Sorc nerfs. Again. PvE perspective
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Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »Nerf to aoe (half of the sorc toolkit), nerf to lightning splash itself, no buff to crystal frag (no, its not buffed, thats why they stated it retains the previous damage), nerf to shield, nerf to pets (other half of sorc toolkit). Good job, Zenimax, I see the people making these changes obviously play nightblade.
I can agree with you if they only nerf magsorc this harshly, but ZOS nerfed EVERYONE!
I'm quite ok with the pets nerf however, they are way too overpeforming for how little effort they require, while non-pet magsorc takes a lot more skill and finesse somehow deal less damage.
Pets are basically training wheels. If you cannot pull decent dps without them, then you're not worthy to call yourself a magsorc imo. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but that's my stand on this matter.
In my opinion (Templar main, Sorc alt).
ZOS nerfs AOE Dots- all my petsorc but daedric are aoe dots: blockade, lighning splash, volatile familiar. Nerf
Matriatch DPS nerf - 69% is ALOT i´d say easily 3-4k DPS.
Shields nerf - sure, i also dont use many due i have Matriarch heals, but still useful. Now cost 600 more magicka and protect for less.
This means a HEAVY nerf to a PvE Sorc. Heavy. And we´re talking about a class which was UNDERPERFORMING in DPS charts compared with stamina classes!! Its only balance was supposedly to bring some group usefulness in the way of group heals, and better survability. Still, best groups will use NBs and Necros over Sorcs. Even Templars get more dmg...
After this patch, the DPS gap will be deeper and Sorcs won´t have these tools which mitigate the gap. I understand pet sorcs were a liability in PvP, although again, they weren´t topping charts there either. But the solution is to get such a nerf (and it´s not the first one lately) will mean the class will be subpar. Check, not every class can be useful at either stamina or magicka, but Sorcerer after patch won´t be needed on any kind of PvE content. Even wardens will have a better spot.
Sure that matriarch could be overperforming... on a class which wasn´t. You cannot just read one skill. You must see the whole. Magicka right now underperforms over Stamina. If you take defences out, stamina builds will have better heals - vigor that takes just a single slot. People say pets are too good but many forget what means to waste 2 precious slots in one single skill -, better survability due better resists and able to dodge/break free better, and more DPS.
To be honest, i don´t feel it fair. I will probably keep playing my Templar healer but will switch to my necro stamina for DPSing. Just comparing magicka and stamina DPS endgame sets is a joke. Now we got that...8 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭StormChaser3000 wrote: »[removed quote]
Wrong.
"Destructive Reach (morph): This morph retains the unique functionality for each elemental staff type you choose, but no longer deals damage over time."
i´m 99% sure this is meant to be destructive clench that keeps the cc.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 500 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭StormChaser3000 wrote: »[removed quote]
Wrong.
"Destructive Reach (morph): This morph retains the unique functionality for each elemental staff type you choose, but no longer deals damage over time."
i´m 99% sure this is meant to be destructive clench that keeps the cc.
I am 100% sure.0 -
rocket343Soul ShrivenPets being a major component of sorc dps was due for a nerf. There is no place for constant auto-attack damage in this game. The only people who should be mad about this are people that rely on not having to press buttons to do damage. Mag is getting 3 new DoTs (soul trap, entropy, volcanic rune), I'm sure there will be plenty of skills to fill those 2 bar slots.Azog Beer-Hammer- Orc Stamplar (PvP)
Kill Six Billion Daedra - Orc Stamplar (PvE)2 -
CambionDaemon✭✭✭But why should any class have to sort skills from outside their toolkit, especially when they get a bonus to having their class skill equipped. Not that I disagree with the pet changes, but I hate pets and they should be removed from the Sorcerer line and made a world skill line.1
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Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »ArvenAldmeri wrote: »Nerf to aoe (half of the sorc toolkit), nerf to lightning splash itself, no buff to crystal frag (no, its not buffed, thats why they stated it retains the previous damage), nerf to shield, nerf to pets (other half of sorc toolkit). Good job, Zenimax, I see the people making these changes obviously play nightblade.
I can agree with you if they only nerf magsorc this harshly, but ZOS nerfed EVERYONE!
