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My Issue with Stamblade and my opinion on how they can be adjusted.
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CaliMade✭✭✭✭What I do see here, overall, is an avoidance to use the counters to stealth that are available.
I can attest to the fact they work great as long as they player actually uses them and figures out how to use them effectively. But that is a choice some of us make while others do not.
I understand the counters point.
My counter argument to that is also stated in my post, but I’ll elaborate.
I’m a big small-scaled player, rarely in a group more than 2-3 players and playing alot of time solo.
I often run into situations where I have to deal with multiple players, for me to run detect potions I have to give up potions that would be useful against every other class.
for me to hide my befoul enchant with a conspicuous poison. I’m making myself significantly less effective against any class with healing to deal with nightblades. That’s my issue with the counters. The counters required for nightblades are niche and force you to be less effective against the other 5 classes in the game.
The very fact there are hard counters and you specifically say you area choosing to not use them in certain situation says it all. The game is about choices so saying you would rather use something else than a counter is not justification for a nerf.
I would also suggest that it is irrelevant that you run in extremely small groups as the game is not and should not be designed around very small groups. Again that is a choice. I say that as one who runs solo if not running with a small group. When I am with a small group each person is responsible for certain skill types. Maybe some improvement with your group is needed.
Sorry to mess up your idea with a little logic.
To say the game isn’t and shouldn’t be designed around a specific play style is true , but my specific play style doesn’t change the Fact that current nb counters are niche, and at the end of the day require you to reach farther than is needed to deal with any other classes gimmicks.
Also to say the game shouldn’t at least be attentive to all the ways to enjoy the game is also false, Do I need to remind you of bgs? literally a mode made for small scale pvp. yet this issue remains the same. Using detect pots over anything that gives stamina on a magicka based character is akin to self hate in bgs.
The game should be balanced around small scale just as much as large scale and solo.
No other class forces you to use something that would be completely ineffective against the rest of the game.
Your attempt at the dramatic to make a point does not make it a solid point, more of a gimmick.
I cannot help it you are challenged with using counters but all you are asking for is this game to be nerfed to your playstyle or groups capability and have said nothing that counters what I stated previously. What is funny is even when I run solo I can handle countering NBs cloak yet your groups of 3ish finds it so challenging.
You’re saying i haven’t countered your previous argument, explain.
You say “Use Counters”
I say “ Counters are niche, and the nature of said counters are evidence of a needed change”
What am I missing?
Enlighten me on any other class that requires counters that are completely ineffective against the rest of the game. Please.
I made it clear. Saying counters are niche because you do not want to use them is rather inane as that same line of thought would literally remove much of the skills we have in the game.
By your line of thought Zos must remove all DoT damage, all snares because cleanses are niche. Calling the hard counters niche merely because you do not want to use them, make room for them on your build does not stand solid.
if that does not help you find what you are missing then I cannot help you. As I said, I fun solo and still manage to be able to fit a clock counter. I am sure you group leader can help your team figure out how to handle something so simple and straight forward.
Don’t Compare Cloak/ detect pots to Clense/ Dots
All Classes have access to a Strong Dot.
Only One Class has access to a mid combat Cloak.
I’ve largely ignored your Subtle jabs at me but your continued use of them makes your posts wreak of animosity.
Please give me the same respect i give to you.
Explain why Having Cast time abilities pull you from stealth on activation is going to do more harm than good.
Explain how Pausing Dodge fatigue while cloaked isn’t a reasonable change.
You’ve constantly come at me as if im saying delete cloak from ESO. Instead of trying to demean my gaming prowess how about you simply explain why my suggested adjustments aren’t good for the health of pvp.
XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What I do see here, overall, is an avoidance to use the counters to stealth that are available.
I can attest to the fact they work great as long as they player actually uses them and figures out how to use them effectively. But that is a choice some of us make while others do not.
I understand the counters point.
My counter argument to that is also stated in my post, but I’ll elaborate.
I’m a big small-scaled player, rarely in a group more than 2-3 players and playing alot of time solo.
I often run into situations where I have to deal with multiple players, for me to run detect potions I have to give up potions that would be useful against every other class.
for me to hide my befoul enchant with a conspicuous poison. I’m making myself significantly less effective against any class with healing to deal with nightblades. That’s my issue with the counters. The counters required for nightblades are niche and force you to be less effective against the other 5 classes in the game.
The very fact there are hard counters and you specifically say you area choosing to not use them in certain situation says it all. The game is about choices so saying you would rather use something else than a counter is not justification for a nerf.
I would also suggest that it is irrelevant that you run in extremely small groups as the game is not and should not be designed around very small groups. Again that is a choice. I say that as one who runs solo if not running with a small group. When I am with a small group each person is responsible for certain skill types. Maybe some improvement with your group is needed.
Sorry to mess up your idea with a little logic.
To say the game isn’t and shouldn’t be designed around a specific play style is true , but my specific play style doesn’t change the Fact that current nb counters are niche, and at the end of the day require you to reach farther than is needed to deal with any other classes gimmicks.
Also to say the game shouldn’t at least be attentive to all the ways to enjoy the game is also false, Do I need to remind you of bgs? literally a mode made for small scale pvp. yet this issue remains the same. Using detect pots over anything that gives stamina on a magicka based character is akin to self hate in bgs.
The game should be balanced around small scale just as much as large scale and solo.
No other class forces you to use something that would be completely ineffective against the rest of the game.
Your attempt at the dramatic to make a point does not make it a solid point, more of a gimmick.
I cannot help it you are challenged with using counters but all you are asking for is this game to be nerfed to your playstyle or groups capability and have said nothing that counters what I stated previously. What is funny is even when I run solo I can handle countering NBs cloak yet your groups of 3ish finds it so challenging.
You’re saying i haven’t countered your previous argument, explain.
You say “Use Counters”
I say “ Counters are niche, and the nature of said counters are evidence of a needed change”
What am I missing?
Enlighten me on any other class that requires counters that are completely ineffective against the rest of the game. Please.
I made it clear. Saying counters are niche because you do not want to use them is rather inane as that same line of thought would literally remove much of the skills we have in the game.
By your line of thought Zos must remove all DoT damage, all snares because cleanses are niche. Calling the hard counters niche merely because you do not want to use them, make room for them on your build does not stand solid.
if that does not help you find what you are missing then I cannot help you. As I said, I fun solo and still manage to be able to fit a clock counter. I am sure you group leader can help your team figure out how to handle something so simple and straight forward.
