrary range, ymmv.

As another poster pointed out, the meta right now is so allergic to HA's other than on healers (and even then, you don't need a full HA to proc IA). That ZOS might want to address that, is it so surprising? It's not like you'll need to HA every rotation, they are already changing orbs to be even easier to synergise than it is currently XD

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Vajrak wrote: »

OH MY GOD, THE SKY IS FALLING! IT'S FALLING! RUN!!!

or just grow a damn brain and figure out how frickin' easy it is to sustain.

Degeneration now supplies resources on light attack.
Minor Magickasteal still a thing.
Undaunted Command.
Witchmother's Potent Brew if you REALLY need it.
Dubious Camoran if you REALLY need it.
Use 1 recovery glyph on a ring.
Adjust your CP to give more recovery or more resource return on a heavy attack.
Use a 2h Weapon --- Heavy attacks don't lose out on DPS between the higher damage and 10% boost on next direct damage skill.
Use a Lightning or Resto staff for heavies --- restore more resources.
Slot Reviving Barrier on front bar --- 10% Magicka Recovery for that (plus a utility skill).
Become a Vamp (15% recovery).
Run Circle of Protection (10% stam recovery while standing in it).
Templar (Stamina): Rune + Repentance passive + Repentance active.
Templar (Magicka): Rune + the above mentioned.
Nightblade: Siphoning Strikes and Incapacitating Strikes.
Sorcerer Dark Deal/Exchange as appropriate, toggle up Overload for a few seconds.
Warden: Pets got ya.
Necro: Mystic Siphon, I'm sure there are others.
DK: Inhale and what's the passive, Helping Hands?

What else...
Sunspire set for Magicka.
Symphony of Blades set.

New Monster set for BOTH, as it gives weapon/spell crit, AND a resource return.

Absorb Magicka/Stamina glyphs on an infused weapon.

Oh, and of course, Orbs and Spear Shards from a Templar.

I know I'm forgetting some, but if you can't figure out how to sustain with this, maybe it's time to consider you may be a potato.

Yes there are ways ,but some classes have far supereior sustain tools than others.Seriously though slotting a clunky cast time skill ie.sorc.Not going to get the best response from.Unless of course they make it more useable.Most also already have 100 points into regen in cp.Finally for a non healer to slot a resto staff,that would rip most dps builds a new ***.You are forgetting that orbs may be in short supply next patch as well.Yes I see them coming around,but another potential problem.Will they actually be there when you are off cooldown with the changes to orbs coming.

True, there is about a 1k DPS loss by using dark exchange on sorc; takes a bit of time to find the rhythm to use it around endless hail/blockade (depending on spec), but is still viable. It could be smoothed out a bit more, and I hope they do, to reduce that 1k loss to around a 400 loss, but it definitely isn't a make-or-break situation.

Some classes do have superior options, and orbs, I get that they are useful, but not absolutely necessary. If it is a choice between reducing my DPS by 1-2% to make my sustain stable, or cry tears at losing 1-2%, I'd rather just adjust as needed.

Work it out, it's not that hard, and if you need to put in 1 heavy attack every 4th, 5th, 8th rotation, then do so.
Mag sustain is a little easier in the sense that magicka steal is available while a stamina steal isn't, while stamina gets balanced by having overall lower costs. They already are looking at orbs and making the synergy last so it is mostly just taking a healing reduction. I haven't done too much on the PTS yet, but so far the changes really aren't a big deal unless you were going full glass anyway.