I'm quite ok with the pets nerf however, they are way too overpeforming for how little effort they require, while non-pet magsorc takes a lot more skill and finesse somehow deal less damage.
Pets are basically training wheels. If you cannot pull decent dps without them, then you're not worthy to call yourself a magsorc imo. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but that's my stand on this matter.
In my opinion (Templar main, Sorc alt).
ZOS nerfs AOE Dots- all my petsorc but daedric are aoe dots: blockade, lighning splash, volatile familiar. Nerf
Matriatch DPS nerf - 69% is ALOT i´d say easily 3-4k DPS.
Shields nerf - sure, i also dont use many due i have Matriarch heals, but still useful. Now cost 600 more magicka and protect for less.
This means a HEAVY nerf to a PvE Sorc. Heavy. And we´re talking about a class which was UNDERPERFORMING in DPS charts compared with stamina classes!! Its only balance was supposedly to bring some group usefulness in the way of group heals, and better survability. Still, best groups will use NBs and Necros over Sorcs. Even Templars get more dmg...
After this patch, the DPS gap will be deeper and Sorcs won´t have these tools which mitigate the gap. I understand pet sorcs were a liability in PvP, although again, they weren´t topping charts there either. But the solution is to get such a nerf (and it´s not the first one lately) will mean the class will be subpar. Check, not every class can be useful at either stamina or magicka, but Sorcerer after patch won´t be needed on any kind of PvE content. Even wardens will have a better spot.
Sure that matriarch could be overperforming... on a class which wasn´t. You cannot just read one skill. You must see the whole. Magicka right now underperforms over Stamina. If you take defences out, stamina builds will have better heals - vigor that takes just a single slot. People say pets are too good but many forget what means to waste 2 precious slots in one single skill -, better survability due better resists and able to dodge/break free better, and more DPS.
To be honest, i don´t feel it fair. I will probably keep playing my Templar healer but will switch to my necro stamina for DPSing. Just comparing magicka and stamina DPS endgame sets is a joke. Now we got that...
Not sure if you're aware of this, put petsorc is very desired in trial score run for 3 very simple reasons:
1. Their dps is not UNDERPERFORMING, not 1 bit. I can pull 90k on my 1 pet setup on live, and for perspective, I can pull 96k dps on a stamcro on PTS (the Elsweyr PTS). So that's hardly 6k dps lost, that's less than 10% of petsorc total dps. Not to mention the amount of synergy + major berserk they can provide.
2. They are SO MUCH EASIER TO PLAY. Petsorc rotation is far more easier than a lot of other class with 0 buff to maintain and only curst + twilight timer to keep an eye on.
3. They are much more unlikely to lose dps when the fight requires some leg work, aka running around, dodging and doing mechanic. The pet deals most of the dps, and petsorcs don't need any kind of complicated setup, just 2 AOE DOT and 1 curse.2 -
CambionDaemon✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »ArvenAldmeri wrote: »Nerf to aoe (half of the sorc toolkit), nerf to lightning splash itself, no buff to crystal frag (no, its not buffed, thats why they stated it retains the previous damage), nerf to shield, nerf to pets (other half of sorc toolkit). Good job, Zenimax, I see the people making these changes obviously play nightblade.
I can agree with you if they only nerf magsorc this harshly, but ZOS nerfed EVERYONE!
I'm quite ok with the pets nerf however, they are way too overpeforming for how little effort they require, while non-pet magsorc takes a lot more skill and finesse somehow deal less damage.
Pets are basically training wheels. If you cannot pull decent dps without them, then you're not worthy to call yourself a magsorc imo. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but that's my stand on this matter.
In my opinion (Templar main, Sorc alt).
ZOS nerfs AOE Dots- all my petsorc but daedric are aoe dots: blockade, lighning splash, volatile familiar. Nerf
Matriatch DPS nerf - 69% is ALOT i´d say easily 3-4k DPS.
Shields nerf - sure, i also dont use many due i have Matriarch heals, but still useful. Now cost 600 more magicka and protect for less.
This means a HEAVY nerf to a PvE Sorc. Heavy. And we´re talking about a class which was UNDERPERFORMING in DPS charts compared with stamina classes!! Its only balance was supposedly to bring some group usefulness in the way of group heals, and better survability. Still, best groups will use NBs and Necros over Sorcs. Even Templars get more dmg...
