Sustain if pts goes live

Grandma

heavy attack. wear a sustain set (ie monster). be breton/redguard.

SirAndy

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Why on earth would anybody with a brain do a heavy attack?

Because some people with a brain actually figured out complete builds that are centered around heavy attacks.

Try wrapping your "brain" around that ...

MehrunesFlagon

oddbasket wrote: »

Magicka can just get False God from Sunspire and be an energizer bunny.

that requires adds to die.rather situational.

Kel

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You have a free dmg skill now and a free sustain skill.

Plus a dot thats going to be good now.

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

With all the skill cost increase (for Magicka Necro for example) what exactly are we supposed to do for sustain?

Seraphayel wrote: »

Heavy Attack.

There you go.

You have either two options. You either do the logical thing Sera mentioned and work in a heavy attack. OR... if you want to play this game like it a first person shooter and non-stop smash buttons, you compensate your build to have more resource regen. People need to stop acting like the sky is falling. Morrowind was a LOT more harsh and the game moved on just fine from that moment...expect for poor Deltia and his poor Templar.

Why on earth would anybody with a brain do a heavy attack?

Because heavy attacks restore resources, shocking I know. Its super secret information.

And they take forever and decrease your dps.You realize only scrubs use heavy attacks in rotations anyway.

How much dps are you going to do when you're out of your resources?

You're just going to have to live with DPS losses, or haven't you been paying attention to the patch notes?

Can't run on empty.

No I'm probably going to be more of a *** in groups that can't provide proper support.

You really haven't read the notes...

They will also have to support thier own sustainability. They won't be looking after yours.

That's up to you now...like it or not.
Be an ass all you want. You'll soon run out of groups. Groups who'll have to provide thier own support and won't have time to deal with someone who can't adapt.

MehrunesFlagon

Grandma wrote: »

heavy attack. wear a sustain set (ie monster). be breton/redguard.

lame,with the exception of breton.

Kel

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

heavy attack. wear a sustain set (ie monster). be breton/redguard.

lame,with the exception of breton.

Ah
..I get it now....

Nothing but a troll...

Ignore any future responses

MehrunesFlagon

Kel wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Kel wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

You have a free dmg skill now and a free sustain skill.

Plus a dot thats going to be good now.

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

With all the skill cost increase (for Magicka Necro for example) what exactly are we supposed to do for sustain?

Seraphayel wrote: »

Heavy Attack.

There you go.

You have either two options. You either do the logical thing Sera mentioned and work in a heavy attack. OR... if you want to play this game like it a first person shooter and non-stop smash buttons, you compensate your build to have more resource regen. People need to stop acting like the sky is falling. Morrowind was a LOT more harsh and the game moved on just fine from that moment...expect for poor Deltia and his poor Templar.

Why on earth would anybody with a brain do a heavy attack?

Because heavy attacks restore resources, shocking I know. Its super secret information.

And they take forever and decrease your dps.You realize only scrubs use heavy attacks in rotations anyway.

How much dps are you going to do when you're out of your resources?

You're just going to have to live with DPS losses, or haven't you been paying attention to the patch notes?

Can't run on empty.

No I'm probably going to be more of a *** in groups that can't provide proper support.

You really haven't read the notes...

They will also have to support thier own sustainability. They won't be looking after yours.

That's up to you now...like it or not.
Be an ass all you want. You'll soon run out of groups. Groups who'll have to provide thier own support and won't have time to deal with someone who can't adapt.

Yeah I have.Still not going to get me yo be happy having to heavy attack.Don't you remember Morrowind,that was ***.We need to not go through with these brainless changes.

MehrunesFlagon

Kel wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Grandma wrote: »

heavy attack. wear a sustain set (ie monster). be breton/redguard.

lame,with the exception of breton.

Ah
..I get it now....

Nothing but a troll...

Ignore any future responses

you realize a sustain set makes you hit like a wet noodle.There's a reason they aren't used in pve.Only reasonable option I can even fathom is witchmother's,but the I would have the occasional person that complained abut 15k health.

MehrunesFlagon

SirAndy wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Why on earth would anybody with a brain do a heavy attack?

Because some people with a brain actually figured out complete builds that are centered around heavy attacks.

Try wrapping your "brain" around that ...

And that does not make me like them any more.They are extremely sluggish and boring.

