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Guild bid on up to 10 different Guild Trader locations each week with update 23

WardenofNirn
WardenofNirn
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``With Update 23, you can have your Guild bid on up to 10 different Guild Trader locations each week. Priority is given to the location with the highest bid, and if you miss your first preference, the system checks your second, third, and so on. Once you win a bid on a Guild Trader, all other bids are refunded back to your Guild bank. With this addition, it is easier to ensure you get a Guild Trader location you like (as long as you have the gold to bid)!``

This will only help the biggest trading guilds out there to ensure a trader each week. What small or medium sized guild has tens or even hundreds of millions on their bank account, letting them bid on 10 locations at once?

Why did you implement this? To get rid of all bigger guilds backup traders in a nice way? @ZOS_GinaBruno
  • reoskit
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    This will only help the biggest trading guilds out there to ensure a trader each week. What small or medium sized guild has tens or even hundreds of millions on their bank account, letting them bid on 10 locations at once?

    As one of the big guilds, I absolutely agree. This does nothing to help smaller guilds get a kiosk.

    There are other ramifications that give me pause, but ^ that is important for the guilds trying to join the trading scene.

    (As one of my guildies noted: at least we won't accidentally lock ourselves into the wrong kiosk anymore. That is an awesome change.)
  • Gariele
    Gariele
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    This doesn’t do anything to address backup traders. All it does is empower big trade guilds to have a 99.9999% chance of getting a trader. Small guilds will suffer in the long run
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  • Dont_do_drugs
    Dont_do_drugs
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    This is gamebreaking. tho I could agree and live with 2 or 3 spots, but 10 is massive. It gives a huge advantage to superrich and established guilds, since those are the only ones able to bid 10 times 5 till 10 millions. while that its also a massive goldsink for those, who are keen to defend specific spots or hubs and will increase donations and requirements massively.

    edit: someone later reminded me of staying strong. this is no topic for compromises.
    Edited by Dont_do_drugs on July 3, 2019 4:25PM

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  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    WTF.gif ZOS???

    How is this going to help anyone except the large trading guilds? Seriously?

    My main guild only has about 500k to bid each week which is rarely enough to get a trader. We would need 5 million gold to cover 10 spots. That is insane!
    headbang.gif

  • Kagukan
    Kagukan
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    Broken auction system...The end.
  • Devanear
    Devanear
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    Why not let a single bid work for the multiple kiosks? Same system, same matching but without requiring so much extra gold. I believe that would be more beneficial for smaller guilds. Perhaps there's a downside I'm not seeing :/
  • reoskit
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    To allay some fears - do remember that the larger trade guilds would have to lose their first/second/third choices to start taking away the less desirable spots. You can only hire one kiosk per week - all other bids are backups.

    (That said, I stand by my original point that I'm not sure how this helps smaller guilds without funds to make backup bids.)
  • Elessar1993
    Elessar1993
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    I would say that it's a nice try, but in order for it to work for smaller guilds as well it should just take the gold from the highest bid and refund any leftovers. But indeed, 10 is a lot.
    Guildmaster of Stendarr's Merchantry which is part of Valinor Trading Union
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    • Stendarr's Merchantry: Alinor, 10k sales or 5k donations, @Elessar1993
  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    WTF.gif ZOS???

    How is this going to help anyone except the large trading guilds? Seriously?

    My main guild only has about 500k to bid each week which is rarely enough to get a trader. We would need 5 million gold to cover 10 spots. That is insane!
    headbang.gif

    The point isn't to necessarily cover 10 spots though. You could bid on your normal spot and then bid a tiny amount on a secondary, potentially cheaper spot. That way if you lose the first bid, maybe you win the second and at least still have a trader for the week.

    It also helps to fix some of the fake bidding being done by empty guilds. They only do it to ensure they have a spot, now larger guilds will be able to bid on both locations and then when they win their more expensive good location, the next bidder up gets the secondary spot instead of their fake guild that they were using to hold a place just in case.
  • SteveCampsOut
    SteveCampsOut
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    `
    Why did you implement this? To get rid of all bigger guilds backup traders in a nice way? @ZOS_GinaBruno

    Hey! Whatever works! If it stops the bigger guilds from ransacking traders with backup guilds I'm all for it. Not that they won't biud on our small guild traders anymore but maybe it'll be less likely and calm some of the tradewar battles between the big guilds down a bit.
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  • DragonRacer
    DragonRacer
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    Not sure how to feel about this. It depends on how, exactly, this is supposed to function.