After this patch, the DPS gap will be deeper and Sorcs won´t have these tools which mitigate the gap. I understand pet sorcs were a liability in PvP, although again, they weren´t topping charts there either. But the solution is to get such a nerf (and it´s not the first one lately) will mean the class will be subpar. Check, not every class can be useful at either stamina or magicka, but Sorcerer after patch won´t be needed on any kind of PvE content. Even wardens will have a better spot.
Sure that matriarch could be overperforming... on a class which wasn´t. You cannot just read one skill. You must see the whole. Magicka right now underperforms over Stamina. If you take defences out, stamina builds will have better heals - vigor that takes just a single slot. People say pets are too good but many forget what means to waste 2 precious slots in one single skill -, better survability due better resists and able to dodge/break free better, and more DPS.
To be honest, i don´t feel it fair. I will probably keep playing my Templar healer but will switch to my necro stamina for DPSing. Just comparing magicka and stamina DPS endgame sets is a joke. Now we got that...
Not sure if you're aware of this, put petsorc is very desired in trial score run for 3 very simple reasons:
1. Their dps is not UNDERPERFORMING, not 1 bit. I can pull 90k on my 1 pet setup on live, and for perspective, I can pull 96k dps on a stamcro on PTS (the Elsweyr PTS). So that's hardly 6k dps lost, that's less than 10% of petsorc total dps. Not to mention the amount of synergy + major berserk they can provide.
2. They are SO MUCH EASIER TO PLAY. Petsorc rotation is far more easier than a lot of other class with 0 buff to maintain and only curst + twilight timer to keep an eye on.
3. They are much more unlikely to lose dps when the fight requires some leg work, aka running around, dodging and doing mechanic. The pet deals most of the dps, and petsorcs don't need any kind of complicated setup, just 2 AOE DOT and 1 curse.
I think he was saying that MagSorc is underperforming, not the Matriarch underperforming. Non-pet is underperforming.3 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭
Not sure if you're aware of this, put petsorc is very desired in trial score run for 3 very simple reasons:
1. Their dps is not UNDERPERFORMING, not 1 bit. I can pull 90k on my 1 pet setup on live, and for perspective, I can pull 96k dps on a stamcro on PTS (the Elsweyr PTS). So that's hardly 6k dps lost, that's less than 10% of petsorc total dps. Not to mention the amount of synergy + major berserk they can provide.
2. They are SO MUCH EASIER TO PLAY. Petsorc rotation is far more easier than a lot of other class with 0 buff to maintain and only curst + twilight timer to keep an eye on.
3. They are much more unlikely to lose dps when the fight requires some leg work, aka running around, dodging and doing mechanic. The pet deals most of the dps, and petsorcs don't need any kind of complicated setup, just 2 AOE DOT and 1 curse.
Ive seen DPS charts taken by ZOS itself. They´re out there. Sorcs were like 6th or so. 90k on ST on live? Video or not happening.
Easier to play? Sure. That doesn´t mean much for balance issues. My templar has easier rotation imho. Easier rotation dont have to mean worse DPS. And actually, as i said and there are charts to prove it, sorcs have worse DPS ...
Won´t lose DPS? Depends on build. Petsorcs rely on HAs and you lose them if you have to move. If the boss move, you lose your ground AOE, etc...
Pets deal most of the DPS? So you´re saying that a pet is doing most of your 90k DPS. Wow, now i really want to see that video of yours...
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Lylith✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »Shield nerf is needed, current state of shield stacking is purely broken but other nerfs are unjustifiedPets being a major component of sorc dps was due for a nerf. There is no place for constant auto-attack damage in this game. The only people who should be mad about this are people that rely on not having to press buttons to do damage. Mag is getting 3 new DoTs (soul trap, entropy, volcanic rune), I'm sure there will be plenty of skills to fill those 2 bar slots.
that's four slots, fwiw.
it used to be six.
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Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Pets being a major component of sorc dps was due for a nerf. There is no place for constant auto-attack damage in this game. The only people who should be mad about this are people that rely on not having to press buttons to do damage. Mag is getting 3 new DoTs (soul trap, entropy, volcanic rune), I'm sure there will be plenty of skills to fill those 2 bar slots.
