Mr_Walker wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

The vast majority of Cyrodiil regulars want faction locks; if they didn’t, ZOS would not have reintroduced them.

It's a shame they don't teach logic in schools any more.

There an echo chamber in here? You already said that, and I ignored it because it was inane. But since you felt the need to post it again: yes, the return of faction locks is something that MANY OF US HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR. ZOS is responding to POPULAR DEMAND.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Crystals aren't an issue. Over the course of a year, the 30 day campaign equates to 1.58 more items transmuted per character in the 30 day campaign over the 7 day campaign.

Players who have not performed basic arithmetic act as if the difference is huge.

it's far easier and far more fun for a pve player to go to the 30 day campagins for 30 mins på character to farm out crystals, than to have to play the 7 day campaign every week. As pve'ers pvp is our best option for crystals. As someone that raid with two guilds 6 times a week. I have to use at least 100 crystals a week so I really need them.

You can have you locked campagin and faction pride. I am just asking for people that don't want that, to opt out. Just like you can opt out of CP, opt out of doing vet content, and just buy the monster helmets.

If you're playing that much and have been getting that many Crystals up to this point how do you not already have everything transmuted you could possibly need? You're making it sound like you're a serious endgame PvE player, which would mean you probably follow the meta and run BIS for your role, and that doesn't change often enough (a meta lasts AT LEAST 3 months) to need a huge steady supply of Transmute crystals.

I play a support role which means I need a new set almost every week. We often try out new strats that requires totally different support sets to try and save a few seconds. This sometimes requires healers to wear weird sets that only come in medium or heavy etc. These sort os setups requires a ton of transmute gems

Again, I ask: what did you do before transmutation stones were a thing? Also, the average end game healer is not switching sets up every single week. You know that, right? I realize that doing so may be beneficial to you and your guild when pushing for score runs, but your own less than 1% personal decision to change your sets every week should not have an impact on PVP. I seem to vaguely recall that you’re in Hodor? No end game score-pushing trial guild should be taken into account when it comes to PVP.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Guys, having multiple 30 day campaigns just dilutes the playerbase. Why should we have lesser quality fights just because you want to farm your transmutation stones?

Faction locks have caused imbalance problems on XNA at AEST prime time. Why should your desires impact negatively on my game play?

Aurielle wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Guys, having multiple 30 day campaigns just dilutes the playerbase. Why should we have lesser quality fights just because you want to farm your transmutation stones? Cyrodiil is a war zone. Outside of those who prefer small scale, most of us ENJOY the chaos of large scale set piece battles. We’re at a good population balance right now, especially on PS4 NA. Another campaign would inevitably pull people away, especially if they don’t like the look of the map at any given point in time. It’s so selfish of you to ask the devs to open up a new campaign just so you can farm transmutation stones for your trial score runs (a teeny tiny minority of PVEers do trial score runs, BTW).

Out of curiosity, what did you guys do pre-transmutation stones?

Edit: Also, where are the requests for buffing PVE transmute stone gains? Why are you flooding the forums with requests to get rid of faction locks, or open up new faction lock-free campaigns? Ask for buffs to YOUR OWN PLAY STYLE, before you ask for changes to our play style.

Exactly and they call us rude and ignorant and say we aren't listening to them when we tell them it is finally in a good state lol. They tell us who cares we want transmutes......

Right? Shaking my head here at the level of entitlement on display in this thread...

Here’s an idea for those of you who go to Cyrodiil solely to grind transmutation stones: instead of asking the devs to arbitrarily dilute our population by creating a new 30 day campaign, ask them to give you a guaranteed 50 transmutation stones per month for completing a pledge from each pledge giver at least once per month. Vet or non-vet, I honestly don’t care. It would take about as much time to complete as leeching tier 1 level AP from your alliance, and it wouldn’t force you guys to venture into PVP content where you aren’t really contributing in any meaningful way to the campaign.

PvP in this game is indisputably dying, and you'd like even less people to play it. Marvellous suggestion....

Aurielle wrote: »

The vast majority of Cyrodiil regulars want faction locks; if they didn’t, ZOS would not have reintroduced them.

It's a shame they don't teach logic in schools any more.

