How long do people have to talk about the furnishing plan grind before it’s changed? It’s outrageous

wishlist14 · May 2019

I participated in the latest event and was gifted many murkmire and Alinor recipes aswell as redguard recipes from the event gold boxes. I got a purple and some green Elsweyr recipes from the documents satchel from the dragons and i can confirm i got 1 blue elsweyr recipe from a backpack i looted. I need more time to see how many more recipes I get in Elsweyr as it's still early days. Im happy so far.

Jayne_Doe · May 2019

idk wrote: »

If grinding to get what you want is an issue then you are playing the wrong game. This is obvious with the gear grind. There is no reason the furnishings grind should be any better since it is a secondary aspect of the game.

Except they introduced transmutation to alleviate some of that grind. I don't think it's out of the question to ask for something similar. They did this with MW, after all, by introducing furnishing documents that were twice the price of the regular documents. It's high time they introduced those for some of the other areas. We'd still have to grind vouchers, and it's still a random crap shoot as to which plans you get, but it would loosen things up a little.

No one here is asking for no grind, we're asking for slightly less of a grind by making it much less likely to get a base game plan in a DLC zone and thus more likely to get the desired plans we're farming when a plan finally does drop, or alternate means to obtain these plans, such as writ vouchers, similar to how transmute crystals have aided the gear grind.

ETA: I'm sure that players farming motif pages would be upset if base game motifs clogged that loot table, so that sometimes when you do get a motif page, it's for a base game motif. Or someone grinding gear in a trial or dungeon would sometime get overland gear instead.

mayasunrising · May 2019

After re-reading the OPs thread and the responses I kind of have a better understand. I'm onboard to. (Sorry, I got triggered by the word "grind" lol) It would be great to see the majority of the plans popping up in DLC or Expansion areas actually being related to those areas.

Tigerseye · May 2019

Olauron wrote: »

idk wrote: »

If grinding to get what you want is an issue then you are playing the wrong game. This is obvious with the gear grind. There is no reason the furnishings grind should be any better since it is a secondary aspect of the game.

That is another problem. ZOS is still thinking that housing is secondary aspect of the game while charging much more for the housing. There are houses that cost ten times more than dungeon DLCs. Then there are non-craftable furnishing items that cost as much as dungeon DLC or more for a single item. And yet somehow this is secondary aspect.

I know.

If it's such a "secondary" part of the game, then the prices (of both houses and furniture) should reflect that (i.e. they should be far lower) and far more of them should just be provided in-game, with relatively easy access to them.

It makes no sense, whatsoever, to describe an aspect of the game as "secondary" and then try to use that statement as justification for excessive grind and/or very high prices.

If, on the other hand, it's actually one of the primary aspects of the game, even if that is just in terms of the real money it brings in for ZoS, then it should be treated as such.

Far more attention should be paid to house design and to the housing community's concerns about housing and furnishing, houses and furnishings should be far more plentiful than they are (and always high enough res) and any issues should be dealt with on a priority basis.

You can't have it both ways, in other words.

Or, maybe, you can try to for a while, but in the end people will cotton on to it.

So far, I have got one purple plan.

I'm happy, in as far as it was my favourite bed design (it's beautiful!), but plentiful they are not.

Or, at least, not for me.

Tigerseye · May 2019

VaranisArano wrote: »

Olauron wrote: »

idk wrote: »

If grinding to get what you want is an issue then you are playing the wrong game. This is obvious with the gear grind. There is no reason the furnishings grind should be any better since it is a secondary aspect of the game.

That is another problem. ZOS is still thinking that housing is secondary aspect of the game while charging much more for the housing. There are houses that cost ten times more than dungeon DLCs. Then there are non-craftable furnishing items that cost as much as dungeon DLC or more for a single item. And yet somehow this is secondary aspect.

Now, I don't have access to ZOS' accountants, but I strongly suspect it IS a secondary aspect of the game. I may be rather cynical about how ZOS has handled the obvious monetization of housing, so take the following with that grain of salt.

For one, ZOS has stated that they get lots of players logging in when there's a new update and then falling away until the next time. That argues that Housing doesnt have staying power with the majority of the game's population. Most players come to ESO for story/dungeon releases and don't stick around. So ZOS' focus is going to be on the areas that attract players (new zones and dungeons) or the areas that have the most consistent draw for the most players (dungeons, trials, Cyrodiil, Battlegrounds). That's not to say they do nothing at all for housing, but rather to explain that Housing isn't a huge continuous draw for the majority of players the like of those other areas.