Don’t Compare Cloak/ detect pots to Clense/ Dots
Now you will control what can be said and cannot even though cleanses are just as prevalent as cloak counters and are the hard counter to many DoTs. I am sorry if this is inconvenient but it does seem to shed a light on how valid that "niche" comment is.
I removed must of the statement as much of it tended to steer away from the hard counter available that proper use negates all of that discussion.
Again, like anything in PvP, and to a degree in PvE, I suggest searching for a solution rather than asking for a nerf. As I have stated, even when I am solo I often still choose to have a cloak counter available. Maybe a different cloak counter will work better for you.3 -
susmitds✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You pull them from cloak 5 times, they cloak 6. They are faster than you are to re position and get into L.O.S. to grab a quick crit heal.
Odd. I tend to not let them cloak a second time. Killing them helps prevent them using cloak again. I am not poking fun, but being literal. yea, sometimes they get the best of me as I am not perfect but I if I am having to pull them out of close half a dozen times they probably deserve to win the day.
How are you not letting them not recloak? Meaning you already have the counters we have said exist on your bar ready to go, so you are always anticipating 1v1 a stamblade?
You main a stamclass or a class with no mobility issues? Because if you are on a class without mobility, and you don't have a detect pot off cooldown, you are not stopping them from recloaking.
If you don't have a single AoE in your bar as no anti-cloak skill/pot, then why should you expect to break cloak?
If I don't have Major Defile in my build, I don't manage to finish off tanky builds as they heal right back from 10% HP. What do I do? I walk away after a few tries.
How is this any different? If you manage to stay on the cloaker and deplete their resources, they are done for. Cloakblades lack in the mitigation department as well as in the self healing department compared to other builds. What you are asking is to remove the roller-cloaker playstyle.
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DreadDaedroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd adjust cloak by making the skill reduce projectile damage of 50% in PvP and that's all.0 -
Insco851✭✭✭✭✭
✭If cloak becomes guaranteed to grant invisibility its full duration regardless of any damage, then you can start trying to nerf it. So long as it can be, and often is, completely negated by nonspecific skills and all-accessible potions, then there’s no discussion to be had.
Stamblade ganker is not even close to the most obnoxious, most powerful, or most difficult to deal with builds, which are granted to the likes of bash-necro, snarebot wardens, and walking pet armies.
I sorta agree with you, in terms of detect potions and poisons I think they should be removed and revealing flare too. AOE’s and things like Curse and PotL should still pull you out of cloak though.
Also just because it isn’t as blatantly over performing as Bash builds(witch are being nerfed) and pet sorc doesn’t mean an adjustment isn’t needed.
Wait what? Remove detect pots? Aren’t you in here saying you have trouble with cloak? Come again?
Seriously, 1 detect pot (and there are ones that have Stam or mag benefits, figure out what’ll help you the most) and line that dude up.
In small group... 2-3.... make sure your partner also has... detect pots. So you can stagger them if need. Trust me the NB isn’t trying to kill you at this point... he’s running.
Solo... yes you might run into a real *** of a NB that plays well. Dodge rolls when the detect pot is up. Resets, runs away... doesn’t mean he killed you though. He will have to stay and fight to get said kill. wait til you pressure him a bit, right before you know he’s getting squirrely pop that detect pot to finish him
I too once thought it was silly to have to have these potions. But for all but the best nbs, detect pot is a quick I win button.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You pull them from cloak 5 times, they cloak 6. They are faster than you are to re position and get into L.O.S. to grab a quick crit heal.
Odd. I tend to not let them cloak a second time. Killing them helps prevent them using cloak again. I am not poking fun, but being literal. yea, sometimes they get the best of me as I am not perfect but I if I am having to pull them out of close half a dozen times they probably deserve to win the day.
How are you not letting them not recloak? Meaning you already have the counters we have said exist on your bar ready to go, so you are always anticipating 1v1 a stamblade?
You main a stamclass or a class with no mobility issues? Because if you are on a class without mobility, and you don't have a detect pot off cooldown, you are not stopping them from recloaking.
If you don't have a single AoE in your bar as no anti-cloak skill/pot, then why should you expect to break cloak?
If I don't have Major Defile in my build, I don't manage to finish off tanky builds as they heal right back from 10% HP. What do I do? I walk away after a few tries.
How is this any different? If you manage to stay on the cloaker and deplete their resources, they are done for. Cloakblades lack in the mitigation department as well as in the self healing department compared to other builds. What you are asking is to remove the roller-cloaker playstyle.
This. Along with using a counter I can use at will.
Granted, the more skilled the player the more different the outcome can be. But for most players I would suggest they are challenged when things do not go as they expected giving a moment of advantage to us.
I am not even talking about the player who just breaks down, running around doing nothing, well, probably pressing clock over and over wondering why it does not work as they is a different story.
Edit: I enjoy seeking clocked or even just stealth players out. I like to find those that try to gankers that hide around the outskirts of keeps under attack.Edited by idk on July 5, 2019 3:47PM2 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭If cloak becomes guaranteed to grant invisibility its full duration regardless of any damage, then you can start trying to nerf it. So long as it can be, and often is, completely negated by nonspecific skills and all-accessible potions, then there’s no discussion to be had.
Stamblade ganker is not even close to the most obnoxious, most powerful, or most difficult to deal with builds, which are granted to the likes of bash-necro, snarebot wardens, and walking pet armies.
I sorta agree with you, in terms of detect potions and poisons I think they should be removed and revealing flare too. AOE’s and things like Curse and PotL should still pull you out of cloak though.
Also just because it isn’t as blatantly over performing as Bash builds(witch are being nerfed) and pet sorc doesn’t mean an adjustment isn’t needed.
Wait what? Remove detect pots? Aren’t you in here saying you have trouble with cloak? Come again?
Seriously, 1 detect pot (and there are ones that have Stam or mag benefits, figure out what’ll help you the most) and line that dude up.
In small group... 2-3.... make sure your partner also has... detect pots. So you can stagger them if need. Trust me the NB isn’t trying to kill you at this point... he’s running.
Solo... yes you might run into a real *** of a NB that plays well. Dodge rolls when the detect pot is up. Resets, runs away... doesn’t mean he killed you though. He will have to stay and fight to get said kill. wait til you pressure him a bit, right before you know he’s getting squirrely pop that detect pot to finish him
I too once thought it was silly to have to have these potions. But for all but the best nbs, detect pot is a quick I win button.