Autoattack = dot. Ok, you have to refresh... like Sorcs do with volatile pulse. Such "autoattack" is worth 2 slots, btw. People tend to forget they´re not free. Actually, autoattack means adding DPS. Many slotted passive skills also add DPS, like MageLight, for example. You dont have to press buttons and yet you deal more damage.
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ArvenAldmeri✭✭✭✭✭ArvenAldmeri wrote: »Nerf to aoe (half of the sorc toolkit), nerf to lightning splash itself, no buff to crystal frag (no, its not buffed, thats why they stated it retains the previous damage), nerf to shield, nerf to pets (other half of sorc toolkit). Good job, Zenimax, I see the people making these changes obviously play nightblade.
I can agree with you if they only nerf magsorc this harshly, but ZOS nerfed EVERYONE!
I'm quite ok with the pets nerf however, they are way too overpeforming for how little effort they require, while non-pet magsorc takes a lot more skill and finesse somehow deal less damage.
Pets are basically training wheels. If you cannot pull decent dps without them, then you're not worthy to call yourself a magsorc imo. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but that's my stand on this matter.
"If you cannot pull decent dps without them, then you're not worthy to call yourself a magsorc imo." This is not about cannot pull decent dps, but about not pulling best dps as u can pull with them. Thats why they are used. 99% of sorcs hate pets and wanna play without them, but their damage output (without any doubt and discussion, u are blind if u think its not true) is way higher than that of anyone without pet. No matter how good the person is, he is always gonna do better dps with pet. So its not about if we can or cannot. Its about whats the best, and pets are the best, otherwise no one would use them. And truth is, without pets sorc wont be welcome to trials as much as any other class that can outdps them.Magicka sorcerer from start until the end. Always. Through the good times and the bad, even now when its probably saddest PvE dps it has ever been.
Even as an owner of one radiant apex mounts I am against radiant apex mounts and anything thats not obtainable by direct purchase.3 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭The issue is that Sorc skills are hard to sustain. Very. Other classes get better ways and skills for doing so; my Templar has one skill that gives him 240 magicka every second. Sorcs dont get nothing similar, just a channeled skill which hurts rotations. If we get better spammables, and cheaper ones (hell, every time i see my Warden´s bird, or the bow´s options, and i check my Destro staff options and my Sorcerer spammables, i understand many things). If we could add better solutions to a rotation, then MAYBE we wouldn´t need the pets. Which is something many Sorc players want, btw.
Pets nerf coupled with AOE nerf, plus shield nerf, will be a big hit on the class performance. Let´s hope people playing on PST can give good feedback on it so ZOS reconsiders it.2 -
ArvenAldmeri✭✭✭✭✭@ZOS_JesC Can u please close this thread as there is already sorcerer feedback post now open?Magicka sorcerer from start until the end. Always. Through the good times and the bad, even now when its probably saddest PvE dps it has ever been.
Even as an owner of one radiant apex mounts I am against radiant apex mounts and anything thats not obtainable by direct purchase.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Sorcerer feedback brings diff issues i think (also maybe from a more positive way than this thread).0
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FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I've played sorcerer since beta. Years ago, I wrote one of the main sorcerer leveling guides. But:- Pet builds are kind of boring, with 2 skill slots per pet not leaving room for much else.
- With the new homogenization, there's little need to play multiple classes for the same general purpose. So I'll likely pick one magicka class to focus on ...
- ... and it won't be sorcerer. Instead ...
- ... it will be templar, which for obvious reasons is my main healing class as well.
I expect templar to simply be more fun than sorcerer, and at least as strong.
Other people might pick magblade or whatever. I just tend to have more fun on magplar than magblade, and also know the class better because of all the healing I've done with it.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭FrancisCrawford wrote: »I've played sorcerer since beta. Years ago, I wrote one of the main sorcerer leveling guides. But:
- Pet builds are kind of boring, with 2 skill slots per pet not leaving room for much else.
- With the new homogenization, there's little need to play multiple classes for the same general purpose. So I'll likely pick one magicka class to focus on ...
- ... and it won't be sorcerer. Instead ...
