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A better idea to the Guild Store Vs Gobal Auction house

  • Uryel
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    You will note I did not agree or disagree with you.

    From another thread :
    Skwor wrote: »
    Most of us know how the current Guild Traders is a better system with less flaws than a global AH

    Just saying.

    Wildly misquoted, cut up quotes with different intents. This is almost the same as cutting out letters I typed to create a new sentence and claiming I said the sentence.

    At least keep the whole quote along with the intent. This first quote, while in an auction house thread, had nothing to say about the auction house issue. It was specific to how a poster wrote a logical fallacy.

    Well, you're ALSO the person who suggests to ban people who request global auction house. I don't suppose your intent needs any more clarification, does it ?
  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    Uryel wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Uryel wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    You will note I did not agree or disagree with you.

    From another thread :
    Skwor wrote: »
    Most of us know how the current Guild Traders is a better system with less flaws than a global AH

    Just saying.

    Wildly misquoted, cut up quotes with different intents. This is almost the same as cutting out letters I typed to create a new sentence and claiming I said the sentence.

    At least keep the whole quote along with the intent. This first quote, while in an auction house thread, had nothing to say about the auction house issue. It was specific to how a poster wrote a logical fallacy.

    Well, you're ALSO the person who suggests to ban people who request global auction house. I don't suppose your intent needs any more clarification, does it ?

    Nope, but to be honest my post was more in the vein of "A Modest Proposal." In as much that I wished to show the continued repeating of such posts as unwarrented and even trollish through the debate of my hyerbole.
    Edited by Skwor on June 17, 2019 1:20PM
  • Heelie
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    Honestly Craglorn pretty much has the purpose of a global action house, at least on PC EU. You can go there and buy all the crafting stuff you will ever need. And the basic meta sets.
    Most OwOrated healer of all time
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    Put an "Global Guild Store Assistant in Crown Store" - Shopkeeper Stibbons*

    Stibbons can see all items in all current traders (guilds without traders of course will not be seen). This is a non-needed assistant for the people that cry pay-to-win, as they can still travel to all of the Guild Traders if they do not purchase him.

    Purchasing and selling from Stibbons has a minor increase tax %.

    Having this in your Guild Hall would be great, IMO.




    .
    Edited by Kalik_Gold on June 17, 2019 3:35PM
    Main Character:
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP Pure-class:
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: Subclassed or Specialty
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer (Tank)
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer (Healer)
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist /Sorcerer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden (Ice-Theme)

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Redguard** Dragonknight (Raid Damage) --- Name change needed

    PvE: Specialty
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Sorcerer (Dungeon Damage)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (Arenas)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin*** Arcanist --- Race change needed
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Lycan Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used:
    *Breton
    **Imperial
    ***Argonian




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant
  • luen79rwb17_ESO
    luen79rwb17_ESO
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    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy
    PC/DC/NAserver

    V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk
  • Jayman1000
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    nvm
    Edited by Jayman1000 on June 17, 2019 1:30PM
  • BrianLovesLisa
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    Jayman1000 wrote: »
    How do you know 12% would be enough? According to my calculations we would need at least 20% tax rate to make up for the lost gold sink from trader bids.

    I never said 12% would be enough, I did say that adding a Global auction house with a 12% tax AND keeping the current trader system would add to the gold sink. the current gold sink is a 1% listing fee 3.5% void 3.5% guild bank with what ever a guild can manage to scrap together for bids, and thanks to a recent event where all rawl traders got their spot hit, we know at least one was bidding around 30mil a week, Now add that 12 % to the 8% and it evens out to 20% gold sink in the game not including npc bought items ( does anyone do this anyways ). Traders would be traders, non serious sellers would sell, everyone wins.
  • RebornV3x
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    My way to bridge the gap between global auction house and guild traders is a community board every town having a single board and you can sell up to 5 items you don't have to be in a player guild to sell items and a global auction house can't work nearly 5 years in without absolutely destroying the in game economy.
    Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
    I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.
  • BrianLovesLisa
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    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy
  • Skwor
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    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.
  • BrianLovesLisa
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.
  • idk
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    Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.

    So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.
  • RebornV3x
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    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    Common items would be cheaper yes but stuff like Tempering Alloy, Perfect Roe, Rosin etc would probably skyrocket.
    Xbox One - NA GT: RebornV3x
    I also play on PC from time to time but I just wanna be left alone on there so sorry.
  • BrianLovesLisa
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    idk wrote: »
    Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.

    So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.

    Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.
  • BrianLovesLisa
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    RebornV3x wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    Common items would be cheaper yes but stuff like Tempering Alloy, Perfect Roe, Rosin etc would probably skyrocket.

    How is Tempering alloy roe and Rosin not common?
  • Skwor
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    No, I am saying in ESOs competitive market an AH would make it much more likely to employ market manipulation allowing real monopolies to occur.