MehrunesFlagon

D0PAMINE wrote: »

'I know it sucks, but I've found infused recovery, in addition to regen food/drink to just be one of the easier ways to sustain. Once I did that it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be.

well I did forget about that one.was meta a few patches back

oddbasket

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Magicka can just get False God from Sunspire and be an energizer bunny.

that requires adds to die.rather situational.

In dungeons you can run from mob to mob with full magicka, in boss fights, the 8% cost reduction comes in handy. That doesn't help with sustain?

leepalmer95

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Why on earth would anybody with a brain do a heavy attack?

Because some people with a brain actually figured out complete builds that are centered around heavy attacks.

Try wrapping your "brain" around that ...

And that does not make me like them any more.They are extremely sluggish and boring.

Pressing light skill once a second is more exciting how?

ccfeeling

HA build will be back ...

Aznarb

Simple, adapt your gear.
Is that to hard ?

No more glass canon who do nothing bu rely on heal.
Now, you've to think about balancing your build between sustain and DPS, that all.

That also mean, less dps, less stupid stack-and-burn strat.
Now let's see how ZoS will adapt the PvE content to match these change, THAT is gonna be funny if they don't.

Banana

Im going back to lightning heavy attack build for my mdk.

MehrunesFlagon

oddbasket wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

oddbasket wrote: »

Magicka can just get False God from Sunspire and be an energizer bunny.

that requires adds to die.rather situational.

In dungeons you can run from mob to mob with full magicka, in boss fights, the 8% cost reduction comes in handy. That doesn't help with sustain?

Some bosses don't have too many adds,but you are right about alot of them.

D0PAMINE

Banana wrote: »

Im going back to lightning heavy attack build for my mdk.

Im still keeping my setup for now. Spent too much time on it to change. If it's bad im shelving the character.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Heavy attack are so slow and such a dps lost that changing glyph will probably be bether.

Runefang

SirAndy wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Why on earth would anybody with a brain do a heavy attack?

Because some people with a brain actually figured out complete builds that are centered around heavy attacks.

Try wrapping your "brain" around that ...

What's a "complete" build?

There is simply "best" and "rest". Your heavy attack builds fall into "rest". And that's fine, but its not optimal in the current patch and hasn't been for a very long time.

Conduit0

Aznarb wrote: »

Simple, adapt your gear.
Is that to hard ?

No more glass canon who do nothing bu rely on heal.
Now, you've to think about balancing your build between sustain and DPS, that all.

That also mean, less dps, less stupid stack-and-burn strat.
Now let's see how ZoS will adapt the PvE content to match these change, THAT is gonna be funny if they don't.

Of course they're not going to adapt any content to the new changes, they've never done it in the past they certainly aren't going to start now.

Alucardo

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Heavy Attack.

*** that

I like how people expect more sustain but want to do nothing about it. This is why I have no sympathy for you.

Aznarb

Alucardo wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Heavy Attack.

*** that

I like how people expect more sustain but want to do nothing about it. This is why I have no sympathy for you.

Agree.

I've read one guy in a tank thread saying something pretty smart that most of us have miss :
the DPS buff of Mystic Orb. If it's good enough, mag dps could also slot it to help with sustain w/o scarifying dps.
I'll try that with guildy on pts.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

DeathStalker wrote: »

With all the skill cost increase (for Magicka Necro for example) what exactly are we supposed to do for sustain?

Seraphayel wrote: »

Heavy Attack.

There you go.

You have either two options. You either do the logical thing Sera mentioned and work in a heavy attack. OR... if you want to play this game like it a first person shooter and non-stop smash buttons, you compensate your build to have more resource regen. People need to stop acting like the sky is falling. Morrowind was a LOT more harsh and the game moved on just fine from that moment...expect for poor Deltia and his poor Templar.

So skillful damage rotations equal button mashing? And what, holding down the LMB is good game design? We have been through this already. Nobody wants to do a heavy attack rotation, at least nobody that can actually play this game. It is mindnumbingly boring, and the morrowind changes nearly destroyed end game PVE. Who wants to go through that again?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Seraphayel wrote: »

UntilValhalla13 wrote: »

I mean, dps are meant to focus purely on damage. It's up to the support roles to provide them with what they need to do so. Maybe they just want everyone to move towards the beginner pet sorc heavy attack simulator.

