Magicka Nightblade really really needs group utility and survivability

mb10 · June 2019

The passives that are granted for Nightblades really need more group utility. Minor savagery is useless to all magicka classes and doesn’t do much as it is compared to the minor toughness from warden.

The skills all lack synergies or group support and there are barely any AoE heals/attacks to help the team in PVP aspects.

Path of darkness is useless compared to wall of elements

Malevolent offering is incredibly detrimental as you can’t use it on yourself. I think the only heal in the game that does that oh and btw you lose health casting it.

Grim focus got gutted lol that skill is basically dead now.

Magicka Nightblade needs serious buffs for group play, survivability and PVP
Only thing that can save it if it doesn’t get that is spell crafting

ecru · June 2019

I agree it could probably use more to make it attractive to a group but fear (Mass Hysteria) is good group utility atm after the changes. It's one of the strongest CC's in the game now that targets don't run away, it effects 6 targets now instead of 2, and also applies a debuff/snare.

Iskiab · June 2019

Merciless is good too, being at 5 stacks is 15% mitigation which is a lot.

Where the class is lacking is definitely group utility and self healing, but mitigation’s good.

f047ys3v3n · June 2019

It's bad. I played magblade for a few years as my main, played it when it was officially supposed to be weaksauce, I even played it for a bit after the change to relentless that was supposed to make it BIS.

First off, I don't think it was ever really good after morrowind when sustain was wrecked and magblade lost it's siphoning strikes. I know it was officially BIS for a long time after that according to the guys who everybody listens to but I don't think so. It was a build dependent on sustaining a light rotation and I could never sustain after that patch.

Magblade has endured major nerfs at least 3 times since then. It has lost all passive group support heals (which were the special sauce that made it good,) it's self heals are garbage, and it's DOT's were never any good but are even weaker now.

A lot of the hate on, and nerfs to, magblade never had anything to do with the actual merits of the class. A lot of cheaters gravitated to nightblade in PVP simply because cloak allowed them to get away with more cheats. You could cloak and bunny hop invisibly so far away people would basically never find you. You could use your cloak to sneek up on folks and then drop your cheat buffed abilities for an insta-kill making many think that fairly weak NB abilities like sap essence were OP. ZOS would get so many complaints they would nerf stuff. NB's took nerf after nerf to what were already weak abilities because of this.

At this point I consider magblade a broken class. It has perhaps weakest self heals of any class (ironic given it's past,) poor group support abilities (again ironic,) probably the weakest DOT's (they were never really very good,) a rotation that is a total mess in PVE (again ironic as it was easy pre-morrowind,) and poor sustain (another previous strength.) Now that esologs are around it is becoming clear just how bad magblade dps has become but this is really only the tip of the iceburg when it comes to the problems with magblade. It's survivability, sustain, utility, and ease of use are even worse than it's 99th percentile dps performance. I know it's now generally a stam world but even for magica, trashblade is the hind end in so many ways. I don't expect to ever go back because I don't think ZOS will ever fix the cheats problems and without a fix people will never stop begging for NB nerfs.

mb10 · June 2019

@f047ys3v3n

I also had my main as a mag nb for years and even got grand overlord and think the exact same thing as you

No one really sees it unless they really played msg nb for years and saw them get nerfed every patch

Such a shame the class is completely gutted now. No sustain, poor dps, poor AoE attacks, poor burst heal, path of darkness gutted, vitality from strife done and the list goes on and on

Compare the shadow ult to the ults in warden and necromancer. Complete joke

Savos_Saren · June 2019

I'm having an absolute blast on my MagBlade right now. I would love to see minor prophecy added to minor savagery on our passive, though.

Savos_Saren · June 2019

mb10 wrote: »

The passives that are granted for Nightblades really need more group utility. Minor savagery is useless to all magicka classes and doesn’t do much as it is compared to the minor toughness from warden.

The skills all lack synergies or group support and there are barely any AoE heals/attacks to help the team in PVP aspects.

Path of darkness is useless compared to wall of elements

Malevolent offering is incredibly detrimental as you can’t use it on yourself. I think the only heal in the game that does that oh and btw you lose health casting it.

Grim focus got gutted lol that skill is basically dead now.

Magicka Nightblade needs serious buffs for group play, survivability and PVP
Only thing that can save it if it doesn’t get that is spell crafting

For the bolded part: You're joking, right? We have some of the best AOE heals/attacks. My Innate/War Maiden/Slimecraw MagBlade is shredding enemies and healing my group. Sap Essence is amazingly good. Refreshing Path gives heals and major expedition to everyone who passes through it. I wish they left a small damage component on Refreshing Path, though.