    What I predicted is the outcome of such unchecked monopolies.
  • jaws343
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.
  • BrianLovesLisa
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    Skwor wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    No, I am saying in ESOs competitive market an AH would make it much more likely to employ market manipulation allowing real monopolies to occur.

    What I predicted is the outcome of such unchecked monopolies.

    You mean the market that already has monopolies in it? how many guild leaders, item flippers and resellers are already buying everything for a few hours a day? Yeah that would make it faster "IF there was only the Global Auction House" BUT im suggesting we have both.
  • BrianLovesLisa
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.

    True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.

    ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.
    Edited by BrianLovesLisa on June 17, 2019 1:59PM
  • jaws343
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    As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.

    None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.
  • jaws343
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.

    True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.

    ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.

    Spinners is just an example. You can also just farm anything yourself. That really isn't the point though.

    And doing both would make it worse actually. Players would list on the AH and rather than relisting those items in the AH, players would just relist them in their guild stores. Either way, they would still corner the market on items, only it would be much easier.

    AH is a terrible idea and would only ruin the marketplace of this game. And why? Because some players don't want to join a trade guild?

    Someone earlier in this thread posted that there are limited numbers of guild spots and that not all players can participate. I am in trade guilds that are only at like 300 members and they still get a spot every single week. So our current system isn't even at max capacity yet.
  • BrianLovesLisa
    BrianLovesLisa
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    As it is right now, not having an auction house is very healthy for trading. Locations are where you see price differentiation. And traders keep each other in check. If Guild Store 1 is charging 1000 for an item, Guild Store 2 in the same location either has to charge the same or less in order to sell the item. And in Guild Store 3, in another location, that same item could be listed for less (or more) depending on the traffic of the store. But the market normalizes the prices in a way that prevents them from getting out of control. A player can see a Spinners ring listed for 50K in one trader and move to the next and see one listed at 30K. Then in the next trader they find one for 40, and 30, and 30. They can make an informed decision. That since the majority of items are in the 30-40K range, the 50K item is overpriced. And then the player who listed it too high will not sell the item, and that player will have to adjust his pricing to match the market in order to sell.

    None of that could happen in an AH. At all. Because player Y would just buy everything and anything that is priced below what he intends price his items for. And then you only have the option to buy that 50K ring. And then as that normalizes, players will see that 50K is the new price for the jewelry and new listings will adjust to that. And then, player Y will buy everything at 50K and relist it at 60 or 70K and corner the market again, eventually driving the price up to an unreasonable amount.

    Yeah, you can make up ways of people doing it all you want. but when it comes down to limited amount of sales slots, he would have more rings then he could sale and before he could sale, more would be under cutting him.
  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.

    True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.

    ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.

    Also, that isn't how it really works. More people wouldn't really be making more gold. What would instead happen is the value of gold would decrease. If items cost 1K now and are adjusted up to 2K, you are making 1K more gold, but, your baseline is increasing across the board. So what used to cost 1K now costs 2K. You are in the same position you were in before, just with larger numbers.
  • BrianLovesLisa
    BrianLovesLisa
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.

    True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.

    ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.

    Spinners is just an example. You can also just farm anything yourself. That really isn't the point though.

    And doing both would make it worse actually. Players would list on the AH and rather than relisting those items in the AH, players would just relist them in their guild stores. Either way, they would still corner the market on items, only it would be much easier.

    AH is a terrible idea and would only ruin the marketplace of this game. And why? Because some players don't want to join a trade guild?

    Someone earlier in this thread posted that there are limited numbers of guild spots and that not all players can participate. I am in trade guilds that are only at like 300 members and they still get a spot every single week. So our current system isn't even at max capacity yet.

    Yeah I posted that earlier and to the point of Re listing in their trade guild, that would be more gold into the void. Thanks for making my point stronger.
  • BrianLovesLisa
    BrianLovesLisa
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.

    True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.

    ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.

    Also, that isn't how it really works. More people wouldn't really be making more gold. What would instead happen is the value of gold would decrease. If items cost 1K now and are adjusted up to 2K, you are making 1K more gold, but, your baseline is increasing across the board. So what used to cost 1K now costs 2K. You are in the same position you were in before, just with larger numbers.

    And if you are making Zero gold and now are making 100+k gold then more players are making more gold.
  • idk
    idk
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    idk wrote: »
    Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.

    So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.

    Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.

    Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    How limited do you think the trader market is?

    On PC/NA, I see plenty of trading guild advertisements (with the exception of the current guild history fiasco), and every trading guild I've been in was constantly recruiting new members. So its not like players who actually try to trade through the system are being shut out. (Players refusing to participate in the system as designed are largely shut out...by their own choice.)