Uhm... no. If you’re building towards zero sustain by yourself that’s your choice. You can do that but don’t expect others to cater to your needs just because you want the highest DPS yet you’re not willing to - at a certain degree - self-sustain.

Comments like this show a complete lack of understanding of how anything actually works in this game. Oh you are a glass cannon, which offends me for some reason, so suck it up. It’s all nonsense.

You think the highest DPS groups just ignore sustain? Nothing could be further from the truth. The food you run, the sets you wear, the enchants you use, how you setup your support, every synergy you use, all goes towards sustain. Glass cannon DPS spend more time worrying about sustain not less. They are simply trying to find the right balance because there is a trade off between damage and sustain and of course people want to maximize damage. Why on earth wouldn’t you. Just like a tank who needs to figure out how much health or resist they need, but don’t want to go wildly over the mark because there are trade offs elsewhere.

If sustain gets nerfed, well good groups are just going to make adjustments. If that means they run regen food or an extra recovery enchant, then that’s what they will do. They aren’t going to fundamentally alter the way they setup damage rotations in this game, because there will be no need to.

Sustain nerfs simply amount to a DPS nerf. That’s all it is. Well the best groups already pull insane amounts of damage, and we still have a good chunk of the player base that cant seem to break 20k. Whom do you think this is going to hurt? It will only serve to widen the skill gap.

The other potential option is they take it too far and we go back to the days where a simple heavy attack rotation with no additional sustain sacrifices outperform complex light attacking rotations with appropriate trade offs. When the floor is above the ceiling, it means the house has collapsed.

Seraphayel

Aznarb wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Heavy Attack.

*** that

I like how people expect more sustain but want to do nothing about it. This is why I have no sympathy for you.

Agree.

I've read one guy in a tank thread saying something pretty smart that most of us have miss :
the DPS buff of Mystic Orb. If it's good enough, mag dps could also slot it to help with sustain w/o scarifying dps.
I'll try that with guildy on pts.

Crazy, people already trying to counter the changes by coming up with new build ideas instead of mindless complaining. How refreshing!

Llaren_Uvayn

"I'm not going to heavy attack because it's boring and I refuse to change anything about the way I play this game even though almost everyone agrees the power creep is insane and a DPS nerf and more situational rotations might actually go some way to address that. "

What are we, five?

Evito

Alucardo wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Heavy Attack.

*** that

I like how people expect more sustain but want to do nothing about it. This is why I have no sympathy for you.

You're not supposed to self sustain in a trial.

redlink1979

Tyrobag wrote: »

Stop dps and wait in line for an orb.

Or consume a food/drink... Or maybe craft a glyph or two...

Llaren_Uvayn

Evito wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Heavy Attack.

*** that

I like how people expect more sustain but want to do nothing about it. This is why I have no sympathy for you.

You're not supposed to self sustain in a trial.

Maybe that's not how the devs intended this game to work.

Gronk

Changes has not even made it through pts iteration one

People need to come together on this one and stop the petty squabbles

If you look at the true totality of the changes and at the synergistic effects of the affected skills and set you will be surprised at how deep the cuts are. Not just sustain is on the chopping block. Other skills that you would not expect to be considered sustain actually trigger a sustain as a secondary effect, Such as caltops and its interaction with Briarheart

Endless hail also triggers sets a big Nerf on that. Every skill on the list triggers as a primary or a secondary something else. This is not the work product of one man but a team who have studied the data. You folks do not see it but homogenization is inbound in the name of server stability and money. It is about the money nothing else.

Even the old outdated Ebon armor got hit. Sure not much but it took 113 health from everyone in the group. Plague took another hit for no reason. so that is two nerfs in a year on der plague dokter for what reason other than no reason? No the reason is simple reduce health

Pets got hit on the healz and the dealz that stupid bird had some nice pocket healz

But in general as in all humanity it seems the loudest voices only speak to their own survival and not that of the groups.Every thing in the changes effect groups both pvp and pve. Both of those P's have created a divide and conquer mentality that zenimax exploits. The players put themselves on the street corner and they wonder why they are feeling like prostitutes.

In sum

Reduce health, reduce healing, reduce sustain(both group and individual) reduce dps .



Adapt or perish, now as ever, is nature's inexorable imperative. H. G. Wells