Grim Focus is still strong- we've got a hard hitting Spectral Bow and 15% damage mitigation. My only complaint is that it seems like (in PVP) the 5 light attacks is more like 7-8 light attacks.

Adernath · June 2019

mb10 wrote: »

The passives that are granted for Nightblades really need more group utility. Minor savagery is useless to all magicka classes and doesn’t do much as it is compared to the minor toughness from warden.

The skills all lack synergies or group support and there are barely any AoE heals/attacks to help the team in PVP aspects.

Path of darkness is useless compared to wall of elements

Malevolent offering is incredibly detrimental as you can’t use it on yourself. I think the only heal in the game that does that oh and btw you lose health casting it.

Grim focus got gutted lol that skill is basically dead now.

Magicka Nightblade needs serious buffs for group play, survivability and PVP
Only thing that can save it if it doesn’t get that is spell crafting

My class can not do what the other class can do... bohoo! How about you accept that there is some form of class diversity in the game? If you figured out that you don't like the shady playstile, then roll a warden.

With cloak you have more than enough survivability in PvP.

robpr · June 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

I'm having an absolute blast on my MagBlade right now. I would love to see minor prophecy added to minor savagery on our passive, though.

Minor prophecy is sorcs thing.

mb10 · June 2019

Adernath wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

The passives that are granted for Nightblades really need more group utility. Minor savagery is useless to all magicka classes and doesn’t do much as it is compared to the minor toughness from warden.

The skills all lack synergies or group support and there are barely any AoE heals/attacks to help the team in PVP aspects.

Path of darkness is useless compared to wall of elements

Malevolent offering is incredibly detrimental as you can’t use it on yourself. I think the only heal in the game that does that oh and btw you lose health casting it.

Grim focus got gutted lol that skill is basically dead now.

Magicka Nightblade needs serious buffs for group play, survivability and PVP
Only thing that can save it if it doesn’t get that is spell crafting

My class can not do what the other class can do... bohoo! How about you accept that there is some form of class diversity in the game? If you figured out that you don't like the shady playstile, then roll a warden. With cloak you have more than enough survivability in PvP.

@Adernath

Boo hoo? Lmao I got grand overlord on my mag NB destroying players like you.
I don’t care that it’s not like other classes I’m on the few overlord mag NBs so I know about the class well, but it’s simply below par compared to others in GROUP play which is why you never see *good* PvP groups with a mag nb

mb10 · June 2019

Savos_Saren wrote: »

mb10 wrote: »

The passives that are granted for Nightblades really need more group utility. Minor savagery is useless to all magicka classes and doesn’t do much as it is compared to the minor toughness from warden.

The skills all lack synergies or group support and there are barely any AoE heals/attacks to help the team in PVP aspects.

Path of darkness is useless compared to wall of elements

Malevolent offering is incredibly detrimental as you can’t use it on yourself. I think the only heal in the game that does that oh and btw you lose health casting it.

Grim focus got gutted lol that skill is basically dead now.

Magicka Nightblade needs serious buffs for group play, survivability and PVP
Only thing that can save it if it doesn’t get that is spell crafting

For the bolded part: You're joking, right? We have some of the best AOE heals/attacks. My Innate/War Maiden/Slimecraw MagBlade is shredding enemies and healing my group. Sap Essence is amazingly good. Refreshing Path gives heals and major expedition to everyone who passes through it. I wish they left a small damage component on Refreshing Path, though.

Grim Focus is still strong- we've got a hard hitting Spectral Bow and 15% damage mitigation. My only complaint is that it seems like (in PVP) the 5 light attacks is more like 7-8 light attacks.

That’s an awful build and the slimecraw doesn’t even affect the heals of a mag NB.

The heal on a very high Magicka build is still less than 2k tooltip so 1k in PvP plus the additional targets, it won’t exceed a 2k tick realistically and if you’re that outnumbered you won’t survive most likely with the mag nb set up you have.

Refreshing path doesn’t exceed a 1.5k tooltip at best so 750 in PvP, lmao I don’t know what standard you play at but it can’t be good.