Omg did you read my original post. My gripes were made clear, I Summed up 2 points and how they should be adjusted. My issue isn’t with cloak alone, it is with cloak in tandem with dodge rolling or cast time abilities.
I don’t have an issue with magblade, AOE is more than valid against magblade.
Can we please stop trying to attack attack attack and actually take time to process what exactly it is im saying
@idk
Please quote the two sentences after the one you chose to highlight.
The is olny one shadowy disguise.
There is;
Burning embers
venomous claw
rending slashes
Flame clench
Fetcher infection
Vampires bane
Cripple
and many many many more.
My clense can be effective against any class
whilst my detect pot or radiant magelight is only affective against 1.
XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard0 -
Noobslayer3255✭✭✭Noobslayer3255 wrote: »What I do see here, overall, is an avoidance to use the counters to stealth that are available.
I can attest to the fact they work great as long as they player actually uses them and figures out how to use them effectively. But that is a choice some of us make while others do not.
I understand the counters point.
My counter argument to that is also stated in my post, but I’ll elaborate.
I’m a big small-scaled player, rarely in a group more than 2-3 players and playing alot of time solo.
I often run into situations where I have to deal with multiple players, for me to run detect potions I have to give up potions that would be useful against every other class.
for me to hide my befoul enchant with a conspicuous poison. I’m making myself significantly less effective against any class with healing to deal with nightblades. That’s my issue with the counters. The counters required for nightblades are niche and force you to be less effective against the other 5 classes in the game.
The very fact there are hard counters and you specifically say you area choosing to not use them in certain situation says it all. The game is about choices so saying you would rather use something else than a counter is not justification for a nerf.
I would also suggest that it is irrelevant that you run in extremely small groups as the game is not and should not be designed around very small groups. Again that is a choice. I say that as one who runs solo if not running with a small group. When I am with a small group each person is responsible for certain skill types. Maybe some improvement with your group is needed.
Sorry to mess up your idea with a little logic.
To say the game isn’t and shouldn’t be designed around a specific play style is true , but my specific play style doesn’t change the Fact that current nb counters are niche, and at the end of the day require you to reach farther than is needed to deal with any other classes gimmicks.
Also to say the game shouldn’t at least be attentive to all the ways to enjoy the game is also false, Do I need to remind you of bgs? literally a mode made for small scale pvp. yet this issue remains the same. Using detect pots over anything that gives stamina on a magicka based character is akin to self hate in bgs.
The game should be balanced around small scale just as much as large scale and solo.
No other class forces you to use something that would be completely ineffective against the rest of the game.
Your attempt at the dramatic to make a point does not make it a solid point, more of a gimmick.
I cannot help it you are challenged with using counters but all you are asking for is this game to be nerfed to your playstyle or groups capability and have said nothing that counters what I stated previously. What is funny is even when I run solo I can handle countering NBs cloak yet your groups of 3ish finds it so challenging.
I say “ Counters are niche, and the nature of said counters are evidence of a needed change”
What am I missing?
Enlighten me on any other class that requires counters that are completely ineffective against the rest of the game. Please.
AoEs are not niche
Magelight is not nice
Camo hunter is not niche
Curse, lightning form/hurricane, streak are not niche
Sweeps, nova, crescent sweep, ritual of retribution, solar flare, shards are not niche
Volatile armor, inhale, fiery breath are not niche
Mark target admittedly is pretty niche but still provides a great debuff vs non NBs. Sap and power drain - definitely not niche (my power drain hits almost as hard as my suprise attack now). Mass hysteria is not niche
Warden ground snare, permafrost, definitely not niche
Necro has so much aoe, multiple of which are useful against every class (Aoe based major fracture for one)
Spin2win is not niche
Quick cloak is not niche
Carve is not niche
Wall of elements is not niche
Impulse sucks but again, definitely is not at all niche.
Detect pots and flare - those are niche.
You keep saying stealth counters are niche when that is simply an objectively wrong statement.
Ive already addressed AOE’s, don’t feel like repeating myself. Read back and you will find my rebuttal to the “Use AOE’s” argument
You keep trying to boil arguments down to simple concepts like you did here with "use AoEs" and it's disingenuous. I listed abilities for every class, from both mages and fighters guild, and from both stamina and magicka weapon lines that are not simply AoEs you'd use exclusively to pull NBs out of cloak, but also have uses against every class in every fight (or provide great buffs ala major savagery/prophecy). The point being, there is plenty of access to AoE cloak counters that are essentially part of every class' base kit that double down as also breaking cloak via the AoE mechanics. That is to say, they are simply not niche, despite one of your main arguments relying on the claim that cloak counters are niche. They simply aren't.
If you are willfully going to ignore every single one of them then that's on you and your stubbornness and unwillingness to take advantage of staple abilities that also break cloak inherently by the virtue of them being AoE.Edited by Noobslayer3255 on July 5, 2019 7:24PM8 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magic users have it particularly good with detection pots with other benefits for use against all classes.
Corn Flower + Torchbug Thorax + Lady's Smock = Detection + Increase Spell Power + Restore Magicka
Corn Flower + Wormwood + Columbine = Unstoppable + Detection + Restore Magicka
Corn Flower + Wormwood + Lady's Smock = Detection + Increase Spell Power + Restore Magicka
2 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭Noobslayer3255 wrote: »Noobslayer3255 wrote: »What I do see here, overall, is an avoidance to use the counters to stealth that are available.
I can attest to the fact they work great as long as they player actually uses them and figures out how to use them effectively. But that is a choice some of us make while others do not.
I understand the counters point.
My counter argument to that is also stated in my post, but I’ll elaborate.
I’m a big small-scaled player, rarely in a group more than 2-3 players and playing alot of time solo.
I often run into situations where I have to deal with multiple players, for me to run detect potions I have to give up potions that would be useful against every other class.
for me to hide my befoul enchant with a conspicuous poison. I’m making myself significantly less effective against any class with healing to deal with nightblades. That’s my issue with the counters. The counters required for nightblades are niche and force you to be less effective against the other 5 classes in the game.
The very fact there are hard counters and you specifically say you area choosing to not use them in certain situation says it all. The game is about choices so saying you would rather use something else than a counter is not justification for a nerf.
I would also suggest that it is irrelevant that you run in extremely small groups as the game is not and should not be designed around very small groups. Again that is a choice. I say that as one who runs solo if not running with a small group. When I am with a small group each person is responsible for certain skill types. Maybe some improvement with your group is needed.