    Will it be like...

    1) I have 10 million in my guild bank. I bid 9 million on Trader A and 1 million on Trader B and can place no more additional bids because I have used up all of my funds. This is my suspicion since currently, when you place your bid, that money appears as "withdrawn" from your guild bank.

    OR

    2) I have 10 million in my guild bank. I bid 9 million on 10 different traders knowing that only one will actually win.

    Which is it, @ZOS_GinaBruno ?
    PS5 NA. GM of The PTK's - a free trading guild (CP 500+). Also a werewolf, bites are free when they're available. PSN = DragonRacer13
  • reoskit
    reoskit
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    Not sure how to feel about this. It depends on how, exactly, this is supposed to function.

    Will it be like...

    1) I have 10 million in my guild bank. I bid 9 million on Trader A and 1 million on Trader B and can place no more additional bids because I have used up all of my funds. This is my suspicion since currently, when you place your bid, that money appears as "withdrawn" from your guild bank.

    OR

    2) I have 10 million in my guild bank. I bid 9 million on 10 different traders knowing that only one will actually win.

    Which is it, @ZOS_GinaBruno ?

    1; it says all others will be refunded - this means they're taking the gold, just as they do with the bids now.

    Edit: to explain why I said 1.
    Edited by reoskit on July 2, 2019 6:36PM
  • Dont_do_drugs
    Dont_do_drugs
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    WTF.gif ZOS???

    How is this going to help anyone except the large trading guilds? Seriously?

    My main guild only has about 500k to bid each week which is rarely enough to get a trader. We would need 5 million gold to cover 10 spots. That is insane!
    headbang.gif

    The point isn't to necessarily cover 10 spots though. You could bid on your normal spot and then bid a tiny amount on a secondary, potentially cheaper spot. That way if you lose the first bid, maybe you win the second and at least still have a trader for the week.

    It also helps to fix some of the fake bidding being done by empty guilds. They only do it to ensure they have a spot, now larger guilds will be able to bid on both locations and then when they win their more expensive good location, the next bidder up gets the secondary spot instead of their fake guild that they were using to hold a place just in case.

    I dont get, why those guilds are getting rewarded now...

    Get Stuff like this (but not this stuff)


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    They can only bla-bla and waste gold on feeding their ego. I am disappointed."

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  • SirAndy
    SirAndy
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    WTF.gif ZOS???
    How is this going to help anyone except the large trading guilds? Seriously?
    My main guild only has about 500k to bid each week which is rarely enough to get a trader. We would need 5 million gold to cover 10 spots. That is insane!
    headbang.gif

    The point isn't to necessarily cover 10 spots though. You could bid on your normal spot and then bid a tiny amount on a secondary, potentially cheaper spot. That way if you lose the first bid, maybe you win the second and at least still have a trader for the week.
    It also helps to fix some of the fake bidding being done by empty guilds. They only do it to ensure they have a spot, now larger guilds will be able to bid on both locations and then when they win their more expensive good location, the next bidder up gets the secondary spot instead of their fake guild that they were using to hold a place just in case.

    When was the last time you won a guild trader with a "tiny amount"? 2014?
    poke.gif

  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    WTF.gif ZOS???

    How is this going to help anyone except the large trading guilds? Seriously?

    My main guild only has about 500k to bid each week which is rarely enough to get a trader. We would need 5 million gold to cover 10 spots. That is insane!
    headbang.gif

    The point isn't to necessarily cover 10 spots though. You could bid on your normal spot and then bid a tiny amount on a secondary, potentially cheaper spot. That way if you lose the first bid, maybe you win the second and at least still have a trader for the week.

    It also helps to fix some of the fake bidding being done by empty guilds. They only do it to ensure they have a spot, now larger guilds will be able to bid on both locations and then when they win their more expensive good location, the next bidder up gets the secondary spot instead of their fake guild that they were using to hold a place just in case.

    I dont get, why those guilds are getting rewarded now...

    Nothing was going to prevent them from doing that. So at least this way, no one is getting shafted from getting a trader by shadow guilds. It isn't really a reward as it is a better bidding system. One that smaller guilds can take advantage of as well by bidding a smaller amount on an out of the way trader just in case. And since the money is refunded, it isn't like it hurts anything.
  • SammiSakura
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    This is just insane. I dont understand the reasoning behind this. If its to get rid of backups, just do what we asked and stop disbanding a guild from freeing the trader, that would fix it much more effectively. My small guild cant afford this!
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  • OsManiaC
    OsManiaC
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    Can I please take guild sales history gone problem instead of this?

