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A better idea to the Guild Store Vs Gobal Auction house
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BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy
Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy
It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.
Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.
Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.
He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.
True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.
ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.
Also, that isn't how it really works. More people wouldn't really be making more gold. What would instead happen is the value of gold would decrease. If items cost 1K now and are adjusted up to 2K, you are making 1K more gold, but, your baseline is increasing across the board. So what used to cost 1K now costs 2K. You are in the same position you were in before, just with larger numbers.
And if you are making Zero gold and now are making 100+k gold then more players are making more gold.
Except that the 100K gold is now equal to zero gold.
Look at it this way. If you were getting paid 10$ per hour and a cheese burger cost 1$, you would be spending 10% of your wage on a cheese burger. And then you get a raise and are getting paid 20$ per hour. But, the cheeseburger now costs you 2$, you are still spending 10% of your wage on that burger. And, everything else you were spending your money on will also increase. You aren't really making more money since the baseline of the price of everything has gone up. 100K right now buys you X items. With an AH, 100K won't buy you those items anymore, you'll need 200K (or whatever arbitrary amount), meaning you are in the exact same boat as you are in now. Except the players at the to are making even more money because they are sitting on millions of gold already and can afford to invest in buying up the market.
You act like players don't already buy everything and re sell it just to make profit, you are just saying BECAUSE more Players would have gold to spend All prices would go up and to that I say GOOD, an economy can't grow with out more people making money.1 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy
Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy
It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.
Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.
Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.
He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.
True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.
ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.
Also, that isn't how it really works. More people wouldn't really be making more gold. What would instead happen is the value of gold would decrease. If items cost 1K now and are adjusted up to 2K, you are making 1K more gold, but, your baseline is increasing across the board. So what used to cost 1K now costs 2K. You are in the same position you were in before, just with larger numbers.
And if you are making Zero gold and now are making 100+k gold then more players are making more gold.
Except that the 100K gold is now equal to zero gold.
Look at it this way. If you were getting paid 10$ per hour and a cheese burger cost 1$, you would be spending 10% of your wage on a cheese burger. And then you get a raise and are getting paid 20$ per hour. But, the cheeseburger now costs you 2$, you are still spending 10% of your wage on that burger. And, everything else you were spending your money on will also increase. You aren't really making more money since the baseline of the price of everything has gone up. 100K right now buys you X items. With an AH, 100K won't buy you those items anymore, you'll need 200K (or whatever arbitrary amount), meaning you are in the exact same boat as you are in now. Except the players at the to are making even more money because they are sitting on millions of gold already and can afford to invest in buying up the market.
You act like players don't already buy everything and re sell it just to make profit, you are just saying BECAUSE more Players would have gold to spend All prices would go up and to that I say GOOD, an economy can't grow with out more people making money.
He knows they do. Taking some liberty what he is saying is it would be way worse, so much so as to be not worth it.1 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.1 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens1 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy
Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy
It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.
Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.
Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.
He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.
True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.
ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.
Also, that isn't how it really works. More people wouldn't really be making more gold. What would instead happen is the value of gold would decrease. If items cost 1K now and are adjusted up to 2K, you are making 1K more gold, but, your baseline is increasing across the board. So what used to cost 1K now costs 2K. You are in the same position you were in before, just with larger numbers.
And if you are making Zero gold and now are making 100+k gold then more players are making more gold.
You seem to be missing a key point. Gold only has a value as determined by supply and demand. The gold would be worth way less making millionaire paupers.
Yeah I got the "Key point" the Guild traders backers seem to want to keep as many as possible with out gold. I got more gold then I need to spend so I don't give a *** if the gold value drops.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me
I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
Have a good day. I have nothing I need to argue here as I have no issues with the guild trader and as I already stated it is not going anywhere anytime soon. Since no one will leave this game because of the trading system then Zos has nothing to worry about.Edited by idk on June 17, 2019 2:31PM0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio1 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
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barney2525✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I agree with this idea.
Having said that, IB4 the trade guild cartel comes in to shoot this idea down.
They corner markets and just don't want the general populism to take away from thier profits.
So basically if anyone disagrees with you they are the cartel. Nice logical fallicy you have there, before anyone even starts to disagree you have set the stage to dismiss them out of hand.
^
See...its already began.
Expect this person to post half a dozen more times to anyone who agrees with this idea.
Of course you can disagree. Just stating the obvious, predictable objection beforehand.
You will note I did not agree or disagree with you. You however immediatly went to discredting my post with no basis in fact or reasoning, only that I dared point out what will happen IF someone disagrees with you, which you went on to prove my point and added that my very posting again would somehow discredit me just becuase I posted 🤣
^
See..already up to 2 posts.
🤣
Except both their posts were valid points and said nothing about whether or not they agreed with you.