Sorry to mess up your idea with a little logic.
To say the game isn’t and shouldn’t be designed around a specific play style is true , but my specific play style doesn’t change the Fact that current nb counters are niche, and at the end of the day require you to reach farther than is needed to deal with any other classes gimmicks.
Also to say the game shouldn’t at least be attentive to all the ways to enjoy the game is also false, Do I need to remind you of bgs? literally a mode made for small scale pvp. yet this issue remains the same. Using detect pots over anything that gives stamina on a magicka based character is akin to self hate in bgs.
The game should be balanced around small scale just as much as large scale and solo.
No other class forces you to use something that would be completely ineffective against the rest of the game.
Your attempt at the dramatic to make a point does not make it a solid point, more of a gimmick.
I cannot help it you are challenged with using counters but all you are asking for is this game to be nerfed to your playstyle or groups capability and have said nothing that counters what I stated previously. What is funny is even when I run solo I can handle countering NBs cloak yet your groups of 3ish finds it so challenging.
I say “ Counters are niche, and the nature of said counters are evidence of a needed change”
What am I missing?
Enlighten me on any other class that requires counters that are completely ineffective against the rest of the game. Please.
AoEs are not niche
Magelight is not nice
Camo hunter is not niche
Curse, lightning form/hurricane, streak are not niche
Sweeps, nova, crescent sweep, ritual of retribution, solar flare, shards are not niche
Volatile armor, inhale, fiery breath are not niche
Mark target admittedly is pretty niche but still provides a great debuff vs non NBs. Sap and power drain - definitely not niche (my power drain hits almost as hard as my suprise attack now). Mass hysteria is not niche
Warden ground snare, permafrost, definitely not niche
Necro has so much aoe, multiple of which are useful against every class (Aoe based major fracture for one)
Spin2win is not niche
Quick cloak is not niche
Carve is not niche
Wall of elements is not niche
Impulse sucks but again, definitely is not at all niche.
Detect pots and flare - those are niche.
You keep saying stealth counters are niche when that is simply an objectively wrong statement.
Ive already addressed AOE’s, don’t feel like repeating myself. Read back and you will find my rebuttal to the “Use AOE’s” argument
You keep trying to boil arguments down to simple concepts like you did here with "use AoEs" and it's disingenuous. I listed abilities for every class, from both mages and fighters guild, and from both stamina and magicka weapon lines that are not simply AoEs you'd use exclusively to pull NBs out of cloak, but also have uses against every class in every fight. The point being, there is plenty of access to AoE cloak counters that are essentially part of every class' base kit that double down as also breaking cloak via the AoE mechanics. If you are willfully going to ignore every single one of them then that's on and your stubbornness and unwillingness to take advantage if staple abilities that also break cloak inheritanly by the virtue of them being AoE.
You clearly couldn’t pick up what i was dropping so ill repeat myself again.
AoE is a perfectly valid counter to mag blade. Stamblade is a different story. More often than not a samblade will clear my AoE range and avoid being caught by it. Yes Magelight and Evil hunter fit in this category too. I never stated AoE as niche, I stated AoEs as Invalid counters to stamblade.
XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard0 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You pull them from cloak 5 times, they cloak 6. They are faster than you are to re position and get into L.O.S. to grab a quick crit heal.
Odd. I tend to not let them cloak a second time. Killing them helps prevent them using cloak again. I am not poking fun, but being literal. yea, sometimes they get the best of me as I am not perfect but I if I am having to pull them out of close half a dozen times they probably deserve to win the day.
How are you not letting them not recloak? Meaning you already have the counters we have said exist on your bar ready to go, so you are always anticipating 1v1 a stamblade?
You main a stamclass or a class with no mobility issues? Because if you are on a class without mobility, and you don't have a detect pot off cooldown, you are not stopping them from recloaking.
If you don't have a single AoE in your bar as no anti-cloak skill/pot, then why should you expect to break cloak?
If I don't have Major Defile in my build, I don't manage to finish off tanky builds as they heal right back from 10% HP. What do I do? I walk away after a few tries.
How is this any different? If you manage to stay on the cloaker and deplete their resources, they are done for. Cloakblades lack in the mitigation department as well as in the self healing department compared to other builds. What you are asking is to remove the roller-cloaker playstyle.
If I am on my mag dk I have plenty of pbaoe and they work amazingly well against a low-mid tier nightblade. I don't have problems with the nightblades who over extend and think they can use cloak as an instant i-win button.
The problem is with the nightblades who don't just sit in aoe range after they cloak and don't use use cloak to disappear when you get on them.
Those are bad nightblades. A good nightblade is going to get out of talons/deepbreath/volatile range before cloaking again. So chains, I use chains to bring them back in, but now they are cc immune and will just run out of my pbaoe range.
So use a targeted aoe you say? Sure, caltrops on a magdk or revealing flare which is garbage, or the tossable impulse or maybe just turtle up and hit magmashell so when they try to gib me I can keep constant pressure.
I'm not trying to remove roller/cloaker. Do I wish that they were not in the game? Yes and I know so many people who agree, but that isn't my call and I understand others do enjoy that playstyle.
I"m an open book about nightblades, I've never been on board with their existence in the game and feel that they shouldn't have invisibility at all., but that is not the point of the comment.
If you are nightblade and you just sit there and think you can cloak away from me you will die. If you are not braindead and you get out of range of my skills before you reset, there isn't anything I can do unless my potion is off cooldown.
The people who enjoy cloak and the people who feel cloak is over powered will literally never agree, its the most polarizing aspect of the game and has been discussed ad nauseam.
Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.2 -
Noobslayer3255✭✭✭If cloak becomes guaranteed to grant invisibility its full duration regardless of any damage, then you can start trying to nerf it. So long as it can be, and often is, completely negated by nonspecific skills and all-accessible potions, then there’s no discussion to be had.
Stamblade ganker is not even close to the most obnoxious, most powerful, or most difficult to deal with builds, which are granted to the likes of bash-necro, snarebot wardens, and walking pet armies.
I sorta agree with you, in terms of detect potions and poisons I think they should be removed and revealing flare too. AOE’s and things like Curse and PotL should still pull you out of cloak though.
Also just because it isn’t as blatantly over performing as Bash builds(witch are being nerfed) and pet sorc doesn’t mean an adjustment isn’t needed.
Wait what? Remove detect pots? Aren’t you in here saying you have trouble with cloak? Come again?
Seriously, 1 detect pot (and there are ones that have Stam or mag benefits, figure out what’ll help you the most) and line that dude up.
