Aldmeri Dominion in general lol all 3 races are poor

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Littlebluelizard wrote: »

I am not sure why a lot of people voted Argonian.

1. Design: One of the best designs in racials IMO. The potion passive feels like a 5pc set, it changes how you build your character all around, and it is a really unique thing in PvP, with a Tri-Pot + Argonian passive you literally reset the fight to your favor, I don't think any racial comes close to have this much uniqueness.

2. Balance: I see a lot of people arguing about how Argonians stats are bad (mag, health and healing done), but fail to factor in the potion passive and immunity to diseased. You don't pick Argonian for healing or tanking, you pick it for the potion passive. Argonian is far from underpowered, might not be the best (especially PvE), but still pretty strong. They also have immunity to diseased status, which makes them immune to Major Defile from diseased procs(skills with disease damage but not the major defile buff, disease enchants, etc), this is very underappreciated IMO.

I think most of the votes comes from players that play only PvE, which in that perspective, yes, Argonians are definitly not close to BiS for either damage, healing and tanking (racials for tanking are pretty w/e though). But thing is, Argonian is more of a PvP race mroe than anything, just like Wood Elf have always been for example.

@Littlebluelizard I think you are overestimating the potion passive. Yes, in PvP, you are absolutely right and it's very good to have. But it's strange to have a race be only good at PvP and nothing else, don't you think?
Imperials get more sustain from Red Diamond than Argonians from their potion passive, Khajiit are not even that close behind. And Imperials also get 3% ult cost reduction, more health and more stamina than Argonians get magicka. The healing done passive from Argonians just doesn't make a difference to their sustain as it doesn't actually save the cost of 6 out of 100 heals, but due to overheal, there is no netsustain gain and no buff to their dps included unlike with Dunmer and Altmer, who both heal more than Argonians below 3333 spell damage (which healers are always under).
Nords get more ults too and thanks to being so tough for free, they have a lot more freedom with build options in terms of armor weight and sets. They can easily make medium armor tanking work.
The diseased status is only important in PvP too because nothing in PvE can apply it.
Their biggest strength is how forgiving they are with their potion passive, as you can use it as a life saver, which Imperials despite their higher sustain and healing can't. That's why I'd say they are a good race for beginner tanks, but that's not a real strength to be honest. Who wants to make a character and know that they aren't going to improve along with you?

I'd say Argonians need their poison resistance back, get their magicka buffed to 2000 and have their healing done buffed to 10% or completely changed to something else that fits them.

Potion passive is a "burst" sustain, unlike any other sustain passive, its the same reason Battle Roar is strong to reset fights. It's not meant to have as good sustain as Breton for example, but also have to take into account that restores all 3 resources which is really strong in PvP.

I don't think a race being specific for PvP is weird at all. Khajiit is a obselete race in PvE for example, since all other options do better than them, but they still have niche uses in PvP since crit damage is not that easy to get. Wood Elf is and always has been a PvP race only.

I don't think Argonian needs a total overhaul like the OP suggested, I don't think a buff to their health would be too bad, maybe +500 health would be nice. Poison resistance could make sense too, but it would either the resistance or the max stats otherwise it would be op again.

Spoken like a true PvP veteran.
This game has more to offer than just PvP. It is very weird that a race is shoehorned to just one type of gameplay and it contradicts ZOS own stated goals to have passives be more universal. This is what we wanted to get away from!

Khajiit are also not obsolete in PvE and haven't been either. They have been in the middle in Wrathstone and with the food changes from Elsweyr, they are now even more desireable thanks to their sustain. (Races with no sustain that were relying on Artaeum, Witchmother's, etc got an effective damage nerf when using sustain food or making their dps suffer from heavy attacking on blue food and tristat food, allowing the "weaker" races with better sustain to shine on blue and tristat food.

That Bosmer have been a PvP race only is a false assumption. Just because their old passives (high stam sustain, immunity to diseased status and poisoned status effect, stealth) were very useful in PvP, doesn't mean that they weren't good in PvE. While they might have been overshadowed by Redguards in the past (like all stam races), their sustain was already pretty damn good before. It should also be noted that the stealth radius (the stealth damage not as much) was beneficial in PvE too when skipping bosses in dungeons and when doing heists and sacraments.
Currently you do have a point though as their first passive, Hunter's Eye, is pretty much only useful in PvP, which is a shame. A permanent penetration bonus instead of a conditional one and a stealth radius instead of a detection radius would please both sides and leave Bosmer as a solid option for both PvE and PvP without changing much.

Back to the Argonians though, a total overhaul is definitely not what they need, you are right with that. I really like their potion passive and I am glad it doesn't provide the same sustain as a Breton has. If it did, then we'd have the same problems as we had before Wrathstone. But Argonians are still mathematically underpowered according to ZOS' own method of calculation. With the 2% healing done set bonus getting buffed, Argonians are balanced around a value that's 1.5 item set boni too little. This potential for buffs shouldn't be used to buff their potion passive again, as that would lead to problems in PvP. This also means that they will stay behind Imperials in terms of sustain on both resources for tanking. So that only leaves their resistances (poison resistance) and healing done passive.
If they need to get anything overhauled, then it would have to be the healing done passive. It is just worthless even at the corrected value, unless they add something that makes overheal desireable like Spell Power Cure does.

I held off on voting. For me, I am more concerned with Bosmer stealth than anything else; however, I fully agree with those who want Argonians to get their poison resistance in addition to their disease resistance/effect immunity. I think in an objective sense, Argonians are probably worse off, but I only have 1 Argonian and 4 Bosmer so I am 4 times as affected by the Bosmer nerf. I also feel that the stealth nerf cuts at the heart of Bosmer identity and lore. Argonians are bad off, sure, but Bosmer simply no longer exist.

I gave up, i just race changed from argo to breton, im sad