Guild bid on up to 10 different Guild Trader locations each week with update 23

Dark_Lord_Kuro · July 2019

Well now ghost guild that existed as back up if you lose your bid wont have a reason to exist at all since the real guil now do the joob of 9 ghost guild+real guild and only end up keeping one so in the end potentionally 1 more available trader per ghost guild wich is avaiable to smaller guild

Dark_Lord_Kuro · July 2019

Banshee1505 wrote: »

This only benefits guilds/alliances with a lot of gold. Where's the benefit for the smaller guilds? We asked for a way to make backup guilds disappear and now they implemented a whole backup bid system?

Wich may make back up guild dissapear and liberate the spot since even if you bid 10 you only keep 1

Pevey · July 2019

Dark_Lord_Kuro wrote: »

Well now ghost guild that existed as back up if you lose your bid wont have a reason to exist at all since the real guil now do the joob of 9 ghost guild+real guild and only end up keeping one so in the end potentionally 1 more available trader per ghost guild wich is avaiable to smaller guild

Ghost guilds don't exist as backups the vast majority of the time. They are profit centers. This change will not make them go away.

reoskit · July 2019

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

So, wait... Serious question:

Is anyone happy about this change?

I see representatives from small and large guilds, all saying no. Is anyone good with it?

No you don't! I run a casual guild and I say it's fine and better even if there are no more shadow guilds. The sky is not falling! Tell chicken little to go take a pill!

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

Ingenon · July 2019

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

sylviermoone · July 2019

reoskit wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

So, wait... Serious question:

Is anyone happy about this change?

I see representatives from small and large guilds, all saying no. Is anyone good with it?

No you don't! I run a casual guild and I say it's fine and better even if there are no more shadow guilds. The sky is not falling! Tell chicken little to go take a pill!

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

On the whole, it won't. People that can afford to throw tens of millions of gold to block established guilds (large OR small) from accessing a trading location will not stop. Personally, I don't understand why an established guild would put a bogus guild in the same city. Having fewer options and less variety does not increase the viability of a city; it makes it LESS attractive to customers.

If one has created a shadow guild for the purpose of securing a location that they intend to hand over to the main guild, this change COULD help. If one has created a shadow guild for the purpose of taking over a location only to sell it back to the highest bidder, this change will not help. Only forcing a kiosk to remain locked if the guild that hires it disbands will help that problem.

Giving guilds the ability to bid on A secondary location is a good idea. Giving guilds the ability to bid on TEN locations is just utter and complete effing madness and makes zero sense, to boot. Coupled with the crippling #DataPocalypse and other performance issues, this is beyond an ill-advised change. I have ZERO faith, given the issues of the past month, that this will be executed in a way that doesn't cause a severe headache for all members of the community involved in trader flip.

SteveCampsOut · July 2019

jim_1 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

But why would they? Seriously Who wants to actually give up guild slots for "Shadow" guilds if they no longer have to do so? They have at best the bare minimum of 50 people in them to have aguild store. Those Shadow guilds are not going to eek out any profit worth mentioning. There really is no longer going to be any reason for people to give up a valuable guild slot just so their guild leader wants a shadow guild. There may be the rare few egotistical leaders who keep them going IF they have guild members stupid enough to support them for a guild that will not earn enough gold to make it worth the gold it costs to bid a second location. I mean seriously! The ONLY point of Shadow guilds was to have a backup location. It cost people valuable guild slots for a guild that would only end up being disbanded to give the main guild the trader at best.

DragonRacer · July 2019

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

jim_1 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

But why would they? Seriously Who wants to actually give up guild slots for "Shadow" guilds if they no longer have to do so? They have at best the bare minimum of 50 people in them to have aguild store. Those Shadow guilds are not going to eek out any profit worth mentioning. There really is no longer going to be any reason for people to give up a valuable guild slot just so their guild leader wants a shadow guild. There may be the rare few egotistical leaders who keep them going IF they have guild members stupid enough to support them for a guild that will not earn enough gold to make it worth the gold it costs to bid a second location. I mean seriously! The ONLY point of Shadow guilds was to have a backup location. It cost people valuable guild slots for a guild that would only end up being disbanded to give the main guild the trader at best.