In small group... 2-3.... make sure your partner also has... detect pots. So you can stagger them if need. Trust me the NB isn’t trying to kill you at this point... he’s running.
Solo... yes you might run into a real *** of a NB that plays well. Dodge rolls when the detect pot is up. Resets, runs away... doesn’t mean he killed you though. He will have to stay and fight to get said kill. wait til you pressure him a bit, right before you know he’s getting squirrely pop that detect pot to finish him
I too once thought it was silly to have to have these potions. But for all but the best nbs, detect pot is a quick I win button.
My clense can be effective against any class
whilst my detect pot or radiant magelight is only affective against 1.
No, radiant magelight at all times grants you major prophecy, 2% magicka, and 2% magicka regen.
As I said above, the numerous cloak counters I listed have uses well beyond merely breaking cloak, you just choose to ignore them and call them niche and it detracts from your own argument.
2 -
yodased✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To sum up the arguments apparantly we are playing a game of
rock
paper
scissors
potionTl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DARK CLOAK IS A HEAL that also gives minor protection.
Shadowy disguise is the one you have a problem with.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp1 -
CaliMade✭✭✭✭Noobslayer3255 wrote: »If cloak becomes guaranteed to grant invisibility its full duration regardless of any damage, then you can start trying to nerf it. So long as it can be, and often is, completely negated by nonspecific skills and all-accessible potions, then there’s no discussion to be had.
Stamblade ganker is not even close to the most obnoxious, most powerful, or most difficult to deal with builds, which are granted to the likes of bash-necro, snarebot wardens, and walking pet armies.
I sorta agree with you, in terms of detect potions and poisons I think they should be removed and revealing flare too. AOE’s and things like Curse and PotL should still pull you out of cloak though.
Also just because it isn’t as blatantly over performing as Bash builds(witch are being nerfed) and pet sorc doesn’t mean an adjustment isn’t needed.
Wait what? Remove detect pots? Aren’t you in here saying you have trouble with cloak? Come again?
Seriously, 1 detect pot (and there are ones that have Stam or mag benefits, figure out what’ll help you the most) and line that dude up.
In small group... 2-3.... make sure your partner also has... detect pots. So you can stagger them if need. Trust me the NB isn’t trying to kill you at this point... he’s running.
Solo... yes you might run into a real *** of a NB that plays well. Dodge rolls when the detect pot is up. Resets, runs away... doesn’t mean he killed you though. He will have to stay and fight to get said kill. wait til you pressure him a bit, right before you know he’s getting squirrely pop that detect pot to finish him
I too once thought it was silly to have to have these potions. But for all but the best nbs, detect pot is a quick I win button.
My clense can be effective against any class
whilst my detect pot or radiant magelight is only affective against 1.
No, radiant magelight at all times grants you major prophecy, 2% magicka, and 2% magicka regen.
As I said above, the numerous cloak counters I listed have uses well beyond merely breaking cloak, you just choose to ignore them and call them niche and it detracts from your own argument.
radiant magelight is less effective against other classes compared to its opposing morph innerlight. Taking radiant over Inner light is a deliberate act of making yourself weaker against the majority of the roster to be stronger against 1 class.
Inner light is not niche.
radiant magelight is.
XB1 GT- Cali Made
Praetorian Stam DK Redguard
Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
Major Mag DK Dark Elf
lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard0 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭PvP is a complex game of rock, paper, scissor. You aren't supposed to be able to build to counter everything. You are supposed to make meaningful choices and put yourself in positions to capitalize on those choices. Other times you have to deal with the consequences of what happens when you make the wrong choices. Stop try to remove uniqueness from classes.3 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Those are bad nightblades. A good nightblade is going to get out of talons/deepbreath/volatile range before cloaking again. So chains, I use chains to bring them back in, but now they are cc immune and will just run out of my pbaoe range.You pull them from cloak 5 times, they cloak 6. They are faster than you are to re position and get into L.O.S. to grab a quick crit heal.
Odd. I tend to not let them cloak a second time. Killing them helps prevent them using cloak again. I am not poking fun, but being literal. yea, sometimes they get the best of me as I am not perfect but I if I am having to pull them out of close half a dozen times they probably deserve to win the day.
How are you not letting them not recloak? Meaning you already have the counters we have said exist on your bar ready to go, so you are always anticipating 1v1 a stamblade?
You main a stamclass or a class with no mobility issues? Because if you are on a class without mobility, and you don't have a detect pot off cooldown, you are not stopping them from recloaking.
If you don't have a single AoE in your bar as no anti-cloak skill/pot, then why should you expect to break cloak?
If I don't have Major Defile in my build, I don't manage to finish off tanky builds as they heal right back from 10% HP. What do I do? I walk away after a few tries.
How is this any different? If you manage to stay on the cloaker and deplete their resources, they are done for. Cloakblades lack in the mitigation department as well as in the self healing department compared to other builds. What you are asking is to remove the roller-cloaker playstyle.
Unfortunately there is a very large span from skilled players to what we will call lesser skilled players.
I enjoy coming across a more skilled player, though I do not find them as a ganker stalking a keep. With the more skilled players one has to keep adapting as they adapt regardless of their class. If they get the best of me it does not make it a bad fight and it probably did not come down to their use of cloak or my use of counters.0 -
Noobslayer3255✭✭✭I've picked up on what you are saying you just continually shift the goal posts each time a claim of yours is addressed.
You don't want to do anything to fight stamblades specifically, despite plenty of available non-niche abilities that are unimpeded by cloak or roll dodge and that has become quite clear. It sure would be easy if I could approach every fight against every spec/class the exact same but that just isn't the case.Edited by Noobslayer3255 on July 5, 2019 5:44PM5 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OP, you should roll a stamblade and spend 2 months playing one to get a feel for it from the other side.
2. Dodge/stealth rotating
Lets go way back to when they first added dodge roll fatigue. The issue was that roll gives frames of “dodge” where you cannot be hit with single target abilities. If you used it in rapid succession you were able to go the majority of a fight essentially immune to single target abilities. ZOS’ solution to this was to add a cost increase on roll if it was used more than once in a 3 second time frame. While this was an effective nerf to most stamina specs, Nightblade was essentially unaffected. This is due to Cloak, cloak as an ability causes single target abilities to miss and last NEARLY 3 seconds. So what was created from this was a defensive weave of two abilities that cost different resources and have separate cooldowns. Nightblades Can roll then immediately cloak after and wait out your roll fatigue while lets say, charging a heavy attack, come out of cloak with said heavy attack then immediately go into another roll after your dodge fatigue has ended . Not only have you managed to be essentially immune to single target from this weave, but you also have bypassed the mechanic put in the game to specifically stop this from happening. So whats been happening is the abuse of this defensive weave from nightblades to kind of beat a system to balace stamina defense. My Solution to this problem would simply be to pause roll fatigue while stealthed, essentially forcing nightblades to be just as conservative with roll as every other stamina spec. While also keeping cloak effects strong and effective.