I think it is Your side that is losing credibility here.
You seem to be the one who does not have the open mind on the topic.
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BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.0 -
SecantSoul ShrivenBrianLovesLisa wrote: »You act like players don't already buy everything and re sell it just to make profit, you are just saying BECAUSE more Players would have gold to spend All prices would go up and to that I say GOOD, an economy can't grow with out more people making money.
Growth generates (moderate amounts of) inflation, not the other way around. If the prices go up, all it means is that the prices have gone up. It doesn't mean that the economy is growing.0 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Basically, people arguing against an AH solely on the basis that it would drive UP prices for desirable items are arguing that a free market system with more participants, fewer borders, less friction, better information—would somehow lead to LESS efficient pricing. Economists don’t agree on much, but I think the vast majority of economists from any school of thought would disagree with that premise.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth that I did not say. That is basically the premise of the post I just quote and is not worthy of a response, yet a wasted my time with it.
To once again foil your weak point you are attempting to make. There are trading guilds for all levels of trading players. If you are going for a top guild then yea, you need to be able to sell of expect to be kicked.
The same thing goes for raiding guilds where if you cannot play to their standards and do not improve many will kick you as well.
It is called good guild management where everyone pulls their weight. It sounds like you did not find the right guild for you. Keep trying.
Cheerio0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
How are the players not controlling the market?
I have one trading guild that has no minimum sales, no dues, no required raffle ticket purchases. No one tells me what prices I should be listing the items I sell for. I cleared out a lot of recipes I had no use for. The prices in MM or TTC were in the mid 90s to a little over 100 gold each. I listed them for 10 and 20 gold. When the first 30 sold, I listed more for the same price. No one yelled at me I was ruining the market. No one yelled at me for doing that. So I'm not so sure why you are so righteous about demanding an auction house where some players could easily manipulate the market.
It wasn't so much that Rawl'kha got "taken", it was that someone who apparently has your same mindset lied about how much it cost to take over all the traders, making it look like, as you allege with no proof, that guildmasters are scamming gold. One of the guildmasters who lost their spot in Rawl'kha posted screenshots of the amount that was bid for the trader they LOST, which was more gold than the "White Knight I Will Expose The Conspiracy" claimed he bid for *all* of the kiosks in the town. So *someone* was lying, but it wasn't the guildmasters.1 -
aaisoaho✭✭✭✭✭I agree with this idea.
Having said that, IB4 the trade guild cartel comes in to shoot this idea down.
They corner markets and just don't want the general populism to take away from thier profits.
You are gonna see the same 5 or 6 people in here upvoting every post downplaying this idea.
This is not a way to have a healthy conversation/debate about anything. You're basicly implying any opposing opinion is wrong/evil and any supporting opinion is good. And I think it is a strawman argument to think the opposing argumentators are opposing it because it takes away from their profit. Focus on the arguments, not the argumentators.
But back to the topic at hand: yes, global auction house would be easier for the buyers and sellers to use and find items. You could see all the items at once and buy the cheapest one. Now, a person looking to corner the markets could just buy every cheap item to make the said item artificially rarer by cutting the supply of said item. The more common items would just drop in price because everyone and their mother would be undercutting while trying to sell them, rendering those items worthless. So, in GAH the prices would go to extremities: rare items would cost a fortune and common items would be worth nothing.
Also, I think the servers just couldn't handle a GAH. On prime time on PC EU a single search on a guild trader can take several seconds. If there were a GAH, it would mean more items on sale, which means more items for the server to handle and which means a longer search. Yes, I'm aware other games have GAH, but for example WoW has multiple servers when ESO have one. (per platform and area) I rather have loading screens than long wait while searching items or listing items.
Gold sinks are a must to prevent inflation. Right now, the trader cycle sucks millions of gold per week out of circulation. Right now, sales do not provide enough gold to fund the trader, so we can deduce from it that the 3.5% is way too low to prevent inflation - which is why people are saying on GAH they need to suck upwards 20% of selling price into the void.
For me, guild traders are an enjoyable experience. Why? Because it is competitive and because it requires skills and understanding to master. Guild Traders are group effort at staying on the top and having a trader. If you're trying to maximise the profits, using MMs average is not the way to go. (since it is just an average, if the price trend is rising, average gives you a lower price and if the item is becoming cheaper the average shows you a higher price - which means the item won't sell) TTC is also not the way to go, because it tells you what price others are selling their items for - not what price the item sells for. If you find a good deal on TTC, it most probably is gone, because it does not update the prices right away.0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth that I did not say. That is basically the premise of the post I just quote and is not worthy of a response, yet a wasted my time with it.