    Moreover, every time I went looking for a guild that met my trading needs, I found one within a couple days - and that was before the guildfinder and I was being selective about participation requirements.

    Now, others may have different experiences.

    But from my perspective, I had things to sell and was willing to participate in trading guilds, and it was reasonably easy to join good trading Guilds that met my needs.
  • jaws343
    jaws343
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.

    True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.

    ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.

    Also, that isn't how it really works. More people wouldn't really be making more gold. What would instead happen is the value of gold would decrease. If items cost 1K now and are adjusted up to 2K, you are making 1K more gold, but, your baseline is increasing across the board. So what used to cost 1K now costs 2K. You are in the same position you were in before, just with larger numbers.

    And if you are making Zero gold and now are making 100+k gold then more players are making more gold.

    Except that the 100K gold is now equal to zero gold.

    Look at it this way. If you were getting paid 10$ per hour and a cheese burger cost 1$, you would be spending 10% of your wage on a cheese burger. And then you get a raise and are getting paid 20$ per hour. But, the cheeseburger now costs you 2$, you are still spending 10% of your wage on that burger. And, everything else you were spending your money on will also increase. You aren't really making more money since the baseline of the price of everything has gone up. 100K right now buys you X items. With an AH, 100K won't buy you those items anymore, you'll need 200K (or whatever arbitrary amount), meaning you are in the exact same boat as you are in now. Except the players at the to are making even more money because they are sitting on millions of gold already and can afford to invest in buying up the market.
  • BrianLovesLisa
    BrianLovesLisa
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    idk wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Zos will never accept OPs suggestion as the premise they based the trading system on would be lost. If you paid attention and listened to what Zos said were their reasons for the guild based trading it would be clear.

    So no, a central kiosk will not happen in this game and OP's idea is not going to hold water.

    Current system is broken in a game where it limits the ability to trade to a small percent of the player base.

    Considering Zos can see the volume of trades and breadth of the economy in game a statement like this does not hold water and does not really say anything either. Not that it matters. This is the system Zos wanted, as I already stated, and they seem to be pleased with it. So it will take something real for them to not only change their mind but spend the large sum of money to design a new game system. That is the reality of things.

    they wanted a system, that encourages players to whine when addons don't work? a system that encourages back stabbing, spying, stealing from other guilds and screwing over thousands of people every week? Yup seems like it since the group finder is working fine for me :) I have no lag at any time that people seem to cry about? How about the Ghost guilds that seems to be a normal thing and accepted by ZOS or when a whole town gets taken the forums seem to throw a fit over how the person is a terrible person for doing that and screwed so many people over? Plenty of things in this game that ZOS "wanted" does not make them a system that is Right or works well.
  • Skwor
    Skwor
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    jaws343 wrote: »
    jaws343 wrote: »
    Skwor wrote: »
    Global AH would be the worst thing to happen to ESO economy

    Yeah nothing like lowering the price of items, giving more people the ability to sell to really RUIN the economy

    It will not lower prices like you think. The reasonably priced items now would end up less than vendor trash resulting in the average trader not being able to sell accessable items in the market as they will be worth less than selling to a vendor.

    Anything of real value will raise in price significantly due to an easier ability to monopolize the market. Anything actually rare will be priced way beyond what any but a few could ever afford or require months of gold farming to purchase by the average player.

    Oh so you are saying the only fun way to trade is by limiting the amount of players who can trade so all items are stuck where they are.

    He is right though. If you wanted to corner the market on an item now you have to go through a lot of effort and you will only be able to do it for a very limited amount of time. If an AH existed, and I wanted to corner the market on Spinners Jewelry, I could buy every single piece of purple jewelry, as it was listed, relist is at a huge markup. Right now, purple spinners on XBOX NA goes for 30-40K. A single player with an AH could corner the market and sell them for 60k+ and players would have no other options but to buy them at that price because that same player could make sure that very few that get listed lower are in the market long enough for others to purchase.

    True but im guessing people here can't read as I said just do both >.> still give the whiny guilds their trader and give the people who don't want to deal with the guild trader *** a way to sale with out spamming chat.

    ALSO there is always another option called FARM IT YOURSELF, not like spinners is rare and not like people can just choose not to buy a up price. If prices go up so? more people would make more gold and more gold would go to the gold sink.

    Also, that isn't how it really works. More people wouldn't really be making more gold. What would instead happen is the value of gold would decrease. If items cost 1K now and are adjusted up to 2K, you are making 1K more gold, but, your baseline is increasing across the board. So what used to cost 1K now costs 2K. You are in the same position you were in before, just with larger numbers.

    And if you are making Zero gold and now are making 100+k gold then more players are making more gold.

    You seem to be missing a key point. Gold only has a value as determined by supply and demand. The gold would be worth way less making millionaire paupers.
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