TLDR; Make cast time pull you from stealth and pause dodge roll fatigue in stealth.
If the nightblade can do all that, then your problem is not that they are a nightblade, it's that they are a good player.
The Moot Councillor6 -
Noobslayer3255✭✭✭Noobslayer3255 wrote: »Noobslayer3255 wrote: »What I do see here, overall, is an avoidance to use the counters to stealth that are available.
I can attest to the fact they work great as long as they player actually uses them and figures out how to use them effectively. But that is a choice some of us make while others do not.
I understand the counters point.
My counter argument to that is also stated in my post, but I’ll elaborate.
I’m a big small-scaled player, rarely in a group more than 2-3 players and playing alot of time solo.
I often run into situations where I have to deal with multiple players, for me to run detect potions I have to give up potions that would be useful against every other class.
for me to hide my befoul enchant with a conspicuous poison. I’m making myself significantly less effective against any class with healing to deal with nightblades. That’s my issue with the counters. The counters required for nightblades are niche and force you to be less effective against the other 5 classes in the game.
The very fact there are hard counters and you specifically say you area choosing to not use them in certain situation says it all. The game is about choices so saying you would rather use something else than a counter is not justification for a nerf.
I would also suggest that it is irrelevant that you run in extremely small groups as the game is not and should not be designed around very small groups. Again that is a choice. I say that as one who runs solo if not running with a small group. When I am with a small group each person is responsible for certain skill types. Maybe some improvement with your group is needed.
Sorry to mess up your idea with a little logic.
To say the game isn’t and shouldn’t be designed around a specific play style is true , but my specific play style doesn’t change the Fact that current nb counters are niche, and at the end of the day require you to reach farther than is needed to deal with any other classes gimmicks.
Also to say the game shouldn’t at least be attentive to all the ways to enjoy the game is also false, Do I need to remind you of bgs? literally a mode made for small scale pvp. yet this issue remains the same. Using detect pots over anything that gives stamina on a magicka based character is akin to self hate in bgs.
The game should be balanced around small scale just as much as large scale and solo.
No other class forces you to use something that would be completely ineffective against the rest of the game.
Your attempt at the dramatic to make a point does not make it a solid point, more of a gimmick.
I cannot help it you are challenged with using counters but all you are asking for is this game to be nerfed to your playstyle or groups capability and have said nothing that counters what I stated previously. What is funny is even when I run solo I can handle countering NBs cloak yet your groups of 3ish finds it so challenging.
I say “ Counters are niche, and the nature of said counters are evidence of a needed change”
What am I missing?
Enlighten me on any other class that requires counters that are completely ineffective against the rest of the game. Please.
AoEs are not niche
Magelight is not nice
Camo hunter is not niche
Curse, lightning form/hurricane, streak are not niche
Sweeps, nova, crescent sweep, ritual of retribution, solar flare, shards are not niche
Volatile armor, inhale, fiery breath are not niche
Mark target admittedly is pretty niche but still provides a great debuff vs non NBs. Sap and power drain - definitely not niche (my power drain hits almost as hard as my suprise attack now). Mass hysteria is not niche
Warden ground snare, permafrost, definitely not niche
Necro has so much aoe, multiple of which are useful against every class (Aoe based major fracture for one)
Spin2win is not niche
Quick cloak is not niche
Carve is not niche
Wall of elements is not niche
Impulse sucks but again, definitely is not at all niche.
Detect pots and flare - those are niche.
You keep saying stealth counters are niche when that is simply an objectively wrong statement.
Ive already addressed AOE’s, don’t feel like repeating myself. Read back and you will find my rebuttal to the “Use AOE’s” argument
You keep trying to boil arguments down to simple concepts like you did here with "use AoEs" and it's disingenuous. I listed abilities for every class, from both mages and fighters guild, and from both stamina and magicka weapon lines that are not simply AoEs you'd use exclusively to pull NBs out of cloak, but also have uses against every class in every fight. The point being, there is plenty of access to AoE cloak counters that are essentially part of every class' base kit that double down as also breaking cloak via the AoE mechanics. If you are willfully going to ignore every single one of them then that's on and your stubbornness and unwillingness to take advantage if staple abilities that also break cloak inheritanly by the virtue of them being AoE.
You clearly couldn’t pick up what i was dropping so ill repeat myself again.
AoE is a perfectly valid counter to mag blade. Stamblade is a different story. More often than not a samblade will clear my AoE range and avoid being caught by it. Yes Magelight and Evil hunter fit in this category too. I never stated AoE as niche, I stated AoEs as Invalid counters to stamblade.
I've picked up on what you are saying you just continually shift the goal posts each time a claim of yours is addressed.
You don't want to do anything to fight stamblades specifically, despite plenty of available non-niche abilities that are unimpeded by cloak or roll dodge and that has become quite clear. It sure would be easy if I could approach every fight against every spec/class the exact same but that just isn't the case.
Edited by Noobslayer3255 on July 5, 2019 5:16PM2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You gotta understand that there exists a large majority of players on this forum who snipe, cloak, enjoy the skill-less hide-and-seek playstyle, and are just overall not that great at PvP so they rely on cloak to avoid getting killed by good players.
It is this majority that sit on the forums all day, so anytime anyone says anything about cloak getting nerfed, they flock to it and immediately join forces to shoot it down.
Don’t worry, there is a minority of non-NB good players still on the forums that agree and think cloak needs to be nerfed into the ground or taken out the game completely. But we have learned not to say such things on here anymore, because the only response you’ll get is “L2P” from players who would get 1vXed without cloak because of their inferior skill level.3 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭You gotta understand that there exists a large majority of players on this forum who snipe, cloak, enjoy the skill-less hide-and-seek playstyle, and are just overall not that great at PvP so they rely on cloak to avoid getting killed by good players.
It is this majority that sit on the forums all day, so anytime anyone says anything about cloak getting nerfed, they flock to it and immediately join forces to shoot it down.