    Please ?
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  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    This is just insane. I dont understand the reasoning behind this. If its to get rid of backups, just do what we asked and stop disbanding a guild from freeing the trader, that would fix it much more effectively. My small guild cant afford this!

    What can't you afford exactly?

    Current situation:
    Guild A bids on main trader.
    Guild A also creates Guild B, a shadow Guild to bid on secondary trader just in case.
    Your Guild bids on a main trader (which is Guild A's backup)
    Guild A wins main trader bid but their Guild B bid also wins their secondary.
    Your Guild has no trader. Guild A has main trader, and their backup guild has a shell trader that they can choose to release or retain.

    New Bid Situation:
    Guild A Bids on main trader.
    Guild A Bids on secondary trader.
    Your guild Bids on a main trader (which is Guild A's backup)
    Guild A wins main trader bid. Guild A's secondary bid goes away.
    Your guild wins it's main trader build.

    And now, your guild has an option to drop an even smaller bid into a another location, just in case.

    In both scenarios, there is a chance that you lose your trader to Guild A. But at least in scenario 2, the upcoming changes, you retain your bid if Guild A wins their main bid. Something that wasn't happening in the current bidding.
  • Countdownical
    Countdownical
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    Uhhh.. Seriously ZOS, this is just proof that you don't give a *** about anything anymore, and keep breaking the game piece by piece. I know several guilds who are already planning to disband bc of the latest issues you've been causing and managing a guild is stressful enough and this just pushed them over the edge.. Simply not worth it anymore.

    If you want a revolution - you're on your way to create one.
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  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    WTF.gif ZOS???
    How is this going to help anyone except the large trading guilds? Seriously?
    My main guild only has about 500k to bid each week which is rarely enough to get a trader. We would need 5 million gold to cover 10 spots. That is insane!
    headbang.gif

    The point isn't to necessarily cover 10 spots though. You could bid on your normal spot and then bid a tiny amount on a secondary, potentially cheaper spot. That way if you lose the first bid, maybe you win the second and at least still have a trader for the week.
    It also helps to fix some of the fake bidding being done by empty guilds. They only do it to ensure they have a spot, now larger guilds will be able to bid on both locations and then when they win their more expensive good location, the next bidder up gets the secondary spot instead of their fake guild that they were using to hold a place just in case.

    When was the last time you won a guild trader with a "tiny amount"? 2014?
    poke.gif

    You literally don't have to change the way you are bidding at all if you don't want to. Nothing is going to be impacted at all by this other than maybe the shadow guilds will go away and the big guilds might win a few smaller traders here and there. But as least when they win their main spots, the smaller trader will go to the next bid and the smaller guilds will have better shots of not getting sniped by a fake guild looking for a placeholder.
  • Dont_do_drugs
    Dont_do_drugs
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    WTF.gif ZOS???

    How is this going to help anyone except the large trading guilds? Seriously?

    My main guild only has about 500k to bid each week which is rarely enough to get a trader. We would need 5 million gold to cover 10 spots. That is insane!
    headbang.gif

    The point isn't to necessarily cover 10 spots though. You could bid on your normal spot and then bid a tiny amount on a secondary, potentially cheaper spot. That way if you lose the first bid, maybe you win the second and at least still have a trader for the week.

    It also helps to fix some of the fake bidding being done by empty guilds. They only do it to ensure they have a spot, now larger guilds will be able to bid on both locations and then when they win their more expensive good location, the next bidder up gets the secondary spot instead of their fake guild that they were using to hold a place just in case.

    I dont get, why those guilds are getting rewarded now...

    Nothing was going to prevent them from doing that. So at least this way, no one is getting shafted from getting a trader by shadow guilds. It isn't really a reward as it is a better bidding system. One that smaller guilds can take advantage of as well by bidding a smaller amount on an out of the way trader just in case. And since the money is refunded, it isn't like it hurts anything.

    it definitely is a reward, bcs they can go on what they did without having the effort of building a new guild for it. its actually pretty much the same. and as before those with the big bank will have the advantage, bcs smaller and newcoming guilds often cant afford multiple bids with their bank. and talking about the beeing refunded: if i am starting to bid 10 x 10 mio i can do it it, bcs i am having the financial backup, but someone who just starts and is depending on the weekly sales bcs of lacking funds, that someone wont be able to compete with the same tactics. also u need to add on that, that years of exploitive methods in trading already produced a massive gap between rich and poor (guilds) in this game and those funds will benefit those, who are that rich, old and established.