- ... it will be templar, which for obvious reasons is my main healing class as well.
I expect templar to simply be more fun than sorcerer, and at least as strong.
Other people might pick magblade or whatever. I just tend to have more fun on magplar than magblade, and also know the class better because of all the healing I've done with it.
Templar is my main, with Sorc as a close alt. If things keeps this way, i will try that new necro stamina DPS, many morphs and great dropage. Sorc will be a class that for much i master it, it won´t give me the results other classes do. Considering how easy is to lvl one toon, well, why dont have one of each, and play just the ones not hitting by the nerfing bat? That´s what i plan to do: Templar PvE healing and PvP, Warden PvP, stamcro PvE DPS, and Sorc for doing writs
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EJ42Soul ShrivenGreetings, we've removed a handful of nonconstructive comments that were derailing the thread. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments on topic and constructive so a conversation can take place. Thank you.
I just want to thank the team for the extra $15 per month I have to blow on random things now that I've cancelled my ESO+ membership.
The only thing I really did in ESO was solo PvE stuff, so now I can focus my time on going through my Steam queue of unplayed games.5 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »Shield nerf is needed, current state of shield stacking is purely broken but other nerfs are unjustified
They should have done away with shield stacking a long time ago. It has been the number one complaint against sorcs since launch. All they need to do is make annulment and conjured ward unable to stack. Even a hacked in buff they they apply which would cause one to override the other would work and that would fix the shield stack.0 -
Saril_Durzam✭✭✭✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »Shield nerf is needed, current state of shield stacking is purely broken but other nerfs are unjustified
They should have done away with shield stacking a long time ago. It has been the number one complaint against sorcs since launch. All they need to do is make annulment and conjured ward unable to stack. Even a hacked in buff they they apply which would cause one to override the other would work and that would fix the shield stack.
Agree. Forbid shield stacking. It´s worth just in Pvp maybe.0 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »Lord_Eomer wrote: »Shield nerf is needed, current state of shield stacking is purely broken but other nerfs are unjustified
They should have done away with shield stacking a long time ago. It has been the number one complaint against sorcs since launch. All they need to do is make annulment and conjured ward unable to stack. Even a hacked in buff they they apply which would cause one to override the other would work and that would fix the shield stack.
Agree. Forbid shield stacking. It´s worth just in Pvp maybe.
They could do it globally. Good PVE players would never stack shields. Most of them don't even use shields anymore because of how badly they were nerfed in Murkmire. Funny thing is apparently that wasn't enough since they have nerfed it again in the patches since.0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »Shield nerf is needed, current state of shield stacking is purely broken but other nerfs are unjustified
They should have done away with shield stacking a long time ago. It has been the number one complaint against sorcs since launch. All they need to do is make annulment and conjured ward unable to stack. Even a hacked in buff they they apply which would cause one to override the other would work and that would fix the shield stack.
A couple of things then. 1. harden ward would need to be increased its already too small in BG's. 2. So if we make them non stackable then as a sorc I can't use the light armor skill? That doesn't seem like a fair trade off. Every other armor class skill can be used without a restriction.Edited by bardx86 on July 8, 2019 8:20PM0 -
Shantu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭People seem to forget that running pets takes up 40% or your bar space. For that kind of investment in bar real estate they SHOULD return some decent value. But the message behind nerfing the Twilight for 69% damage per hit basically says "Don't use this skill!". That is just WAY over the top. And so what if current pet sorc rotation is easy. It still will not outperform other classes in dps. Besides, not everyone is capable of being finger gnarling wizard and this build offered some reprieve in that regard. You're just stripping away a lot of fun from this build for a lot of players. It's a SORCERER! It should have some built-in magical skills that other classed don't. You rarely, if ever, see pet sorc builds running vet trial content with elite groups. There's a reason. To further nerf these builds doesn't make much sense.
And further nerfing of shields? After the inexcusable neutering they got from the last Nerfmire fiasco, for a Sorc dps build, shields are basically worthless as it is now. Because PVP players stack them is no reason to further gut them. As it has been mentioned many times before, if shield stacking is a problem, then prevent stacking. That should have been the solution to the previous pre-Nerfmire issue. But for heaven's sake leave our measly little paper mache shields alone!