Don’t worry, there is a minority of non-NB good players still on the forums that agree and think cloak needs to be nerfed into the ground or taken out the game completely. But we have learned not to say such things on here anymore, because the only response you’ll get is “L2P” from players who would get 1vXed without cloak because of their inferior skill level.
source?3 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You gotta understand that there exists a large majority of players on this forum who snipe, cloak, enjoy the skill-less hide-and-seek playstyle, and are just overall not that great at PvP so they rely on cloak to avoid getting killed by good players.
It is this majority that sit on the forums all day, so anytime anyone says anything about cloak getting nerfed, they flock to it and immediately join forces to shoot it down.
Don’t worry, there is a minority of non-NB good players still on the forums that agree and think cloak needs to be nerfed into the ground or taken out the game completely. But we have learned not to say such things on here anymore, because the only response you’ll get is “L2P” from players who would get 1vXed without cloak because of their inferior skill level.
Your salt is delicious.9 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭The Debate about the Nb stealth tool is one the forums have been having for quite some time now. The threads usually gett derailed by that one guy/girl who wants to minimize the issue to a skill problem. Endlessly repeating this L2P vitriol.
While yes Aoe counters cloak, and yes, if you can afford to give up potions you can run detect pots and poisons. The issue here lies in the fact that your nerfing your effectiveness against 5 classes to be more effective against 1 witch isn’t a worthy trade off.
My personal Issue lies in two overly effective ways to abuse this arguably overtuned mechanic.
1. Attacks from Stealth,
This particular one is exploited by Sniping bow users most notably, they charge up a extremely hard hitting ability from the safety of being stealth and hit you with 2-3 lethal arrows before the game decides to pull them from stealth. The reasoning behind cast times i assume is because said abilities hit really hard or apply powerful buffs/debuffs/effects and for balance reasons the game gives you time to react and act accordingly. when these attacks are performed from stealth/cloak, not only are they guaranteed to critically hit, they also cannot be seen, removing the needed counterplay to balance these abilities. The simple solution would be to have cast time abilities and heavy attacks pull you from stealth instantly allowing you opponent to react to your assault if the have the ability to do so.
2. Dodge/stealth rotating
Lets go way back to when they first added dodge roll fatigue. The issue was that roll gives frames of “dodge” where you cannot be hit with single target abilities. If you used it in rapid succession you were able to go the majority of a fight essentially immune to single target abilities. ZOS’ solution to this was to add a cost increase on roll if it was used more than once in a 3 second time frame. While this was an effective nerf to most stamina specs, Nightblade was essentially unaffected. This is due to Cloak, cloak as an ability causes single target abilities to miss and last NEARLY 3 seconds. So what was created from this was a defensive weave of two abilities that cost different resources and have separate cooldowns. Nightblades Can roll then immediately cloak after and wait out your roll fatigue while lets say, charging a heavy attack, come out of cloak with said heavy attack then immediately go into another roll after your dodge fatigue has ended . Not only have you managed to be essentially immune to single target from this weave, but you also have bypassed the mechanic put in the game to specifically stop this from happening. So whats been happening is the abuse of this defensive weave from nightblades to kind of beat a system to balace stamina defense. My Solution to this problem would simply be to pause roll fatigue while stealthed, essentially forcing nightblades to be just as conservative with roll as every other stamina spec. While also keeping cloak effects strong and effective.
TLDR; Make cast time pull you from stealth and pause dodge roll fatigue in stealth.
Your barking up the wrong tree man and I agree with you full heartedly. But too many people play nightblade and there will be too much uproar in terms of adjustment to cloak and roll dodge in conjunction. What people keep overlooking is your point on movement speed and cloak. If a nightblade you are fighting has ANY amount of movement speed over you, whether it be through snares, minor, or major expedition. You have little to no chance of pulling them out of cloak.
I noticed this issues as a true dk main that even when you use a ability to pull someone out of stealth I.e mages light, volatile armor, inhale, etc.. By the time a nightblade uses cloak and then you activate the ability to pull them out of stealth, they are already out of the range of the ability. This applies to every skill albeit a detect pot, which is situational because if you are on console and you don’t have it slotted already, chances are they already are out of range.
My proposed change to cloak would be giving it minor protection for the entire duration, increase the duration of 3 secs to 7 secs, decrease the cost by 10-15%, (controversial) add a increase cost mechanic the more times you use it in conjunction , you can’t have additional movement speed while in cloak, and the skill no longer stops the damage of dots when active. That’s a rough draft at some ideas that could change cloak.
What’s also weird is people pointing out how engulfing flames is a good ability to use to pull people out of cloak. Maybe their bias is showing but that skill only works if both of you are standing in the same spot at the same time. It should work like jabs in the sense that I could use the skill and spin in a 360 to reveal those around of me. But no if someone cloaks in front of me and I immediately use breath, unless the person is standing still the skill will never pull anyone reliably out of stealth if they move in any direction.
Keep mind your arguing against people who think cloak is fine but will complain about wings being able to reflect projectiles pre nerf and reflect meteor pre nerf. But hey when it comes to dk “L2P” am I right.2 -
Vietfox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You gotta understand that there exists a large majority of players on this forum who snipe, cloak, enjoy the skill-less hide-and-seek playstyle, and are just overall not that great at PvP so they rely on cloak to avoid getting killed by good players.
My magblade doesn't run snipe
Don’t worry, there is a minority of non-NB good players still on the forums that agree and think cloak needs to be nerfed into the ground or taken out the game completely. But we have learned not to say such things on here anymore, because the only response you’ll get is “L2P” from players who would get 1vXed without cloak because of their inferior skill level.
Non-NB good players don't complain about cloak because they know how to counter it.
Nice try though
11 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭If cloak becomes guaranteed to grant invisibility its full duration regardless of any damage, then you can start trying to nerf it. So long as it can be, and often is, completely negated by nonspecific skills and all-accessible potions, then there’s no discussion to be had.
Stamblade ganker is not even close to the most obnoxious, most powerful, or most difficult to deal with builds, which are granted to the likes of bash-necro, snarebot wardens, and walking pet armies.
I sorta agree with you, in terms of detect potions and poisons I think they should be removed and revealing flare too. AOE’s and things like Curse and PotL should still pull you out of cloak though.
Also just because it isn’t as blatantly over performing as Bash builds(witch are being nerfed) and pet sorc doesn’t mean an adjustment isn’t needed.