The expedition just means they get out the refreshing path quickly so the heal in it is even more pointless! No incentive to stay inside lol. I’ve played this class for years and sap essence is definitely NOT “amazingly good” considering the low heal return, relatively low damage and very high cost to cast.
Not to mention you have to be in melee range so the chances of taking damage is even higher

frostz417 · June 2019

Magblades are the strongest they’ve ever been in terms of survivability.
You have shade which gives minor maim, 15% from grim focus, and 8% from minor protection through dark cloak.
That’s 38% damage mitigation right there...
Oh but “our defense isn’t good waaaaa”
Then you have blur which removes and grants snare immunity for 4 seconds, AND gives major evasion which is another 25% mitigation to AOE’s such as dawnbreakers jabs, etc.
With these abilities you literally will have up to 63% damage mitigation WITHOUT ANY DEFENSIVE SETS against classes like Templar, stamsorc, stamden, Magwarden. Since most of their
Honestly if you’re still complaining about magblades being too squishy you’re just trash and need to L2P.
I’ve seen magblades this patch be extraordinarily tanky without even wearing defensive sets. And the ones that do wear things like armor master or buffer of the swift.. gg man.
As for your group utility argument, uhhh bombers? Literally the best class to bomb.
Siphoning ultimate’s radius has been increased. Sap essence damage has been buffed, path is fantastic for group utility and so is fear now that it fears up to 6 people.
I swear some of y’all are just zergling noobs who don’t know how to adapt or even make your own build.
I’ve seen a lot of magblades that are extremely tanky this patch and do good damage.
Sounds like an L2p issue on your part bud.

Nevasca · June 2019

Grim Focus literally gives you 15% damage received reduction (Not mitigation, it legits reduces by 15%), why even MORE survivability? Oh wait you also have Phanstamal Scape, snare removal + 25% damage reduction for AoE damage, and minor protection through Dark Cloak. If anything, NB is probably the tankiest class in the game right now.

As for group utility on NB, it's been as great as ever:

- Soul Siphon is the best healing ultimate in the game, PvE and PvP. 28m range, major vit, 8k insta heal + 25k over 4s AND a synergy for damage (which everyone forgets to use, sadly) honestly this skill is broken as ***.
- AoE Minor Maim from Shades is really good for PvP, and in PvE you can viably use it as DPS.
- Mass Hysteria locks people in place, up to 6. Excelent instant AoE CC that goes through block. Also useful for PvE tanks due to the long duration.
- Minor Vuln on Lotus, but since the skill is a bit clunky I can see why you would disregard this.
- Refreshing Path is an excelent tool to help your team engage or disengage, and a decent AoE heal as well. In BGs you can really tell the difference when you have a Magblade helping mobility with it.
- If you're doing large scale, sap essence is a viable AoE damage now that also gives your teammates decent off heals.
- Malevolent offering, not a DD skill, but a awesome skill for healers. Why? You have sources of mitigation like Dark Cloak that reduces the dot, you will have enough healing with other skills to make the dot very meh. It heals harder than BoL and you don't use your main resources, which makes sustaining on a support NB a joke compared to templar and warden.

NB does have excelent group support as long as you slot the right skills. Honestly just listing all this stuff makes me want to go back to my Support/Healer NB and do some BGs, they are really strong AND fun.

LegacyDM · July 2019

One of the problems is everyone and I mean everyone in cyrodil is running over 27k hp. Many with heavy armor. We are in a tank meta right now and mageblade has to rely on calruuions legacy to even compete. Even then it’s not enough to sustain and do enough damage to kill most other classes.

Micah_Bayer · July 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Magblades are the strongest they’ve ever been in terms of survivability.
You have shade which gives minor maim, 15% from grim focus, and 8% from minor protection through dark cloak.
That’s 38% damage mitigation right there...
Oh but “our defense isn’t good waaaaa”
Then you have blur which removes and grants snare immunity for 4 seconds, AND gives major evasion which is another 25% mitigation to AOE’s such as dawnbreakers jabs, etc.
With these abilities you literally will have up to 63% damage mitigation WITHOUT ANY DEFENSIVE SETS against classes like Templar, stamsorc, stamden, Magwarden. Since most of their
Honestly if you’re still complaining about magblades being too squishy you’re just trash and need to L2P.
I’ve seen magblades this patch be extraordinarily tanky without even wearing defensive sets. And the ones that do wear things like armor master or buffer of the swift.. gg man.
As for your group utility argument, uhhh bombers? Literally the best class to bomb.
Siphoning ultimate’s radius has been increased. Sap essence damage has been buffed, path is fantastic for group utility and so is fear now that it fears up to 6 people.
I swear some of y’all are just zergling noobs who don’t know how to adapt or even make your own build.
I’ve seen a lot of magblades that are extremely tanky this patch and do good damage.
Sounds like an L2p issue on your part bud.