If people have issues with sorcs in PVP, then address the issue there. But in PVE, there is absolute no excuse for further emaciating this class.4 -
validifyedneb18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Do what I do.
Hug yourself while crying in the corner like a madman, and keep telling yourself that one day Sorc (specifically stamsorc for me) will become so *** they will HAVE to do something to it.EU: Magden, Magknight, Stamsorc(*2), Magsorc
NA: Magplar, Magden, PotatoBlade1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »Shield nerf is needed, current state of shield stacking is purely broken but other nerfs are unjustified
They should have done away with shield stacking a long time ago. It has been the number one complaint against sorcs since launch. All they need to do is make annulment and conjured ward unable to stack. Even a hacked in buff they they apply which would cause one to override the other would work and that would fix the shield stack.
Maybe give sorcs better heals without pets and give them proper defensive skills/passives? More than 90% of sorcs who stack shoelds are non pet sorcs, pet sorcs usually get away with hardened ward as the have their matriach to heal them. Non pet sorcs stack to heal form resto healing ward or regenration.
Anyone saying dark deal/conversion is a burst heal is very ignorant, make breath of life/dragon blood and other instant heal skills intureptable and see how people react to that. Just because sorcs can dark deal and nobody inturept them, does not mean it a good heal, worst "burst heal" in all classes.
Streak has a penalty on it, and take a heavy toll on stam/mag sorc magicka pool, unlike any other gap closer or say "cloak". Straeak is easliy countered, all you have to do is just immoblaze the guy or stun them right after they streak. Ball of lightening is bugged and does not pull and projectile before or after teleport.1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Lord_Eomer wrote: »Shield nerf is needed, current state of shield stacking is purely broken but other nerfs are unjustified
They should have done away with shield stacking a long time ago. It has been the number one complaint against sorcs since launch. All they need to do is make annulment and conjured ward unable to stack. Even a hacked in buff they they apply which would cause one to override the other would work and that would fix the shield stack.
A couple of things then. 1. harden ward would need to be increased its already too small in BG's. 2. So if we make them non stackable then as a sorc I can't use the light armor skill? That doesn't seem like a fair trade off. Every other armor class skill can be used without a restriction.
Can we make shimmer shield/ sun shield/ healing ward/ opsidain shield/ bone shield/ non stackable with light arnor as well? If we do that, 80% of light armor playstyle will be gone in no time.0 -
KBKB✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah, nah. I'm not liking this as a playing from beta sorc main.
A few points tho;
ZOS you need to leave us alone for God's sake! Always with the nerf bat on sorcs! we all know previous ward changes were meant to be a nerf but you messed it up and players adapted it to a buff.
Just make pets do 80% less damage and unable to be targeted give them a slightly more utility feel with each morph *cough* Stamina *cough*.
Bads probably shouldn't have been crutching on using poor targeting mechanics behind a zoo of pets, it has got us to this point no doubt.1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭Saril_Durzam wrote: »
Not sure if you're aware of this, put petsorc is very desired in trial score run for 3 very simple reasons:
1. Their dps is not UNDERPERFORMING, not 1 bit. I can pull 90k on my 1 pet setup on live, and for perspective, I can pull 96k dps on a stamcro on PTS (the Elsweyr PTS). So that's hardly 6k dps lost, that's less than 10% of petsorc total dps. Not to mention the amount of synergy + major berserk they can provide.
2. They are SO MUCH EASIER TO PLAY. Petsorc rotation is far more easier than a lot of other class with 0 buff to maintain and only curst + twilight timer to keep an eye on.
3. They are much more unlikely to lose dps when the fight requires some leg work, aka running around, dodging and doing mechanic. The pet deals most of the dps, and petsorcs don't need any kind of complicated setup, just 2 AOE DOT and 1 curse.
Ive seen DPS charts taken by ZOS itself. They´re out there. Sorcs were like 6th or so. 90k on ST on live? Video or not happening.
Easier to play? Sure. That doesn´t mean much for balance issues. My templar has easier rotation imho. Easier rotation dont have to mean worse DPS. And actually, as i said and there are charts to prove it, sorcs have worse DPS ...