On PC, the world is different, I believe. On PS4, you could conceivably set up any number of “child” accounts using free email addresses and as long as the “parent” account on that system has its one copy of the game and its one PS Plus subscription, all those little baby accounts - all owned by the same person - can join as guild members.

I know plenty of people running multiple alts of this nature to do the crafting dailies and accumulate wealth. I would find that mind-numbingly dull, but it is done.

Same for hitting that 50 member number. You and some buddies/officers all set up a handful of alt accounts and all join that ghost guild and there. No real person with a wasted guild slot, so to speak. And since you all have those alts now anyway with four more ghost guilds they can create/join, well...

... welcome to the PS4 NA Hydra.

WardenofNirn · July 2019

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

jim_1 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

But why would they? Seriously Who wants to actually give up guild slots for "Shadow" guilds if they no longer have to do so? They have at best the bare minimum of 50 people in them to have aguild store. Those Shadow guilds are not going to eek out any profit worth mentioning. There really is no longer going to be any reason for people to give up a valuable guild slot just so their guild leader wants a shadow guild. There may be the rare few egotistical leaders who keep them going IF they have guild members stupid enough to support them for a guild that will not earn enough gold to make it worth the gold it costs to bid a second location. I mean seriously! The ONLY point of Shadow guilds was to have a backup location. It cost people valuable guild slots for a guild that would only end up being disbanded to give the main guild the trader at best.

Do you even read what the others have written?

Some shadow guilds buy up guild trader slots so that they can sell them on to the highest bidder after the trader flip is closed. They even sell it on with a 60% profit from what they gave for the trader. This is not going to stop.

thetoothpick · July 2019

I didn't think it would be possible to break the trading any worse than it is. Thanks for proving me wrong. Morons, but what ever guess we got to live with it because like they listen to their gamer base.

jainiadral · July 2019

Tandor wrote: »

So a restrictive trading system becomes an even more restrictive one, probably even an elitist one.

Shame, but more power to the NPC merchants to whom I will continue to sell my surplus stuff while making do without anything I haven't looted, crafted, or received as a quest reward.

My little Alfiq has been making lots of coin off me recently

I'm guessing NPC merchants around Tamriel will be getting richer off my equipment repairs after the update. Right now, the only thing I buy off traders are repair kits. After this change, prices are going to skyrocket

So much for accomodating new players and the rise in population

This is going to drive more people out of trading and exclude a larger percentage of the player base.

SteveCampsOut · July 2019

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

jim_1 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

But why would they? Seriously Who wants to actually give up guild slots for "Shadow" guilds if they no longer have to do so? They have at best the bare minimum of 50 people in them to have aguild store. Those Shadow guilds are not going to eek out any profit worth mentioning. There really is no longer going to be any reason for people to give up a valuable guild slot just so their guild leader wants a shadow guild. There may be the rare few egotistical leaders who keep them going IF they have guild members stupid enough to support them for a guild that will not earn enough gold to make it worth the gold it costs to bid a second location. I mean seriously! The ONLY point of Shadow guilds was to have a backup location. It cost people valuable guild slots for a guild that would only end up being disbanded to give the main guild the trader at best.

Do you even read what the others have written?

Some shadow guilds buy up guild trader slots so that they can sell them on to the highest bidder after the trader flip is closed. They even sell it on with a 60% profit from what they gave for the trader. This is not going to stop.

I've skipped over a lot of whining sure. I still don't see people giving up guild slots so one guy can "Sell the spot" for profit. He must have oodles of really gullible friends.....