It doesnt stack like that lol. Otherwise it'd be broken

mb10 · July 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Magblades are the strongest they’ve ever been in terms of survivability.
You have shade which gives minor maim, 15% from grim focus, and 8% from minor protection through dark cloak.
That’s 38% damage mitigation right there...
Oh but “our defense isn’t good waaaaa”
Then you have blur which removes and grants snare immunity for 4 seconds, AND gives major evasion which is another 25% mitigation to AOE’s such as dawnbreakers jabs, etc.
With these abilities you literally will have up to 63% damage mitigation WITHOUT ANY DEFENSIVE SETS against classes like Templar, stamsorc, stamden, Magwarden. Since most of their
Honestly if you’re still complaining about magblades being too squishy you’re just trash and need to L2P.
I’ve seen magblades this patch be extraordinarily tanky without even wearing defensive sets. And the ones that do wear things like armor master or buffer of the swift.. gg man.
As for your group utility argument, uhhh bombers? Literally the best class to bomb.
Siphoning ultimate’s radius has been increased. Sap essence damage has been buffed, path is fantastic for group utility and so is fear now that it fears up to 6 people.
I swear some of y’all are just zergling noobs who don’t know how to adapt or even make your own build.
I’ve seen a lot of magblades that are extremely tanky this patch and do good damage.
Sounds like an L2p issue on your part bud.

wtf is damage mitigation when your class has no burst heals or shields in its toolkit?

Youre talking absolute rubbish and you dotn even play magnb yourself so if its in such a great postion lmao why arent YOU playing that class?

Many sorcs are one trick ponies and when you take that trick away from them they get absolutely melted on every other class they play.

Czekoludek · July 2019

frostz417 wrote: »

Magblades are the strongest they’ve ever been in terms of survivability.
You have shade which gives minor maim, 15% from grim focus, and 8% from minor protection through dark cloak.
That’s 38% damage mitigation right there...
Oh but “our defense isn’t good waaaaa”
Then you have blur which removes and grants snare immunity for 4 seconds, AND gives major evasion which is another 25% mitigation to AOE’s such as dawnbreakers jabs, etc.
With these abilities you literally will have up to 63% damage mitigation WITHOUT ANY DEFENSIVE SETS against classes like Templar, stamsorc, stamden, Magwarden. Since most of their
Honestly if you’re still complaining about magblades being too squishy you’re just trash and need to L2P.
I’ve seen magblades this patch be extraordinarily tanky without even wearing defensive sets. And the ones that do wear things like armor master or buffer of the swift.. gg man.
As for your group utility argument, uhhh bombers? Literally the best class to bomb.
Siphoning ultimate’s radius has been increased. Sap essence damage has been buffed, path is fantastic for group utility and so is fear now that it fears up to 6 people.
I swear some of y’all are just zergling noobs who don’t know how to adapt or even make your own build.
I’ve seen a lot of magblades that are extremely tanky this patch and do good damage.
Sounds like an L2p issue on your part bud.

One word: xD
Really mate, you should start playing this great class. Truth is, magNBs are more tanky (but you clearly don't know how they bonuses works). But who needs that mitigation when our heal is so weak (no, ult healing isn't really an option as it isn't reliable because you need to use damage ulti to be able to kill ppl). I saw few good pvp magblades that are really good but most are trash cuz it is so hard to play them. Don't talk about it like a easy-win class because it is far from truth. Not mentioning PvE magblades that are the biggest trash right now (magdens and magcro will do the same dps but at least gives more group utility and are easier to survive)

del9 · July 2019

One of the PVP groups I play with has a NB healer. Not only are the burst heals incredible, but they also provide AOE fear which is incredibly useful. NB survivability is also at an all time high.

Ragnaroek93 · July 2019

Only issue I have with magnb is bad self healing (when people can just dodge or block funnel health and deny my healing) and that the sustain feels extremely bad. Defense has always been expensive and the cheap offense composated that. Now offense got nerfed for PvE reasons while high defense cost didn't get adjusted. I almost need 1k more recovery on my magnb than I do on my magsorc right now (without harness involved).

Iskiab · July 2019

Shields and dark cloak get around a lot of the self healing issues for magNB. Just use dark cloak like a buff.

Couple clarifications:
- Healthy Offering’s dot from healing is like oblivion damage, it can’t be mitigated
- Mitigation for MagNB is good yea
- MagNB isn’t as strong as it looks like when you list off what’s available from buffs because everything’s spread out, they removed ‘duplication in our abilities’, but what that actually means is it’s straight up impossible to make a build with everything
- Still think funnel health and swallow soul is hot garbage

There are changes Monday, who knows what’ll happen.

KatySpirit · July 2019

Nightblade needs a non-ultimate synergy.

merevie · July 2019

You folks seem to have missed the fine print about the shade nerf.

KatySpirit · July 2019

I have a suggestion for a non-ultimate NB class ability synergy:
Nightblades, being pretty good at sustain, should share the love and have a class synergy that restores resources.

It could go on Refreshing Path.