Won´t lose DPS? Depends on build. Petsorcs rely on HAs and you lose them if you have to move. If the boss move, you lose your ground AOE, etc...
Pets deal most of the DPS? So you´re saying that a pet is doing most of your 90k DPS. Wow, now i really want to see that video of yours...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N9spInKIgM&t=25s
Not sure why you sound like I was a lying moron when you can easily prove my point by just typing petsorc dps parse on youtube...1 -
Pr0Skygon✭✭✭✭✭CambionDaemon wrote: »Saril_Durzam wrote: »ArvenAldmeri wrote: »Nerf to aoe (half of the sorc toolkit), nerf to lightning splash itself, no buff to crystal frag (no, its not buffed, thats why they stated it retains the previous damage), nerf to shield, nerf to pets (other half of sorc toolkit). Good job, Zenimax, I see the people making these changes obviously play nightblade.
I can agree with you if they only nerf magsorc this harshly, but ZOS nerfed EVERYONE!
I'm quite ok with the pets nerf however, they are way too overpeforming for how little effort they require, while non-pet magsorc takes a lot more skill and finesse somehow deal less damage.
Pets are basically training wheels. If you cannot pull decent dps without them, then you're not worthy to call yourself a magsorc imo. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but that's my stand on this matter.
In my opinion (Templar main, Sorc alt).
ZOS nerfs AOE Dots- all my petsorc but daedric are aoe dots: blockade, lighning splash, volatile familiar. Nerf
Matriatch DPS nerf - 69% is ALOT i´d say easily 3-4k DPS.
Shields nerf - sure, i also dont use many due i have Matriarch heals, but still useful. Now cost 600 more magicka and protect for less.
This means a HEAVY nerf to a PvE Sorc. Heavy. And we´re talking about a class which was UNDERPERFORMING in DPS charts compared with stamina classes!! Its only balance was supposedly to bring some group usefulness in the way of group heals, and better survability. Still, best groups will use NBs and Necros over Sorcs. Even Templars get more dmg...
After this patch, the DPS gap will be deeper and Sorcs won´t have these tools which mitigate the gap. I understand pet sorcs were a liability in PvP, although again, they weren´t topping charts there either. But the solution is to get such a nerf (and it´s not the first one lately) will mean the class will be subpar. Check, not every class can be useful at either stamina or magicka, but Sorcerer after patch won´t be needed on any kind of PvE content. Even wardens will have a better spot.
Sure that matriarch could be overperforming... on a class which wasn´t. You cannot just read one skill. You must see the whole. Magicka right now underperforms over Stamina. If you take defences out, stamina builds will have better heals - vigor that takes just a single slot. People say pets are too good but many forget what means to waste 2 precious slots in one single skill -, better survability due better resists and able to dodge/break free better, and more DPS.
To be honest, i don´t feel it fair. I will probably keep playing my Templar healer but will switch to my necro stamina for DPSing. Just comparing magicka and stamina DPS endgame sets is a joke. Now we got that...
Not sure if you're aware of this, put petsorc is very desired in trial score run for 3 very simple reasons:
1. Their dps is not UNDERPERFORMING, not 1 bit. I can pull 90k on my 1 pet setup on live, and for perspective, I can pull 96k dps on a stamcro on PTS (the Elsweyr PTS). So that's hardly 6k dps lost, that's less than 10% of petsorc total dps. Not to mention the amount of synergy + major berserk they can provide.
2. They are SO MUCH EASIER TO PLAY. Petsorc rotation is far more easier than a lot of other class with 0 buff to maintain and only curst + twilight timer to keep an eye on.
3. They are much more unlikely to lose dps when the fight requires some leg work, aka running around, dodging and doing mechanic. The pet deals most of the dps, and petsorcs don't need any kind of complicated setup, just 2 AOE DOT and 1 curse.
I think he was saying that MagSorc is underperforming, not the Matriarch underperforming. Non-pet is underperforming.
I can partly agree that non pet sorc is underperforming. The number isn't far behind top tier dps, and even non-pet magsorc still have have minor prophecy group buff and 2 synergies, including major berserk.
But sure, I think there are certain room for improvement. For example: increase the Lightning Splash synergy damage, increase the bonus passive from Bound Aegis, etc.0
This discussion has been closed.