WardenofNirn · July 2019

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

jim_1 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

But why would they? Seriously Who wants to actually give up guild slots for "Shadow" guilds if they no longer have to do so? They have at best the bare minimum of 50 people in them to have aguild store. Those Shadow guilds are not going to eek out any profit worth mentioning. There really is no longer going to be any reason for people to give up a valuable guild slot just so their guild leader wants a shadow guild. There may be the rare few egotistical leaders who keep them going IF they have guild members stupid enough to support them for a guild that will not earn enough gold to make it worth the gold it costs to bid a second location. I mean seriously! The ONLY point of Shadow guilds was to have a backup location. It cost people valuable guild slots for a guild that would only end up being disbanded to give the main guild the trader at best.

Do you even read what the others have written?

Some shadow guilds buy up guild trader slots so that they can sell them on to the highest bidder after the trader flip is closed. They even sell it on with a 60% profit from what they gave for the trader. This is not going to stop.

I've skipped over a lot of whining sure. I still don't see people giving up guild slots so one guy can "Sell the spot" for profit. He must have oodles of really gullible friends.....

Well dude its happening today so what would stop it from happening? What in update 23 would change the game so 50 ppl wont give up 1 guild slot for a ghost guild?

Just curious..

SteveCampsOut · July 2019

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

jim_1 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

But why would they? Seriously Who wants to actually give up guild slots for "Shadow" guilds if they no longer have to do so? They have at best the bare minimum of 50 people in them to have aguild store. Those Shadow guilds are not going to eek out any profit worth mentioning. There really is no longer going to be any reason for people to give up a valuable guild slot just so their guild leader wants a shadow guild. There may be the rare few egotistical leaders who keep them going IF they have guild members stupid enough to support them for a guild that will not earn enough gold to make it worth the gold it costs to bid a second location. I mean seriously! The ONLY point of Shadow guilds was to have a backup location. It cost people valuable guild slots for a guild that would only end up being disbanded to give the main guild the trader at best.

Do you even read what the others have written?

Some shadow guilds buy up guild trader slots so that they can sell them on to the highest bidder after the trader flip is closed. They even sell it on with a 60% profit from what they gave for the trader. This is not going to stop.

I've skipped over a lot of whining sure. I still don't see people giving up guild slots so one guy can "Sell the spot" for profit. He must have oodles of really gullible friends.....

Well dude its happening today so what would stop it from happening? What in update 23 would change the game so 50 ppl wont give up 1 guild slot for a ghost guild?

Just curious..

Um... They realize they don't HAVE to do that so the guild get's their trader.

WardenofNirn · July 2019

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

jim_1 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

But why would they? Seriously Who wants to actually give up guild slots for "Shadow" guilds if they no longer have to do so? They have at best the bare minimum of 50 people in them to have aguild store. Those Shadow guilds are not going to eek out any profit worth mentioning. There really is no longer going to be any reason for people to give up a valuable guild slot just so their guild leader wants a shadow guild. There may be the rare few egotistical leaders who keep them going IF they have guild members stupid enough to support them for a guild that will not earn enough gold to make it worth the gold it costs to bid a second location. I mean seriously! The ONLY point of Shadow guilds was to have a backup location. It cost people valuable guild slots for a guild that would only end up being disbanded to give the main guild the trader at best.

Do you even read what the others have written?

Some shadow guilds buy up guild trader slots so that they can sell them on to the highest bidder after the trader flip is closed. They even sell it on with a 60% profit from what they gave for the trader. This is not going to stop.

I've skipped over a lot of whining sure. I still don't see people giving up guild slots so one guy can "Sell the spot" for profit. He must have oodles of really gullible friends.....

Well dude its happening today so what would stop it from happening? What in update 23 would change the game so 50 ppl wont give up 1 guild slot for a ghost guild?

Just curious..

Um... They realize they don't HAVE to do that so the guild get's their trader.

Well as said multiple times above not all backup guilds are made to function that way. Some backup guilds are made for the sole purpose of selling the guild trader spot on for the double what they gave or to the highest bidder.

reoskit · July 2019

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

. I still don't see people giving up guild slots so one guy can "Sell the spot" for profit. He must have oodles of really gullible friends.....