I don’t know what to tell you. I’m a shift worker, so I play at all hours. On PS4 NA, at least, faction locks have vastly improved our experience at various countries’ prime times. I don’t want less people to play PVP; I just don’t see why we should be listening to the entitled complaints of people who literally spend an hour or less in Cyrodiil every month for their transmutation stones. These people aren’t contributing in any meaningful way to the campaign.

I'm a regular PvPer, and during the NA off peak hours, it's royally screwed it. Population imbalnce is baked in, and every campaign has a lopsided scoreboard. For all the numptys that blather on about "we all try to win a campaign", unless you're on the side with the pop. imbalance, you will not win a campaign. Not this one, and likely not for the foreseeable future.

Campaigns are won in off-peak, not when every faction is pop locked. That's just an inconsequential sideshow. One that is enormous fun, and that I enjoy immensely when I play it, but an inconsequential sideshow nonetheless.

Tonight was the worst I have seen XNA 30cp. At 1730 AEST, AD had 0 bars, DC had 1, and EP had a soft lock. Usually every faction has at least 2 bars at this time. That imbalance is baked in for the rest of this campaign. The faction that truly can't win, and on that campaign it's AD, they're just giving up, and that's unequivocally bad for PvP in this game. The map doesn't move because people have either stopped playing or can't swap to a character to get things happening.

We need better ideas, not ones that we might happen to like. Dumb ideas don't become less dumb because we they work for us.

AD isn’t winning on my server either. EP has a strong lead. People aren’t giving up, though, and the map is constantly in flux. Maybe we’re more resilient on PS4 NA? I dunno. Either way, I know that I’d rather fight an uphill battle with people who actually want to represent their faction than play alongside people who will happily switch sides to either support the losing team, or (and this is way more common) the winning team. I’d also rather fight an uphill battle and know that any gains we make will not be utterly negated in the final week by utter numpties who accepted gold and PSN cards to take the win away from AD.

therift wrote: »

After reading all the posts from PvE players on transmute crystal farming, I'm totally convinced that rewards of crystals are unbalanced between PvE content and PvP.

Yup, the PvE players sold me... on increasing the requirements in PvP. I'll talk to my PvP guilds about lobbying ZoS for a change.


1) Rewards of 50 transmute crystals absolutely must be moved to Tier 3 immediately

2) Values of transmute geodes should scale with Leaderboard rank like all of the other end of campaign rewards

3) 50 crystal geodes should go to top 25% of Leaderboard ranks. Lower ranks get smaller geodes

4) End the participation trophy of 50 crystals for 15 minutes of repairing keeps as @LiquidPony so stridently argued was most 'efficient'

5) If the big transmute payoff is to entice players into Cyrodiil, it should require players to spend far more than the 15 minutes stated by liquidpony. Maybe the big crystal payoff should require a certain number of days played in Cyrodiil like the daily login rewards.


I want players in PvP, not leeches. While we can't implement DPS dummy parse and gear checks for Cyrodiil like PvE guilds require for end-game content, even though PvP content is just as challenging, we PvP players can demand that everyone who takes up a population slot contribute meaningful time, skill, and effort to get the fat transmute loot.

Yep... going to start rounding up PvPers for this lobbying effort asap.

While I don’t necessarily agree with all your points, I’m very much in favour of SOME change taking place to limit the number of PVEers crying in the forums about faction locks because they feel entitled to our transmutation stones. Either make them easier to acquire in PVE to make it fairer for everyone, or make them harder to acquire in PVP to achieve the same goal.

therift wrote: »

After reading all the posts from PvE players on transmute crystal farming, I'm totally convinced that rewards of crystals are unbalanced between PvE content and PvP.

Yup, the PvE players sold me... on increasing the requirements in PvP. I'll talk to my PvP guilds about lobbying ZoS for a change.


1) Rewards of 50 transmute crystals absolutely must be moved to Tier 3 immediately

2) Values of transmute geodes should scale with Leaderboard rank like all of the other end of campaign rewards

3) 50 crystal geodes should go to top 25% of Leaderboard ranks. Lower ranks get smaller geodes

4) End the participation trophy of 50 crystals for 15 minutes of repairing keeps as @LiquidPony so stridently argued was most 'efficient'

5) If the big transmute payoff is to entice players into Cyrodiil, it should require players to spend far more than the 15 minutes stated by liquidpony. Maybe the big crystal payoff should require a certain number of days played in Cyrodiil like the daily login rewards.