    Get Stuff like this (but not this stuff)


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    "I have too admit. People leading trade guilds in this game are quite stupid. Not stupid like fools, but stupid like leaders.
    They can only bla-bla and waste gold on feeding their ego. I am disappointed."

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  • SteveCampsOut
    SteveCampsOut
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    Uhhh.. Seriously ZOS, this is just proof that you don't give a *** about anything anymore, and keep breaking the game piece by piece. I know several guilds who are already planning to disband bc of the latest issues you've been causing and managing a guild is stressful enough and this just pushed them over the edge.. Simply not worth it anymore.

    If you want a revolution - you're on your way to create one.

    Drama Queens to door 12 please. Step lively!
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  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    SirAndy wrote: »
    WTF.gif ZOS???

    How is this going to help anyone except the large trading guilds? Seriously?

    My main guild only has about 500k to bid each week which is rarely enough to get a trader. We would need 5 million gold to cover 10 spots. That is insane!
    headbang.gif

    The point isn't to necessarily cover 10 spots though. You could bid on your normal spot and then bid a tiny amount on a secondary, potentially cheaper spot. That way if you lose the first bid, maybe you win the second and at least still have a trader for the week.

    It also helps to fix some of the fake bidding being done by empty guilds. They only do it to ensure they have a spot, now larger guilds will be able to bid on both locations and then when they win their more expensive good location, the next bidder up gets the secondary spot instead of their fake guild that they were using to hold a place just in case.

    I dont get, why those guilds are getting rewarded now...

    Nothing was going to prevent them from doing that. So at least this way, no one is getting shafted from getting a trader by shadow guilds. It isn't really a reward as it is a better bidding system. One that smaller guilds can take advantage of as well by bidding a smaller amount on an out of the way trader just in case. And since the money is refunded, it isn't like it hurts anything.

    it definitely is a reward, bcs they can go on what they did without having the effort of building a new guild for it. its actually pretty much the same. and as before those with the big bank will have the advantage, bcs smaller and newcoming guilds often cant afford multiple bids with their bank. and talking about the beeing refunded: if i am starting to bid 10 x 10 mio i can do it it, bcs i am having the financial backup, but someone who just starts and is depending on the weekly sales bcs of lacking funds, that someone wont be able to compete with the same tactics. also u need to add on that, that years of exploitive methods in trading already produced a massive gap between rich and poor (guilds) in this game and those funds will benefit those, who are that rich, old and established.

    No, it isn't the same though. As it is now, a Guild and their shadow counterpart can win both bids and eat up two trader locations. With this new system, they can bid on both locations and only win one, and then the second location goes to the next bidder. Literally different than it is now and a vast improvement.
  • Rushinator
    Rushinator
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    I 100% agree this is favors big guilds over small guilds and I say this as a GM of a large guild who'll be able to afford throwing out tons of gold if necessary.

    However its also going to VASTLY increase bid prices. You'll now have tons of guilds bidding against your spot every week because they can now bid on your spot & nine others.

    There is now ZERO risk to start a trade war & bump another guild. So what if your 1st bid fails? You have 9 others that are likely to win.

    There will also be a domino effect every time a guild bumps another. Guild A bumps Guild B which bumps Guild C & so on until you get to Guild X who doesn't win any of their 10 bids (if they even placed all 10 bids).

    The pressure is now on to bid even higher every week & toss more gold into the pot.

    You now have to fund multiple bids each week & be aware that people can bid against you without fear of losing.

    Any guilds that have enjoyed "low-balling" will have their hearts broken. The days of "low-balling" are over.

    It'll be incredibly to say go to Wayrest & bid 8M on all 7 spots & see which of those 7 guilds has been low-balling.
    Edited by Rushinator on July 2, 2019 7:03PM
  • Dont_do_drugs
    Dont_do_drugs
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    No, it isn't the same though. As it is now, a Guild and their shadow counterpart can win both bids and eat up two trader locations.

    Well they eat up two locations for 5 minutes, then the location will get sold to the one giving u the most gold for it. its pretty much the same.

    Get Stuff like this (but not this stuff)


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    "I have too admit. People leading trade guilds in this game are quite stupid. Not stupid like fools, but stupid like leaders.
    They can only bla-bla and waste gold on feeding their ego. I am disappointed."