... Or a lot of really cheap base accounts that can be added as placeholders to hit the 50 mark for 5 guilds.

SteveCampsOut · July 2019

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

jim_1 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

But why would they? Seriously Who wants to actually give up guild slots for "Shadow" guilds if they no longer have to do so? They have at best the bare minimum of 50 people in them to have aguild store. Those Shadow guilds are not going to eek out any profit worth mentioning. There really is no longer going to be any reason for people to give up a valuable guild slot just so their guild leader wants a shadow guild. There may be the rare few egotistical leaders who keep them going IF they have guild members stupid enough to support them for a guild that will not earn enough gold to make it worth the gold it costs to bid a second location. I mean seriously! The ONLY point of Shadow guilds was to have a backup location. It cost people valuable guild slots for a guild that would only end up being disbanded to give the main guild the trader at best.

Do you even read what the others have written?

Some shadow guilds buy up guild trader slots so that they can sell them on to the highest bidder after the trader flip is closed. They even sell it on with a 60% profit from what they gave for the trader. This is not going to stop.

I've skipped over a lot of whining sure. I still don't see people giving up guild slots so one guy can "Sell the spot" for profit. He must have oodles of really gullible friends.....

Well dude its happening today so what would stop it from happening? What in update 23 would change the game so 50 ppl wont give up 1 guild slot for a ghost guild?

Just curious..

Um... They realize they don't HAVE to do that so the guild get's their trader.

Well as said multiple times above not all backup guilds are made to function that way. Some backup guilds are made for the sole purpose of selling the guild trader spot on for the double what they gave or to the highest bidder.

Well I don't know who they're selling them to. No one has offered to sell me back our trader when we've lost them. But whatever. I'm out. You have fun whining about this. I have better things to do.

WildRaptorX · July 2019

So disappointing. I love the small guild’s stores. They’re full of bargains

WardenofNirn · July 2019

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

WardenofNirn wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

jim_1 wrote: »

reoskit wrote: »

As I noted, it was a serious question. I'd like to hear more from people who are happy about this.

Can you explain how this will eliminate shadow (/ghost/whatever we want to call them) guilds?

This change (in Update 23) will not eliminate shadow guilds, in my opinion. A wealthy guild can more easily buy a primary location (placing multiple bids), and their shadow guild(s) can buy other locations (also placing multiple bids, given enough coin).

Now, if ZOS follows up with another change, say in Update 23 + n, that prohibits the resale of a purchased guild trader ...
That would be interesting, in my opinion. How do you make in game money off of a shadow guild, if you cannot resell the guild trader that the shadow guild is purchasing?

But why would they? Seriously Who wants to actually give up guild slots for "Shadow" guilds if they no longer have to do so? They have at best the bare minimum of 50 people in them to have aguild store. Those Shadow guilds are not going to eek out any profit worth mentioning. There really is no longer going to be any reason for people to give up a valuable guild slot just so their guild leader wants a shadow guild. There may be the rare few egotistical leaders who keep them going IF they have guild members stupid enough to support them for a guild that will not earn enough gold to make it worth the gold it costs to bid a second location. I mean seriously! The ONLY point of Shadow guilds was to have a backup location. It cost people valuable guild slots for a guild that would only end up being disbanded to give the main guild the trader at best.

Do you even read what the others have written?

Some shadow guilds buy up guild trader slots so that they can sell them on to the highest bidder after the trader flip is closed. They even sell it on with a 60% profit from what they gave for the trader. This is not going to stop.

I've skipped over a lot of whining sure. I still don't see people giving up guild slots so one guy can "Sell the spot" for profit. He must have oodles of really gullible friends.....

Well dude its happening today so what would stop it from happening? What in update 23 would change the game so 50 ppl wont give up 1 guild slot for a ghost guild?

Just curious..

Um... They realize they don't HAVE to do that so the guild get's their trader.