I want players in PvP, not leeches. While we can't implement DPS dummy parse and gear checks for Cyrodiil like PvE guilds require for end-game content, even though PvP content is just as challenging, we PvP players can demand that everyone who takes up a population slot contribute meaningful time, skill, and effort to get the fat transmute loot.

Yep... going to start rounding up PvPers for this lobbying effort asap.

Well, I guarantee you, if the requirements for a geode become like that, most players will simply not care anymore and you won't see PvEers in Cyrodiil at all. Well, apart from quickly grinding Vigor, Caltrops, Warhorn.
Why even bother with PVP at all if you get like 4 pesky crystals? You already have PVE for that. My guildmates wouldn't set foot in Cyrodiil at all anymore. With 3-6 PVE raids a week, most of them simply don't have the time to go for PVP leaderboards as well, ON SEVERAL CHARACTERS, just to be able to transmute gear.
If you want Cyrodiil for PvPers only, that's okay and then it's the right way to go about it, but is that healthy for PVP? I have tried to PVP on the 30-day CP campaign around noon/early afternoon the last week because I had a few days off and could play during the day, and on PC EU, campaigns are absolutely deserted outside of primetime. Literally deserted. And during primetime, you don't even see queues anymore. AD on 30dayCP doesn't even have queues on weekend primetime anymore, only during midyear mayhem.. I remember times when I was position 90+ without an event. My faction doesn't even get the "lock"-symbol on primetime. xD If anything, PVP needs better rewards, no?

I am in the lucky position that all my characters are AD, because I like that background with the blooming trees and the beautiful river the most on the character screen and that's why I pick it on all chars. I can easily farm my 14 geodes a month even with faction lock, all my chars are the same faction, so you will not hear me cry about faction locks anyways.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

The vast majority of Cyrodiil regulars want faction locks; if they didn’t, ZOS would not have reintroduced them.

It's a shame they don't teach logic in schools any more.

Aurielle wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

itscompton wrote: »

Heelie wrote: »

therift wrote: »

Crystals aren't an issue. Over the course of a year, the 30 day campaign equates to 1.58 more items transmuted per character in the 30 day campaign over the 7 day campaign.

Players who have not performed basic arithmetic act as if the difference is huge.

it's far easier and far more fun for a pve player to go to the 30 day campagins for 30 mins på character to farm out crystals, than to have to play the 7 day campaign every week. As pve'ers pvp is our best option for crystals. As someone that raid with two guilds 6 times a week. I have to use at least 100 crystals a week so I really need them.

You can have you locked campagin and faction pride. I am just asking for people that don't want that, to opt out. Just like you can opt out of CP, opt out of doing vet content, and just buy the monster helmets.

If you're playing that much and have been getting that many Crystals up to this point how do you not already have everything transmuted you could possibly need? You're making it sound like you're a serious endgame PvE player, which would mean you probably follow the meta and run BIS for your role, and that doesn't change often enough (a meta lasts AT LEAST 3 months) to need a huge steady supply of Transmute crystals.

I play a support role which means I need a new set almost every week. We often try out new strats that requires totally different support sets to try and save a few seconds. This sometimes requires healers to wear weird sets that only come in medium or heavy etc. These sort os setups requires a ton of transmute gems

Again, I ask: what did you do before transmutation stones were a thing? Also, the average end game healer is not switching sets up every single week. You know that, right? I realize that doing so may be beneficial to you and your guild when pushing for score runs, but your own less than 1% personal decision to change your sets every week should not have an impact on PVP. I seem to vaguely recall that you’re in Hodor? No end game score-pushing trial guild should be taken into account when it comes to PVP.

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Guys, having multiple 30 day campaigns just dilutes the playerbase. Why should we have lesser quality fights just because you want to farm your transmutation stones?

Faction locks have caused imbalance problems on XNA at AEST prime time. Why should your desires impact negatively on my game play?