    Egal, wie gut du Schach spielst, die Taube wird alle Figuren umwerfen, auf das Brett kacken und herumstolzieren, als hätte sie gewonnen.

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  • reoskit
    reoskit
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    Rushinator wrote: »
    I 100% agree this is favors big guilds over small guilds and I say this as a GM of a large guild who'll be able to afford throwing out tons of gold if necessary.

    However its also going to VASTLY increase bid prices. You'll now have tons of guilds bidding against your spot every week because they can now bid on your spot & nine others.

    There is now ZERO risk to start a trade war & bump another guild. So what if your 1st bid fails? You have 9 others that are likely to win.

    The pressure is now on to bid even higher every week & toss more gold into the pot.

    You now have to fund multiple bids each week & be aware that people can bid against you without fear of losing.

    Any guilds that have enjoyed "low-balling" will have their hearts broken. The days of "low-balling" are over.

    It'll be incredibly to say go to Wayrest & bid 8M on all 7 spots & see which of those 7 guilds has been low-balling.

    ^ And there are the other implications I alluded to earlier. Amen, @Rushinator. Times are changing.
  • SirAndy
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    You literally don't have to change the way you are bidding at all if you don't want to.

    That literally is not the point of this thread.

    Again, those changes will only benefit the large trading guilds with deep pockets.
    Everyone else has already been pushed to the edge of the guild trader system, and this may very well push most of us mid/smaller sized guilds completely out of the system.

    My main guild is not a trading guild, we have been providing a kiosk to our members as a service. We don't charge fees.
    We have about 450 members with maybe 100 active at any given day.
    The weekly 500k we need to maintain a trader comes from donations and a large portion of that is covered by the same few officers each and every week. So in reality we have been operating at a loss just to be able to provide this service to our members.

    I imagine most mid/small size guilds operate in a similar fashion. There simply isn't enough gold for us to maintain more than one bid that has any chance of actually winning.
    dry.gif

    Edited by SirAndy on July 2, 2019 7:12PM
  • jaws343
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    SirAndy wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    You literally don't have to change the way you are bidding at all if you don't want to.

    That literally is not the point of this thread.

    Again, those changes will only benefit the large trading guilds with deep pockets.
    Everyone else has already been pushed to the edge of the guild trader system, and this may very well push most of us mid/smaller sized guilds completely out of the system.

    My main guild is not a trading guild, we have been providing a kiosk to our members as a service. We don't charge fees.
    We have about 450 members with maybe 100 active at any given day.
    The weekly 500k we need to maintain a trader comes from donations and a large portion of that is covered by the same few officers each and every week. So in reality we have been operating at a loss just to be able to provide this service to our members.

    I imagine most mid/small size guilds operate in a similar fashion. There simply isn't enough gold for us to maintain more than one bid that has any chance of actually winning.
    dry.gif

    So continue bidding the way you have. Nothing is changing there. You will continue to win or lose based on if a larger guild is running that trader as a backup. And you will win more since a larger guild won't be winning both of their locations with a backup guild.
  • Flaminir
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    In the long run this is going to be very negative I think:

    - More volatility in the market... easier to take a punt on taking a trader elsewhere if you know you have mutltiple backups... and unreliability in peoples traders is bad for everyone at every level.

    - Higher bid costs due to above... and knock on effect on players having to pay more to support the bids.

    - Medium/lower tier more disrupted by higher end trade guilds placing large backups on them. This will be FAR easier to do than creating ghost guilds so will become far more common.

    - Trickle down effect increases costs on traders further down and increases the barrier to entry for newer guilds.

    This is undoubtedly an overall benefit for the top tier trading guilds, but even then I see the potential for disruptive market behaviour which many may not like.

    Feels like a poorly thought out solution to the ghost guild problem...
    GM of the Unholy Legacy
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  • BansheeVT
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    This only benefits guilds/alliances with a lot of gold. Where's the benefit for the smaller guilds? We asked for a way to make backup guilds disappear and now they implemented a whole backup bid system?
    @BansheeVT - GM of 'Valinor Traders'.

    Valinor Trading Union:
    Valinor Traders: Vivec, 500k sales, <500k sales = 25k fee, <250k sales = kick
    Valinor Overflow: Vivec back row, 150k min sales OR 15k donation
    Valinor Merchants: Elden Root, 50k sales OR 10k donation
    Valinor Vendors: Wayrest, 25k sales OR 8k donation
    Stendarr's Merchantry: Alinor, 10k sales OR 5k donation
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