Well as said multiple times above not all backup guilds are made to function that way. Some backup guilds are made for the sole purpose of selling the guild trader spot on for the double what they gave or to the highest bidder.

Well I don't know who they're selling them to. No one has offered to sell me back our trader when we've lost them. But whatever. I'm out. You have fun whining about this. I have better things to do.

No they have not because your trader might never have been attacked by a backup guild cause its not such a desirable location. They are selling the traders to guilds that has just lost their bids and stand without a trader at that moment. Go do your better things, not like your comments here led anywhere anyways.

GarnetFire17 · July 2019

Androconium wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

In the long run this is going to be very negative I think:

- More volatility in the market... easier to take a punt on taking a trader elsewhere if you know you have mutltiple backups... and unreliability in peoples traders is bad for everyone at every level.

- Higher bid costs due to above... and knock on effect on players having to pay more to support the bids.

- Medium/lower tier more disrupted by higher end trade guilds placing large backups on them. This will be FAR easier to do than creating ghost guilds so will become far more common.

- Trickle down effect increases costs on traders further down and increases the barrier to entry for newer guilds.

This is undoubtedly an overall benefit for the top tier trading guilds, but even then I see the potential for disruptive market behaviour which many may not like.

Feels like a poorly thought out solution to the ghost guild problem...

Well, they don't actually say that they are addressing the ghost guild/trader issue.

The fundamental problem is donations and minimum sales targets. Or put another way, players who think that they have to have a trader in a 'high-profile' location every week.

Stop donating, start missing your sales targets. The trading world will continue to turn. If your guild kicks you for non-compliance, the new guild finder will help you find another one easily, without having to wait for Sunday's chat-spam recruitment drives.

Traders in outlying areas still make sales; everything, priced correctly will sell.

You don't seem to understand how people shop in ESO. Most don't want to search for things, they want to just check a few guild traders in a major hub and quickly grab what they want. That's the reason those spots are in such demand and are so expensive to win each week.

Imza · July 2019

BUUUUT....

this may help to fix guild finder by not having as many guilds made and deleted every week....

SteveCampsOut · July 2019

Imza wrote: »

BUUUUT....

this may help to fix guild finder by not having as many guilds made and deleted every week....

Maybe they could just start banning accounts that make and delete guilds every week....

Elsonso · July 2019

Sounds like they need to have part of these bids non-refundable.

Mewpers · July 2019

We need clarification on whether multiple bids can be made using the same pool of money or whether only the ultrarich guilds will be able to make adequate use of this feature.

Artmetis · July 2019

f047ys3v3n wrote: »

Not sure why people are pissed about this or why they don't think the change will help small guilds.

The effects should be:

1) Smaller guilds will rarely loose their spot to a big dog since the big dogs will no longer have to buy up secondary spots on weeks they don't loose their primary and they rarely loose their primary.

Smaller/Mid sized guilds and non even large established guilds, that have not been around long WILL 100% lose out. If I (as a Large, 'established' guild) bid 12 mil, 11 mil, 10 mil...etc on 10 different spots. That would be a total of 75 mil in bids that week. My large guild would have that 'war chest' available.

If I lose my bid on my, say, top 5 choices, but win the 6th bid. I will be pushing out a large or mid sized guild. That guild in turn does their bids of 10 mil, 9 mil, etc... they, in turn, push out another large/mid sized guild, in a less expensive zone, ETC. Till all the stalls are taken up! Good bye smaller, and many mid guilds! PLZ NOTE: If you don't have that kinda $ you can NEVER get a trader. Mid and small guilds don't.

2) Overall trader costs will lower as there are now fewer total guilds bidding for a spot (this is because you just removed all those shadow guilds of the big dogs.) Simple supply and demand here.