ZOS has to put developer energy where that effort leads to population, because players playing ESO is ultimately what keeps the lights on. Housing is comparatively low effort to making a new zone or dungeon as it's reusing a lot of assets the Devs already had to create for that other content that actually draws most players to ESO. Housing also doesnt provide the consistent revenue stream that comes from lots and lots of players playing the game, the way new zones, Dungeons, and Chapters provide predictable spikes in new and old player population.

IMO, Housing is obviously one of the most monetized aspects of the game. I think that's one of the reasons its a secondary aspect and why there are QOL issues like the grind for furnishings. Housing is useful but not essential, therefore its not pay to win - so its perfect for monetization through the crown store. It provides a second revenue stream for assets the Devs had to create anyways or reuses old assets through the Crown Store. Saying "It costs us so much to buy these houses!" Isn't really any statement of how important housing is to ESO, more like a commentary on how much they can monetize Housing for as little effort as possible. As for the grind, it's monetized in the same way as the DLC dungeon motifs or Welkynar. Either you grind (playing the game more) or you pay. I strongly suspect this is working as intended.

I understand the frustrations of the Housing Community. It sucks to feel like a part of the game you love is mostly treated as an avenue for monetization. Still, I suspect that Housing is a secondary feature precisely because its so monetized. Its great bang for the developer's buck - charging for assets they already had or take much less time to put together than the Zones or Dungeons which bring most players back to ESO or fixing up the existing dungeon/trial/PVP gamemodes to keep players occupied.

So in the end, I think that Housing has a dedicated community. But in terms of where Housing sits in the wider scope of ESO, I don't think it has the same draw as Dungeons, Cyrodiil, or new Zones. I strongly suspect that while the housing devs make an effort to sell the housing players what they say they want, Housing will continue to be monetized and to take a back seat to the New Zones, New Dungeons, New Chapters, and existing PVP gamemodes that draw the majority of players to ESO.

Sorry. It sucks if you really enjoy Housing and wish it werent so monetized or that the Devs would really spend the time and effort to make Housing as good as it could be. I don't expect it to happen. ESO's Housing is very monetized, will continue to be so, and I strongly expect it to continue to be an exercise in how little effort (compared to new DLC and Chapters, anyway) the devs can put in while still making their profit margin off it.

What a long post for 1 agree and 2 insightfuls.

We all know housing is over-monetised and overly grindy for what we get (i.e. very often re-used and/or hastily thrown together assets) and that is exactly what we're complaining about, here...

The bottom line is, if it is a money-maker for them, they need to put more effort into it; because that makes it a primary part of the game, whether you think that, or not.

...and if it is only a "secondary" part of the game, as you insist it is and they don't want to put more effort into it, then it needs to be made far cheaper and less grindy, to reflect that.

This isn't hard to understand.

...and I will just add that everyone knows that almost no one bothers (seriously) with raids, or trials, in games like this.

...and yet, they are still always treated like a primary part of the game, aren't they?

I'm sorry, but I'm not taking this blatant double standard anymore.

I'm getting to the point where I'm tempted to drag gender into this, even though I don't normally do that.

Even though only a few people do trials, most of them are male, so it's still "primary".

Whereas, lots of people do housing (relatively speaking), but many of them are girls, so it's "secondary"?

Is that what we're saying here, hmmm...?

Tigerseye · May 2019

mayasunrising wrote: »

Personally, I'm okay with rare plans being rare, and okay with having to grind to get them. That said, I don't think the drop rates for Elsewyr plans are all that horrid. 2 nights ago I spent about an hour slaying dragons. In that time I picked two purple plans, about 4 blue, and a score of fun green ones. And pretty much every day I go on and hunt dragons a bit I'm getting more. so I think it is better.

But again, I'm coming from a mindset that in a persistent world MMO things should take time, and epic/legendary items should be rarities.

I've slayed at least a hundred dragons (probably more - got my 50 dragon achievement four days ago) and not one purple blueprint.

Got a couple (literally, a couple!) of blue ones and a few greens (definitely less than 15 - probably less than 10).

My only purple I got from a container.

You were very lucky.

Jayne_Doe · July 2019

Hey all! I noticed from the PTS patch notes that we're finally getting furnishing documents for Summerset and Clockwork City! Better late than never, I guess.