Aurielle wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Aurielle wrote: »

Guys, having multiple 30 day campaigns just dilutes the playerbase. Why should we have lesser quality fights just because you want to farm your transmutation stones? Cyrodiil is a war zone. Outside of those who prefer small scale, most of us ENJOY the chaos of large scale set piece battles. We’re at a good population balance right now, especially on PS4 NA. Another campaign would inevitably pull people away, especially if they don’t like the look of the map at any given point in time. It’s so selfish of you to ask the devs to open up a new campaign just so you can farm transmutation stones for your trial score runs (a teeny tiny minority of PVEers do trial score runs, BTW).

Out of curiosity, what did you guys do pre-transmutation stones?

Edit: Also, where are the requests for buffing PVE transmute stone gains? Why are you flooding the forums with requests to get rid of faction locks, or open up new faction lock-free campaigns? Ask for buffs to YOUR OWN PLAY STYLE, before you ask for changes to our play style.

Exactly and they call us rude and ignorant and say we aren't listening to them when we tell them it is finally in a good state lol. They tell us who cares we want transmutes......

Right? Shaking my head here at the level of entitlement on display in this thread...

Here’s an idea for those of you who go to Cyrodiil solely to grind transmutation stones: instead of asking the devs to arbitrarily dilute our population by creating a new 30 day campaign, ask them to give you a guaranteed 50 transmutation stones per month for completing a pledge from each pledge giver at least once per month. Vet or non-vet, I honestly don’t care. It would take about as much time to complete as leeching tier 1 level AP from your alliance, and it wouldn’t force you guys to venture into PVP content where you aren’t really contributing in any meaningful way to the campaign.

PvP in this game is indisputably dying, and you'd like even less people to play it. Marvellous suggestion....

Aurielle wrote: »

The vast majority of Cyrodiil regulars want faction locks; if they didn’t, ZOS would not have reintroduced them.

It's a shame they don't teach logic in schools any more.

I don’t know what to tell you. I’m a shift worker, so I play at all hours. On PS4 NA, at least, faction locks have vastly improved our experience at various countries’ prime times. I don’t want less people to play PVP; I just don’t see why we should be listening to the entitled complaints of people who literally spend an hour or less in Cyrodiil every month for their transmutation stones. These people aren’t contributing in any meaningful way to the campaign.

I'm a regular PvPer, and during the NA off peak hours, it's royally screwed it. Population imbalnce is baked in, and every campaign has a lopsided scoreboard. For all the numptys that blather on about "we all try to win a campaign", unless you're on the side with the pop. imbalance, you will not win a campaign. Not this one, and likely not for the foreseeable future.

Campaigns are won in off-peak, not when every faction is pop locked. That's just an inconsequential sideshow. One that is enormous fun, and that I enjoy immensely when I play it, but an inconsequential sideshow nonetheless.

Tonight was the worst I have seen XNA 30cp. At 1730 AEST, AD had 0 bars, DC had 1, and EP had a soft lock. Usually every faction has at least 2 bars at this time. That imbalance is baked in for the rest of this campaign. The faction that truly can't win, and on that campaign it's AD, they're just giving up, and that's unequivocally bad for PvP in this game. The map doesn't move because people have either stopped playing or can't swap to a character to get things happening.

We need better ideas, not ones that we might happen to like. Dumb ideas don't become less dumb because we they work for us.

I always found it funny just how much of an echo champer the forums are. Go to any large Discord server and everyone is saying how much they hate faction locking. This is not just a couple of people. I am on the discord for one of the larger AD non CP pvp guilds on PC EU. It used to be that about 90 people would be online playing eso at any time on that discord. Today I found that about 5 people are playin eso while the rest quit for other games. The last conversations on the discord were about faction lock. With the elsweyr release the guild died as the non CP 30 day campaign is dead and unplayable.

Palidon wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

There are two sides of the coin in this debate. Some players like the faction lock, others don't. Simple solution is to make two different 30 day campaigns. One faction locked the other non faction locked. If ZOS feels another campaign is a problem do away with the 7 day campaign that is never active and change it to 30 day non faction locked.

Makes the most sense and then everyone is happy. Choose the campaign you want to play in.