Actually, there will only be fewer guilds bidding, as they either give up getting a trader cause it's to expensive, or they break up. There are not that many 'shadow guilds.' Remember, the price effect will trickle down, if i kick out a mid sized guild, and they kick out a smaller guild etc. Overall prices will go UP exponentially, as you have to bid a lot more to secure your spot no matter where you are! 100% a money sink, and it will chase players away from the game, as guilds have to raise membership fees etc.

3) Week to week prices for specific traders will become more consistent and possibly also lower because the severe negative effect of loosing your bid (no trader at all) has been removed. You will now likely still get a lesser trader. (A secondary effect of this will be that spying will offer less advantages than it previously did.)

Spying is minimal at best, with the hide the guild bank balance option. Week to week prices will only go UP. "Oh, I lost my stall choices at a 10, 9, 8 mil etc, I'll bid 12, 11, 10 etc. Again, another gold sink. While I agree with the needs for ZOS to cleanse gold from the economy, it is totally wrong to take it from the ones that need to BUILD UP resources, such as smaller/med/newer guilds

4) Guilds trader locations will move more often because, with a less disastrous worst case scenario, guilds will take more chances on bids to save money and will also take more chances on improving their location. This should be really pronounced right after the change as guilds currently have little data on how much location effects their sales and at least some of them will be adventuresome enough to want to find out if a move up or down in location is more profitable.

Again, this will only benefit guilds with lots of $ in their 'war chest.' Newer, smaller and mid guilds WILL get knocked down, cause established guilds have the $ to bid on their preference. with backups on THOSE 'less established' guilds that they know they can knock out, due to the location, et al.

5) I expect the competition between guilds to become more dynamic and involve less cartel behavior (ie. getting other guilds leaders banned right before the bid to prevent them from bidding). In effect, being able to explore multiple options for trader locations based on price should bring the market closer to free market ideals and decrease the benefits of anti-competitive behavior. It certainly greatly lowers the barriers to entry to start and especially to grow a trade guild.

O.o Actually, it will get MORE guilds to be involved in cartel behavior. "Ok guild leads of us 20 guilds. you don't bid on our, we wont bid on yours... Lets all place 2nd bids on xyz. You take Wayrest... You take Greenshade, I'll take Vvarden, etc". 100% I know this will happen. Yet again, bye bye non 'established,' guilds. This will chase away players from the game.

In short, I think the changes will make things dramatically better for almost all players in the market and that they should completely solve the problem of shadow trade guilds.

Some advice to many of you who have posted.... Just put your investments in index funds IRL. The lack of basic understanding about how markets work in here is just staggering.

I was marketing and Economics majors in College. I am not trying to be derogative to your post. But I see it as I call it, being the GM of one of the large established guilds on the server. I also online invest IRL in different stock markets/indices. Little and mid sized guilds WILL be pushed out. Not to mention some ppl will not be able to join a larger guild, due to ppl fighting for the spots of those guilds that keep their stalls. This will force um to either join a guild with no trader.. and eventually lose interest in the game, since they can't compete. Or simply quit the game, as it will get boring to them, not being able to raise $ to be competitive. @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno plz do an opinion poll on this, or testing, or anything. This 100% can be trade guild breaking. I know many GMs that stand against this. Many of who are larger established guilds, cause we do not want to chase players away from the game we love, we want it to grow, this will shrink the player base.

generalmyrick · July 2019

I run a small trading guild on PS4 but for the past three years I've ran it like a very intelligent corporation taking all of our profits and stashing away. my guild will be able to put in 10 bids at very high prices that are still not going to lose US money and I'm pretty sure guaranteeing a spot every week I love these changes!!!

wolfie1.0. · July 2019

GMs,

I am not sure what you want to accomplish with this move. If its to address the issue of guilds fighting too much over the same trader locations this will not address that as it will actually make the issue worse as it allows guilds to activily attack one another. IF it is instead to shake things up and make the guild trade system more dynamic really what you are going to do is create mega guilds with warring factions that will ultimately lock out new new guilds, new players, and cause a stagnate economy.