To once again foil your weak point you are attempting to make. There are trading guilds for all levels of trading players. If you are going for a top guild then yea, you need to be able to sell of expect to be kicked.
The same thing goes for raiding guilds where if you cannot play to their standards and do not improve many will kick you as well.
It is called good guild management where everyone pulls their weight. It sounds like you did not find the right guild for you. Keep trying.
Cheerio
Clearly you did not read I never "put words in your mouth" nor did I claim to have any issues finding a guild, as I have said I got more gold then I need and would still prefer a global auction house to the very poor system in place.0 -
Storing the data requires basically zero computation power. What's draining it is MM pulling scans million times a minute.BrianLovesLisa wrote: »0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭jkerlandsenrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Storing the data requires basically zero computation power. What's draining it is MM pulling scans million times a minute.BrianLovesLisa wrote: »
well then looks like they need to keep that gone for good.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth that I did not say. That is basically the premise of the post I just quote and is not worthy of a response, yet a wasted my time with it.
To once again foil your weak point you are attempting to make. There are trading guilds for all levels of trading players. If you are going for a top guild then yea, you need to be able to sell of expect to be kicked.
The same thing goes for raiding guilds where if you cannot play to their standards and do not improve many will kick you as well.
It is called good guild management where everyone pulls their weight. It sounds like you did not find the right guild for you. Keep trying.
Cheerio
Clearly you did not read I never "put words in your mouth" nor did I claim to have any issues finding a guild, as I have said I got more gold then I need and would still prefer a global auction house to the very poor system in place.
They way you worded the first question, putting "got it" at the end is a syntax attempting to indicate that is what I had said.
Some day someone might come up with a worthy reason for Zos to change their mind. Until then we get to enjoy a system superior to a GAH by many measurements.
Cheerio0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth that I did not say. That is basically the premise of the post I just quote and is not worthy of a response, yet a wasted my time with it.
To once again foil your weak point you are attempting to make. There are trading guilds for all levels of trading players. If you are going for a top guild then yea, you need to be able to sell of expect to be kicked.
The same thing goes for raiding guilds where if you cannot play to their standards and do not improve many will kick you as well.
It is called good guild management where everyone pulls their weight. It sounds like you did not find the right guild for you. Keep trying.
Cheerio
Clearly you did not read I never "put words in your mouth" nor did I claim to have any issues finding a guild, as I have said I got more gold then I need and would still prefer a global auction house to the very poor system in place.
They way you worded the first question, putting "got it" at the end is a syntax attempting to indicate that is what I had said.
Some day someone might come up with a worthy reason for Zos to change their mind. Until then we get to enjoy a system superior to a GAH by many measurements.
Cheerio
Yup people are quitting, crying, and throwing fits over the system not working because their addons cant do it for them, Seems to be waaaaay better.0 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭12% is wayyyy too small. Trade guilds will stop existing, because no one will travel far and wide searching for things in guild stores, excluding the usual crag/deshaan/grathwood/etc spots. It will not take away from traders in guilds. It will ABOLISH IT. for it to actually work, i would say AH should be at least 20%, if not 30%. And then people would just zone chat.Edited by zvavi on June 17, 2019 3:14PM1 -
Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.Edited by Skwor on June 17, 2019 3:11PM0 -
I wouldn't mind if the MM scanning for sales got cut all together, I haven't used that feature in years anyway. But guild leaders not being able to easily grab donations is kind of rash. :-/BrianLovesLisa wrote: »jkerlandsenrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Storing the data requires basically zero computation power. What's draining it is MM pulling scans million times a minute.BrianLovesLisa wrote: »
well then looks like they need to keep that gone for good.0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth that I did not say. That is basically the premise of the post I just quote and is not worthy of a response, yet a wasted my time with it.
To once again foil your weak point you are attempting to make. There are trading guilds for all levels of trading players. If you are going for a top guild then yea, you need to be able to sell of expect to be kicked.
The same thing goes for raiding guilds where if you cannot play to their standards and do not improve many will kick you as well.
It is called good guild management where everyone pulls their weight. It sounds like you did not find the right guild for you. Keep trying.
Cheerio
Clearly you did not read I never "put words in your mouth" nor did I claim to have any issues finding a guild, as I have said I got more gold then I need and would still prefer a global auction house to the very poor system in place.
They way you worded the first question, putting "got it" at the end is a syntax attempting to indicate that is what I had said.
Some day someone might come up with a worthy reason for Zos to change their mind. Until then we get to enjoy a system superior to a GAH by many measurements.
Cheerio
Yup people are quitting, crying, and throwing fits over the system not working because their addons cant do it for them, Seems to be waaaaay better.
Doubtful anyone is actually quitting the game over it or the guild trader system. If they claim to be they were likely one foot out the door. Just being realistic.