If there are 2 different 30 day CP campaigns that is s problem. I really don't get why people are having trouble understanding it even though it has been answered 30+ times in this thread already

Right now PvP is in a good place. People have 2 30 day options, CP and non CP. (Two totally different playstyles.) If we split it to be say 2 CP 30 days, and 1 non CP 30 day. People will join all three campaigns. This means you are diluting the population of these campaigns, once again creating unhealthy gameplay because none of them will be full. That means PvP turns into pvedoor. That is not what the PVP community wants. They want to arrive at the emporers last keep and run into an army trying to keep their buff. They don't want to arrive and have the emporer be there defending their last keep alone with NPCs.........

I have to disagree. First of all PvP is not in a good place. As you said there would be two 30 day cp campaigns and one non cp 30 day and folks would join all three. First of all if you are in the 30 faction locked campaign you are stuck in it with the alliance you selected and cannot go into any other campaign. That also locks out any of your other characters who are in other alliances. Now they could join the other two campaigns only. However, the 7 day cp campaign is dead so that only leaves the 30 day non cp campaign to join which not all players are interested in. I will bet you right now that if ZOS established a 30 day non faction locked cp campaign that would be the one full and the faction locked campaign dead as a door nail. It should be a players choice. All players should not have to suffer because some players did not like the non faction locked cp campaign and because of their complaints have now forced the only 30 day cp campaign to be faction locked. Again have two separate cp 30 day campaigns one locked the other un locked. Let the player choose.

I said this like 5 times in the thread. And the zerg squad keeps chanting it off as "unhealthy", What is unhealthy is a majority being forced to play a certain way by a vocal minority of players. Go to any large eso pvp related discord and you will see nothing but complaints about faction lock. Now most of these players don't speak english very well, or might have other reason for not being on the forums. It's a casual echo champer, and that is the main reason most people don't even bother going here. Truth is... If players had a choice, the vast majority would not play on a locked campaign. And that is what the zerg squad of faction lock supporters on this thread are afraid off. If ZOS actually made two campaigns they would have nothing but a few hundred players across all platforms to play against. Their campaign would be just a few extreme faction loyalist. Everyone with even just a slight game sence wants to play on an open campaign as this allows players to balance out the numbers. The very best players want to be outnumbered, while the pve geode farmers and more casual players wants to zerg surf. If a faction is not pop-locked while others are, a lot of players to play another faction for the day, instead of sitting in the que.

If you notice most players supporting it comes from the console servers. It has not been implemtented long enough to really take hold. But on both PC servers, by far the largest single platforms. PvP has died. Even in prime time noone wants to pvp as there are no mechanics balancing the numbers.

Palidon wrote: »

Kidgangster101 wrote: »

Palidon wrote: »

There are two sides of the coin in this debate. Some players like the faction lock, others don't. Simple solution is to make two different 30 day campaigns. One faction locked the other non faction locked. If ZOS feels another campaign is a problem do away with the 7 day campaign that is never active and change it to 30 day non faction locked.

Makes the most sense and then everyone is happy. Choose the campaign you want to play in.

If there are 2 different 30 day CP campaigns that is s problem. I really don't get why people are having trouble understanding it even though it has been answered 30+ times in this thread already

Right now PvP is in a good place. People have 2 30 day options, CP and non CP. (Two totally different playstyles.) If we split it to be say 2 CP 30 days, and 1 non CP 30 day. People will join all three campaigns. This means you are diluting the population of these campaigns, once again creating unhealthy gameplay because none of them will be full. That means PvP turns into pvedoor. That is not what the PVP community wants. They want to arrive at the emporers last keep and run into an army trying to keep their buff. They don't want to arrive and have the emporer be there defending their last keep alone with NPCs.........

I have to disagree. First of all PvP is not in a good place. As you said there would be two 30 day cp campaigns and one non cp 30 day and folks would join all three. First of all if you are in the 30 faction locked campaign you are stuck in it with the alliance you selected and cannot go into any other campaign. That also locks out any of your other characters who are in other alliances. Now they could join the other two campaigns only. However, the 7 day cp campaign is dead so that only leaves the 30 day non cp campaign to join which not all players are interested in. I will bet you right now that if ZOS established a 30 day non faction locked cp campaign that would be the one full and the faction locked campaign dead as a door nail. It should be a players choice. All players should not have to suffer because some players did not like the non faction locked cp campaign and because of their complaints have now forced the only 30 day cp campaign to be faction locked. Again have two separate cp 30 day campaigns one locked the other un locked. Let the player choose.

