That's more or less it.

1. Trials take more coordination and more communication. They aren't designed for random players to queue up for them, unlike Group Dungeons.

2. Even in the case of group dungeons, we've seen that harder Group Dungeons have needed to be nerfed in some cases specifically because of low completion rates. We've got players asking for the DLC dungeons to be removed from the random queues. Trials are supposed to be challenging, and one of the ways they stay challenging is that they are NOT designed for whatever players the random queue throws together. They are designed for players who expressly join up to run that particular trial together, which means the level of challenge can be a lot higher.

3. Um...have you looked at the issues ZOS is having with Groupfinder lately? I mean, maybe its possible that ZOS' "We're totally revamping Groupfinder" will work better and maybe even include an Arena finder or a Trial finder that can handle 2 tanks, 2 healers, and 8 DDs...but I'll believe it when I see it.

So I figure its possible. Maybe not a good idea, but possible.

But as for whether ZOS can make it work properly? I am not optimistic.

Since I'm undecided, the against arguments I can think of:
- would the group finder even work, since our current dungeon finder has issues every now and then. How about the queue length? How long could it look for a group?
- What about the group composition, should the finder look for: 2 tanks, 2 healers, 8 DDs; or 2 tanks, 1 healer, 9 DDs; or 1 tank, 2 healers, 9 DDs etc.
- What about the fake tanks/fake healers that are present on the current dungeon finder, should the trial finder fight against fake roles?

Of course, if they were to implement such finder, I would use it. I often play off hours, so finding a group for a trial can take long and often I start to form a group and hop from zone to zone sending LFM messages.

The group finder is broken with 4 people matching. 12 peraon matching is not 3x it's orders of magnitude more complicated.

From a systems point of view the reason is because they can't.

12 person Trial queue huh...have you even tried the 4 person normal queue?
A 4 queue can go very south...just on normal. And you want to multiply that by three?

I kinda like it the way it is tbh. Trials via queue would be a bad idea. Write this down.

Alright, so yeah it makes sense if there’s issues with 4 man system then 12 is not doable. Thanks!

Looks like I’ll try and find a trial guild on Xbox NA.

My previous one ditched me right before the raid because they got nervous I’d never done cloudrest before. Despite it being a “training” run. That put a sour taste for trial guilds.

You can't have a static group composition for the group finder to manage.

Some trials need 1 tank, some need 2 and some run with 3.

You NEED to be able to communicate and coordinate in some trials and you can not do that with group text chat.

Most groups (guilds) schedule certain days of the week for runs. Some guilds have multiple runs per week and people sign up ahead of time so they don't have to waste time finding people.

If you can't meet the schedule that theguild has set, maybe you should find a guild that does runs in your time slot.

If a guild kicked you from a training run because you had never run that trial before.....lol..... That's a bad guild and you need to find another better one.

I dont see the Point honestly, Maybe for normal Trials only but if you Queue for a vet pug you will be very dissapointed nearly everytime, would probably cause a lot of Frustration if People Queue for Trials but most of the time cant finish them.

World of Warcraft LFR. It is a strong enough argument alone.

I think having a normal only trial queue would introduce tons of players to trials. This would be a good thing and get more people involved in the trials process.

I do not think a vet trial queue is needed and needs to remain a manual process.

How long will the queue require to locate the typical trial group of two tanks, two healers, and eight dps?

Will it be less than or greater than the remaining lifetime of the sun?

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Ash_In_My_Sujamma wrote: »

LfR (or in this case LfT) would be the nail in the coffin for any remaining raiding guild in the game (casual or not) and would kill one of the few reasons players still communicate in the zone chat. It will also be a defining factor for future trial design (if it's implemented) wich will result in more simplistic content so that it can be completed through lfr.
And don't forget about this: Trials are END GAME content in an MMORPG. LfR systems fundamentally betray those two concepts.

I would have to disagree with those assumptions, but I think we come to the same conclusion that a LFG for Trials is a bad idea. Even if the LFG (or LFT as you called it) were implemented, you are going to have raiding groups for Vet HM progressions. As far as communicating in Zone Chat, the only real place where I see Trials being advertised (Xbox NA) is in Craglorn, and other than that people are talkative in Zone Chat about anything from trading items to other random subjects. Also, the idea that if LFG were implemented for Trials it would result in easier content....but how come this isn't applicable to dungeons then? Every new DLC dungeon gets harder and harder, which is why you see an outcry on the forums about people not wanting DLC in their random dailies because they want easier content.

Unfortunately they are not assumptions but observations from other mmorpgs where a similar system was implemented.

Yes you are going to have raiding guilds but the number of those guilds will be minimal since there will be almost no reason for a guild like this to exist.

Yes Craglorn is the only place forming trial groups but that was not the case in the past. Before the lfg system in the game for dungeons was reworked there was a similar thing going on in the zone chat of all alliance capitals. Same thing will happen to craglorn as well.

It is applicable to dungeons. Dungeons are nerfed patch after patch after patch. If you compare most of present dungeons to what they used to be 1 or 2 years ago you will find that the difficulty overall has decreased significantly. Add in the equation the power creep players "suffer" from (and I use the word suffer because I believe that overpowered players leads to boring gameplay) you will find that completing a dungeon nowadays is something trivial for most groups.
People just complain in the forums for nerfs in content and dlc dungeons because they think that everything should be PuGed. Everything should be completed with the minimum effort. People don't ask for challenges because they care only for the reward. And of course when you are after the reward you will pursue the fastest and easiest way possible. You don't care about how to complete the content you just want to complete it and then go to the next one and the next one and so on. But that's not the concept of end game content. At least not from my perspective.

I wouldn't mind as long as there is no "random trial" option, provided everything works correctly. And there should be CP requirements like for DLC dungeons, but a bit more higher.
They could also manage to lock a trial behind the achievement to make sure you already completed it before queuing for it.

And obviously, the whole tool should advertise the trials as being challenging content, that requires a lot of teamwork.

Honestly I would probably use it for some farm runs. When being alone, or when we can't fill all the spots.