You are evidence of that fact as you still play the game even though you are passionately against the guild trader system.
Cheerio1 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭jkerlandsenrwb17_ESO wrote: »
I wouldn't mind if the MM scanning for sales got cut all together, I haven't used that feature in years anyway. But guild leaders not being able to easily grab donations is kind of rash. :-/BrianLovesLisa wrote: »jkerlandsenrwb17_ESO wrote: »
Storing the data requires basically zero computation power. What's draining it is MM pulling scans million times a minute.BrianLovesLisa wrote: »
well then looks like they need to keep that gone for good.
how is that rash? console gms don't use addons and they manage, seems like they need to stop having it so easy if they claim the guild trader system is far better.
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Skwor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.
None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
I agree. There are a lot of people talking with supposed certainty about how people would corner the market, but that is not how auction houses work. Look to some real life auction houses as an example. Buying up every item—especially when there are newly created copies of that item being posted all the time—in the hope of relisting at a higher price, is a very dangerous game and likely to lead to bankruptcy. If it is not the true market price, your inventory will just grow and grow. So many people who are against an auction house bring out this boogeyman story based purely on speculation and try to claim it as fact. Better to argue other pros/cons of the trader vs AH system.
Several rare real life commodities have been monoplolized successfully. It is easier to do in a game with an AH. So yes it happens
Yes, and those rare instances kind of prove my point. It is very difficult and risky to do this, and even when successful is usually on successful for a very short period of time. And the conditions under which it is successful—VERY limited or NO new supply from other sources coming into the market—would never apply in ESO if anyone fishing up, say, perfect roe, could list it themselves on the AH. Anyone doing writs can list their own gold mats. So how do you monopolize supply? You cannot.
You're right no one has enough gold to Buy ALL gold mats and re sale them before more go up.
With A GAH I could easily buy all the Potents and Perfect Roe as currently listed with plenty of capital on hand to manage in the NA PC game via TTC before more got posted
And given the farming rate of them I reasonably believe a GAH would allow me to significantly drive up prices for a serious profit.
The only real question is who else besides me would get to it first.
try doing that for Tempering Alloy, Rosin or Wax, and I know for a fact, you could not buy all of it and re sell it before more go up.
I could not but I know of some with the capital who could. Also working quite literally as a feared cartel many here invoke they could easily buy it out in time.
The biggest laugh in this to me is no one considering bots. ZEN does lttle to discourage farm bots. Market bots are way easier and work quicker. GAH is a perfect breeding ground for market bot resales.
So yes it can be done quite easily.Edited by Skwor on June 17, 2019 3:19PM0 -
BrianLovesLisa✭✭✭✭✭BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »BrianLovesLisa wrote: »Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.
So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
Thanks for the laugh though. However, you have said nothing of value to get Zos to change their mind. Seems more like grasping at straws.
You have mentioned a good point that Zos does need to fix, besides the guild history. But just because there is a loophole does not mean the whole system needs to be replaced. If that was the case most games would have tossed the GAH long ago.
And if the guild trader system was so much better more games would let the players control the market
You seem to have that backwards as it is widely known a central system is so much easier to exploit. But good try. Cheerio
So by making guild traders ran by players who can kick someone because they didn't sell enough or they didn't like that they don't agree with them they are not controlling the market got it? happens all the time but you know Players are not controlling the market, they are not map hopping buying everything and re selling it for more and they are not able to do what they can with a global auction house.
Now you are just putting words into my mouth that I did not say. That is basically the premise of the post I just quote and is not worthy of a response, yet a wasted my time with it.
To once again foil your weak point you are attempting to make. There are trading guilds for all levels of trading players. If you are going for a top guild then yea, you need to be able to sell of expect to be kicked.
The same thing goes for raiding guilds where if you cannot play to their standards and do not improve many will kick you as well.
It is called good guild management where everyone pulls their weight. It sounds like you did not find the right guild for you. Keep trying.
Cheerio
Clearly you did not read I never "put words in your mouth" nor did I claim to have any issues finding a guild, as I have said I got more gold then I need and would still prefer a global auction house to the very poor system in place.
They way you worded the first question, putting "got it" at the end is a syntax attempting to indicate that is what I had said.
Some day someone might come up with a worthy reason for Zos to change their mind. Until then we get to enjoy a system superior to a GAH by many measurements.
Cheerio
Yup people are quitting, crying, and throwing fits over the system not working because their addons cant do it for them, Seems to be waaaaay better.
Doubtful anyone is actually quitting the game over it or the guild trader system. If they claim to be they were likely one foot out the door. Just being realistic.
You are evidence of that fact as you still play the game even though you are passionately against the guild trader system.
Cheerio
I don't play it for the trader system 0