The only reason you would join another 30day campaign is for the monthly transmutes. Again you dilute the population I don't get what is so hard about that lol. It's like I say water is wet and you are going well yeah if I touch the water will I get wet?

Faction lock stops people from giving scrolls to their friends, stops spy's from seeing where we are trying to coordinate an attack in zone chat, stops people from farming ap by swapping keep captures over and over again, but let's not worry about any of that right? Because it affects your transmutes and instead of asking for buffs to pve transmutes you QQ in here

When we had more campaigns this is exactly what happened, we had a place were blue completely owned everything, we had one that red completely owned everything, we had one were yellow completely owned everything, then we had azure star (where everyone actually played). We don't need that to happen again it was not PvP it was pvdoor.

GO ASK FOR UNDAUNTED TO GIVE OUT A MONTHLY TRANSMUTE MAIL JUST LIKE PVP I DONT GET WHY YOU WANT TRANSMUTE CRYSTALS FROM PVP WJEN YOU DONT LIKE GOING INTO IT! Lololololol

The only people that want it to be unlocked are people who cheated or people who wanted transmutes. Cheaters are stuck now so GG, and above is your option for pve crystals it's not hard. You don't need to ruin our experience because you can't farm stuff for your pve in our PvP zone.

yodased wrote: »

I don't have a dog in This fight, but can i just say.

What the actual ***? You are transmitting whom jewelry between trash pulls? You porting to someone's house or something?

Wouldnt it just be easier to have multiple sets of the gear you want? Take the time to make the gold which you can use to buy what you want and then make a gear monkey to hold it.

I'm honestly flabbergasted anyone would care that much to be transmuting gear in the same run.

What did you hardcore raiders do for the 4 years transmute didnt exist? Not raid?

Really comes across as you want something specific to use a system waaaaaay outside its intended use and are now mad that isn't possible.

RIGHT? I mean, if you want to transmute that much gear, by all means, have at it. But if your guild is asking you to swap in multiple sets per run, and asking you to try different sets out every other week to shave off a few more seconds from the run... that’s on YOU guys. I would be willing to place a sizeable bet on my claim that less than 1% of the ESO playerbase does this. Don’t make your very individual problem our collective problem. Like, how dare you try to revert a change that was made for the better of PVP simply because you and your raid group can no longer transmute multiple gear sets every week. Ask for buffs to PVE transmutation stone gains before you ask for the removal of faction locks or for another campaign (which would have the effect of diluting the player base). Again, I ask: if completing a weekly trial guaranteed you 50 stones per month, would you be happy? Or would you STILL complain?

Gilvoth wrote: »

Faction lock is one of the best things zos have (re)added. No point in making characters in different alliances, pick a side/colour and stay with them.

Yeah if ZOS wouldn´t have encouraged players to do just that: making characters in different alliances to help population imbalances - i´d be all with you.

Now they´re sticking the finger ppl that played how they encouraged them to play the game in the first place.

I´m all right with playing only one alliance. Now ZOS needs to give that option to players that only have multi faction chars because ZOS wanted them to have.

REVERSE FACTION LOCKs
simplest solution
BUT WILL NOT HAPPEN
sadly...

mairwen85 wrote: »

How many transmutes can a pure pveer earn in 30 days?

Per character:

30 * 3 vet pledges ~180
4 * weekly trial ~20
30 * daily vma ~150
30 * daily vdsa ~150
4 * weekly rewards ~40
30 * daily random (vet) ~ 60

---

180+20+150+150+40+60=600

600/4 = 150

You need 100 per week? Done.

Also, any dlc vet dungeon end boss will drop a purple geode; grind however many extra you need.

So what's all this about being disadvantaged? No need to abuse pvp rewards for pve benefit.

---

Edit

I didn't even add a daily brp run.

If you had paid attention to what people have been saying, you would've noticed that nobody is saying that it's impossible to earn lots of crystals in PvE. It just takes a disproportionate amount of effort. Tell me, how much time would all that take? And how much time would it take earn 25K AP each on 12 characters? 🤔