Here are my suggestions:

1) reduce the back up bid limit down to either 2 or 3
2) add 1 -3 additional traders to each major non DLC non chapter trading hub.
3) if your guild wins a bid at a trader location, it is LOCKED from buying another location until reset
4) if a guild disbands prior to next reset the trader is LOCKED and unable to be purchased until reset

EllieBlue · July 2019

Utter madness. At this point, what would a reasonably serious trading guild need to do in order to survive, and to continue to be able to afford to make winning bids on that one spot, weekly, weeks in weeks out? Something that is needed in order to have stability, which is paramount for any serious trading guild. Because with this new change taking place, stability will go the Dodo bird way, really fast.

1. Raise sales requirement
2. Raise the amount of gold donation/fees for those not hitting weekly sales requirement
3. OR replace no 2 with mandatory fees for all members
4. Be more restrictive with rules, duration of offline days, no-sales grace period

because bid costs are going to rise by at least double, if not triple on normal weeks. On DLC and new chapter week, bids will go up by x10, and for the next 3-4 weeks after that initial week.

So the one that loses the most here will be guild members/regular players. New players want to join the main hub's trading guilds? Only if you are able to produce sales good enough from the get-go. Those players that only want to donate 5k weekly but not sell anything when they don't feel up to it? Sorry, can't afford to keep you anymore. Community? What community?

Meanwhile, trading guild GMs are going to continue getting the fat cat, thieving, scamming scums title from players that felt like they have been wronged after being removed from their trading guild. At the same time, (disgruntled) trading guild GMs are trying, desperately to raise gold weekly in order to be able to afford the rising amount needed for winning bids, in between trying to deal with the guild history data troubles, demands and questions about all the changes from their members, all in 7 days, week in week out.

Good luck everyone, both regular traders and trading guild GMs!

Disclaimer: The scenario only, possibly, applies to the trading guilds in the major hubs - Craglorn, Mournhold, Wayrest, Elden, Rawl and possibly even the next tier locations. Will not apply, much, to waaaaaay out in the woods single trader casual guilds, maybe.

The ones that will benefit from this new change will be the jumper guilds. Put 10 bids on 10 different guilds, one will surely stick! It's open season, betches!

Kidgangster101 · July 2019

jaws343 wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

ZOS???

How is this going to help anyone except the large trading guilds? Seriously?

My main guild only has about 500k to bid each week which is rarely enough to get a trader. We would need 5 million gold to cover 10 spots. That is insane!

The point isn't to necessarily cover 10 spots though. You could bid on your normal spot and then bid a tiny amount on a secondary, potentially cheaper spot. That way if you lose the first bid, maybe you win the second and at least still have a trader for the week.

It also helps to fix some of the fake bidding being done by empty guilds. They only do it to ensure they have a spot, now larger guilds will be able to bid on both locations and then when they win their more expensive good location, the next bidder up gets the secondary spot instead of their fake guild that they were using to hold a place just in case.

Yeah not stopping fake guilds from re selling now lololol. In fact this will actually help them. They could possibly get more spots because they sit on so much gold it's crazy.....

And this murders any chance of small guilds from getting spots........

Again why must we have a trader system for people to sell items again? Why prevent players from trading items (being locked out of a portion of the game) just because they play more casual and don't want to pay a weekly fee or sell certain amounts of items, or better yet maybe they use all 5 guild slots to run content?

This trader system is a flop and should have been gutted already, all they ever do is make it worse and not fix the actual problems lol.

therift · July 2019

Mewpers wrote: »

We need clarification on whether multiple bids can be made using the same pool of money or whether only the ultrarich guilds will be able to make adequate use of this feature.

No, we don't need 'clarification' of something that is explicitly clear.

Losing bids are refunded. You may bid as long as you have sufficient gold. The statements are clearly drawn from the assumption that gold is deducted per bid, just as it is now, otherwise there would be no need for refunds, nor would the balance of gold in the guild account limit the extent of additional bids.

I'm surprised this has to be explained in a game that requires above average savvy to play.