Wait what? Remove detect pots? Aren’t you in here saying you have trouble with cloak? Come again?
Seriously, 1 detect pot (and there are ones that have Stam or mag benefits, figure out what’ll help you the most) and line that dude up.
In small group... 2-3.... make sure your partner also has... detect pots. So you can stagger them if need. Trust me the NB isn’t trying to kill you at this point... he’s running.
Solo... yes you might run into a real *** of a NB that plays well. Dodge rolls when the detect pot is up. Resets, runs away... doesn’t mean he killed you though. He will have to stay and fight to get said kill. wait til you pressure him a bit, right before you know he’s getting squirrely pop that detect pot to finish him
I too once thought it was silly to have to have these potions. But for all but the best nbs, detect pot is a quick I win button.
Omg did you read my original post. My gripes were made clear, I Summed up 2 points and how they should be adjusted. My issue isn’t with cloak alone, it is with cloak in tandem with dodge rolling or cast time abilities.
I don’t have an issue with magblade, AOE is more than valid against magblade.
Can we please stop trying to attack attack attack and actually take time to process what exactly it is im saying
@idk
Please quote the two sentences after the one you chose to highlight.
The is olny one shadowy disguise.
There is;
Burning embers
venomous claw
rending slashes
Flame clench
Fetcher infection
Vampires bane
Cripple
and many many many more.
My clense can be effective against any class
whilst my detect pot or radiant magelight is only affective against 1.
I would be careful nerfing stamblades more. They are currently pretty even with stam dk and stamden. all 3 are top tier classes. Honestly everyday I start to think stamdk is actually stronger than stamblade because it’s flat out impossible to deal with block in combination with all their healing. I’m not against nerfing stamblade but I also feel if it’s nerfed stam dk and stamden should be nerfed as well. To keep everything balanced
In regards to the post I actually think pausing the dodge roll fatigue is one of the best nerfs to stamblade I’ve heard. I’m just not currently sure it’s needed. I do feel the counters available are pretty balanced in terms of how other defensive abilities work and how difficult they are to counter. Generally a snare into an AOE is enough to pressure a stamblade. Most people have those things slotted because they are strong without even thinking about how they fare against Nightblades.1 -
Bosi✭✭"Its unfair that players should have to give up 1 advantage for another."
No, actually, its not. Its like saying "I think its unfair that I have to give up armor and resist for more damage. Why can't I just face tank everything and also 1 shot everyone?"
PCNA - AD StamBlade
PCNA - EP StamSorc
"Here's a tip: NightBlade is not a real class." - some nerd
My life pursuit consists of making people upset and if you don't like that, well, that's exactly what I want.11 -
zParallaxz✭✭✭✭✭What I do see here, overall, is an avoidance to use the counters to stealth that are available.
I can attest to the fact they work great as long as they player actually uses them and figures out how to use them effectively. But that is a choice some of us make while others do not.
I understand the counters point.
My counter argument to that is also stated in my post, but I’ll elaborate.
I’m a big small-scaled player, rarely in a group more than 2-3 players and playing alot of time solo.
I often run into situations where I have to deal with multiple players, for me to run detect potions I have to give up potions that would be useful against every other class.
for me to hide my befoul enchant with a conspicuous poison. I’m making myself significantly less effective against any class with healing to deal with nightblades. That’s my issue with the counters. The counters required for nightblades are niche and force you to be less effective against the other 5 classes in the game.
The very fact there are hard counters and you specifically say you area choosing to not use them in certain situation says it all. The game is about choices so saying you would rather use something else than a counter is not justification for a nerf.
I would also suggest that it is irrelevant that you run in extremely small groups as the game is not and should not be designed around very small groups. Again that is a choice. I say that as one who runs solo if not running with a small group. When I am with a small group each person is responsible for certain skill types. Maybe some improvement with your group is needed.
Sorry to mess up your idea with a little logic.
To say the game isn’t and shouldn’t be designed around a specific play style is true , but my specific play style doesn’t change the Fact that current nb counters are niche, and at the end of the day require you to reach farther than is needed to deal with any other classes gimmicks.
Also to say the game shouldn’t at least be attentive to all the ways to enjoy the game is also false, Do I need to remind you of bgs? literally a mode made for small scale pvp. yet this issue remains the same. Using detect pots over anything that gives stamina on a magicka based character is akin to self hate in bgs.
The game should be balanced around small scale just as much as large scale and solo.
No other class forces you to use something that would be completely ineffective against the rest of the game.
Your attempt at the dramatic to make a point does not make it a solid point, more of a gimmick.
I cannot help it you are challenged with using counters but all you are asking for is this game to be nerfed to your playstyle or groups capability and have said nothing that counters what I stated previously. What is funny is even when I run solo I can handle countering NBs cloak yet your groups of 3ish finds it so challenging.
You’re saying i haven’t countered your previous argument, explain.
You say “Use Counters”
I say “ Counters are niche, and the nature of said counters are evidence of a needed change”
What am I missing?
Enlighten me on any other class that requires counters that are completely ineffective against the rest of the game. Please.
I made it clear. Saying counters are niche because you do not want to use them is rather inane as that same line of thought would literally remove much of the skills we have in the game.
By your line of thought Zos must remove all DoT damage, all snares because cleanses are niche. Calling the hard counters niche merely because you do not want to use them, make room for them on your build does not stand solid.
if that does not help you find what you are missing then I cannot help you. As I said, I fun solo and still manage to be able to fit a clock counter. I am sure you group leader can help your team figure out how to handle something so simple and straight forward.
EDIT: I suggest when finding something to be challenging to search for a solution, to rise to the occasion, rather than asking the situation to be nerfed to your playstyle. Find a solution so you or one of your group members can fit a counter into the build which may mean using a different counter than the potions you mentioned. It really is that simple.
I was all about that mentality of overcoming adversity of a situation and being truly “good” at the game. However, that has been thrown out the window with changes to fundamental skills ( wings being nerfed from not reflecting meteors to not reflecting anything), removal of counter play ( not being able to bash someone with cc immunity) , and the constant addition of sets that you would think Zos knows are egregious ( heavy armor isn’t a problem, the sets that give more damage than medium sets while offering the safety of heavy and people using skills to obtain mobility in HEAVY).1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭"Its unfair that players should have to give up 1 advantage for another."
No, actually, its not. Its like saying "I think its unfair that I have to give up armor and resist for more damage. Why can't I just face tank everything and also 1 shot everyone?"
Because I'm a l33t 1vXer of course.1